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  1. #1
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    New question here. Nicolai Helius AC/CC 29er thoughts?

    So, read the great review of the Helius AC 29er and I have a little history of 29ers with my Jones etc.

    Currently rocking a Titus x-carbon (ssh) on the race circuit using it for marathon xc distance and 24hr racing.

    I would love to get another Nicolai, and I reckon for some of the stuff I'm doing it would be interesting to do it on a 29er again. Also with a thought to long distance xc/trail touring.

    Question is, and I know its a bit weight weenie, what could I expect to bring a new Helius AC29er in at, weight wise?
    Anyone with real world examples and spec lists?
    In 24hr Solo racing and on the long distance stuff it does make a big difference. This year I've done some events on my AM at 33lbs and others of similar distance on my Titus at 24lbs and there is a big difference in fatigue levels.

    My wife loves the Titus (must say I'm very impressed) so there is an opportunity here

    I'd be carrying over some parts so the biggest area's will be in brakes, spokes/rims and the all important fork? at least 15mm QR for me at the front.

    Feel free to post any pictures to get me even more stoked! If I thought I could deliver an AC29er at 25lb I would be a happy boy.

    Last question, is it too much?

    Really I'd like to spec a CC 29er as I don't want to compete with my Helius AM (29er with up to 150mm travel is very close to my AM?) I want a different tool for a different job, I was thinking more short travel full suss 100/120mm 26er is fine, so maybe 100/100 for 29er.

    At the moment the standard offerings suggest the new AC29er is lighter frame/shock by 100g than the current CC 26 frame.
    What might the current AC 29er design specced with CC tubing and 100mm travel would come in at?

    Discuss, constructively please, but if I'm nuts and a 'keep what you got' msg is what I need then feel free :-)
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  2. #2
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    27 views and no thoughts?..

    re-read some of the other threads- the 29inches review and Dippers AC thread..which seems to suggest 108-120mm rear on the current STD model, sounds good.

    1.5" HT to allow some fiddling with an angle set and bring the stack height down..

    dippers bike at 31lb heavy build, that would be too close to my AM at 32.5lb

    29inches bike at 29 ish...still on the heavy side...hmmm

    Maybe I should create a spreadsheet model...can't you tell I'm recovering post op and have too much time...
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  3. #3
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    Ok, I'm trying to answer my own questions now, fantasy AC 29 custom, possibly with short seat tube, longer TT, 1.5" HT

    Frame/shock: *Nicolai AC 29er/Vip'r 2900g
    Forks: *2012 SID120 1559g
    H/S: *CC angle set 112g
    Wheels: Stans crest/ Sapim cx-ray/CK hubs 15mm/12mm. 1550g
    Brakes: Hope Tech M4 1000g
    Tyres: 1200g*
    Crank: *XTR trail 26/38*750g
    Rear mech:*XT*225g *
    FR mech: *XTR 125g
    Shifters: XT/X9 225g
    Cassette: KCNC 11-34 210g
    Chain: YBN Hollowpin 220g
    Bars: Wide (730mm) Carbon flat/low rise 190g
    Stem: Thomson x4 70mm 170g
    Grips: Ozriders*49g
    S/post: Reverb 550g
    Saddle: San Marco Regal*180g
    cables: alligator 75g
    Pedals: PointOne/XT 330g
    11.62kg/25.5lb or 11.25kg/24.8lb without reverb.

    I'd be happy at that, have I missed something?

    Opportunities/compromise either in practicality/strength/fun
    brakes: xtr -200g : Hope (for me) easy to maintain/spare parts/cheap pads/long life?
    1x10: -160g gearing not quite as wide for bikes purpose
    lose the reverb- 370g less fun, race only mod, but it's fun to have fun when racing and I like tech courses.
    Pedals: eggbeabers -150g I hate them, couldn't do it

    Best case 11.27kg/24.8lb*or without reverb 10.9kg/24lb

    Is it really possible....
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  4. #4
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    600g tires? My 2.1 Aspen eXC tires are heavier than that and with the added DH potential of a Helius (vs. CD Flash) they could have a bit more tread (Ikon might do).

    Other suggestion: 100mm Lefty fork, Avid XX WC or X7 brakes. Pilot's other parts are certainly a good choice.

