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  1. #1
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    Nicolai manufacturer support is thin......

    .....on this Forum.....

    Dave Turner has an almost omnipresence on the Turner board but Karl Nicolai has appeared here a handful of times only.......

    Not only that, but it appears the information requested regarding leverage rates and [reasonably quickly] provided was incorrect

    I'm not asking for a continuous Factory presence, but to comment and assist once a week [or more frequently] would be nice

    It's making me wish I'd held out for the Turner RFX, but the Nicolai quality is hard to ignore, as is the ride quality .

    I simply request better Manufacturer support for the Nicolai fan-base on this Forum please.....

    Comments ?

  2. #2
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    Maybe true re. the forum but my experience during my last order has been fantastic.

    Simon from Nicolai UK has kept me updated almost weekly and during the tweaking of my tailored geometry Karl was a great help and he also promply replied to all my questions.

    I did have some gripes at first with the level of service but imho Simon has turned it around and i'd have to say the service is exactly what i expect - spot on...

    Also i emailed Simon the other day about my frame having black decals when i ordered white and today when i got home, white decals waiting for me!

    As for the leverage rates, they are yet to be confirmed as is the mixup regarding which hole give what travel and exactly what travel the FR/AM have but at the end of the day they look and ride awesome and i'm not quite up to world cup standards YET so its no biggie really!

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  3. #3
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    Here Here....

    I hear you TLR. As I have quoted previously, for the price you pay for a Nicolai, the support from the manufacturer is limited but also the UK importers attitude towards customer care and assistance is nothing short of diabolical.
    As much as I love my Helius, the ride and in fact everything about it, when I am in the market for a new frame, I will undoubtably have either a Turner or a Knolly where the designers/owners take the time to talk to their customers.
    Members on the Knolly forum have had Noel personally sort any issues where as an email to Nicolai UK usually gets a five word reply - if you are lucky. So, we pay the coin for these works of art, how about some positivity in the support?

  4. #4
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    Lorni - I'm with you.
    Derekr - You've just spewed another £2k, so I'd DEMAND customer support in that situation !
    Turner C.S is LEGENDARY......Even Dave Weagle has joined in the act supporting the Turner board regarding the latest development and design.......
    The Nicolai's certainly ride well.....Aesthetically, they're a bit utilitarian and industrial......I'm less interested in looks, more performance orientated, but would like to see more Forum related support, bearing in mind there's a fan base here on MTBR.....
    C'mon Karl - This board deserves your input and attention

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    Lornibear: I hear you and i too had the EXACT same opinion BUT my last order was a complete turn around as i've said above.
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    Agree with Lornibear and TLR - and believe me I have more reasons than most of you to agree with them.

    Glad I also have a Turner DW Spot...

  7. #7
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    True that. Well spoken Lorni, TLR. First hand experience here of what you're talking about. Would be good if Nicolai did on mtbr what they do on the German IBC forums, where Falco is quite active. Seeing that they sell frames outside of Germany as well...

    (oh, and same goes with the manuals, which were available only in German last time I checked)

  8. #8
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    Well, not wishing to slate people personally, but I have the same ideology as TLR on this topic. I have always maintained my gripes with Nicolai UK but at the same time, I am delighted that you are having an improved experience Derekr. For the financial outlay, I would want an importer to jump through hoops, some may equate it to buying a new car where service is all part of the experience (dependant on what you drive of course).

    All I ask for is some customer service - the ability to provide a 'post purchase service' that is on a par with others within the industry. Nicolai bikes are in my opinion - world class and in keeping with that, so should the support network behind it be.

    This is in no way an endless rant or indeed a full frontal assault on Karl or any of the importers, but it's something that is important to me and other Nicolai owners around the world that share a passion for these works of art.

  9. #9
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    Lorni - What I request is a comprehensive attendance on the Forum from the Factory at least once a week.....
    And as I said previously Derekr - You've spewed a further £2k cash in their direction, a free set of stickers is hardly high level C.S !!!

  10. #10
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    TLR - Absolutely! Perhaps Karl & crew should check out Noel Buckley's presence on the Knolly forum.....

  11. #11
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    hey guys, that's in Germany, but Nicolai's has open doors where you can learn many thing, from mecanic to set up and you can also try and see new bikes before the Eurobike.

    There's also a german website (http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=137) where Falco is on.

    I've been working for the french distributor of Nicolai in France. Forum are nice, but it takes a lot of time. I don't know in England, but here in France, there are many events where you can see and talk to someone who will be able to answer to you.

    If you buy a bike just to say you're a good friend of the boss, that doesn't mean much.

    I ride on Nicolai because I want to, because I can have my own geometry on my frame, thing you won't be able to have on a Turner even if you know a guy there.....

    Stay on earth guys !!!! Nicolai, it's a small production, mostly all the market is in germany. Overthere you have the everything. It's up to the local distributor to inform the custmers.

    I've been at Nicolai's factory many times to have infos and more for the French market...

    and last thing, do you knwo how many MTB forum there are on the web ??? come on, it woud take a full time job to be able to answer to all the questions ! I've done that in France on one of the biggest forum, you spend your time on the web ! can't do that.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boozzz
    True that. Well spoken Lorni, TLR. First hand experience here of what you're talking about. Would be good if Nicolai did on mtbr what they do on the German IBC forums, where Falco is quite active. Seeing that they sell frames outside of Germany as well...

    (oh, and same goes with the manuals, which were available only in German last time I checked)
    Maybe their written English isn't "presentable" quality and better left to the region distro, who should be stepping up...

  13. #13
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    a fair point 0007, ruined however by the fact that the Factory have commented here perhaps twice...........
    MTBR is one of the World's largest MTB congregations - Hardly too much too ask for some Factory input !!!

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    no offence to anyone who has posted here, but......

    I have only had good service from nicolai uk. yes the emails were short, but if every morning you had to answer 100 emails then you would probably keep them short.

    as far as i am concerned if i have a question reguarding the frame i speak to my lbs, who then speak to nicolai uk, and so on. the fact that you can email simon is a bonus. i would assume that karl and falco? are really busy, probably more busy then dave turner, the range is twice as big, not including the custom options. I just think some things are unreasonable

    like i said before when i buy an expensive frame, (i have bought 2 nics now) i expect the shop to bend over backwards for me to answer any query i have, then the distributor to bend over backwards for the shop. i wonder how many frames they sell a year? they can not be in touch with everyone. just because i bought an expensive frame i dont expect to be able to have a personal way of contacting the owner of the company. would you expect to be able to speak to the md of rolls royce when you buy one of their cars? no... so why do you expect it here.

  15. #15
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    No offence taken Ian.
    I expect it as they've appeared here previously to douse flames, and Falco is continually apparent on the German Forum[s].
    Why not assist here too ?
    Perhaps the non-German market is less important to Nicolai ?

  16. #16
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    I totally appreciate your point of view Ian and respect what you are saying. From a personal point of view, I find Nicolai UK's support somewhat lacking and this is from personal experience. Others such as yourself have had good experiences and this is indeed to be commended - the issue is contentious and certainly relative.

    I think what we would all like is, as TLR said, a prescence on this forum to answer only the questions that the designer/owner can answer, or indeed a better and more informed service from Nicolai UK - which is completely relative and based on personal experience.

