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  1. #1
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    Question about Helius ST size

    Dear All,

    It is so that I em going to order a Helius ST frame from Nicolai in a near soon as a complement to my Helius FR. This bike should be used for pure FR and some DH races. Why a Helius ST when I have a Helius FR? This is of the reason that I em very satisfied with my Helius FR but it feel a liltle bit too large for freeride application.

    My heigh is 185 cm (6' 1") and my Helius FR 2006 is in size L and this size is perfectly for AM-rides. But for freeride it feels a litle bit too large as I mentoined before so I wonder what you guys think about size M for the Helius ST? I need some shorter top tube and a higher front part. This frame should be equiped with MZ 888, MZ ROCCO and probably with a Rohloff.

    Thanks and all the best.

    Miche

  2. #2
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    I've just replaced my Medium FR with a Medium ST and the sizing seems spot on for me at 6' 0"

    The new ST certainly feels shorted and higher; but will be just right for DH / FR

  3. #3
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    Hi Miche, I am collecting my Helius FR next week in XL and am hoping to build it up to about 35lb. I am just under 6ft 4 and decided on the XL for an all round bike. The frame size seemed a little large intially, but it's only 10mm longer in the HT than my Yeti 575 size large. So I am sure I will be stoked with the slightly larger proportions of the XL.

    Although my FR is not even built yet, I am also contamplating an ST project for late next year. I have the same dilemna. Should I go for a L or an XL? I know Whafe is about my height and he chose the FR in L. I am sure he will give his impressions on here soon.

    If you know the geometry you want, then why not have Niclolai build you a custom frame?

  4. #4
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    I'm 186cm and the Helius ST in size M feels perfect. L would be too large for my taste.

  5. #5
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    I am just under 6'4" and feel that my L FR is correct on the top tube but seat tube is too long. Kinda wish I had got custom geometry and should be something you should consider.

  6. #6
    Err
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    I'm 5'8" and rode a Med Helius-ST for the past two seasons. I had no problem with the top tube length, but the seat tube was a little long for my taste. If I ordered another one, I'd opt for as short of a seat tube as I could get away with while still maintaining the ability to get full leg extension with the seat post raised. I'd go with the size Med top-tube again.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Err
    I'm 5'8" and rode a Med Helius-ST for the past two seasons. I had no problem with the top tube length, but the seat tube was a little long for my taste. If I ordered another one, I'd opt for as short of a seat tube as I could get away with while still maintaining the ability to get full leg extension with the seat post raised. I'd go with the size Med top-tube again.
    Err, any news on the PM I sent you a while ago?

    I've been looking at this frame and would order a large TT with a small seat tube. Now is it true what I read about the design of these frames that the stand-over stays the same on all models and you really only get a shorter seat tube? I can understand the design of the suspension would have to be altered to get lower stand-over. What if I wanted to order a Helius ST that had a 14 inch BB with a 565mm axel to crown fork. (likely a Totem or 66)
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  8. #8
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    Yo Cliffy,
    You could get pretty damn close to a 14" BB with the UFO. Use some big tires, and jack the shock mounts all the way back. I bet you would be around 13.8-14. The thing rides soo sweet I have only ever found one time that I wanted more BB height and even then I stayed out of trouble

    You may even want to ask for a longer TT than the large for a UFO. I am not sure what you like but If I were to get anouther UFO I would want a large for myself. I could see you needing an XL but with a shorter seat tube. Daaaaamn that would be hot!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by boone
    Yo Cliffy,
    You could get pretty damn close to a 14" BB with the UFO. Use some big tires, and jack the shock mounts all the way back. I bet you would be around 13.8-14. The thing rides soo sweet I have only ever found one time that I wanted more BB height and even then I stayed out of trouble

    You may even want to ask for a longer TT than the large for a UFO. I am not sure what you like but If I were to get anouther UFO I would want a large for myself. I could see you needing an XL but with a shorter seat tube. Daaaaamn that would be hot!
    Yeah, I've thought about it. That's my problem. I think too much.

    The design of the UFO ST does allow more flexability for custom geometry, but I'm thinking 4-bar and not SP... Mostly because of the braking benefits of the Horst link. I've also applied my ideas to the Helius FR, but I think my 66 may be too much fork, and it's a bit too enduro for the bike I'm envisioning. Also, I think the stand over would be a little taller than I'd like.

    Here's my dream bike in a nutshell: 180mm travel, 14inch BB, 66 h-angle 45.5 inch WB, 16.5-17 inch C-stays and seat tube size... 28 inch stand-over. I'm used to about a 600mm ETT.

    I'm ready to start my own bike company at this point. The Bottlerocket is close to all these numbers, but I want another inch of travel, better braking performance, and a better constructed frame. (Non-Tai) IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Cliffy
    Yeah, I've thought about it. That's my problem. I think too much.