  5. #5
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    Hmm, lefty fork, never thought about that! Carbon 120mm version? Must research..agree on the brakes, but I love the modulation, reliability backup and power of my hopes, probably a compromise I'm willing to make...
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  6. #6
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  7. #7
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    Weight may be an issue. Even with a cc I think you'll struggle to get below 27lb. Might be wrong though. Here's my currentspec for an idea

    Medium ac 29er. Tapered ht, 12mm rear Powder coated
    Fox float 120 fit rlc and rp23
    Hope hubs on stans crest and schwalbe 2.25 fast freds running tubeless
    Xtr chainset(3 rings and use them all!)
    Xtr cassette and chain
    Xo Shifters and mech
    Tech m4 brakes
    I900 remote post
    Sunline 80mm xc stem
    Sunline v1 bar

    Currently 30lb dead Inc pedals

    You could change the bar and brakes and ditch the post but everything else is already light. Go with Ano as well and cc tubing and 27ish would be realistic I'd think
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Hmm, lefty fork, never thought about that! Carbon 120mm version? Must research..agree on the brakes, but I love the modulation, reliability backup and power of my hopes, probably a compromise I'm willing to make...
    I'm not sure whether it's possible to get a 120mm Lefty fork for the 29er. The 90mm Lefty that comes with the Flash is the same, traveled, that is used as a 120mm fork for the Rize. So maybe one could travel a 140mm Lefty Max fork to 110 or 120mm.
    The Scalpel 29 comes with a 100mm Lefty (probably the same as the Flash's).

    Hope parts rule and they look damn sexy on a Nicolai. I often considered getting some Hope brakes as well, but then the Avids work well, so why swap?

    edit: If you got any questions concerning the frame, just shoot. I'm going to the Nicolai factory show this weekend and can ask them in person.

  9. #9
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    Here we go then dipper, based on your calcs..

    Medium ac 29er. Tapered ht, 12mm rear Powder coated
    Fox float 120 fit rlc and rp23 use Lefty carbon - 470g
    Hope hubs on stans crest and schwalbe 2.25 fast freds running tubeless use lefty hub and Rocket Rons+sealant -260g use cx-ray spokes (assuming comps) -100g)
    Xtr chainset(3 rings and use them all!) use xtr trail -50g
    Xtr cassette and chain - use kcnc cassette - 75g, use ybn sl chain - 25g
    Xo Shifters and mech - same near as dammit
    Tech m4 brakes - same - but use Ti bolts + pro rotors (assume normal 160s?)- 150g
    I900 remote post - same
    Sunline 80mm xc stem = same for comparable stem.
    Sunline v1 bar use Carbon flat bar -90g

    So potential weight saving of 1.02kg,

    If a normal saddle then 100g there, normal cables 75g there, but still only 1.4kg or 3lb

    Would the use of CC tubing but the new AC design drop much in the frame?

    So what would that be 27lb with pedals? suggests Nicolai frame could be as much as 4.5kg, which I'm not sure that can be true can it!! They are showing the custom version on the website as 2700g in a M with ST...
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  10. #10
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    The CC wasn't lighter than the AC, but maybe you could get a RC tubeset (I doubt it).

  11. #11
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    Midget man, I just read there were some changes making the new AC frame lighter, it's quoted as 2700g on the Nic website for the 29er.

    So you could do me a favour and ask the 'real weight' of a 29er AC frame and then how that might change with short seat tube as per the pic/spec on their website, or if CC tubing & new design would be lighter.

    I think I might want this as I have shortish legs at 31.5" inside leg, might be worth even a slightly more sloping TT?

    I'm realistic, I know a Nic won't be the lightest out there but sub 3kg frame weight should be possible without shock on a cross country oriented frame.

    And you're right the new left carbon is a 100mm, but it's so much lighter than anything else 29er.

    I'd just have to check what stem vs stack height as there are some issues with that and a lefty, is suspect min stem might be 80mm.

    Target weight with a standard post would be 25lbs for me with a lefty.
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  12. #12
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    Tell you what, I'll strip it down and weigh it! I'll leave the acros headset in as sure you'll k ow the weight of that! I'll do it over the weekend
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    So you could do me a favour and ask the 'real weight' of a 29er AC frame and then how that might change with short seat tube
    - Helius AC 29er frame size M (?) with S seat tube actual weight
    - possible weight savings with CC tubeset

    roger that

  14. #14
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    Pilot, I have an AC frame in 26" flavour sitting here with a 1.5" head tube, 12mm axle, anodised and it tips the scales at a lot more than the claimed weight of 2.6kg!

    It actually weighs a shocking 2930 grams! My AM frame with the same spec was 3190 grams. It's a big difference to the claimed weight and I can't see the 29er being any lighter.

    It'll be interesting to see how much Dippers frame weighs when he strips it.

