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  1. #1
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    Potential AC spec/Info

    Hi all. Getting interested in buying an AC with following set up - BOS Stoy and Deville's at 140mm.
    Anyone else running this? What's your experience? What is head angle?
    Also is bolt thru rear really needed? Is it not stiff enough with standard QR?

  2. #2
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    I am running a Bos Deville 140mm on my AC but with a CCDB.
    It is an amazing combination.

    I have a 12mm rear on mine.dont know if its stiffer,never ridden an AC with a QR rear.The back end is stif on an AC,so maybe its not needed.

  3. #3
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    Go with a 12mm rear end, the extra weight is sweet F all.... As above, the rear is stiffer than a huge stiff thing, but a 12mm is a must these days..
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    In order to set the Devilles at 140mm do you have to physically cut the internals making it a one way process?

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    Main reason for the question about the 12mm rear is that it will mean a new wheel too. Running a Foes with QR at the moment and haven't noticed any flex/weakness issues and thought the AC looks even more well built.

    Hi geetee (it was your AM I was admiring outside 18 Bikes, I think, that made me start thinking Nicolai again), I heard that the Deville at 140mm was a one way process but seeing as I have a DH bike as well, and have run FOX 160's on the Foes for the past few years am thinking that a really good 140 is all I need for Peak's trail bike....

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    Hi Jon - ah were you the one taking a picture? This was a little while ago now, I think back in Feb? I was with a mate who was on a Mojo HD with Deviles as it happens.

    Here are some thoughts:

    Yes, I was pretty sure that the Deviles at 140mm were a one way process but I don't think that that is any reason not to go with them and the points you've made in the previous post make it even more logical. Plus I think you're absolutely right, 140mm is about as much as you need for anything that's not a DH track in the UK.

    I agree with this point so much that I've actually taken my Helius AM on a path to effectively turn it into an AC and my set up is now running a Rock Shox Revelation RLT Ti (at 150mm) and the Cane Creek Double Barrel.

    I haven't ridden the BOS front/rear combination but I have ridden my mates Mojo HD with the Devile fork and I've followed his experience of that fork. What I can tell you is that it's not an easy fork to set up and it's not a fork for everyone. It's very much 'racer' orientated, so the compression damping is very firm and you shouldn't expect an 'armchair' ride from it. You really need to be comfortable with playing with the compression and rebound settings otherwise you can easily end up with a spring rate way too soft and compression damping way too hard. This is what happened to my friend; he was trying to set the fork up with the right amount of sag and basing everything on static measurements. I guess this could happen with any fork that has adjustable compression damping, but it seems more likely with the Devile.

    I think itís an amazing fork and itís very light for 160mm travel, but the, that may be the stumbling block with the build youíre looking at; the Devile is only marginally stiffer than say the RS Revelation but the Revelation is a good 250g lighter and, IMO, the damping on the Revelation is almost as good and certainly far easier to live with and get the most from.

    I can definitely see the logic for going BOS front and rear and probably if money and weight werenít really issues, then this would be the right decision. I would encourage you to consider as an alternative the CCDB/RS Revelation combo and in particular, I would ask Dave Garland at Stendec to supply you with the CCDB and have him do the initial set up.

    I wouldnít have previously thought this possible but actually it does seem like there are internal changes that can be made to the CCDB that do improve the way it works, at least with Nicolai Helius models. The changes heís made to mine (and I have TLR to thank for this pointer) really have brought the bike to life (and itís not like it was dead or lumpen before!) The bike pops and fizzes with energy; itís planted when you want it to be and flies with the least provocation and is perfectly balanced when in the air. Thereís loads of trail feedback and to some extent, the rear has that slightly firmer feel to it that the Devile gives at the front of my mateís bike. But there is loads of grip and the bike is still hugely predictable and communicative.

    The benefits of this set up versus the BOS front/rear is that the RS Revelation fork is both cheaper and lighter and the Devile and it is brilliant. I came to it, just recently, from a Fox 36 Float set at 140mm, but that always seemed to be a little choked and constrained compared to the Revelation (although the Fox 36 is a much stiffer chassis).