    So perhaps some of us are asking too much from Karl, but the common denominator, the middle man - Nicolai UK, in my opinion, has the most complex link within the chain - keeping all of us the customers happy and content and from personal experience, this is where the improvements should be initiated.

  17. #17
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    So let me pose this question: I see good experiences and absolutely horrible shortcomings when they happen, and then some areas where "could use improvement" is the norm.

    If this is the case, and several are citing other manufacturers, why do you keep going back to Nicolai for more? That's what it looks like to a casual viewer of the forum, and also what likely turns people away from going to Nicolai in the first place. Seeing support being absent for a group of clients, or at the least, in need of major overhaul, plus distribution issues, delays, etc. Companies won't change if the consumers keep going back for second, third, and fourth helpings of nothing.

    If you're brand loyal, the companies don't have to do any work to keep you. You do the work yourself. Such things as those strokes and leverage and all of that. Nicolai knows you're not going to turn in your ownership cards. The bottom line is they don't care, and unfortunately, the consumers have to show that they will be willing to not buy if they are treated a certain way. The only impression I get is that no matter what, you guys will buy again and again.

    Bad message to send to the manufacturer if you want things to change.

  18. #18
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    Interesting words there JC. Of course you are correct. Believe me, I love my FR and I enjoy the 'common ownership' theme within this forum, as I am sure you do within the Turner forum. I saved for ages to be able to own a Nicolai but wouldn't think twice in placing an order for an 'alternative brand'.

    Nicolai knows you're not going to turn in your ownership cards. The bottom line is they don't care, and unfortunately, the consumers have to show that they will be willing to not buy if they are treated a certain way. The only impression I get is that no matter what, you guys will buy again and again.

    Not much more to add to this, it pretty much sums it up!

  19. #19
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    The comparison is also valid in the watch industry, through a German maker by the name of Damasko. They are high end, high quality watches. However, their main business is not making watches. They, like Nicolai, are a Machinebau firm. They make lots of things for others using their fabricating equipment.

    On that note, wait times are sometimes 2-3 years, and this doesn't include ridiculous delays simply because they didn't gear their operation up to make watches because other projects got pushed ahead.

    There should also perhaps be some emphasis placed on what I have learned living in Germany- customer service is next to non-existent across the board, from utilities, to government, to even minimum performances standards for the internet access. Unfortunately, I have found good quality service is strongly in the minority due to a variety of factors in the restrictive German educational and economic system.

    In that light, the cultural differences I've seen is often times questioning how something is done, and then shock because I actually questioned what I was being told. Apparently, this is not what they are used to, and CS departments are not one of the places where money is considered to be made. People don't question things here, are accepting of what they are told, or act defeated and don't even bother and silently protest. Finding out this trait of society and how business is done is completely foreign to me and leaves me with a sense of helplessness because simple problems are resolved with mounds of lies and complete lack of interest for resolution, and they pile up. Things are simply very hard to resolve here, and then I see the contexts of such things as the obviously bad powdercoat from some months ago, to lack of responsiveness, misaligned frames (local rep and local forums), cracks, etc. and that scares me off even more. This is just part of society here. Customers don't seem to be as demanding (and note, "demanding" doesn't mean ones that want some sort of satisfaction are bad, but they are looked at as the plague here), and manufacturers and service providers are not used to being pressed on an issue. I deal with German customer service everyday, and the fallout from the lack of people complaining about poor quality. However, those people experiencing this before me and accepting it as-is are screwing things up for me, and others who are complaining.

    ...not that cultural divides are an excuse or explanation. If you do business somewhere, you play by those rules if you want to stay afloat.

    In the end, it's a bicycle. We buy for different philosophies and feels, but don't buy into a brand. Buy into what they do and how they do it. If they don't do it right, then don't go back.

  20. #20
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    I've bought one second hand Nicolai and two new Nicolai's. All my questions have always been answered either on the phone or by e-mail, both by the UK distributor and the Factory directly. My frames were delivered on time and without any issues. No problems as far I am concerned with customer service.

  21. #21
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    jerky - you raise a valid and familiar point - i once bought a cyclecraft (in the nineties, identified as a premium FS vendor, and german)........
    sh1t customer service and couldn't get bushings so the frame was a write off after 18 months !
    in this instance, i thought nicolai were well established, with a uk distributor and supportive back-up.............
    lol - how wrong i was.........the uk importer is arrogant and somewhat disruptive and the only time the vendor shows face is to douse the flaming the brand is getting due to mis-information and bad technical documentation..........which on receipt turns out to be incorrect once again
    it's an absolute farce tbh, even though the product itself is absolutely first class ! ? !
    i don't know what to make of nicolai........they build fantastically accurate framesets but mate them to mis-interpreted technical detail / information and restrict their broad-basing by remaining vacant in issues such as these ???
    i'd simply like more direct vendor input on this forum, but from what you've said, that;s very unlikely.
    i love the bikes and the options available (derekr's new FR is a point in mind), but the CS is appaling as is the lack of visibilty here

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    Nicolai are present on some of the German forums and I wouldnt say that its disrespectful to the non-german market. I doubt you see dave turner on a UK site or a German one. Besides, Nicolai is a small company and there are loads of forums out there. I agree that support is nice, but I wouldnt say there support is thin for not being on MTBR.

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    I have no gripes so far and hopefully none to come ....... but i can definately say that Noels input in the Knolly forum , not only sells his frames as they sell themselves , but continue to sell to the same persons because of his support .
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  24. #24
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    Also ... the German forum input ?!? Germany has 80 people million max , the rest of the buying is from the other 5.5billion , there are Nicolai in every country on this planet now
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  25. #25
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    Germany has about 83 million people and is the most populated EU nation.

    I don't see too many Nicolais out here. To be honest, I've seen more Nox bikes than Nicolais. I've seen one Nic, and I generally see several Nox's a month.

    In case you don't know Nox, they are former Nicolai employees that left and started their own company. The designs they co-originated are similar, pricing is nicer, handmade in Germany, etc.

    http://noxcycles.com/

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    I think you are missing the point JC ....80-83 ...WHO CARES !

    51% of your EU SPEAK ENGLISH ..... wheres the english manuals ???
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  27. #27
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    51% of your EU SPEAK ENGLISH
    I speak English.

    wheres the english manuals ???
    I don't understand what you mean by that.

  28. #28
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    JC im pointing out a fact that you have just strengthened . Nicolai only have the manuals for their bikes in German language , it wouldnt take a lot of effort to get them "done" in each language where there is a Nicolai dealer ?

    As its only in German and you say that you dont see too many in germany .... basically the manuals are only any use to a handful of people ..... and that handful is not keeping Nicolai afloat . We are ... and we not here on this forum because we ride NOX's.

    You pointed out also that Germany has 83 million and the biggest country in the EU (my 80million was a guestimate) well i had a google at it myself and yes .... germany has 83million but it also said that in the whole of the EU ..... 51% speak english .

    This is not going to help the dealer support as the topic suggests , but its pretty slack IMO that the manuals cant be printed in other languages .... in my case english is the only one that is any use to me.

    All the little things add up to to the complete package.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx
    JC im pointing out a fact that you have just strengthened . Nicolai only have the manuals for their bikes in german language , it wouldnt take a lot of effort to get them "done" in each language where there is a Nicolai dealer ?

    As its only in german and you say that you dont see too many in germany .... basically the manuals are only any use to a handful of people ..... and that handful is not keeping Nicolai afloat . We are ... and we not here on this forum because we ride NOX's.

