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  1. #1
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Nicolai Helius AM 2008

    thought i'd post some measurements for my medium AM frame ... note (+/- 5mm) accuracy except for the head tube length which should be quite accurate to 1mm.

    20080820 am frame geometry MTBR FORUM.jpg

    BB is 68mm
    Last edited by chinaman; 08-25-2008 at 02:52 PM.

  2. #2
    wyrd bi ful rd
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  4. #4
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    custom made chain stay protector ...

    rear 12mm bolt thru and front 20mm maxle ...

    20080823 building AM - 08 custom stay protector n rear wheel MTBR FORUM.jpg
    20080823 building AM - 09 front wheel MTBR FORUM.jpg

  5. #5
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    Nice!!!

    Looking forward seeing further "birthing" pictures!

  6. #6
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    sweet...congrats on the new ride, chinaman!

  7. #7
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    Looking good! Chinaman, which Lyriks are those?

  8. #8
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by crisillo
    sweet...congrats on the new ride, chinaman!
    cheers cris ... will need to get you over here with the el T.

  9. #9
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinaman
    cheers cris ... will need to get you over here with the el T.
    yessir!

  10. #10
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by NICK-O-LAI
    Looking good! Chinaman, which Lyriks are those?
    they are the coils 110-160 ... they have so far held up ok ... have so far done about 400km in AM terrain and small drops only ...

  11. #11
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    Nice!!! Looking forward seeing further "birthing" pictures!
    cheers Test more to come ...

  12. #12
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    More Birthing pictures ...

    22 32 44 ... thinking about getting a chain tensioner and bash guard any recommendations ... are there any chain tensioner that i will still be able to use 3 rings???
    chain tensioner + bash guard OR just chain tensioner alone ...
    20080823 building AM - 11 cranks MTBR FORUM.jpg
    does using a short cage rear derailleur actually reduces chian skipping?

  13. #13

  14. #14
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    finger food???
    20080823 building AM - 12 controls MTBR FORUM.jpg

    all that is left is to get this baby out for a walk tomorrow and cox it to get over the first few tentative steps ...
    20080823 building AM - 17 done MTBR FORUM.JPG.jpg

  15. #15
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    Chinaman - are you riding around Holmbury tomorrow?? Am around myself from 8am till about 10.30am and would love to see it in the flesh!!

  16. #16
    "El Whatever"
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    China.... that ride is as sick as they get.

    The bike and colours just blow my mind. I'd love a bike just like that one.

    Gorgeous. Great, congrats bro!
    Check my Site

  17. #17
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    Looking gooooooooood!

  18. #18
    searcher
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    very nice. Congrats! Am looking forward to read some ride report , too!
    Kovi

  19. #19
    "Its All Good"
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    looking very very cool indeed, love the stealth black look.... Looking forward to hearing how this puppy rides.....

    Yeah ha.................................. Enjoy
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  20. #20
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    Nice colour scheme chinaman but then I'm biased

  21. #21
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    Chinaman, see Helm for 3 ring chain device, now bought by E13 who are due to relaunch
    soon.

    I like the raking top tube look of the AM. I will look out for you up at Leith Hill, when I get
    going again. Keep us posted about the ride. All the best.

  22. #22
    Drink...sleep
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    Not a fan of black myself, but a very nice bike nonetheless (has to be, it being a Nicolai ). Just shorten those brake cables perhaps for a cleaner look.

    I think 2 rings would be enough for about everywhere for a bike like this. No need for the big ring, unless you're going to do lots of road miles. Put on a bashguard, switch the middle ring for a 36t and install a simple chainguide like the Blackspire Stinger .

  23. #23
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by heihei
    Chinaman - are you riding around Holmbury tomorrow?? Am around myself from 8am till about 10.30am and would love to see it in the flesh!!
    hey ... only got to read this post of yours about 12 hours too late ... dang! ... i was there from 12 to 3pm. will let you know if i am there next weekend ... it was really heavy going today ... i think i might be looking to down size the tyres ... currently running 2.3" michelin mountain dry 2 which weighs about 783 g each ... and mud sticks to it like glue.

  24. #24
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    warp ... i had to have it black ano ... no two ways about that ...

    boozzz ... i know the hose is way too long for the rear ... will have to shorten that sometime ... but i could not wait any longer to get it out ... the front i have managed to tuck it around the lowers but will have to be kept slightly longer due to the fork travel adjustability ...

    cheers kovi


    there has been a lot of different speculation about the rear travel (167mm? 160mm?) and various adjustments and so i thought i give it a go at trying to measure the rear travel at various positioning ...

