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  1. #26
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    Thanks.

    650b MM is about the same diameter as the HD I was running before. MM gives more grip and still rolls well. Works well with the TK at the back but might be worth trying the Rock Razor as an alternative rear tyre?

  2. #27
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    I'm quit intrigued by the whole "FWD geometry" thinking. On paper, a lot makes sense. Few questions jumps to mind though: How does it effect being able to lift the front wheel (and manual)? Has to be harder right? - also for slower stuff, or not ragging at the absoult edge, how does it feel compared to "normal" setup? Slow? Twitchy? none of the above?

  3. #28
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    Hi Daniel,

    Lifting the front, yes a bit more difficult and requires more technique/adjustment in set up so a slightly higher front end but DH bikes have a similar front centre due to 62-63deg head angles and those boys lift the front easily enough (they are better than me though) it's one reason I have kept the rear short compared to Chris Porter and similar to the Mondraker's. But I'm crap at manuals and got used to it quickly, you can basically be more aggressive without fear of overdoing it, but it's also why it's so good at climbing.
    How does it feel at slower speeds? It's fine, wouldn't describe it as twitch at all but very responsive, anything but twitchy however the steering response is so direct it's initially a shock and your brain says it must be twitchy but you quickly learn it's definitely not.
    I wouldn't say it feels slow but it definitely wants you to go faster, at least that's what it says to me when I ride it (I mean the geometry by 'it') and the fact you always want to ride it like you stole it could lead to you feeling that going slowly is a bit dull. Only talking trundling along a fire road or section of pedally Singletrack here tho I assume as opposed to techy slow in steep or rooty/rocky/tight stuff where in my opinion it just feels responsive.


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  4. #29
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    Thanks for the quick reply the_Pilot - your comments make a lot of sense. I find myself lusting for a longer travel bike, that'll inspire confidence for bigger stuff, but also something that would work for longer/slower/techier XC rides. I've never really tried anything as low, slack, and long like the Mondrakers or your Nicolai... but the numbers and theory make sense, it's just so darn hard to get a demo, or even a sitting on something similar where I live. Closes thing; I was looking at the v2 Banshee spitfire. I would normally go for a small (I'm usually between small and medium size) for "flickabilty", but lately I've been thinking of a size medium, with a 10-30mm stem... Besides the longer TT and shorter stems, is there anything "special" about the Fwd geometry that other manufactures aren't doing or can't do?

  5. #30
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    Nothing other manufacturers can't do.
    Longer front centre/TT
    Much shorter stem
    Steep seat tube
    Sometimes lower
    It doesn't need to be as slack in the HA
    The main issue is public acceptance and access/past experience.
    It's not for everyone I don't think, it depends a little on your riding style how much you like it.
    It was trying it that converted me..



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  6. #31
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    the_pilot, where the bike pr0n from Nicolai's welding/machine shop at?

  7. #32
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    Ah. I got progress update today...slight delay due to Marcel going on holiday! So final geometry check this week, final welding and finishing next week, ship to Hoshi for custom decals w/c 16th June.

    My problem at the moment is still forks/wheels/seatpost.

    Sensible me says Pike/keep my CCDBa ( both available now)
    Subliminal desires balancing performance/looks/maintenance suggest Fox 36/Float X Avy, available early July..
    Bespoke boutique option is BOS Deville & Kirk but Kirk is on backorder..

    Then I'm waiting on carbon rims from Ray at Derby (early-mid July)

    So I may have to do something interim for fork or shock or both and wheels!

    Wheel options are build my Chris Kings into a Syntace W35/Flow EX Then rebuild when Derby's arrive.
    OR
    Buy Syntace W35 wheelset (very light hubs) and then build Derby's onto them and do something else with my King hubs (it's about a 150g saving with Syntace but more expensive choice)
    Pike is lightest fork and easily serviced. Fox is stiffest (marginally according to my sources but they tell me it's an awesome fork) so allegedly great, 70g more than Pike and more expensive to buy and service.
    BOS is most expensive, heaviest has sublime damping but questionable (according to Internet not in my experience) reliability and worst support but is open bath and (theoretically) requires less maintenance than either of the others is easy to do yourself and sexy as hell and the only one is white..( bike is Team Gates Blue)
    So as you can see I am totally decided!
    At least I know the colour..
    I could put an open bath avy damper in the Pike too I guess...aghhh

    Ideally I'll wait and get the fox, still not sure about what to do with wheels..

    Also I wanted to use a Vecnum Moveloc 170 or 200mm seatpost but they have also been delayed until end July!



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  8. #33
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    Hey, at least all your choices sound good. Syntace/Derbys sound amazing. Or take a look at IBIS wheels...similar rim design to Derby. By all accounts Avy cartridges are very good and they make a big difference to the Pike according to a report I read in the Knolly Forum.

  9. #34
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    This may sound overly simplified but couldn't someone have "forward" geometry by just ordering a size up from their normal (ie get large if you take a medium) and then putting a really short stem on?

    I am currently trying something similar on my Helius AC 2013. I slackened off the head angle with a Works Headset to 65 degrees and fitted a 35mm stem. I find the Helius is quite a long top tube/reach for a large so the short stem makes it feel just right. The offset headset has also lengthened the wheelbase and made the seat angle steeper. It now climbs better and descends incredibly for a 150/160mm bike.

  10. #35
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    Scarlet, kind of yes, but we are talking orders of magnitude here. A 10mm stem is actually 6mm effective so near 70% shorter than a 35, imagine what it feels like to go from a 90mm to a 30mm. But the big problem is seat tube too.
    An XL bike is still 20-30mm shorter than the TT geometry on my bike but I couldn't even stand over it let alone fit a dropper seatpost!
    So in principle your right but just buying a bigger frame doesn't always work, it can but it depends on your shape!