    You pointed out also that Gremany has 83 million and the biggest country in the EU , well i had a google at it myself and yes .... germany has 83million , but take the whole of the EU and 51% speak english .

    This is not going to help the dealer support as the topic suggests , but its pretty slack that the manuals cant be printed in other languages .... in my case english is the only one that is any use to me.

    All the little things add up to to the complete package.
    And you fail to see the idea outlined above: Nicolai is a fabrication company. They are not exclusively a bike frame manufacturer. They always have other fabrication projects running for other companies. That's what keeps them afloat. It's pretty bold to say "We're the ones keeping Nicolai afloat". That's exactly the attitude looked at as the plague here, and is a big cultural difference. Again, customer service in Germany is nearly next to non-existent, once you get past the lies businesses feed you. There is no expectation of minimum performance here. Actually, sometimes there is, but few actually complain because they know it won't get them anywhere. Get this: you're not keeping Nicolai afloat. The way business is done here is that they can and will lose your business and it doesn't matter. You can go to another company and they will not miss you. This is simply the culture and competition isn't ridiculously cutthroat, especially when lots of things are monopolies anyhow.

    The other thing is you elected to buy Nicolai, and likely will over and over and over again. It's starting to look to me like Nicolai is the company you buy into when you want to whine about how bad you're treated, either by them directly, or by their distribution network. Even better is BOTH!

    In my experience with German customer service, I've gotten nothing but lies, and it's consistent, no matter where I go. No one will admit mistakes, and no one knows how to handle an issue without extreme resistance to make the customer go away, even on legitimately defective goods. I have a lamp in my dining room that's a perfect example. It stopped functioning, and they didn't believe us, so the store was going to send it off to the company for inspection, and if it worked (which they would have made it worked), then we would be charged for it.

    Another example is how all customer service lines are TOLL calls, going anywhere from 20-50 cents a minute, in addition to your own provider's fees. When my internet frequently doesn't work because there are no minimum performance standards, I'm faced with what could be a 50€ call to get lied to and be given no resolution in the end. I've even had proof when I went to the provider's shop that their lies were just that, and they still didn't care, because this sort of thing is just not done here and they don't care if we're lost as consumers. They know to break our contract will cost more than just bending over. This is what you're dealing with in society, though I refrain from particularly targeting Nicolai with this.

    You elected to buy from a company that focuses only on the German-speaking market (which is actually well more than just one country, along with it being the second language for several surrounding countries), so what do you expect? I'm forced to buy everything I have in German everyday. On most items, English isn't even a listed language. Czech, Polish, Nederlandish, and French are.

    And believe me, you don't want an English manual. I have many English manuals from large and even international firms, and they are nothing short of what Japanese Anime gets made fun of, with regard to how they translate, without checking, into English. Just because you have a number of "51%" doesn't mean that this "51%" is native to English, is appropriate to give technical data to in English, or is comfortable in English. Unfortunately, I'm dealing with the other way around. When speaking about technical stuff, one might as well throw whatever introductory English they know out the door.

    So if Nicolai is treating you guys so bad, why then do you keep buying into Nicolai? It starts looking ridiculous. Has anyone ever tried to call Nic direct and speak to them about this?

    If you note, I'm speaking on all sides here. Just because one side has one point right, that doesn't automatically make the other side completely wrong, as you're assuming with your statement about how my statements are further proving things.

    My belief is that there are massive shortcomings on both sides of the fence here, and one being the fact that Nicolai customers give out the message that you will buy and buy and buy again. You also give the message of brand loyalty, which makes it so Nic doesn't have to do any more work to keep you than they already don't.

    The other side of the coin is the fact that you simply don't understand that they are a Fabrication firm. Even their logos say "Maschinebau". They don't need you, nor do they need your business, and that's what I illustrated with the Damasko example above. German culture also doesn't really provide support for the attitude of how they need you and your business. You can go elsewhere and they won't fret over it.
    Last edited by Jerk_Chicken; 04-13-2009 at 01:38 AM.

  30. #30
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    WTF !!!!

    If you think i spent $3500au on a frame just to "whine" about it your a bigger idiot than i already thought.
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    Hey, I'm offering some intelligent discussion and some insight into the issues. If you want to be all emotional and not speak about it intelligently, then the solution could be to not view this thread, or I can add you to the list of the problems on both sides of the issue.

    There's significantly more to read, that addressed your points. The least you could do is continue reading after the second paragraph.

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    I'm very happy with my new frame and have no problems with customer service, I did have in the past but Nicolai UK (Simon) has really turned it around imho. I too in the past considered moving away from Nicolai for my next frame but due to the change in attitude and information provided by Nicolai UK i am now the proud owner of a new frame and i'm 100% happy with all aspects. Hopefully the after sales CS will continue to be as good as the communication i had with them during my order but to be honest due to the quality of the frame i'm hoping i dont need to contact them much.

    It would be nice to have some English documentation but how much would it actually tell you that you dont know? If i need to know something specific i'll ask Dipper and if he cant answer it (Which is unlikely) i'll goto Nicolai direct as Karl has always promptly replied to my emails, could you see the owner of specialized replying to your emails?

    FYI the german Nicolai forum on http://www.mtb-news.de allows direct contact with the factory and they are quite happy to answer in english even though its a german forum.
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    Btw Jerk_Chicken had a look at nox and they are very similar designs, do they ride well i've never seen one before? Do you have one?
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    JC

    Like I said before, I've never had a problem getting info from the Factory....I have spoken to both Volker, Hendrik and Falco on the phone in English and always had a helpful response. The company has been fast to send e-mail responses and copy this to Malcolm at CC in one case. I also think the Nicolai catalogue and website is much better designed and thorough than most other manufactures in this industry.

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    I don't have one. I have a couple dozen closeup photos from Eurobike I never posted, and by the accounts of people I've asked around town, they do ride very well and the company is responsive. It was also noted that the riders could have gone Nicolai, but issues involving wait times and service were the factors, not the price difference, which is relatively small here. More people have experience with Nicolai here, so that's why one hears more of both sides of their CS. The builds were quite impressive, too. They spared no expense on their parts selections, and the small difference in price compared to how they built their bikes (don't forget how much more expensive components run here!) gives me no doubt that they could have owned Nicolais if they really wanted to, along with a host of other brands (mentioned below).

    Competition is also extremely tight here, in contrast to what I mentioned about how a company can afford to lose business. Germany is not very large and populations are concentrated, with large amounts still being devoted to agriculture. This makes such things as the shrinking job markets very competitive and non-lucrative, but on the buying side of things, these companies get the business due to being so populous. Then comes the exports to neighboring countries.

    So in that respect, bike companies are a dime a dozen and many are innovating different things. On one side, you have Canyon, which is getting huge, and offering top shelf stuff and in-house designed frames for great pricing. On the other side, you have companies like Lapierre, whom I have a great respect for. They have great designs, innovative builds and tubing profiles, and a good company backing them in Germany. Then there's Liteville and countless others to many to mention. The competition is fierce, and so is the interpretation of the mountain bike here.