    20080825 rear shock mounting position MTBR FORUM.jpg

    I prop the bike up on a stand with the distance between the rear shock mounting position at 200mm, with the wheels touching the ground and took a vertical measurement of the axel to the ground ... so quite a bit of error there +/-5mm?

    tried to moved the first position to 143mm, trying to replicate a shock of 2.25" at full compression (2.25"=57mm) ... the rear wheel will hit the tyre ... but with my shock above, i did notice that even though it is a 57mm travel shock, the actual distance of shock compression is less than 57mm ... if anyone has fiddled with their shock and noticed other than this, do let me know if i am right here ... my 57mm coil does not travel 57mm at full compression as well, there is the shock damper in place too restricting further compression ...

    moving the second position to 143mm, the rear axel has moved up by 150mm (leverage of 1:2.63?), at this setting the distance of the first mounting position is more than 50mm and so if you do install a 50mm travel shock at the first mounting position, then the travel is actually less than if you were to use a 57mm travel shock at the second position.

    moving the third position to 143mm, the rear axel has moved up by 135mm ... (leverage of 1:2.37?)

    moving the fourth mounting hole to 143mm from the front mounting hole, the rear axel has moved up by 120mm

    considering that the there is an error of about +/-5mm, it can make a lot of difference, so dont be surprised if nicolai comes out with some other figure ...
    Last edited by chinaman; 08-25-2008 at 02:51 PM.

  25. #25
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    took the bike out for a ride today ...
    weather ... wet and muddy ... climbs and descents and small drops about 1-2'

    20080825 helius am right dirty close 02 MTBR FORUM.jpg

    my only basis of comparison is with the my old helius cc which is a large with a coil and the am having a RP2.

    i did not need the propedal at all ... it climbs really really well ... the rear track very well with no bobs ... but i have not had the luxury to ride a FS with the existance of bobbing ... so unsure how that felt ... i think it has to do with the 4 bar linkage more than anything else. i was not bottoming the rear shock at all but i was only running it at 10-15% sag and the max travel was only approx 65% travel. could be the mounting position as it is on the second hole from the bottom ...

    i thought the seat angle was steeper than my cc but that could be due to me only having 140mm on the front whilst on my cc, i used to have the front forks at 135mm ... interesting to see how nicolai comes out with the spec ...

    it is definitely a lot 'nippier' if there is such a word ... i can throw it around turns with ease ... very well balanced ... possibly because my cc was a large + being built heavy ie too big for me and so the cc did felt more sluggish ... i think a cc needs to be built below 30lbs at least, not more than 28 if possible ...

    it is very stable at speeds on descents. that is all i can say ... ... excellant ride ... very happy with it to put it politely ...

    more tweaking possible ... coil and different positioning ...
    Last edited by chinaman; 08-25-2008 at 02:18 PM.

  26. #26
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    Chinaman, very interesting to read your first thoughts on the ride. I think you could be right about the 4 bar, which makes me wonder how a it'd do with plain old Fox Vanilla rear shock. I can say that with my VPP bike (SC Nomad) you notice the pedal bob when you're up and out of the pedals, and I've had it set with a DHX air and coil (although admittedly the PP works better on the air shock to iron out the bob). My CC uses a DT XM180, which doesn't have any kind of external adjustable damper like the RP23, and I notice no pedal-induced feedback, even on steep climbs out of the saddle.

    Anyway, will be interested to see how she performs with a coil - although the AM looks very sweet there, I can't help thinking a coil would really set things off!

    By the way, how tall are you - interested in the sizing issue.

  27. #27
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by NICK-O-LAI
    ... By the way, how tall are you - interested in the sizing issue ...
    i am 5'10" thereabouts ...

    one thing i noticed is that when you change the rear shock mounting positions, the bottom bracket does not lower or increase in height from the ground unlike the cc or the older FRs with the 4 different positioning.

    reducing the rear travel on the cc actually lowers the bottom bracket ...

  28. #28
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    Your AM full weight?

    Hi, Chinaman, can you tell me how heavy is your complete bike?

    I plan to have a similar set up as you and was wondering if I can achieve about 28lbs.

    My parts list roughly should be:
    Frame size S or M
    Lyrik solo air or Fox 36 RC2
    XTR crank
    Marta SL brakes
    Tune hubs with DT 5.1 (front thru axle, rear QR)

    The rest of you please feel free to make your input on this matter.

    thanks

  29. #29
    "Its All Good"
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    What is your height?

    It will be interesting to see a 29lbs AM.... Am sure it is possible, especially with a small frame, be easier.. I think in my opinion, the slight extra weight to have a maxle rear is so worth it.

    Keep us posted please on your build...


    Quote Originally Posted by carbonloading
    Hi, Chinaman, can you tell me how heavy is your complete bike?

    I plan to have a similar set up as you and was wondering if I can achieve about 28lbs.

    My parts list roughly should be:
    Frame size S or M
    Lyrik solo air or Fox 36 RC2
    XTR crank
    Marta SL brakes
    Tune hubs with DT 5.1 (front thru axle, rear QR)

    The rest of you please feel free to make your input on this matter.

    thanks
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  30. #30
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    Hi,

    although Magura makes good brakes, I don't see that brake with its skinny rotors on a bike like the Helius AM.