    The design of the UFO ST does allow more flexability for custom geometry, but I'm thinking 4-bar and not SP... Mostly because of the braking benefits of the Horst link. I've also applied my ideas to the Helius FR, but I think my 66 may be too much fork, and it's a bit too enduro for the bike I'm envisioning. Also, I think the stand over would be a little taller than I'd like.

    Here's my dream bike in a nutshell: 180mm travel, 14inch BB, 66 h-angle 45.5 inch WB, 16.5-17 inch C-stays and seat tube size... 28 inch stand-over. I'm used to about a 600mm ETT.

    I'm ready to start my own bike company at this point. The Bottlerocket is close to all these numbers, but I want another inch of travel, better braking performance, and a better constructed frame. (Non-Tai) IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?
    I don't think that is too much to ask at all!
    Couple options: Knolly delerium T with a bigger shock, Canfield Lucky (you prolly already thought about these). OR
    Talk to your boys down there that build frames and ask them to make a FS frame for you

    I dunno...I think half the fun is thinking about all these little bits. Only thing I cannot comment on is the SP vs HL. I think they each have their benfits, I believe it is personal preference and what type of susp you like for diff riding conditions you have.

  11. #11
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    Hi All,

    And thanks for the all answears. As I can see from your heigh a Medium would match me best. Some of you point out that the Seat Tube (ST) is too tall for you guys, it is same for my Helius FR there I can feel that the ST is too tall. So, when I place an order on a Helius ST frame I will use the option for approximately 5 cm (2") shorter ST.

    lornibear: I know your dilemma. I my case I would have a litle bit smaller frame for Freeride, Huck and Downhill. And reason for that is to have a better control over the bike in steep descending sections and in air. To AM and enduro riding my Helius FR in size L is perfect, both in climbing sections and in more friendly descending sections (it also works in steep descending sections with a lower speed).

    For a being heigh from 5' 8" = 173 cm to 6' 1" = 186 cm a M size is recommended for a Helius ST as I can see above.

    I found picture over the Helius ST frame at Nicolai-DSK site and here below I add a picure of my Helius FR in the background. Here I can see that the features what I em looking for would be fulfiled. But can ony one tell what size the Helius ST is in? Its looks lika a M but im not sure. My Helius FR is in size L.

    From the picture below I can also see that the Seat Tube is too tall and here I should opt for a smaller one. This experience is based from my Helius FR where could be approximately 5 cm (~2") shorter.

    Thanks and all the best, Miche
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Miche72; 01-02-2008 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Adding a picure, some new questions and some conclusions

  12. #12
    Err
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Cliffy
    Err, any news on the PM I sent you a while ago?

    I've been looking at this frame and would order a large TT with a small seat tube. Now is it true what I read about the design of these frames that the stand-over stays the same on all models and you really only get a shorter seat tube? I can understand the design of the suspension would have to be altered to get lower stand-over. What if I wanted to order a Helius ST that had a 14 inch BB with a 565mm axel to crown fork. (likely a Totem or 66)
    No momentum at this time on the Helius-SS. I'm riding the 6.6 SS for the time being as it had the exact geometry I wanted, just VPP instead of Horst-Link. So far, I'm in love. I think a Nicolai frame with the geo of the 6.6 SS or a UFO-ST with a Horst-Link rear would be the ultimate for me.

    I'd imagine you could have a Helius-ST at or very close to those numbers. The stocker should come in around 14.15" with a Totem. If you ran a CCDB you could run a bit of extra sag to drop your BB a bit more.

  13. #13
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    I am ever so slightly over 6'3".... I am stoked I went for the Large Helius FR, I have built this bike to be aggresive trail and AM, to Light FR dare I say, it is going perfect for me.

    For sure if I wanted to do 8 hour all day epics, I would have got an XL...

    You may well be better with the medium, you sound like you wish to build a real throw around ST...

    The BB height on my FR with tyres on etc is 37.3 cm, feels good, this thing rails on corners... Me loving it...

    Could be good to talk to Falco at Nicolai, he rides an ST and is around my height, be good to hear his thoughts on sizing too....

    Best of luck
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Err
    I'd imagine you could have a Helius-ST at or very close to those numbers. The stocker should come in around 14.15" with a Totem. If you ran a CCDB you could run a bit of extra sag to drop your BB a bit more.
    That's the fork (and shock) I'm thinking of... Now, on the large, I've noticed a 47 inch wheelbase. I'm used to 45.5. The front center measurement seems a bit longer than I like. I'm assuming 30 inches where i'm partial to 29 max... I'm wondering if a shorter top tube would be in order to keep the wheelbase in check? Or maybe a degree steeper head angle?

    This frame uses 135mm spacing in the rear right?
    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo
    The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.

  15. #15
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    I am just going through the whole sizing issue myself before I order a Helius ST. I am 6ft 4in and ride an XL size FR which I find perfect with a 90mm stem. Some people have said that going up in travel may result in the next size down being better, but I am not sure? Simon, at Nicolai UK thinks like for like is the way to go, so this is probably what I will do, but run a 60mm stem instead. After Whafe kindly posted a photo of Falco's bike, I have sent Falco an e-mail for his comments and will let you know the answer.

