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  1. #1
    steep fast and loose :)
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    PSA : Helius Owners !

    Helius owners running a factory supplied air shock.
    Please deflate your air shock and measure the stroke that the shock provides to the 'bump-stop'.
    In the top position of the linkage, I'd expect you should see 57mm.
    I'm only getting 50mm stroke out of my Monarch 4.2 shock in the highest mount hole position.

    TIA

  2. #2
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    Do i have to remind you size dosent matter ?

    Is your shock not a 57mm stoke then? You just want that one with the bigger can

    Are we heading to fochabers Sunday? Text me dude.

  3. #3
    steep fast and loose :)
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    have you checked your stroke on the RP23 ?
    deflate the shock and measure the travel to the bump-stop - i bet it's only 50mm.
    foch's on, if you're driving ? ! ?

  4. #4
    steep fast and loose :)
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    has no-one measured their stroke yet ?
    c'mon - we need feedback !

  5. #5
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    Hi TLR with a Monarch 50mm you are only getting 143mm rear travel!

    Thats why I went for a DHX air with 57mm stroke, the RP23 can come 200 x 57mm as well though but I don't think the Monarch does. It says about it in the new Nicolai catologue.

  6. #6
    steep fast and loose :)
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    no way - the monarch is offered as a bloody option with the AM and no mention of the stroke being only 50mm !!!!!!
    i was told that the stroke provided with my shock would be 57mm AND therfore offering full travel capability ! ? !

    WTF ?

  7. #7
    wyrd bi ful rd
    Reputation: chinaman's Avatar
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    i am only using a 08 RP2 which is a 50mm stroke ...

    my coil shock is definitely a 57mm and at full compression the stroke is definitely beyond 50mm, but am not able to compress the bumper to reach 57mm unless i remove the bumper to find out ... maybe it reaches 57mm whilst on a bike when i do a full drop off to flat ...

    be interesting to find out if anyone has actually measured their 57mm stroke RP23 or whatever, to see if the stroke actually reaches 57mm ...

    i have noticed that all shocks do not specify the stroke length anywhere on the shock ... at least not the 3 that i have owned ...

  8. #8
    steep fast and loose :)
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    mine only reaches 50mm. no more.
    RS / SRAM do offer a 200mm i2i x 57mm stroke, but I've not been supplied with this as per the order request.
    i'm disappointed, but certain Nicolai UK will sort it out for me ASAP.

  9. #9
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    'mine only reaches 50mm. no more.'

    so Suzie told me. not sure what nicolai can do about it though

  10. #10
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    Generally 200mm air shocks have had a 50mm stroke and we have supplied those with CC and FR frames where air shocks have been specified for many years. There are now a number of 200x57 shocks.

    Karl assures me that all of their Monarchs were 57mm stroke

    (edited at 630pm 16/11/08)
    Last edited by nicolai-uk; 11-16-2008 at 11:25 AM.
    Simon Still
    Momentum Distribution
    www.nicolai-uk.com

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipper
    'mine only reaches 50mm. no more.'

    so Suzie told me. not sure what nicolai can do about it though
    Jesus!

    BUT im amazed Nicolai wouldnt pass that on to the guy paying 1600+ quid for the frame.

    As far as i know i've got a 57mm stroke (7mm more than TLR LOL!) but its from mojo i think.

  12. #12
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    when i was getting my AM frame i wanted to get the Monarch shock knowing that they do have a 57mm stroke. checked with Nicolai to see what is the stroke length that they can supply with the frame and they confirmed 50mm and so i went without a shock as i have already got a RP2 at 50mm which works fine ... basically i did not need to use the additional 'propedal' that the RP23 offers ... climbs without bobbing with you on the seat with the shock in 'fully open' ...

    assuming that the leverage ratio is about 1:2.8 ... 7mm difference equates to 20mm loss in travel? ... dont worry about it ...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinaman
    when i was getting my AM frame i wanted to get the Monarch shock knowing that they do have a 57mm stroke. checked with Nicolai to see what is the stroke length that they can supply with the frame and they confirmed 50mm and so i went without a shock as i have already got a RP2 at 50mm which works fine ... basically i did not need to use the additional 'propedal' that the RP23 offers ... climbs without bobbing with you on the seat with the shock in 'fully open' ...

    assuming that the leverage ratio is about 1:2.8 ... 7mm difference equates to 20mm loss in travel? ... dont worry about it ...
    Sorry i dont agree if some1 wanted a 140mm frame would they not have bought one?

  14. #14
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    Right I am off down to my work shop if the bike has not got a 57mm stroke like I requested then..........


    Back in 5
    Last edited by Garry AM; 11-18-2008 at 10:48 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry AM
    Right I am off down to my work shop if the bike has not got a 57mm stroke like I requested then.......... Light blue touch paper and retire Nicolai UK

    The phrases not fit for purpose, mis-sold and small claims court come to mind

    To top it off I was all ready pi$****d off that it came with a 2008 shock not 09 but this could be the straw that broke the camels back.