    Specialized put them on the first Enduro's for the press and media testbikes 2(?!) years ago and I remember, that every mag loved the bike, but didn't like the brakes.

    Of course it depends on the riders weight and your riding style, but a bike with that much travel, very stiff frame, is capable of so much speed, I don't know if the brakes are capable of killing that speed quick enough.

    Other than that, NIIIIICE built.

  31. #31
    "Its All Good"
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    Interesting topic Testmaen... I totally disagree with your thoughts. I have Magura brakes on all my bikes, that is 2 sets of Marta SLs, 1 set of Martas and 2 sets of Louise...

    A Marta SL with a 180mm rotor on the front, 160mm on the rear with braided hoses all round is a bomb proof brake in my opinion..

    I have a set that was on my Ellsworth Id, went onto my ExoGrid MotoLite and now they are on a Ventana ElCirclon and still rocking it, never had a problem...

    And am not coming from a biased view. People rode those bikes and when I asked their thoughts, they all commented on the brakes first....

    I still think that Magura make the best brakes hands down for MTB

    Sorry to possibly have derailed the thread....



    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    Hi,

    although Magura makes good brakes, I don't see that brake with its skinny rotors on a bike like the Helius AM.

    Specialized put them on the first Enduro's for the press and media testbikes 2(?!) years ago and I remember, that every mag loved the bike, but didn't like the brakes.

    Of course it depends on the riders weight and your riding style, but a bike with that much travel, very stiff frame, is capable of so much speed, I don't know if the brakes are capable of killing that speed quick enough.

    Other than that, NIIIIICE built.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  32. #32
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    That's the difference between people, who write what they ride and people, who write what they read.


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    Hi Whafe, good to speak to you again. Just to recall, you introduced me to bikerbob for the Titus Motolite. I didn't buy it in the end. But I got an Ells Epi instead. Also following your recommendation.

    Based on my riding and terrain, I don't need a bike that's over burly. That's why I went for the Epi and others that are similar. The AM will be something new to me.

    Since you contributed to my query, might as well ask you for your opinion. Again. Do you really think it's possible to get the AM to 28lbs and below?

    My friend told me that in the 2009 Nicolai online catalog the stated frame weight for the AM is 3.3kg which is 7.3lbs. Assuming he's right about that and assuming that the number includes a rear shock then it's almost definitely possible to get it to 28lbs.

    How am I so sure? I used to have a Chumba XCL and Iron Horse MK3 with Fox RP23 and Fox Float R respectively. Both frames weigh about 7.2lbs size S and 17-inch (which is Medium equivalent) respectively.

    I used to have the Fox TALAS fork on both. The final weight came up to about 26.5lbs for both bikes.

    So if I transfer all these parts from my old bike to the AM and use a Fox 36 RC2, do you think it's possible to hit 28lbs?

    Here's the break down of my plan for the AM.

    Frame size S
    Rear shock Fox RP23
    Fork Fox 36 RC2
    XTR crank
    Marta SL brakes with 7 and 6 inch rotors
    Tune hubs with DT 5.1
    Sunline carbon bar
    Thomson stem and seatpost
    CrankBros Candy Ti pedals
    Nevegal 2.35(F) and 2.1 (R) tyres

    Oh two more to ask.

    What do you think of the Monarch rear shock compared to the RP23?

    If you're familiar with MAgura forks, do you think the Wotan is ok or shall go for the LAurin 130mm? I probably will leave the AM in its full travel all the time.

    And if you opt for Wotan, will that be better than the Fox 36 RC2?


    thanks


    carbonloading






    .

  34. #34
    steep fast and loose :)
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    The AM isn't a cross country bike. For ~ 28lbs, look towards the Helius CC, otherwise you're not reaping the AM benefit.

  35. #35
    local trails rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    The AM isn't a cross country bike.....
    What if...
    you want a moderately tough trailbike?
    A cross country frame might not be burly enough but something like the AM should be solid enough to hit some rougher trail sections without worrying about durability, even if you are not exactly a lightweight guy.

  36. #36
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    Chinaman,
    what kind of transparent protection tape are you using in seat-/chain-stays ?

    Thanks in advance!

  37. #37
    steep fast and loose :)
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    durability ? the frame (e.g. the CC) will take abuse, whereas the wheelset won't.
    mate the frame's capability to the component and wheel capability and I'd reckon the AM would come in around 30 to 32 lbs realistically.
    a Mavic XC 717 wheelset on a 160mm trail bike is a bit stupid, to be honest. unless you weigh less than 60kg's.
    get my point ?

  38. #38
    local trails rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    a Mavic XC 717 wheelset on a 160mm trail bike is a bit stupid, to be honest. unless you weigh less than 60kg's.
    I have Mavic 721 on my sturdy SS HT, just to be on the safe side (and the color is right)...