    Quote Originally Posted by ryates
    JC

    Like I said before, I've never had a problem getting info from the Factory....I have spoken to both Volker, Hendrik and Falco on the phone in English and always had a helpful response. The company has been fast to send e-mail responses and copy this to Malcolm at CC in one case. I also think the Nicolai catalogue and website is much better designed and thorough than most other manufactures in this industry.
    So then that's it. I addressed above that maybe people should call, should they need help that bad. They are available. On that note, it's also the distro's job to help in the info chain as well.

    I only wanted to offer some possibilities of differences to the people that might be having a problem. To those, then perhaps some tips should be offered on how to get their level of satisfaction. My experience living in Germany is to lower expectations

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    I have had a few issues, one of which is currently running with Nicolai. As it goes, after an e-mail to Volker and cc'ed to Karl, I got a short, but sufficiently apologetic and personal reply from Karl this last weekend that has given me the confidence that the issue I'm having will be resolved to my satisfaction (and BTW, I'm talking about a genuine problem rather than a more minor CS issue). And to be fair to Nicolai UK, having spoken with Mike, I don't believe these guys are going out of the way to be a PITA or not support the product. They might not always get it right in the eye us discerning Nicolai customers ; ) but I think they are trying.

  37. #37
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    A Fair Point.......

    Nick-o-lai - It is indeed very pleasing to know that your situation is being resolved both quickly and in a profesional manner and indeed that Nicolai UK has had a successful role within the process.

    JC - You also make good points, particually being on the front line, so to speak, in Germany. I lived in Paderborn for four years and often thought German customer service very different to that that we are used to within the UK. My experience comes after purchasing a new car from a so called 'prestige' manufacturer. Therefore your comments that are based on experience, to myself are understandable and recognisable.

    As this thread has progressed I feel my initial gripes now seem somewhat insignificant as others tell of their positive experiences. Perhaps we expect more, and in that I mean the justification of our hard earned cash. As I have mentioned previous, the topic is highly contensious and certainly relative. From a personal perspective, JC has a valid point - 'if you are unhappy, then look elsewhere', however by human nature, some of us are 'brand loyal', if this is the case then you should perhaps bite the bullet and just enjoy your purchase.

    As I have stated previously, I love my FR and am now in a very fortunate position to have a 'do it all bike' so unless I enter into the realms of world class DH, this bike is all I need, but personally, I will always keep an open mind when in the market for a new frame.

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    Did you get the support you paid for? It sounds to me like you all did.
    Anything else is nice but it's unfair to expect it.
    Maybe they are happier on the german forums and don't have the time to go on others.
    I would think it's wise to support your main market.
    The time spent on posting on other forums is worth $$. Who wants to pay it?
    Personally, I would really not want to support a small company on this forum. Far too many idiots, guys acting "odd" and getting away with it and all sorts of silly things which can cause issues. Wouldn't take many well intended comments to do a lot of harm, especially if you are not a native English speaker.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx
    it wouldnt take a lot of effort to get them "done" in each language where there is a Nicolai dealer ?
    Translations are not exactly free either, unless you go for google translations and accepted all the ridicule and loss of credibility that would follow

    A Distributor doing the translations would be most likely to get the bike terminology right. They'd just have to understand the original and be able to write their own language correctly.... and of course get it into a presentable format. A few thousand Dollars/Euros in software and time should do it.

  40. #40
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    i love my nicolai - it's a real trail bruiser - however, all i request is support - possibly nicolai UK should consider supporting this site then ?
    or nicolai usa ?
    i'm not brand loyal, but i'm dealer loyal.
    my dealer can get lots of boutique and shiny kit. perhaps i'll buy something shinier and more exclusive next time.
    i hear what jerky says and it concerns me, but i see his point in true focus here now - no input from any nicolai representative, thus concurring my original point.
    i wonder what'd happen on singletrackworld ?

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    TLR give them a chance it is the easter bank holiday weekend. You posted the thread on bak holiday friday and yet by bank holiday monday you expect a reply. how does that work?

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    Yep, in Germany, it's a four day weekend. Everything is closed here today, as well.

  43. #43
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    fair point ian - not looking for an answer, just support when necessary - eg : derekr's simple post about bolt sizing.

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    In all honesty I only realised the reason why they had not replied when i wondered the same thing this morning.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    about bolt sizing.
    That reminds me of another possible cultural difference:

    At least in my corner of Europe, it is pretty rare for people to buy a frame and then build it up themselves.
    - mostly, people buy complete bikes. They are such good value for money, compared with buying everything separately.
    - if you buy a frame, you let a shop worry about building it up. Or at least you let a shop do everything that requires "special" tools.

    --->>> so the shop is the contact point you need/want

    From hanging around MTBR, I get the feeling that the English/American way is to build it up yourself and go straight to the factory about every detail.

  46. #46
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    Perttime - I hear what you are saying. There are many benefits from building a bike and sourcing components as well as the negatives - the main one being cost and support. When building your bike you do indeed need support, whether it be from the LBS, importer or indeed the manufacturer, which when in the case of Nicolai where the majority of riders build their own bikes, there is a requirement for advice and support to efficient and comprehensive.

    Thankfully the internet provides a valuable tool which expedites global communication and in particular forums such as MTBR where people have a common identity, so why not use this medium to it's fullest advantage?

    Just thinking out loud - Where in Europe are you from buddy?

  47. #47
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    I'm in Finland, and don't have a Nicolai myself: it is one of a handful of brands that I am keeping an eye on....

    German (shop?) brands have made an invasion here in the last few years: great prices on a wide range of bikes. One LBS owner/Distributor told me that he had dropped Yeti, because "nobody" was buying frames when there are such good complete bikes available for so little money.

  48. #48
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    Hi All

    An interesting thread for sure...

    I dont wish to come across biased at all.

    I have 4 Nicolai's, to many for sure. LOL... My first Nicolai I had a 7 month wait, with loads of issues, none of these however were to do with Nicolai. I was just on the phone with Falco and Karl around 10 minutes ago, had some questions about a little project I am working on (Mwah ha ha ha)... I am digressing...

    When I worked hard with many of you to get a Nicolai forum on MTBR, I approached Falco to give support. Falco was straight up with me that he would love to, but at present his time is dedicated to the German Forum. While it doesnt help us, I appreciated the honesty... A good many MTBR members thought the Nicolai MTBR forum would fail. Again maybe biased, but I am happy with where things are at in regards to the Nicolai MTBR Forum... I guess Nicolai need to proportion there time and efforts where it is most needed. Hard to take I know, cause it annoys me that there is not more of a presence on here by Nicolai....

    I dont think we can compare the work and effort that big Noel and Dave Turner put in on MTBR. They are top notch, but it is slightly different. Nicolai have 25 different frames and build a total of 2000 frames per year. Again I am not being biased, trying to get a logical view on the topic.... Noel and DT use MTBR for marketing and selling frames, which I think rocks. However lets be fair, how many Turner owners does the Turner MTBR forum really represent, 20 Max? It doesnt constitute the majority of Turner owners...

    JC brings up some valid points in his posts, we as cyclists, what ever genre or type we dont need to purchase Nicolai frames. I guess I could put it up against Leica camera's. People buy Leica because the subscribe to the thought process and culture of Leica. I feel this is the same for Nicolai...

    How many of you have sent Karl & Falco an email requesting the benefits a little more time on the MTBR Nicolai Forum would do. Sometimes it is about how the message is told etc etc...