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    I have nothing to suggest on the frame, however I am interested in it. If I like my 29er argon then I might contemplate getting one.

    The hope hoops are heavy even with cx ray spokes around the 2000g mark. Wasting haven Ali are around 1750g and the carbon around 1650g or posh bikes think they can build stan crest rims onto tune hubs for less then 1500g

  16. #16
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    Ian,

    I worked out as above CK rims on crests with cxrays was approx 1550g give or take a frame or two, I was even sad enough to take into account the spoke length. sub 1500g with a lefty hub.

    SDR, interesting that, my AM also came in at just under 3200g and I would expect it to have a much heavier tube set. I wonder if the rear triangle is the same on all in terms of spec?

    I did read, as I said that the new design is somewhat lighter, lighter than the current CC and the one on the website quotes the 29er at 2700g, the swing arm does appear to have more holes! Is yours the 2011/12 model year?

    I'll go search the web and find a link I think.

    Midget man, yes M frame :-)

    I want to do this project with the Nicolai 29er and I do want it to last but I do struggle with a frame weight well over a kilo heavier than anything else out there and as beefy as my AM to take 160/170 forks.

    Here's hoping it's is closer to 2700g.

    I wonder if they're weighing it without rocker plates/pivot bushes/mech hanger, which technically would be frame weight but Not actually representative?

    There might be 25g in the pivot and mech hanger bolts if titanium was used 'clutches at straws!!'
    Last edited by the_pilot; 08-13-2011 at 02:08 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    I did read, as I said that the new design is somewhat lighter, lighter than the current CC and the one on the website quotes the 29er at 2700g, the swing arm does appear to have more holes! Is yours the 2011/12 model year?
    There is no current CC The CC was replaced by the AC and the last quoted weight for the CC was higher than the AC's anyway: CC 2700g @ 26" vs. AC 2600g @ 26"
    What you are looking for is a Helius RC (2300g @ 26") 29er.
    All the official Nicolai weights are for M frames, black anodized, w/ RADO, w/ bearings, w/ rocker links, but w/o shock and mounting kit. However they seem to be too low usually...

  18. #18
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    CC was still listed on their website but you're right, just checked. The 29er spec sheet has no weight but 29inches said Nicolai quoted 3.1kg so the same weight as an AM!

    The Giant Anthem 29er comes in at 2700g with 100mm travel, shock and headset cups. I'd be ecstatically happy at that, but it wont happen (And since they appear to be cracking top tubes one wonders) however 2900g or 3kg for the Nic with a shock without headset for a 100mm XC bike must be doable surely esp. with an unbraced short seat tube...here's hoping
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  19. #19
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    I assume that Nicolai simply use straight gauge tubing for the 29er AC. At least for the downtube. It seems to be their all-purpose remedy when building something bigger or different. The XXL frames, like mine, for example always come with them.

    Don't worry too much about the weight though. I actually won a 24h race on my heavy duty Nicolai (Pike coil etc.) after messing up my race bikes's drivetrain (I felt a bit strange among the folks with their 18lb carbon hardtails though). Just make sure you get good wheels and tires.

  20. #20
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    Great thread. Sorry have not responded sooner. That work thing has been full on of late...

    Check out the below threads on my AC29er.... Of which is 28.9 lbs.... It is built not to be light as it could be. 20mm front axel, 12 mm rear axel, ti HS, Ti bar ends etc etc...

    The Tangerine Dream - 29er Bikes


    The Tangerine Dream - Nicolai

    I do think it would be possible to make it quite a lot lighter...

    I have had a Jones, of which I sold recently. I loved the Jones, however just love the AC29er more... I have a decent bunch of bikes, and if I could only own 1 bike, the AC29er would be it...

    I would seriously ask Karl Nicolai what a Helius RC frame would and could weigh. I have thought about this often... However the weight of my current AC is not heavy when riding, but hear and understand your thoughts on weight in long races etc...