    I doubt very much that I want 160mm. 130mm is about right for what I really do on a bike but I prefer bikes that are on the strong side for that amount of travel.

  39. #39
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    carbon, if you want to keep weight down I think you are better off with 36 Floats than the Wotan.....although the Wotan is a very good fork its going to be over half a pound heavier. I hear that the new 09 Fox's are very good. If you really want low weight then consider the DT Swiss 150mm with bolt-through, one of my dealers rates them but I have no first hand experience. Monarch should be a good alternative to RP23 by all accounts. DT or I9 wheelsets for low weight and good performance.

  40. #40
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    Nevernmind a moderatley tough trail bike, the CC will give you a tough trail bike IMO (and that is based upon giving my CC a good thrashing - it has 717's on Industry nine hubs). I'd agree though, with TLR, that they wouldn't really be at home on the AM - I'd want wide tires for a start, and am not too sure they'd be happy on those kind of rims, nevermind the strength. I'll be sticking with my DT 5.1D's on Pro2's for my new AM, which have taken a hammering on my Nomad with no probs.

  41. #41
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    ... Sorry to possibly have derailed the thread ...
    the term "derailed" is not in my vocabulary ...

    the forum is there for discussions and as long as anyone is happy to add, even though sometimes a topic can quite easily "go off tangent", it is perfect as that is all this site is about ... peeps sharin the same love for 2 wheels, in this instance nicolai ... and discussing about anything that comes to mind and sharing ideas ...

  42. #42
    steep fast and loose :)
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    i'm with Nick-o-lai.
    My AM will be run on DT 5.1D's on Chris King ISO's, 2.4" Nobby Nic's providing grip

  43. #43
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    ... Chinaman, what kind of transparent protection tape are you using in seat-/chain-stays ? ...
    3M helicopter tape

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1m-x-10cm-3M-H...d=p3911.c0.m14

    you need to clean the surface properly and make sure it is dry before you apply the tape ... and a bit of patience to prevent any bubbles from forming

  44. #44
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    ... durability ? the frame (e.g. the CC) will take abuse, whereas the wheelset won't ...
    perttime

    the CC is only a XC frame only in description. It is actually quite sturdy and if you order it with a 12mm bolt thru rear that should stiffen up the rear more

    btw i was using my AM with 140mm fork setting and it was still very well balanced ... and it was still able to climb like a mountain goat except that the legs pedaling it was not up to it ...

    a few more pictures ...

    20080830 helius am right rear 800#643 MTBR FORUM.jpg

    20080830 helius am left rear 800#698 MTBR FORUM.jpg

    with my coil this time ... the titanium spring is on its way ...
    was a bit more difficult to set up ... i think the leverage ratio is higher. the sag was set at about 25% and just loved the "plushness" of a set of coils as compared to my fox air can ... at the end of my ride, the bumper was at the limit (ie must have gone to full compression) but i did not feel that the shock has bottomed out if you know what i mean ... will try with higher pressure for the spv which should help with higher speed compression ...

    20080830 helius am right 02 1024#786 MTBR FORUM.jpg

  45. #45
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    Chinaman, I notice your favourite riding spot is holmburry hill, so I guess you got your Helius AM from head for the hills? If so, I reckon I saw it in the shop the same day I was placing my order for my Ion ST - would have been about 4 weeks ago?

  46. #46
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    Thanks for your inputs Ryates, Lecht and Nick-o-lai. YOu guys have definitely made a strong case about setting up the AM with parts it was designed to go along with.

    After trying lots of log legged XC frames that are lightweight and some burly trail frames that are a bit heavier, I kinda prefer the latter. Keep in mind, though, all the parts are carried over (which are mostly lightweight racy stuffs), except maybe the fork which I normally change.

    Well, I'll see how it goes. It has never been a problem for me to upgrade parts anyway. Hehehe

  47. #47
    local trails rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinaman
    perttime

    the CC is only a XC frame only in description. It is actually quite sturdy and if you order it with a 12mm bolt thru rear that should stiffen up the rear more

    btw i was using my AM with 140mm fork setting and it was still very well balanced ...
    I just figure that being close to 100 kg my trail bike should be stronger than what a 60 kg guy needs. And when I buy a bike I want it to have a chance to live for several years.

    My current FS ride is extreme overkill... and I think an AM might be a more sensible choice. Also, I get the impression that the AM has better standover than other Helius models. I realise standover is not the most important thing but it is still nice to have.

    What sort of tyres are you fitting on your CC's and AM's? I've had Mountain King SuperSonic 2.4 on the hardtail for a while and they do what I need tyres to do on a variety of trails.

  48. #48
    "Its All Good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonloading
    Thanks for your inputs Ryates, Lecht and Nick-o-lai. YOu guys have definitely made a strong case about setting up the AM with parts it was designed to go along with.