    Back in 5
    I love my nicolai but i have to agree, why would they hide such info when its obvious some engineering type like Simon would find out

    Wonder how many people with air @ the rear know they have not got a 160mm frame!!!!

    Tsk Tsk...

  16. #16
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    Gary let us know ASAP, how does a retard like myself check the stroke, do i just measure the shaft? why is the air required to be taken out to do that? Did that make sense?

  17. #17
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    It has 57mm stroke so what Nicolai UK said was incorrect they have been able to source 200 i2i 57mm stroke shocks but its a 2008 DHX Air 5.

    Thank goodness for that I don't need stress like that on Sunday morning!

    TLR have a word!

  18. #18
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    You let all of the air out of the main chamber, ALL any left and it'll stop before the end then jump up and down on it a bit! so it fully compresses then leave the little rubber ring where it ends up then pump the shock back up and measure from the rubber ring to the seal that pushed it there. Sorted.

  19. #19
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    Awesome thanks Mine should be fine as its from Mojo Hoodoo

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry AM
    Right I am off down to my work shop if the bike has not got a 57mm stroke like I requested then.......... Light blue touch paper and retire Nicolai UK

    To top it off I was all ready pi$****d off that it came with a 2008 shock not 09 but this could be the straw that broke the camels back.

    Back in 5
    Unfortunately there is a very long lead time for OEM shocks and we can only supply what we have. Anyone who paid 2008 price for an AM, like yourself, got a very good deal so you did very nicely overall.
    Simon Still
    Momentum Distribution
    www.nicolai-uk.com

  21. #21
    steep fast and loose :)
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    Simon Still - YGM

  22. #22
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    helius AM rear travel

    Hi all

    the helius AM needs 57mm of stroke to get full rear travel .

    it is correct that the monach shock should have 57mm stroke to get full travel
    and if a bike has one with only 50mm stroke, then Rock shocks does a mistake
    at the delivery of shocks do Nicolai. We never ordered Monarch shocks with 50mm stroke.

    how did you measured the shock travel ?

    please proceed like this:

    a) let all the air off the shock ( do not take it off the bike)
    b) let a second guy sit on the bike = a guy with 90kg of weight would be best
    = 200 pound of weight
    c) measure the eye to eye distance (center to center)

    the result should be 200-57 = 143mm

    It is impossible to compress to shock complete by hand in an unmounted
    situation. This might be the cause why you measured 50mm only.

    If the shock is wrong in travel, we will send you a correct one free of charge
    = no problem !

    best reg

    Karlheinz Nicolai; www.nicolai.net

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai-uk
    Unfortunately there is a very long lead time for OEM shocks and we can only supply what we have. Anyone who paid 2008 price for an AM, like yourself, got a very good deal so you did very nicely overall.
    Its only a good deal if you get what you order dude! I'd rather pay more for what i want rather than what you think is a good deal and you have in stock

    I would have been p1ssed with a 2008 shock since the 2009 fox kit is greatly improved.

    Anyway i've no real gripes just the customer service seems poor after reading that thread re. the paint etc but hey great frames.

    I sent an email recently and still have no reply

    Cheers

    Derek

  24. #24
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    sorry to Nicolai UK

    additionally I need to say sorry to Nicolai UK (Mike and simon), because I have not supplied them with the correct informations reg. the shock within the helius AM frame in time while the model was launched.

    best reg

    Karl Nicolai

  25. #25
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    Thats more like the reply i would have expected, nice one Karl.

  26. #26
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    Top marks to Nicolai

    While i've got you on the forum Karl what experience have you guys there had with the CCDB or Bos Stoy rear shocks?
    Last edited by Garry AM; 11-16-2008 at 11:46 AM.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekr

    I sent an email recently and still have no reply

    Derek
    You need to check your inbox. you mailed us 4 days ago, i got an answer back today and emailed you about 2 hours ago - ie before you posted this.
    Simon Still
    Momentum Distribution
    www.nicolai-uk.com

  28. #28
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    Impressed!

    Thanks for coming onto the forum Karl, that feed back puts my mind at rest.

    My hat comes of to you for producing a fantastic frame, it's truly superb.

    With regards to the shock, yes I was upset to get an 08 shock due to waiting for 09 stuff to come out before ordering the frame on purpose, however it seams to be working well the only down side is that the propedal lever is so short its difficult to turn while riding along with cold damp hands, I can see why they put a longer lever on for 09.

    Many Thanks

    Garry

  29. #29
    steep fast and loose :)
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    Karl , Simon , Mark, et al.
    Indeed an excellent response. Fantastic customer service.
    I look forward to receiving my 57mm stroke Monarch 4.2 on immediate availability.

    Kindest regards.