    Just some thoughts, am tired form flying from the US of A this morning.... Later alligators....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    That reminds me of another possible cultural difference:

    At least in my corner of Europe, it is pretty rare for people to buy a frame and then build it up themselves.
    - mostly, people buy complete bikes. They are such good value for money, compared with buying everything separately.
    - if you buy a frame, you let a shop worry about building it up. Or at least you let a shop do everything that requires "special" tools.

    --->>> so the shop is the contact point you need/want

    From hanging around MTBR, I get the feeling that the English/American way is to build it up yourself and go straight to the factory about every detail.
    Hi all.
    In my case, i let my lbs worry about the buid it up. He`s a pro in that area, and I`m just "wannabe-biker " so i let the pro do all the building. My lbs had sold the frame only, but he offers me a good deal to whole paggage.
    The main reason was--> i don`t have those specialtools for headset etc. The parts i spec`d myself naturally.

    TLR--> in every cases about the bike, i turn to my lbs who have a contact to nicolai factory and it`s crew
    Falco or Karl present here once and a while would be nice
    Last edited by jiipee; 04-14-2009 at 07:09 AM.
    Sorry my poor language, big fan for the google translate.....

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiipee
    Hi all.
    In my case, i let my lbs worry about the buid it up. He`s a pro in that area, and I`m just "wannabe-biker " so i let the pro do all the building.
    The main reason was--> i don`t have those specialtools for headset etc. The parts i spec`d myself naturally.

    TLR--> in every cases about the bike, i turn to my lbs who have a contact to nicolai factory and it`s crew
    Falco or Karl present here once and a while would be nice

    Indeed, I let my LBS deal with the build, however I can see from where TLR is coming from, the web opens things up and to some people actually building the bike is the fun bit, and with such an expensive frame I can see why he would feel that better support is needed.

  51. #51
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    Hmmmm.....

    Perttime - That indeed is a quandry for a LBS. To have to drop a fantastic brand such as Ysti, as there is no market for frames - perhaps it's a sign of the times and by that I mean globally, people demand value for money in turbulant times and lets face it - mountain biking is certainly not inexpensive any more. To quote a phrase - 'more bang for your buck'!

    Whafe - I was not an active participant to the Nicolai forum when you and others did all the work in getting the forum up and running, but was a member of MTBR.

    I approached Falco to give support. Falco was straight up with me that he would love to, but at present his time is dedicated to the German Forum. While it doesnt help us, I appreciated the honesty...

    I am with you on this......Having not known this prior, I too now appreciate Falco's honesty with regard to the forum.

    I guess Nicolai need to proportion there time and efforts where it is most needed. Hard to take I know, cause it annoys me that there is not more of a presence on here by Nicolai....

    Your statement here is bang on the money. It bears some correlation to the points that JC brought up regarding German customer service. It seems as though Nicolai hold a higher regard for the German forums, and when I make that statement, it is based purely on those that can converse both in word and on paper, the German language. This is the main restriction that prevents many of us being part of the Nicolai link.

    Perhaps as a sign of solidarity and and an effort to cease my moaning on the topic, I should take a crash course in German - I knew I should have made more of an effort within the langauge department whist at school - things like this always come back and bite me on the arse!

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianpinder
    Indeed, I let my LBS deal with the build, however I can see from where TLR is coming from, the web opens things up and to some people actually building the bike is the fun bit, and with such an expensive frame I can see why he would feel that better support is needed.
    Ian i`m with you. Hope things get better way
    Sorry my poor language, big fan for the google translate.....

  53. #53
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    and HOW LONG does it take to determine correct leverage rates and travel availability, even though you've built and sold frames ! ? !

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    and HOW LONG does it take to determine correct leverage rates and travel availability, even though you've built and sold frames ! ? !
    TLR - Understand the frustration, can you send to me by PM the main questions you are asking, I will make contact directly with Nicolai and see what I can find out.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx
    Also ... the German forum input ?!? Germany has 80 people million max , the rest of the buying is from the other 5.5billion , there are Nicolai in every country on this planet now
    no offense but that's non sense... 90% of the prod is being sold in Germany.. No offense again, but what pays Nicolai is in Germany, so that's why the marketing is there....

    sounds very "US"to think english is the main language so let's just see the english website....

    as far as I can see here 90% of the people are Brits.... doesn't sound the world to me.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0007
    no offense but that's non sense... 90% of the prod is being sold in Germany.. No offense again, but what pays Nicolai is in Germany, so that's why the marketing is there....

    sounds very "US"to think english is the main language so let's just see the english website....

    as far as I can see here 90% of the people are Brits.... doesn't sound the world to me.
    Let us all not get in a pissing match here....

    I agree, the largest customer base is in Germany for sure. I am thinking that next would be England maybe.... There is a great presence on here by peeps from the UK, I wouldnt think 90%, anyways, that is not important.

    As I stated, how many have actually written to Karl or Falco and expressed your concerns. Got to try other avenues at times if the same thing is not working...

    I know for a fact that the topic of more information in English is tabled often in the world of Nicolai... It will happen am sure....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  57. #57
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    As I said, I used to work for the French distributor of Nicolai and even in business Kalle doesn't really answer quickly, so there's no way you'll find him on the web. They are Germans, they work differently as we all are different. US brands might be interested on being on the web, Kalle just want to be efficient in making his bikes, that's his choice, he's an engeener, not a people person.
    Falco might be on, but he's already taking time for the german sites.
    That's about all we'll have from Nicolai.

    After as far as news imputs stuff like that, Kalle thinks it's up to the local distributor to do the marketing. He's doing the business in Germany and that's it. Up to the UK dealer to be better and same for other distributors. I've met him 2 years ago at the open doors, he's a young person (the uk distributor) but he's website has already lots of infos, better than many others. (and I don't think UK is the 2nd market, as far as I heard, it's asia)

    It's good to be able to tune your bike as you wish, but let's keep our feet on the ground, we're not world cup racer. I know Joris Bigoni very well. He's living near by. I had his father on the phone yesterday. He still has only one bike for the season and he didn't recieve yet the Sram dotation. So let's cheer up and nstead of arguying about the presence or not of someone from Nicolai on this website, let's enjoy the fact that Nicolai makes wonderfull bikes and if you're still not please, remember they can do tailor made and with that if you're not still pleased... well stop ridding

  58. #58
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    LOL - Buy tailor made and the problems are exacerbated !!!!
    Poor Derekr knows all about that

  59. #59
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    woa, that's a weird thread there...

    I've read it all for once. Let me tell you there's a lot of crap in it. Many people talking about thing they don't know. weird but usual !

    MTBR is a US website. As far as I can see adds are in $$$. Therefor it's not in Nicolai interest. No offense, but how many people are touch by this website.... a very small % of the riding community.

    Think out of your shell.

    Nicolai is a GERMAN brand. They deal with customer service in GERMANY.

    for the other countries, there is a distributor in each on them dealing Nicolai. It's up to them to do a good job. Here it's US and UK, up to them to do the job!

    You're not pleased, go somewhere else, what can I say !

    I know pretty much everybody at the Nicolai's factory. I had breakfast with Kalle and all his familly. I've been out with all the staff, thinking and saying they don't care about riders outhere is totally absurd and false !!!! They are all passionate and it's not the pay check that makes them stay !!!

    I'm gona repeat myself, but for Nicolai and mostly all the brands, (I've been working with a lot of them) it's up to the nationnal distributor to deal with the media, adds, market press etc.