    After trying lots of log legged XC frames that are lightweight and some burly trail frames that are a bit heavier, I kinda prefer the latter. Keep in mind, though, all the parts are carried over (which are mostly lightweight racy stuffs), except maybe the fork which I normally change.

    Well, I'll see how it goes. It has never been a problem for me to upgrade parts anyway. Hehehe
    Hi ya Carbon, havnt talked in a while... Hope all is well...

    I think you are making a good choice, as the boys mention the Helius CC is very strong, but that is also relative..... I moved away from the ExoGrid ML for the reason that I didnt feel comfortable jumping off of anything more or less the trail provided, and no am not talking 12 foot to flat drops, just mean the usual lips, jumps most trails provide....

    In riding my FR and seeing a CC in action, i think for certain the AM is indeed going to be a tough tough hard core trail bike, AM bike.....

    I would think that your desired weight of around 28lbs will be achievable for sure. Myself though, I would go for an 09 Fox 36 Talas, the adjustable travel is a great option, I use mine all the time, also go with the Maxel rear, it will bind things in the rear and help with strength and stiffness.....

    My FR is 32lbs and that is a large, so using your small frame and components, it should well be doable... Have a study through the build database...

    The hardest thing about putting an order in for a Nicolai is choosing the frame colour..
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  49. #49
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    Hey Nick, you think you can post a pic of your CC? I haven't seen a built up CC before. Or if there's a link somewhere in this forum, let me know and I'll try looking for it.

    To me the CC just don't look bad ass enough like the burlier Nicolais. Then again I might be wrong.

    A good bro of mine just got his Nonis CC (yesterday) in size XS and it looks the danglies... A damn gorgeous piece of art unlike in the picture in the catalog, which I believe is a large frame.

    cheers

  50. #50
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    I certainly agree with the other comments about building this frame so light. It's completely missing the point and performance will suffer as a result. Mine is now weighing in at 34lb. 32lb is easily achievable without sacrificing performance.

    However, the problem with going to a CC is that you not only loose weight but the geo is different as it's designed for a different style of riding.

    If you want AM geo in lighter package I'd be looking at something like a Cove Hustler. It makes a very sorted trail bike at sub 30lb. Personally I'd still run a 2nd set of wheels as skinny, light wheels ruin these bikes

  51. #51
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    Noted Whafe. Wow! Didn't know your FR weighs a "paltry" 32lbs. I thought it was more like 35 to 36lbs.

    Yup, choosing the colour is going to be the hardest part. I strongly agree with that.

    The rear shock option will be a little confusing for me too.

    I'm not sure if the Monarch is any good. I have always had Fox. Also, recently the Nicolai dealer in my area is pushing for the Magura air rear shock.

    Any comment on the MOnarch or MAgura rear shock?

    Also, I noticed a lot frame builders claim their factory fitted rear shocks (wheteher it's Manitou, Fox, MArz or RS) are custom valved according to the leverage ratio of the frame and blah, blah, blah... But haven't really heard of such thing about Nicolai frames.

    So this leads to the question will it be advisable to buy the AM frame without shock or with shock from Nicolai?

    Sorry for the stupendous amount of questions I have.

    Any Nicolai owners out there reading this feel free to chip in your thoughts. It will be much appreciated.

    cheers

    carbonloading

  52. #52
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    Hi Carbon, I have another 6 weeks to wait for my AM in Large size and I have worked out that with the 09 Fox dhx air and Talas 36 RC2 plus all the gear off my existing bike weight will be 27.5 lb's including 2.5 tyre on front and 2.3 on rear. I have saved weight by buying tough quality rather than mad light weight. Things like aerolite spokes, full Ti bolt kit, hope mono pro brakes with 180 rotors (a special from Hope), masterpiece seat post, king Ti headset etc.

    Weight isn't everything but its sure nice to have less of it on the way up!

  53. #53
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    Carbon, my local dealer said that Nicolai would have the shock tuned for the bike, I took that as read and ordered the shock with the frame seemed to make sense as cost was about the same.
    Last edited by Garry AM; 09-03-2008 at 12:48 AM.

  54. #54
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    I hope your not going to be dissapointed Garry but I think you're estimates are way off there. I've built my medium in a few different specs. using all top end gear. Even with an RP23 rear shock and lighweight 2.25 NN tyres it still was nowhere near 30lb. Good luck though.

    oh, and a Ti CK headset is heavier than a standard alloy one

  55. #55
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    Yep, 32lbs and I am totally comfortable thrashing it....

    I am not sure re the performance of the RS Monarch, the Pearl was poo's, but I have the RS Vivid on the ION ST and it is a great shock in my opinion, so maybe RS have got things dialed rear shock wise.

    Many companies for sure do get specific valving for their frames etc... I would throw a specific thread up on the shock choices for the AM, I think it will yield some good information.

    You will see that chinaman has done both setups, coil and air, so his views would be well worth reading up on...