    I canít comment on the bolt through rear because I donít have it but in the past Iíve said that there is no material difference based on a very limited test ride. The only reason I didnít specify one originally was to save cost, both on the frame and the new wheel the option would have demanded, but to be honest, now that seems like crazy reasoning given Iím on my third wheelset since I took delivery of the frame! I wouldnít even think about it now and just specify it. Oh and go with a tapered HT as well; you may as well future proof the bike as much as possible and it sounds like youíd be looking to fit a Cane Creek angle set as well given the build youíre going for.

    As for my AM to AC conversion, this is documented on a thread elsewhere but itís only really of relevance to people with the older style and geometry of AMs and even then, only relevant if youíre looking to lose weight by running a shorter, lighter 32mm stanchion fork like the Revelation or Fox 32.

  7. #7
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    geetee, you so need to write a book for me, In saying that, am not worthy of a book, but you get my point, your writing is always stellar...

    Jon - please keep us posted on your build, exciting, love to follow a new build... Yeah ha
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  8. #8
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    Hi Geetee - no, not me taking pictures (just quietly perving!)
    Was thinking Revelation, (or dropping the 36 to 140/150) but was a little concerned about the stiffness. I'm neither light (16st) nor a light rider (like bashing down rocky descents). Was thinking that a coil rear and a 32mm stanchion front might be a bit of a mis-match...
    Pretty happy with working with compression damping (got the 36 just how I like it) and like the lack of dive.
    More to think about. Buying bikes is such a pain!!!

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    In saying that, am not worthy of a book, but you get my point, your writing is always stellar...
    Whafe you're too kind but the complement is graciously received

    Jon it's a good point about the potential mismatch between coil damper and 32mm fork but my experience is that the Revelation and CCDB are working really well together.

    Whenever I get questioned about my bike and the cane creek, the questions are almost always focused on it being a coil rather than an air spring. There is an unstated assumption that it is this feature that makes the difference in performance and this feature that determined my choice. But to be honest, I don't think the nature of the spring has as much to do with it as the damping because ultimately it's this that has the biggest impact on how the bike rides.

    My point is this; while a 32mm air sprung fork may seem a little incongrous with a coil sprung damper, ultimately there's no reason why the two shouldn't complement each other very well, especially if the damping is well set up.

    Regarding weight, I can give you complete assurance on that by telling you that I am also close to 16 stone (I'm 15.5 stone/100kg without kit) and ride in a similar fashion. I reasonably quick downhill and tend to be a bit of a bulldozer through the rock gardens. The 32mm forks I've ridden (actually both the Rev and the Fox 32 Float) have been more than fine in those situations. The only time I felt there to be a flex issue was with the 15mm QR Fox 32 Float and that was on steep compressions, roll-ins and nose heavy landings, where I could feel the fork flexing fore and aft. But in the 'chunk' the steering accuracy and precision was all just fine.

    What would be good to hear about is the peformance of the RS Vivid Air - Whafe is running one on his AM 29er and that sounds like a great choice with the RS Revelation or BOS Devile. Again its about damping performance not the nature of the spring and it's an option I would have seriously considerd had it been available to me at the time I ordered the CCDB.

  10. #10
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    The Deville has the internals shortened to make it 140mm,It is a one way process.It can be made back to 160mm but this involves buying new parts,which R53 have told me will be quite expensive.
    I weigh 16st and have been using the Deville/ccdb combination for quite a while(xmas) and love it,I had Revelations before and find the Devilles a slighly firmer ride,they sit much higher in the stroke when riding,and run very quick on the rebound setting,feels weird at first but gives huge amounts of traction when it gets rough.
    A few people had a blast on my bike and all loved the Deville,Ccdb combination and commented on how active it was,and how it hugged the ground,always gave traction.
    I notice there is less fork flex on the Deville,it probably due to the larger stanchions.And it will hold a better line in the rough.

  11. #11
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    In regards to the CCDB, I have had 2 bikes that were running the CCDB... It is more or less all I have known to run for the most part of my times in riding Nicolai's....