  30. #30
    steep fast and loose :)
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    Might I also add that this is as good as Turner's customer service and therefore unmatched by the remainder of the mountain biking industry. A huge thumbs up

  31. #31
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    thanks for your prompt intervention karl. As a Nicolai dealer it's good to know that manufacturer support is never far away. However now that you've broken your silence you do realise you'll be expected to hang around the forum more often

  32. #32
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    Garry AM
    I've got a CCDB here that I've used on both the AM and FR. What info are you after?

  33. #33
    steep fast and loose :)
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    garry am - fwiw, the ccdb masks the genius of the AM's horst link and it's lateral stiffness imo. unnecessary on a bike whose mid-stoke control is so well controlled.

  34. #34
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    garry am - ignore TLR he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about!

    the biggest benifit of the ccdb for me is in the way it controls the bottom of the stroke and LSC/R situations. No more wallowing/bottoming in G-outs or drop offs.

  35. #35
    steep fast and loose :)
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    garry am - please bear in mind that dipper is a clydesdale, hence the wallow and bottoming inherent in his riding style

  36. #36
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    Hi Dipper, TLR,

    I was interested how they ride, as far as I know the Stoy is De Carbon and the CCDB a two system shock. Therefore adjustments to one setting of the Stoy can effect the others whereas on the CCDB it doesn't.

    Also I believe that the CCDB will need sending back to USA for service whereas I can take the Stoy to TF Tuned and get it back same day.

    TLR I don't know what a Clydesdale is! but am guessing its not complementary :-)

    I was only looking for a coil unit for up lift days etc.

  37. #37
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    Karl,

    Thanks for the private message and its great you came on the forum to sort out any misconceptions there may have been. I think the UK guys gave the wrong impression from the information they had which is a dangerous thing to do on the internet as im sure you know. A simple statement can be blown out of preportion especially when someone has paid alot of money for a product (Be it discounted or not!). Might be wise in the future to do some research before a post is made, I will also follow those wise words

    Your frames are awesome and i'm really enjoying riding the AM and its great to know; now that there's some excellent backup from you guys in Germany and hopefully the UK.

    Sorry if my statement about customer service was a bit out of line, but at the time that was the impression i had; I'm very happy to say that opinion has changed and I'll certainly be riding a Nicolai for a long time to come, great job mate.

    Regards

    Derek

  38. #38
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    ....time.....

    hi all

    unfortunatelly I am very busy every day and not able to view and post more on all the international web forums.

    but you all can do me a favour and telling me if somebody is posting wrong issues about
    the Nicolai products in any forum and we can react in a proper manner with our team of dealers; distributors and factory side

    thanks and best reg



    Karl Nicolai

  39. #39
    steep fast and loose :)
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    Karl - Indeed we will be happy to provide feedback.
    This issue proves that customer service and customer satisfaction is king, to any business, especially one as specialised , (no pun intended) , as mountain biking.
    Keeping your customers informed via the MTBR Nicolai Forum however , is most probably the most direct route to your customer base.

    Regards,

    Simon.

  40. #40
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    Well there you go - proof if it was needed that we bought bikes from some one who really does care about their products and customers. I hope you all get your shocks sorted, but also think of it this way - when did you last get a message from the guy who owns the company that built your bike?

  41. #41
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    Geetee1972 i can better that!!!

    How ofter do you get sent a new set of bolts for your frame direct from Karlheinz Nicolai!
    Arrived today, awesome is all i can say! Great surprise

    Cable guide bolts corroded, They only actioned the email on Sunday so i must say i didnt expect a direct replacement sent to me so quickly! Amazing!

    Nice addition of a 09 catalogue to temp me!

    Thanks alot Karl.

  42. #42
    steep fast and loose :)
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    FWIW, there's still no sign of the shock arriving, now we're approaching the end of January !

  43. #43
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    thats hardly Nicolais fault though is it? RS supply the shocks. If they don't turn up when they should there's not much they can do but stamp and shout I guess. Much like you're doing here!

  44. #44
    steep fast and loose :)
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    then it's the dealers fault for not identifying the wrong shock supply on delivery.
    i'll take it up with Citizens Advice tomorrow.

  45. #45
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    erm.. if i hadn't pointed it you'd still be none the wiser! If I could be bothered I'd dig up your 'My new Helius AM, best thing since toast' blethers that you wrote before I asked you to measure your shock stroke!

  46. #46
    steep fast and loose :)
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    Citizens advice opens in 3 hours. Be prepared.

  47. #47
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    I've got my standard response ready. 'gravity...who? sorry you've got the wrong number'

  48. #48
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    I told you bin the RS pooop and get a fox, job done. Agree'd re. the delivery thing if they dont have them they cant send you it bud! I'm the worst one for moaning @ Nicolai UK but from what i've heard their communication skills are far better over the phone than they are via email although i'm sure i've burned my bridges with them now! Cant help venting after paying out my hard earned dosh, after all i'm just a poor designer...

    As for the Citizens advice, are you sure Dippers the father?
    Visit - www.gravity-sports.co.uk - Exclusive high end MTB Products

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