    I do think you really need to work out what you want the Helius AM to do thats different to the Epi.... Because if you wish to progress your riding into more Knar stuff, the Helius FR may well be worth looking at....

    It aint easy to decide what is needed....


    Quote Originally Posted by carbonloading
    Noted Whafe. Wow! Didn't know your FR weighs a "paltry" 32lbs. I thought it was more like 35 to 36lbs.

    Yup, choosing the colour is going to be the hardest part. I strongly agree with that.

    The rear shock option will be a little confusing for me too.

    I'm not sure if the Monarch is any good. I have always had Fox. Also, recently the Nicolai dealer in my area is pushing for the Magura air rear shock.

    Any comment on the MOnarch or MAgura rear shock?

    Also, I noticed a lot frame builders claim their factory fitted rear shocks (wheteher it's Manitou, Fox, MArz or RS) are custom valved according to the leverage ratio of the frame and blah, blah, blah... But haven't really heard of such thing about Nicolai frames.

    So this leads to the question will it be advisable to buy the AM frame without shock or with shock from Nicolai?

    Sorry for the stupendous amount of questions I have.

    Any Nicolai owners out there reading this feel free to chip in your thoughts. It will be much appreciated.

    cheers

    carbonloading
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipper
    oh, and a Ti CK headset is heavier than a standard alloy one
    Yep, but dang it is one sexy piece of kit......
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  57. #57
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    Dipper, as I said build was for quility with weight saving the Ti is 4g heavier than the Alu model but significantly stronger it is half the weight of the slighlty stronger steel set so I went for it as it is a happy medium of strength versus weight.

    As soon as the bike is built up I'll post pic on scale!

  58. #58
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    Hey Garry, I have the exact mindset as you. I just want to be able to climb on the AM. And I'm not a good climber to begin with. Looks like your set up will be similar to mine. Yes, please post a pic on scale asap. Can't wait to see

    To Whafe, I have explored the idea of the Helius FR. I loved that bike just based on looks alone. I even nearly ordered one last year. However, to be honest to myself, it's too much bike for me and the nearest trail to justify the FR is about 5hrs away from where I'm staying.

    That's why the AM is so appealing right now....

  59. #59
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    Thanks Whafe and Dipper, I don't think I'll be disappointed when it arrives! if it a bit heavier then fine but my current bike with all the same equipement weighs 25.5lb with a frame weight of 6.1 lb so we'll see what the weight gain is of the Large AM plus DHX air. I was guessing 2lb ish in the LBS last week we weighed a medium am frame with monarch at 7.3lb

    It will be interesting for sure. Some other odments on my bike which save weight are ti dura ace cassette 12-27, ea90 stem, time ti attack pedals, toupe saddle. It takes all the abuse I give it and if anything does break I'll just order a new one (after I've walked off the mountain )

  60. #60
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    You have just answered my curiosity about the confirmed weight of the AM size M with MOnarch. That's reasonably light. Thanks GArry

  61. #61
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    Time will tell with what the weights will be, there is still very few built up, so you are all forging the way with these different builds....

    Part of me kind of thinks that an AM should be under 30lbs, my strange logic or reasoning of which many of us have touched on is the fact that there is 5 models in the Helius range, 6 if you count in the Travel CC..... So a Helius RC, CC, AM, FR & ST..... Am sure non of my babel makes sense, or maybe it does...

    All I can say is I can ride my FR all day long and be comfy as and bomb the down hills, it is the perfect steed in so many respects......

    But the AM is a sexy assed bike....
    Last edited by Whafe; 09-03-2008 at 01:58 AM.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  62. #62
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    Carbonloading - regarding my CC, check out the CC setups thread - there is a photo or two in that for you to take a drool over!! Colour-wise, you'll see the Fire Dept Red and Ano Black rear work very well! Might even go for this on the AM.

    Cheers
    Nick

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry AM
    It will be interesting for sure. Some other odments on my bike which save weight are ti dura ace cassette 12-27, ea90 stem, time ti attack pedals, toupe saddle. It takes all the abuse I give it and if anything does break I'll just order a new one (after I've walked off the mountain )
    Not that the Easton stem is not a nice stem, but I'd like to throw in another German firm, www.syntace.com. Some of your might have heard of the "F99" stem, which weighs below 100gr in certain lengths.

    Syntace has a broad range of stems and handlebars in aluminium and carbonfiber. And a very unique machine to test their reliabilty. http://syntace.com/index.cfm?pid=4&pk=676

    Have a look for yourself...

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    there is 4 models in the Helius range, 5 if you count in the Travel CC..... So a Helius CC, AM, FR & ST.....
    You forgot the RC Whafe


    P.S. The more I look at the AM frame the more I like it... especially in ano black.

    I feel a growing temptation to order one, but I seriously must resist it since there's absolutely no reason to swap my '07 FR for it since they're very similar and mine is still going strong (no wonder, it's only 14 months old).

