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  1. #1
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    Pedalstrike - TLR was right after all.

    I must say I've read TLR's comments about pedal strike on the Helius AM and I thought "yeah great - pilot error I reckon".

    However, having wrecked 3 sets of SPDs I was starting to think he might be on to something.

    Then I built up a Helius CC and rode it over some of my favourite trails and guess what - no pedal strike at all!!

    No question the AM flies when gravity is on its side, but the pedal strike is starting to make me nervous. Every time I go near a rocky section, I'm panicking I'm going to hit something!

    Now running flat pedals as can't afford to replace SPDs at the current rate!!

  2. #2
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    AM and CC are to diffierent bikes. Because of less travel on the CC it rides higher which gives you less pedal strikes. The AM on the other hand must be able to shred downhills, that can't be done with too high bottom bracket.

    What I'm trying to say is that long travel AM bikes like the Helius AM Must be low enough to feel comfortable at speed thus giving some people problems with pedal strike. Just how it is.

  3. #3
    steep fast and loose :)
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    there is a [potential] fix however.

    i've had my CCDB custom tuned and had a whole host of settings introduced to the damping circuits to help the bike maintain more dynamisism.

    worth speaking to Dave at Stendec if you're really serious about your riding and getting the shock set up for both the frame and rider.

  4. #4
    steep fast and loose :)
    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
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    EVENTUALLY GOT MY CCDB CUSTOM TUNED !!!!!!!!!

    HERE’S THE INFO FROM STENDEC :

    • FLOWING PISTON AIR CHAMBER SET AT 25mm
    • INCREASED 4 SHIMS ON COMPRESSION STACK
    • HIGHER BLOW-OFF THRESHOLD DUE TO INCREASED OIL FLOW.
    • N2 PRESSURE SET AT 220PSI

    • THIS PROVIDES A MORE DYNAMIC FEELING SHOCK [MORE ACTIVE] WITH MORE POP AND MID STROKE STABILISATION.

    • LSC + 6 CLICKS OUT
    • HSC TURNS OUT
    • LSR + 8 CLICKS IN
    • HSR 1 TURN OUT

    • FITTED NEW BOTTOM OUT DAMPER [4mm NOT STD 8mm] GIVES MORE STROKE TRAVEL.

    • NEW O RING SEALS FITTED.

    • NEW 500# TI SPRING INSTALLED.

    FOR ANY MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT DAVE AT STENDEC-WORKS. http://www.stendec-works.com/

  5. #5
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    Wow - serious commitment there! I have a DHX Air 5.0 so while the CCDB solution looks good, I doubt I'll be splashing that much dosh - the SPDs are cheaper.

    Certainly are different rides Mikael - I average the same times on rides interestingly - just faster up on my CC and faster down on my AM!!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    there is a [potential] fix however.

    i've had my CCDB custom tuned and had a whole host of settings introduced to the damping circuits to help the bike maintain more dynamisism.

    worth speaking to Dave at Stendec if you're really serious about your riding and getting the shock set up for both the frame and rider.
    I thought you'd posted that it wasn't possible to custom tune a CCDB since all the adjustment was in the external settings?
    Simon Still
    Momentum Distribution
    www.nicolai-uk.com

  7. #7
    steep fast and loose :)
    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
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    serious commitment in order to resolve what i considered a major design flaw / oversight on the first batch of AM's [mine anyway].

    geometrically and on paper, the issue doesn't appear to be a concern, but when the leverage plot is charted, there's an element of miod stroke "drop-off" which most shocks struggle to deal with...........finally resolved by STENDEC consequent to their experience of lots of other frames with similar stroke characteristics.

    i'm no suspension expert [compared to STENDEC] and the interneyt is of course full of experts, but i took his advice and he's transformed the shock and subsequently the ride.

    i had a couple of hours this afternoon and although pedal strike is not eliminated, the shock deals with the mid stroke and normal trail impacts much more capably.

    impossible to say why other than the magic weaved by STENDEC.

  8. #8
    steep fast and loose :)
    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai-uk
    I thought you'd posted that it wasn't possible to custom tune a CCDB since all the adjustment was in the external settings?

    indeed i did prior to further investigating the issues and giving my feedback to Dave over the last couple of weeks.

    i was wrong and he's transformed the design flaw in the Helius AM I have

  9. #9
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    TLR, sounds interesting. I will try it.