    If you can not understand that, well, it's pretty much over. Try to go a but further than your own belly !!!!

    Turner is a US brand on a US website !

    Do you have people for LaPierre, from Sunn, from Mondraker, from Vario, from Rage Bicycle, from Duncon and other non US UK brands here ????

    give me a break guys ! go and cry somewhere else !!!!

  60. #60
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    As an (interested) outsider looking in...

    I'm currently a Turner owner in the UK. I'm looking for a new bike, and a Helius AM could fit the bill. By the time I've specced what I want (esp a sensibly slack h/a) I'm going to end up with a VERY expensive frame.

    I'm a pretty decent wrench so, the only bike shop involvement will be the frame purchase.

    One of the joys of owning my Turner has been that when I've had problems (and there have been a couple) I've not had to go through a shop, then a distributor, then to Turner. I've shortcut the whole process - an email to Gregg or DT, usually answered in a couple of hours (despite the time difference) and new parts on my desk within 3 days. Usually with no charge - anything to keep their product running. The really impressive feature? I didn't even buy the frame new!

    So looking at the new frame. I want a frame that's light enough to do 35, 40 mile rides on one day yet tough enough to take 10' drops on the next. At that point, failure is a distinct possiblity, so I *need* to know the back up is good. The last thing i want is emails to vanish into the ether, phone calls to go unanswered, and I *REALLY, REALLY* don't want long waits to get new parts.

    So that all has to be factored into the buying process. Now the only real way to get feedback on how manufacturers handle their customers is through forums like this, and it's interesting getting the vibe off the different boards. None of them have the same positive feel as Turner. Ventana is pretty good. Intense and Santa Cruz a bit mixed. Nicolai can bedownright miserable*. When the product is good, it's great. When there's an issue it seems to drag on and on and end in a lot of animosity. That's not anything I really want to get involved in. Nicolai go back to being off the list.

    As a side issue - JC any more info about those Nox frames? Geometry especially. The link on the site is broken for both of the FR/AM models. Price and features look good though, although I'm a little unconvinced by the 160mm travel version having a 190mm shock - that implies a pretty high leverage ratio, which is one thing I'm trying to get away from.

    * and lets not mention Ellsworth

  61. #61
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    There are a few niggles with my frame re. rear tyre/seat tube clearance but Nicolai are on the case and are commited to resolving the matter ASAP which is good enough for me!
    Visit - www.gravity-sports.co.uk - Exclusive high end MTB Products

  62. #62
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    What happened to your frame, Derek?

  63. #63
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    all the Fr are like that, it's a choice, short chainstay and small tires.

    The only way to mount a bigger tire, is to make the chain stay longer.

    As far as as shortening circuit, ya that's the fashion right now. Thing is, when you're a small company, you don't have thousand hands arms and people to answer specially to you and just you.

    that doesn't work for you, well, you just don't know what you're missing.

    I've been handling the warranty service for several brands.... never been busy with Nicolai, except for bearings. Can't say that from other brands.

    it's up to you, you know what "artisanal" means, That's your choice. You can go for Kraft diner or go for something straight ou of the farm. I know what I like, that's the most important.

    For every brand, you'll find people saying, I had problem with the customer service, this broke this didn't work. Really easy to find unhappy people.

    check the german website and see how many riders are so pleased.

    I know the market in France. What I could say is "once you go Nicolai, you stay Nicolai". The quality, the product, the fact you can build what you want, here it's working well and you could ask any Nicolai's owner, they wouldn't change !

    That's all.

  64. #64
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    I ride since 1981 and Nicolaï represent for me the ultimate passion for MTB.

    I think that if you have some question about a frame ask to your shop, it's his job to have technical information for you.

    I have a shop in France and i'am able to give answer to customers, it's my job and i'm not just a mailbox!!!

    Ask to your shop!!! they have answers for you if you have questions and let Kalle make his job make great bikes for our pleasure!!!

    (excuse me for my english )

  65. #65
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    as a former Turner owner, I feel the same way as Jon Edwards - I received PHENOMENAL service from Turner and their importer directly.
    i guess this level of CS is unusual then, from what I'm reading, and Europeans accept less consequent to location / proximity and simply being European - A POOR EXCUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    oh - 0007 "I know pretty much everybody at the Nicolai's factory. I had breakfast with Kalle and all his familly. I've been out with all the staff, thinking and saying they don't care about riders outhere is totally absurd and false !!!! They are all passionate and it's not the pay check that makes them stay !!!"

    no bias there then ? LOL

  66. #66
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    might be the difference in the way we're living, some people drive on the left some on the right.
    Some might be in Europe but still use ££££

    we're different, and my guess is Germany and France are realy close because not being able to talk to Kalle is not an affair. We have shops, Cyril has one and he's really good and can answer any question. I used to be in the loop. Lately I took some vacacions but I'll bounce back. I'm meeting Kalle in Germany during the Winterberg race.

    I mean, what more can you ask. You have pretty much all the info on the website, you even have some video's now on the web to service your bike (made by Nicolai) It's a company that open their doors once a year to everybody. You can find them easily at the Eurobike. I don't see where's the problem.

    I love Turner's bike, the DHR is a wonderful piece, still, I wouldn't get one, cause I can't have my own geometry. But if there's so many brands, it's because there's so many different tasts ! luckily not evrey one rides on a Nicolai !

  67. #67
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    So, 0007, I guess the Netherlands is more similar to the UK than to Germany then, ey? And if you ask this Nicolai owner, I will never even consider buying Nicolai again.

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    why boozzz?

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    you know what, it's a free world, think and do whatever you want. In France we have a sentence saying " the grass seems always greener elsewhere" understand it as you wish.
    You're not pleased, and you have the right. Then it's good and that's it, go else where.

    I mean here I feel like if Nicolai was on trial. Subject guilty on not being present on the website MTBR, sanction I won't buy one !

    sorry no more comments, this is childish !!! I feel like when I was 15 !

    It's past midnight here, I'm tired. Think whatever you want about Nicolai. I absolutly don't care.

  70. #70
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    To be honest due to the ability to tailor my frame choices i wouldnt consider anything else. Even if you have an issue surley its fixable?!?!

    I think Nicolai's are awesome frames and the options are mind blowing....

    Just my 2p worth.
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  71. #71
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    Jon Edwards,

    I don't see a reason for you ruling out a Nicolai. They are extremely well built, ride better than a Turner 5-spot (I used to own one), have good web information, you can call Simon or Mike at the UK distributor or drop them an e-mail and they usually reply straight back, or contact the Nicolai Factory directly and speak to anybody there....and they all seem to speak English and are very knowledgeable.. Nicolai bearings are much stiffer and easier to maintain. There is a good deal of adjustability built into the designs and a wide choice of options like 1.5 h/t, 12mm rear axles, Rohloff etc,...and they come in loads of kool colours, plus a 5 year warranty. So what's the issue?

  72. #72
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    I live in Mexico, so I don't have any dealer support of my last two bikes (Titus and Knolly), but I've had good support whenever I've had a question or two by emailing the contact link on the manufacturer page.