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith
    You forgot the RC Whafe
    Whoops, true, thanks for that Smith. Will edit the post.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  66. #66
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    That paint job (Dizzy Tigger camouflage - glossy) on the 2MXTB on page 41 of the new Catalogue is focken sick......

    That is going to be a mean as looking frame colour, with all black components.... Yeah baby...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  67. #67
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    I agree with Whafe the AM should be under 30 pound. When we ever get are's where hoping it is under 30 pounds. That us going on are FR was 30.8 pounds

  68. #68
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    Hi,

    my AM is near to the 30 pounds. (The seatpost and the saddle are about 900g)

    Complete weight 13,74 kg













    Bye

  69. #69
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    that is a sweet bronzed extraloved AM

  70. #70
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    Hey Botswana, what size is your AM? Sweeeet by the way....

  71. #71
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    That is one awesome AM - can't wait for mine to be built up now! Just waiting on a pair of 36 Floats and Saint brakes.

  72. #72
    steep fast and loose :)
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    what;'s the damping and reactive nature of the monarch like botswana ?

  73. #73
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    Hi,

    the size is Medium.

    Regarding the Monarch I'am still double-minded you need a high pressure if you don't want to have more sag than 20% (about 15 Bar).

    But today when I ride it, it worked smooth and very good in my personal oopinion.

    Anyway we will see in the future.

    Bye

  74. #74
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    Damm nice rig... how do i get some of those dam cool extra love stickers!

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karve
    how do i get some of those dam cool extra love stickers!
    You can order them through Nicolai.

  76. #76
    steep fast and loose :)
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    @ 30lbs, the build is juxtaposed to the frames intent.
    mine will come in around 32lbs, with the correct spec to suit the frame.

    i'd prefer to sacrifice 2lbs to exploit all the AM has to offer.

  77. #77
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    I guess it really depends on where and what you're riding. Having spent a lot of time trail riding a 34lb bike my opinion is that this is just too heavy to be ridden for anything over two hours and the more extreme the terrain the harder it is to get a heavy bike to the top. As well as the Ion ST, I have a 2005 Spesh Enduro (pictures attached) that I've modified to run with 140mm rear and 130mm front. The resulting forks and other build kit bring the total weight down to around 28lbs, which if I were to ever build up a Helius AM (which having taken ownership of the Ion, I am now seriously considering!) would be my target weight, with the bike in the 140mm mode.

    I've taken my Spesh down quite a few of the DH courses in the UK - South Wales (albeit with a Fox 36 rather than the QR RS Revelation) as well as over some of the higher and more demanding passes in the Lake District, which give riding as hard as your ever going to find and frankly, the bike performed flawlessly. I rode the Spesh on the DH courses while waiting for the Ion and my mates (who are a bit slower than me) were a bit miffed that the (much) shorter travel bike didn't really slow me down all that much.

    I think you could easily exploit an AM built to sub 30lbs, especially now with the 4.2lb Fox Float 140mm with a 15mm through axle. Now the really hard question is what colour - do I go for the same BRG Metallic front, white rear or something else ;o)
    Attached Images Attached Images

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by geetee1972
    I guess it really depends on where and what you're riding. Having spent a lot of time trail riding a 34lb bike my opinion is that this is just too heavy to be ridden for anything over two hours and the more extreme the terrain the harder it is to get a heavy bike to the top.
    I did a 5 day trans-Alp on my 35 lbs Helius FR (meaning every day about 1600 meters up, usually in one big go, of which the last couple of 100s were always quite technical; and carrying all your gear for 5 days plus water on your back). The only times the weight bothered me was when I had to do steep hike-a-bike sections, carrying it with the wheels off the ground. It just pedals so well. And I wasn't even riding clipless pedals .

    I guess it depends on if you're in shape as well

  79. #79
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    geetee, I think a heavy CC or a light AM would be a perfect replacement for your Spesh...I agree I think the AM could be built with a good 140mm fork (my favourite would be the Magura Thor with 20mm b/t) , XTR double and bash, Formula R2's, I9 wheels or DT EX1750's and an air shock (Marzocchi or Magura?).....should come in at sub 30lb....that would be an interesting bike indeed.

    Colour of your Spesh is great....maybe stick to this for your AM......white with red levers and red extra love stickers?

  80. #80
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    Well quite! And I'm the first to confess to being built for comfort and not for speed ;o) Unless of course we're going down hill.

    So the AM pedals that well huh? I have to say I'm not surprised, my Ion pedals better than the Spesh!