  16. #16
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    Hey Ryates, any answer on the frame sizes from Germany? I too am interested in this as my FR is an XL. I am definately having an ST next year and am thinking L or XL.

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    Hi lornibear, glad you asked because I am really stuck on this issue. I have e-mailed Falco at the factory and asked him to comment. By my rough calculations the slacker seat angle of the ST will result in the seat being 65mm further back with only a post extension of 150mm. This could be partly be offset by using a much shorter stem, but it is still a lot of extra length. Also the top tube length of the XL ST is 5mm longer. The combined effect maybe that it is too long? I am now considering the large. What do you think? I will post Falco's comments when I have them.

  18. #18
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    With your comments ryates, i would for sure go with a Large. The ST will move your riding to a different area and realm for sure. Will your FR be more your AM all day ride bike?

    I am absolutely stoked as I said above that I went with a large, along with a 65mm Stem and no spacers under the headstem, some would say it looks slightly small for me. But I assure you it is perfect.

    This last weekend I was in the US of A for work, so took the FR and rode with some peeps in San Diego, we did a huge ride pretty much with loads of climbing, which really hit home that the bike is as perfect as a bike I have had... The Talas fork lowered to 100mm was awesome for climbing... So am peaking in case you hadnt noticed...

    Am not at all saying Simon at Nicolai is wrong at all, just am not of the same opinion. The FR and ST are vastly different in there use factors. You want something that you can throw around in the air, move forward and get your weight up front for cornering etc and probly will not ride it on 8 hour all day epics so to speak...

    Keep us updated, this is an interesting one...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  19. #19
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    I have just had a brief look at the geometry for the Helius ST. By the figures stated, the comparison between my XL FR to an XL ST are:

    Seat Angle FR - 72.9
    Seat Angle ST - 67.2

    Top Tube FR - 625 + (70mm Stem) 695 effective length
    Top Tube ST - 630 + (45mm Stem) 675 effective length

    For me, the current effective length on the FR is fine. As Whafe quite rightly states, great for all day rides as well as the bike park. With the ST on the other hand, with only 20mm difference between the two, I am not sure the effective length of the ST is good for jumps/freeride/downhill use.

    If I went for a large ST with a top tube length of (610 + 45mm Stem), this on paper would be better numbers with an effective length of 655mm - some 45mm less than my FR.

    So on paper, the ST in large for my height of 6ft 4 (ish) would be better suited for FR/downhilling. What do you all think?

  20. #20
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    Lorni - Think you have hit the nail on the head. Would for sure go with a large as opposed to an XL...

    Shorter frame allows for more playing....
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    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  21. #21
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    Nice pics Whafe, that FR is looking good.

  22. #22
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    Falco's comments about his ST:



    I'm 186 an I ride a Helius ST in size M. I mainlly use it for bikepark, dirts, northshore trails and stuff like that. For tours riding or DH racing I would prefer the longer size L frame. For you it's the decision between L and XL.

    Best regards, Falco

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  23. #23
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    Am still in favour or thinking the Large is the way to go for an ST......... decision decisions
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  24. #24
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    Hey Whafe, I have just spent two days on our local bike park and have just changed the 100mm stem out for a 70mm. What a difference it makes. I have been hitting some jumps which have propelled me and my heft up nearly 4ft to flat and the FR just ate them up. Opted for a little more sag on the CCDB and even on the mini DH runs it was loving it, as was I. Next is some larger volume tyres and I am there.

    On the performance of the FR in XL, I would like to know adjust my views that I posted on here previously concerning the ST. I have put a lot of thought into this and have decided that for me at nearly 6ft 4, the XL ST could be the way ahead. With a 50mm stem, the ST would rock having an effective TT length of 680mm, still some 15mm shorter than my XL FR.

    I have also looked into the Knolly VTach, but am now thinking with a effective TT of 660mm (with 50mm stem), this may be too short for me.

    I had the pleasure of trying a Rocky Mountain RMX size large on the bikepark the other day with a 65mm stem and I can honestly say, for me, it was too short. My knees were not far off the bars and this was with an effective TT of 675mm. It was a lovely plush ride, as you would expect with 203mm of rear travel, but too small for me. So, for me, until someone changes my mind, the ST in XL it will be.

  25. #25
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    Hi Lornibear, I think I read somewhere that you said that you would now prefer the FR in large? Have I got this wrong? I am the same height as you (6ft 4in, 1930mm) and currently ride an 05 FR in XL with a top tube of 615mm, compared to the current model which is 625mm in XL or 605mm in large. Your advice would be appreciated since I am now considering an new FR (with extra strengthening for 66 or Totem). As a consequence of the new models, the ST I believe might be discontinued in the near future? Thanks

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