    I think that expecting to have the owner of the company is not necesary and really not something that should be a deal braker (that's my personal opinion), but having someone answer your questions and, if required, support if you have a problem is. If Noel or CC (when I had some questions, CC was still at Titus) couldn't answer, someone else did with the right information that I needed. If Titus or Knolly had a distributor here in Mexico, I would expect that whatever questions were handled by the distributor rather than ranting that I couldn't talk with the owner. Unless the local distrutor sucked and didn't support, I don't see why the owner should have an active presence on every major board. Unless you want him stuck in a computer and telephone answering any email and phone calls regarding any questions going from simple questions that could have been answered by the salesman to questions that could be handled by some techs and leave the owner to send his time on other issues.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0007
    you know what, it's a free world, think and do whatever you want. In France we have a sentence saying " the grass seems always greener elsewhere" understand it as you wish.
    You're not pleased, and you have the right. Then it's good and that's it, go else where.

    I mean here I feel like if Nicolai was on trial. Subject guilty on not being present on the website MTBR, sanction I won't buy one !

    sorry no more comments, this is childish !!! I feel like when I was 15 !

    It's past midnight here, I'm tired. Think whatever you want about Nicolai. I absolutly don't care.
    Thanks for the chuckle first thing in the morning

    But really, this is a good, civil discussion going. If you're only going to take one side seriously, and fight against the other, then just unsubscribe and leave. Your experience as a distro doesn't nullify the experience some are having as customers.

    I have to say, your presence in this thread is eerily making it like threads on the Ellsworth forums. It's no big deal if consumers, on the other side of the table have differing opinions. You said it and I said it: they can go elsewhere. Nicolai will do well without their business and troubles. That's the beauty of their business model

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryates
    Jon Edwards,

    I don't see a reason for you ruling out a Nicolai. They are extremely well built, ride better than a Turner 5-spot (I used to own one), have good web information, you can call Simon or Mike at the UK distributor or drop them an e-mail and they usually reply straight back, or contact the Nicolai Factory directly and speak to anybody there....and they all seem to speak English and are very knowledgeable.. Nicolai bearings are much stiffer and easier to maintain. There is a good deal of adjustability built into the designs and a wide choice of options like 1.5 h/t, 12mm rear axles, Rohloff etc,...and they come in loads of kool colours, plus a 5 year warranty. So what's the issue?
    +1
    I agree
    So what's the issue?

  75. #75
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    There are alot of new people joining thus thread and I feel i should clear something up from them.

    The original point of this thread was discussing whether we should expect a stronger presence from nicolai, either the owners, or the distributors, on the forum

    So for all the new people......

    Nicolai support does exist, and imo its very good. I snapped my linkage lasst year and a new one was with me in 3 days no questions asked. I had questions about customising a frame and simon answered them on the same day. He also answered the next 5 stupid pointless emails I then sent him straight away.

    The main issue with this thread is the support is not avaliable through this forum. Jon Edwards you rule out not buying a Nicolai as support is not on a forum, is it really so hard to email the ****ing company. Jesus, why do people think logging onto a forum and posting a problem like they have snapped their linkage a better solution then dropping the company a ****ing email. Or even calling them.

    Let me guess, you have a problem on your turner, you log on to the forum, you create a new thread, i broke my turner. DT logs on a replies, then tells you to call him or email him.

    So then you think great he cares I wiill meail him.

    On the other hand when you buy a nicolai,they must assume their customers can call them or email them without being told to do so. I mean grow up.if you buy a car, and it breaks, what do you do, you ring the garage. so you buy a bike, it breaks what do you do....you ring (or email) nicoloai.

    TBH nicolai probably don't want numpties owning their bikes, and are probably glad that people who need personal reasurance from forums don't want to buy their frames.

    Rant over

    If you are capable of emailing companies without being told to then Nicolai are great, strong well built, imo gorgeous to look at, very customisable every colour under the sun and rare. (tho they won't be for long at the rate me a whafe are buying them) and good customer support.

    TLR and Lornibear you have pm
    Last edited by ianpinder; 04-17-2009 at 12:09 AM.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianpinder
    why boozzz?
    Had one of the worst, if not the worst, customer service experiences I've ever had. From both Nicolai UK and Nicolai Germany. For me they've completely blown it. And it's not about support on this forum, but about actual support for my bike.

  77. #77
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    Not to question you, haha but purely out of interest......Was that about the travel issue with your frame, I thought that got sorted by emailing falco with an apology for the feck up or was it something totally different.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianpinder
    Not to question you, haha but purely out of interest......Was that about the travel issue with your frame, I thought that got sorted by emailing falco with an apology for the feck up or was it something totally different.
    Nope, that was just somewhat stupid. This had to do with a faulty powdercoat on my frame.

  79. #79
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    I thought they re-painted it?
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  80. #80
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    They did, eventually. The latter being the big word. The process that led up to it eventually being repainted wasn't nice, at all. But I think enough has been said in the original thread.

  81. #81
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    The process leading upto is what my lbs support is for, lol

  82. #82
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    The main issue with this thread is the support is not avaliable through this forum. Jon Edwards you rule out not buying a Nicolai as support is not on a forum, is it really so hard to email the ****ing company. Jesus, why do people think logging onto a forum and posting a problem like they have snapped their linkage a better solution then dropping the company a ****ing email. Or even calling them.

    Let me guess, you have a problem on your turner, you log on to the forum, you create a new thread, i broke my turner. DT logs on a replies, then tells you to call him or email him.

    So then you think great he cares I wiill meail him.
    Hold your horses....!

    I'm slightly once bitten, twice shy here. I used to have an Intense Uzzi SL, which used to break assorted minor parts pretty randomly. Importer support was simply non-existant.(they didn't do email, and if you phoned up nobody knew what you were talking about and they didn't have spares stock anyway). Both emails and calls to Intense USA went unanswered. I ended up making my own mech hangers out of 1/4" steel plate, and getting a batch of main pivot bolts knocked up by a local engineering company to keep my bike rolling. When it worked it was great, but the overall ownership experience of a) not knowing when it was going to leave me stranded and b) how I was going to get it sorted left me more than a little cold.

    I've never cried wolf on the Turner forum. Shortly after I picked up my Turner, about 4 days before I went on holiday, I discovered I'd got a cracked disc mount. The UK guy was on holiday, so I dropped Turner an email, not expecting anything (or at the very least a pretty hefty bill). I had a reply within the hour, and within 2 had been told that a new seatstay was in the post, foc. It arrived on my desk 3 days later from Cali. I was gobsmacked.

    Since then, requests for different rockers (which I paid a very reasonable £30 for), replacements for those when they developed stress risers (free) and then new downtube stickers (2 sets sent free, again I was expecting to pay for) have all been handled in equally efficient fashion. It's an experience that's VERY easy to get used to.

    When you contrast that to some of the tales that get told on here (even Derek's new Helius FR issue I find pretty shocking), it makes me pretty damn wary...

    It's not so much forum support from Nicolai that's needed as better all round support - more tales of how amazingly quickly problems get solved - which means that the general feeling on this board is of all-round pride of ownership and the happy glow of people who can just get on and ride their bikes, no matter what.

    (Oh and FWIW, I should be having a spin on a H.AM this weekend, so we'll see)

  83. #83
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    If only my point was a concise and well thought through as that. I can see where your coming from, but this thread was heading down the wrong road, and therefore something had to be said.

    I can not argue with turner, the support does seem exemplery, but compair nicolai with any other bike company then they are not lacking, e.g. cove (some whos fs frames cost the same as nicolais), it took me 4 weeks to get a new mech hanger for my gspot, a 3 weeks for my stiffee, whilst nicolai only took 5 days.

    yes things are not perfect but nowadays they are good, thats not to say they can't improve, but they are improving.