  81. #81
    steep fast and loose :)
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    again, @ sub 30lb, you'll not exploit the capacity of the AM imo.
    the AM is capable of BIG hits. your lightweight wheelset selected to achieve sub 30lb will not be capable of big hits.

    therefore why buy an AM and disable its performance

  82. #82
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    Well, it's like those people that have 06 or 07 and later RFX's- some build them up to 40 pounds, while some boast about 30 pound builds. In the case of several, there are FR park wheelsets, and lightweight wheelsets, making a huge difference in weight and other characteristics- basically exploiting the frame's build on the low side and the high side. I built both of our 05/06 RFX's in the mid to low 30's, but it's nice to know I can build it with an awful and heavy wheelset, or a lighter one (though I can't imagine using anything less than a 5.1 hoop) and not feel ashamed of building it as such. I really dig the weight and the component spec and inline with your opinion, it is liberating to go on long rides on vacation or elsewhere and not worry because the spec exceeds what I can do with it.

  83. #83
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    Ryates - that's a pretty nice build list, might have to investigate a little. Lecht, I completely agree about the wheel issue and if anything is going to disable the performance of a bike designed to go fast and big, it's the wheels and tyres. A 140mm air shock travel AM with a 20mm through forks (heck the RS Revelations now come with a 20mm axle) could easily be sub 30lbs with a Mavic 819 wheelset that is more than strong enough for AM duties. You can then swap a DH wheel set for more full on DH riding.

  84. #84
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    geetee, I agree, 819's at 450g laced to DT240's or I9's.... would make at great light but strong AM wheelset.....and then fit something like 721's for DH. The RS sounds good too....prefer 20mm over 15mm.....so that rules out the Fox. Finding the right air shock is the difficult question to answer.....I think Lecht said that the RP3 was a good match?....but have also read good things about the Marzocchi air.

  85. #85
    steep fast and loose :)
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    geetee - you'll struggle to build it with 819's sub 30lbs.
    i'd say impossible.

  86. #86
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    Sorry TLR but just finished it and taken it for a ride beautiful!!! it pedals so much better than my old XC bike up hill and weighs 29lb 12oz with 2.4 Mountain King on!

  87. #87
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    Hey Garry, have you got any pics of this beauty yet? I am looking forward to seeing perhaps the first sub 30 AM

  88. #88
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    Hi Lorni sorry no pics yet got back from ride washed bike down and thought I'd take some pictures but when I got out of shower it was persisting down! and although thats okay for the AM its no good for the camera.

    One funny story from the day though was got it all built or so I thought and put it on the scales wow I thought 29 lb 2oz, couldn't believe it! then realised I had forgot to put the chain on hence 29lb 12 oz

  89. #89
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    Well, it's still under the magic thirty! What forks are you running>

  90. #90
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    2009 Fox TALAS RC2

  91. #91
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    And the shock is a DHX Air

  92. #92
    steep fast and loose :)
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    here's mine - 2009 TALAS 36 R, lighter shock, comes in at 30.6 lbs (certified scales).


  93. #93
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    Hi TLR looks good I'll take a pic when I get home tonight and post. How do you get on with the joplin SP I was looking but was worried about longevity and this play that people talk about that it can develop. An opinion from would be greatly appreciated. I am also looking at changing to flat pedals I was ridding clipped in yesterday and it was too slippy to ride the DH course clipped in once unclipped you can't really get going and clip back in while ridding over the roots (www.blackcanoncollective.co.uk) at Longleat.
    So was looking at a pair of 5.10's and some Burgtecs. All comments welcomed.

  94. #94
    steep fast and loose :)
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    the joplins is new. very simple to keep clean and service however.
    the play is not noticeable when on the saddle. the bushings are all replaceable however and they are warrantied for 2 years anyway.
    i ride 5:10's and flatboys. nice wide platform and shallow depth.

  95. #95
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    TLR - I'd recomend fitting a neoprene shock boot to the joplin. All three being used by our group had problems after a few months with water and dirt ingress which was alleviated by the boot fitment. This is a pic of an Enduro with one fitted



    And Paul (Firstdrive owner) has one on his Nomad.


  96. #96
    steep fast and loose :)
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    yetiman - i'll be stripping it down every couple of weeks, cleaning out the old grease and re-greasing with fresh. it's a 5 minute task on the joplin.
    shock boots have a tendency to trap in moisture. and if you're using a boot on the post, why not on the rear shock ?
    i'm only concerned about damage to the 'stanchion' due to wear grit, etc.

  97. #97
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    No probs. Just passing on some experience of long term use over 18 months. The boots do help so I assume the seal tolerances on the post are not as good as the shocks.

  98. #98
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    The post on that Nomad died last weekend at Laggan - we were hooning into the staircase when a saddle went flying off into the undergrowth because the clamp failed. Before that we were commenting about how much it moved and rattled - owner was happy though and plans to buy another.

    Rider weighs about 8-1/2 stone!

  99. #99
    from 0 - sideways 3.2 sec
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    8 1/2 stone is that a female rider, or a crack addict?

  100. #100
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    I'm sure his wife thinks he's addicted to crack... my wife certainly thinks I am

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