    Fantastic shock fullstop.....

    As geetee mentions, I am running a RS Vivid on the AM 29er. I went this way to try something different, along with the fact that I needed to be thinking of weight. My goal was to build a 29er Helius FR more or less...

    I have been very pleased with the Vivid Air, it has not hindered my riding a bit...

    I am not as techy as say geetee, norcosam, dipper etc in knowing how something feels, I am no pro rider either,, but can ride a bit... And the Vivid Air is well worth a look at...

    I am not one to think if you are running a coil shock, you therefore need a coil fork... I have run air forks for years and dont think I have been hindered at all...

    One wish though would be to have a Bos 29er 160mm fork...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  12. #12
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    mmmmm. Thanks for the above guys. Maybe a Revelation/Vivid Air set up will give a really good compromise between performance and weight.
    Checking out some frame sizes this weekend. Getting a litle excited....

  13. #13
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    i run a 2011 float RLC kashima + CCDB on my hekius AM. stunning set-up [ccdb tuned by dave at stendec which is imperitive]. however, the amount of travel and the capability is simply wasted if all you do is trail ride. this set up is more Alpine requirements, noy UKtrail.

    my VF2 runs 2010 Revelation Dual Air Teams + Monarch 4.2. For trail duties, I must confess that the Revelation is an absolutely incredible fork with amazing grip and damping. makes the 2010 Float 32 140mm on my Ti456 feel wooden in comparison.

    on an AC I'd go for the vivid air + revelations if i had a choice. i'm really impressed with the blackbox damping units.

    for reference, i've just come home from 7 days riding the 7 Stanes averagng about 50km per day !

    the revelations were the fork of choice. my only criticism is the poor finish. fox have them beat in that regard only.

  14. #14
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    Why the Vivid? Surely the Monarch+ would be enough... or wait for the Bos VIP.

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    I am thinking a Monarch plus would be better suited for trail riding.165g saving opver a Vivid air.

    My mate is having one on his AC(ordered,due this month) will wait to see what his rides like before i order one.

    My CCDB is amazing,but think i would run a monarch plus and save about 400g

  16. #16
    steep fast and loose :)
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    sorry - monarch+ was my intention !

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    My CCDB is amazing,but think i would run a monarch plus and save about 400g
    You see you say that but maybe you should send your CCDB off to Dave at Stendec and see what it feels like after. If it's due a service anyway, why not?

    I may not take much notice of TLR when he's spouting crap about how poor the riding is down in the south of England (OK so I know where I would choose if location made no diffrence but that doesn't mean you can't have bags of fun down here because YOU CAN!) but give him his due about how good the changes were from Stendec.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by geetee1972
    You see you say that but maybe you should send your CCDB off to Dave at Stendec and see what it feels like after. If it's due a service anyway, why not?

    I may not take much notice of TLR when he's spouting crap about how poor the riding is down in the south of England (OK so I know where I would choose if location made no diffrence but that doesn't mean you can't have bags of fun down here because YOU CAN!) but give him his due about how good the changes were from Stendec.
    It will need a service later this year so will have it custom tuned then.Will have the CCDB on the FR done first and then see if i want the one on the AC custom tuned.

    Theres plenty of riding available down here,you need to know where to go.

    Was thinking about weight,what 1lb when i weigh 225lbs.

  19. #19
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    If you go air shock, stick to a normal volume air can. A large one may blow a bit too easily through travel, but that's my experience with an older early 2010 AC with the older rockers.

    A coil over also feels superb.

    Check with Nicolai, they know.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp
    If you go air shock, stick to a normal volume air can. A large one may blow a bit too easily through travel, but that's my experience with an older early 2010 AC with the older rockers.

    A coil over also feels superb.

    Check with Nicolai, they know.
    Yup. I've never met a large volume can that I've liked over a standard can. Then again, I've never met an air shock that I've preferred to a coil but for some applications I'd still go air. Had a standard can rp23 pushed a few weeks back for the ac and they did a good job
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