  10. #10
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    What's the cost TLR, although I have yet to encounter the issue?

    I'm just getting the hang of this new beast so likely om not hitting stuff as hard at the moment. It would be good to know though.

  11. #11
    steep fast and loose :)
    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
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    pilot - 100 for the tune and service.

    about 130 for the spring plus new bushings and postage.

    all in about 260 ish.

  12. #12
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    Blimey makes my S*toy look like a bargain as you get that service included from the start!

  13. #13
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    Stoy on its way for my next build.

  14. #14
    steep fast and loose :)
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    You can't go wrong with either tbh but a good suspension design shouldn't have to rely upon fancy shock tuning. Good suspension design will allow even the most basic shocks to function within reaSon....
    Great interview in st mag this month about suspension design.....

  15. #15
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    Got a rp23 bv on mine, the only time I've been able replicate any semblance of pedal strike is by running the front and rear with a ridiculous amount of sag (just bracketing setting)

    I was wary about changing to reset headset and devilles cause I thought it might raise the BB to much, Im no downhill ninja, I use the bike as a heavy duty trail bike and ride all sorts of terrain, honestly can't see where your pedal strikes are coming from.

    Might just be a bad combination of low profile tryes, low AC and dodgey shock settings?

    I'm also not sure that 2 feedback makes a suspension design not good, I personally get on fantastic with it
    Last edited by wpuk; 01-19-2011 at 01:50 PM.

  16. #16
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    For what it's worth the magazine, What Mountain Bike rated it best in class when the reviewed it and it came in 3rd at the end of year round up, which given the fact I've never seen a Nicolai advert in there mag is a fairly solid recommendation

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    You can't go wrong with either tbh but a good suspension design shouldn't have to rely upon fancy shock tuning. Good suspension design will allow even the most basic shocks to function within reaSon....
    Great interview in st mag this month about suspension design.....
    we're not looking for good here though. this is the nicolai forum. we're looking for great! the only way to achieve great is to have a shock matched to the frame charachteristics and the riders weight and style. anything else is a compromise

    im not sure how you'd quantify a good suspension design. a horst link is good as there's few surprises for the shock and so it works pretty well with a wide range of shocks. single pivots are good as theyre simplistic but give more work for the shock so a shock tuned to suit is preferable. other fancy pants systems with varying curves pretty much dictate the need for a custom tuned shock

    it's fair to say that any off the shelf system is compromised regardless of frame or shock as they dont take the individual into the equation. if you do happen to be in the stock design range(generally @ 11 stone seems to be the norm) then you may find off the shelf works for you. for the rest of us, custom tuning is the way forward.
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

    flash bikes for flash gits

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai-uk
    I thought you'd posted that it wasn't possible to custom tune a CCDB since all the adjustment was in the external settings?
    Ive not checked (yet) from Stendec / Dave what he`s actually modifying, but based on information in this thread and some tales from local Cane Creek importer, it seems that there`s question of custom-tuning and upgrading too. IRL there are CCDB`s in three generations - first one was the original without gold ano body, next with gold ano body and the newest one with only internal, not visible changes. Although there are changes in internals between all those three gen`s. Orifaces are shaped in different way, oil channels are differently shaped etc.

    Ill suppose that what Stendec is basically offering when they offer CCDB valve upgrading, is mod from older generation internals to newest one. Don`t know are those mods with shimstacks part of that or are they Stendec- specials ... Im sure Stendec is capable to fully customize CCDB, just thinking what`s already done if you`ll get brand new 3rd gen CCDB?

    I was so interested to see what Dave can really do, that mine CCDB is already shipped to Stendec...

  19. #19
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    It is a little similar to Moto X, I always upgraded and tuned suspension, most put on aftermarket mufflers etc..... Silly to start with, sort the suspension...

    Hence I always had an Ohlins shock on the Moto X bike, hence me jumping straight onto a CCDB when they were released.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  20. #20
    steep fast and loose :)
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    without doubt, the best way forward is to discuss your requirements with a custom tuner you trust.

    once that's done, take the plunge and hopefully you'll reap the rewards.

    it took me a while to get it done, but as my ccdb was bust, i had it fixed and tuned at the same time.

  21. #21
    steep fast and loose :)
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    and a tip for ccdb users is to lube the adjusters after a ride with some silicone lube, keeping the o-rings lubed behind the adjusters.

    thank stendec for that tip too

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