    I deffinatly agree with you on the subject of Derek's fr so we shall see if that gets sorted.

  84. #84
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    I deffinatly agree with you on the subject of Derek's fr so we shall see if that gets sorted.
    Like you Ian, I am very interested to hear if there has been a resolution to Dereks frame

  85. #85
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    Here's my daily experience with German customer service:

    I just started a university course that will last through the summer. It started Tuesday and we were told to buy our textbook from a particular chain, which is also the dealer for the university. I go to the one near my home, as it's more convenient, the website lists it as orderable, etc. They tell me they will order it and it should take 1-2 days, generally the next morning. No big deal, I need it only beginning Monday. I was told I'd get a call back the next morning whether it came in or not. Of course, I got no phone call, and really, I should be used to it. In Germany, if someone says they will call you back about an issue, that means they won't be calling back.

    I show up yesterday, no book. They finally find the order form, and it's marked they attempted to order it right after I left, and were told it's not possible and I have to go to the main store for the university. Problem is they are out of stock and have to order it for 5-6 days from now.

    Excellent.

    I learned that this is typical German customer service. Had I known right away, I could have had the book in hand, or will at least spend fewer days without it. This is a chain like Barnes and Noble and the one by my home is not authorized to order the book.

  86. #86
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    I'm sorry my countrymen dissapoint you on a regular basis!

    But come on JC, don't you think that could have happend in other countries too ?!


    Let's not let slip into total off-topic here...

    If I remember correctly this forum startet off as a Nicolai-fan/enthusiast/owner/...-forum to have a place for the growing Nic-gang worldwide and not as a official support forum, like other manufactures on mtbr.

    Another thing: TLR mentioned something about factory presence once a week. You know how it is, once a week won't do it rather quickly. Than other national forums, e.g. from Italy, France, Spain, ... want their own Nicolai-Forum with regular manufacturer input. Where do you draw the line ?

    Like ianpinder already said: why not write or call Nicolai directly ?! I don't understand that!

    Also: don't think Falco is omnipresent at the moment on the German-nicolai or that "we" get some kind of first-class-treatment compared to the rest of the world.

    All I can say from the experience on the German board for several years now, that if customers had a problem or needed parts, it was taken care of with "total" customer satisfaction. Not for nothing Nicolai has a reputation for being one, if not THE, customer friendliest/most orientated brand in Germany or on the German market.

  87. #87
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    But come on JC, don't you think that could have happend in other countries too ?!
    Aside from the utter scams that are part of the economy, this is daily, from my Hausverwaltung, when I have a problem, utilities, telecom, universities, dealership service department, stores that make honoring warranties impossible, HR departments, and so forth. The worst are HR departments and telecom, by far.

  88. #88
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    To chip in my experiences, I found the service from Nicolai in general abit bizarre but they are very good on warranty.

    My initial emails with the UK importer before buying the bike did make me suspicious, they have an interesting manor of dealing with customers to say the least. Can't put a finger on a specific reason, but I'd expect the sack if I spoke to clients with that attitude.

    However the germans are good to deal with, much like the scenario often mentioned with American manufacturers. The importer is there to make money, the manufacturer is the one who needs to be worried about their reputation.

    I had a hairline crack on a frame and was point plank told it wasn't a crack and they showed no signs of taking me seriously. After I applied alot of pressure, (multiple visits to the bike shop an hours drive away), they replaced it. When it cracked in multiple lines in the same area again, they took me seriously and built a custom frame part. Overall that is good service, they just need to handle things differently. I was amazed when told they only entertain warranty if the bike is actually broken, not cracking! I suspect they were fobbing me off.

    Also I find it bizarre that there is no english user manual for my frame, upon emailing Nicolai direct for torque ratings I was told there are none! So I dread to think what would happen if a thread ever stripped and how warranty would be dealt with in that case. Who has ever heard of a £1.3k frame without a user manual?!

    The weird thing is the company image as a whole is very proper and efficient but the back up is amateur at times.

  89. #89
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    Ran over this thread on my off day today, all i wanted was to post up some new nic in Singapore. :/

    Nicolai was never really interested in any promotion or advertising. but they are always ready to answer your Questions. Like what 0007 has said, the GErman way. I believe so since the business ways i encounter( these 2 years) from other German brands that we deal like MAGURA, Grossmanproject are similar. Pride and prestige in their work, quality products are their aim, nothing much else.

    IMO, as what i practice, i do not get Nicolai Germany to get involve in any CS i am or interested to provide to my end users here. Its up to the local representative for Nicolai to provide, as much as they may.

    For example Price competition is very bad here in Singapore. So you must think then who will buy a heavy , long waiting, expensive nicolai here ( helius Am is almost 3 other branding here)??? But the truth is, we have up the nos. of Nicolai Sold recently, almost 300% just because there was better CS and After service. better education of Nicolai products. And not forgetting respond time. Even a simple enquirers.

    Hence i summaries that yes, after service is important, TLR questions/problems have to be answered. But maybe the right source and the right people to ask maybe?

  90. #90
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    It is probably mostly cultural differences here. Americans and Germans are more independent, whereas english guys want someone to hold their hand.

    I don't have a Nicolai yet, but I emailed them in German and Karlheinz personally responded to me within just a couple hours.

  91. #91
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    [QUOTE=Rudt], whereas english guys want someone to hold their hand.IQUOTE]

    i know the English for sure need their hands held when playing the All Blacks.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  92. #92
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    In your dreams whafey my lad!

    [QUOTE=Whafe]
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudt
    , whereas english guys want someone to hold their hand.IQUOTE]

    i know the English for sure need their hands held when playing the All Blacks.....

  93. #93
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    [QUOTE=lornibear]
    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe

    49 Minutes to reel one victim in........

    Sweet Lorni..... Brig on the next world cup.... We may bonk again.... Hope we dont.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  94. #94
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    Game on!

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudt
    english guys want someone to hold their hand.
    im glad i dont fit into that bracket being Irish-come-ozzy ..... or Whafe would be slapping my wrists again So no comment from me this time
    Last edited by ozzybmx; 05-01-2009 at 03:35 AM.
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  96. #96
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    Ozzy B, bring on the comments..... LOL
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Ozzy B, bring on the comments..... LOL

    Nope
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  98. #98
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    Ozzy - you know you want to!

  99. #99
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    Yes .... its killing me but i will refrain ...... there is many english gents here who have been branded by that comment .... i'll just wait and maybe dig in later

    You already know it really pisses me off when non-owners start chiming in when they haven't paid the premium to belong to the club !

    Most times its intellectual idiots practising their internet revised knowledge on sh1t they know f$#k all about , with 14000 posts on every topic on mtbr GRRRRrrrrrrr . nuff said
    Last edited by ozzybmx; 05-01-2009 at 06:13 AM.
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  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx
    Yes .... its killing me but i will refrain ...... there is many english gents here who have been branded by that comment .... i'll just wait and maybe dig in later

    You already know it really pisses me off when non-owners start chiming in when they haven't paid the premium to belong to the club !

    Most times its intellectual idiots practising their internet revised knowledge on sh1t they know f$#k all about , with 14000 posts on every topic on mtbr GRRRRrrrrrrr . nuff said

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