    I can't describe how much difference going to a zero stem makes to how the bike steers and how you weight the front compared to even a 35mm. It's night and day!
    As I mention it may not be for everyone but it's a game changer for me.




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  11. #36
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    Odds are on BOS today...a certain je ne said quoi about the damping..



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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Odds are on BOS today...a certain je ne said quoi about the damping..



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    BOS both ends, then?

  13. #38
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    I think so. Thinking Kirk & Deville.


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  14. #39
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    My head says put the new 36 on it but my heart...agh, it's with the little guy doing his own thing you know...


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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Scarlet, kind of yes, but we are talking orders of magnitude here. A 10mm stem is actually 6mm effective so near 70% shorter than a 35, imagine what it feels like to go from a 90mm to a 30mm. But the big problem is seat tube too.
    An XL bike is still 20-30mm shorter than the TT geometry on my bike but I couldn't even stand over it let alone fit a dropper seatpost!
    So in principle your right but just buying a bigger frame doesn't always work, it can but it depends on your shape!

    I can't describe how much difference going to a zero stem makes to how the bike steers and how you weight the front compared to even a 35mm. It's night and day!
    As I mention it may not be for everyone but it's a game changer for me.



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    I know what you mean, before my Helius I was forever trying to find a large with a long enough reach/top tube. If you went up a size you ended up with something that looked like a farmyard gate just to get the right reach.

    One of the reasons I love my Nicolai is it's individualism. Add to that custom geometry and you get a very individual bike....fantastic.

    I get the forward geometry, I would much rather mess about with geometry than wheel size as the benefits will be much more noticeable.

  16. #41
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    My heart says go Bos at both ends also.

    Something absolutely yummy with Bos kit.....


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    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  17. #42
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    Deville 160mm 650b non TRC purchased...kirk next..


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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Deville 160mm 650b non TRC purchased...kirk next..


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    nice

  19. #44
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    I'm a bit twitch Loamranger...it's new, unridden, but removed from a YT wicked..so I may not get support from BOS if it goes wrong! However it was a bargain so I have a mini war chest in case of a problem...
    In some ways I wish it was ridden as problems tend to surface early.



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  20. #45
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    Pilot, any news on the Vecnum Moveloc?

  21. #46
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    No. Probably the most frustrating part! Had original communication saying May 23rd. Then nothing. I kept watching the shop then suddenly it says end July. They were supposed to let me know. Don't know if they sold out over night or there was a supply problem.
    So I have to use something interim 😔
    Marcel at Nicolainsays it is good once you get used to increments (4) very smooth, easy to assemble and service, No play.

    The benefit is I can determine if I can use a 200mm or only the 170mm with certainty.

    I also have a Kirk ordered now 😳
    Derby rims too but on backorder.
    Probably end of July too so interim wheels also needed!


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  22. #47
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    Amazing spec. Look forward to your review.

  23. #48
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    Ooh update.
    Derby rims shipped, good.
    Kirk delayed due to distributer problems. Bad
    Frame painted, good.
    Chainstays not anodised, bad.
    Frame delayed by 3 Wks overall as CS to be anodised. It then needs to go to Hoshi or custom Decals, then to me...
    It will be worth it and I should have almost everything..
    Might be missing the Moveloc
    Some pics pre and post paint. It doesn't look the length of the forth bridge in the pics...
    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom-imageuploadedbytapatalk1403216014.980418.jpgOrdered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom-imageuploadedbytapatalk1403216025.531349.jpgOrdered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom-imageuploadedbytapatalk1403216182.732572.jpg


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    Last edited by the_pilot; 06-21-2014 at 11:51 AM.
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  24. #49
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    Pilot

    Re: Wide rims like Derby

    There is a current debate on whether or not very wide rims, like Derby's, are a good thing or not. There have been discussions in the MTBR Wheel and Tyre Forum and in Pink Bike about this, with conflicting advice. Some who have tried wide have gone back to normal. Increased rolling resistance was the problem mentioned. Others have said they get loads more grip and wouldn't look back. Not having had first hand exerience of very wide rims myself, I was wondering what your take was on the subject.

  25. #50
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    Ordered: Ion 16 Fwd Geo Custom

    Hmm, well I have experience of wide rims having used Chris Holm 47mm Speedway 70mm, 80mm and Salsa Gordo 35mm. There is undeniably a balance in width/feel and tyre choice makes a big difference.
    Like for like off-road it's proven a wider and softer foot print rolls better as it forms to the terrain but you can go too low if the carcass isn't supportive which also can cause grip and squirm issues. It's a bit like suspension, some effort is required to find the best balance.
    I don't think anyone can deny the grip improvement but it can be overdone with sticky tyres, I've killed myself on a fatty before with sticky tyres.
    It changes the profile of tyres rather than makes them much wider and not all tyres respond well to that in terms of feel which may account for some of the variance in opinion as well as the basic different tyres etc.
    The widest rim I had on a rear with a 'normal' tyre was the 47 but I mainly used the 35mm ext. Gordo which was fantastic with a WTB Weir Wolf 2.5 LT so I'd describe that as a kind of aggressive Small Block 8.

    I'll report back on my experience with the Derby's I've been looking at the Hutchinson tyres but the likes of a rock razer and a Magic Mary could be good. I don't usually have much luck with Schwalbe tho, sidewalls...
    I like Maxxis tyres so perhaps an Ikon rear with a HRIi or Minion front,
    Never tried but heard good things about Conti Black chilli..TK with something fast on the back??


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