    Any questions, hit me up and will do my best to answer
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  21. #21
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    Hi Whafe, strangely similar on opposite sides of the world. I sold my Jones after finding myself on the AM all the time! However, I did love the geo on it for a 29er, other 29ers I've ridden feel too twitchy or too barge like.
    I'm trying to find out the offset On the 'Dale lefty 29er and 26er forks, since both can be used.
    The diff is the AC has 18mm longer CS compared to say a Superfly (447/465), which does ride nice, they have 71HA but 51mm offset. (Jeff and Gary 'discussed this between them at a SSWC I understand and then both came out)
    So my Q would be your CS's are 5mm shorter than the Nic STD 29er and the HA 1deg slacker @71
    How does it feel in singletrack/tight trees compared to Jones, my benchmark 29er handling (ingnoring rigid specific weight distribution)

    My thought was (bear in mind I want 100mm travel to differentiate it enough from my AM, I'm happywith 120mm 26" for racing/xc) specify around a 71deg HA and 1.5" HT to use an angle set (must check if they are + or - 1.5deg or total 1.5deg change)
    If the former then between 69.5 and 72.5 HA would be ideal to use upto 120 fork if I felt the need but also to dial in my preferred HA by feel.

    I take it Helius RC would be Helius frame design with a light tube set?

    Lastly yours is a pretty light build really, the lefty would save 600g, some in the saddle (150g) & wheels(300g with crests/leftyhub, 300g light 2.0 tyres) maybe 2.5-3lbs max. 27lbs. I would be after a M frameset with short ST and poss extra slope on TT so that with the light tube set may realise an extra 200g....
    Last edited by the_pilot; 08-13-2011 at 05:54 AM.
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  22. #22
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    Looks like the quoted weights above are pretty good for the AC 29er. Just stripped and cleaned mine. It's a medium, powder coat, 12mm, tapered ht. Weighed minus shock bolts and maxle but Inc cable guides and the top/bottom cups and bearings of a tapered across headset

    3.32kg. Ano apparently reduces that by @ 200grams and a small will knock a bit off again so 3kg ish is almost doable

    I've no idea about other 29ers but I can also say that the ac is very stiff. Even when hauling on my 760odd mm flat dh bars and bar ends there is very little hint of flex when standing and honking. I can notice a sizable difference in flex between running crests and flows and the fox 32 15mm shows some flex but is pretty good considering.

    Surely the ability to efficiently put the power down is as important as light weight?
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    Excellent dipper :-)
    Didn't realise paint was that high! Power down is a fair point, stiffness is what I love about the Nic!
    Wonder if RC tubing would kill that? Hmmm

    I think I'd want Med TT dimensions.

    Seems to me an Ano AM29er with small ST might scrape in at 3kg which I could live with. If it could be optimised without compromising stiffness that would be great...

    I only weigh 68kg and leftys are very stiff so I doubt I'd trouble crests too much, Alpines are fine for me so..

    Can anyone confirm the nature of RC tubing, just lighter gauge or butted?
    Last edited by the_pilot; 08-13-2011 at 06:00 AM.
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  24. #24
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    A guy on a german forum stripped the paint off his 26'' AC.
    In his case it made a difference of about 130g.

  25. #25
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    Bikes rebuilt and minus the i900 is just over 29lb(29.07 to be exact). Will be fitting a reverb though so will be back to 30! Brakes and bars and lighter pedals should see it at 29 but unlikely I'll ever see lower than that.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midgetman View Post
    - Helius AC 29er frame size M (?) with S seat tube actual weight
    - possible weight savings with CC tubeset

    roger that
    1) The medium AC 29er frame was quoted with 3kg. S seat tube doesn't make much difference, 50g if you're lucky.

    2) Lighter tubeset: they consider offering two versions of the AC 29. The current and one with slightly shorter chain stays. The latter is meant to be a more agile trailbike, while the former is going to be the more endurance racing oriented version (longer CS - better traction when climbing). The AC could get lighter in the progress. I wouldn't expect miracles though

    3) Paint: weight of the paint is 200-300g (front and rear triangle powder coated)


    edit: Nicolai factory show = awesome

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Hi Whafe, strangely similar on opposite sides of the world. I sold my Jones after finding myself on the AM all the time! However, I did love the geo on it for a 29er, other 29ers I've ridden feel too twitchy or too barge like.
    I'm trying to find out the offset On the 'Dale lefty 29er and 26er forks, since both can be used.
    The diff is the AC has 18mm longer CS compared to say a Superfly (447/465), which does ride nice, they have 71HA but 51mm offset. (Jeff and Gary 'discussed this between them at a SSWC I understand and then both came out)
    So my Q would be your CS's are 5mm shorter than the Nic STD 29er and the HA 1deg slacker @71
    How does it feel in singletrack/tight trees compared to Jones, my benchmark 29er handling (ingnoring rigid specific weight distribution)...
    Pilot, indeed strangely similar for sure.... When was first working with Karl and his team with drawings for the AC29er, the CS length was one of the things we spent time on, I was wanting the CS's as short as possible, in the end the CS length was determined by the amount of travel we could get or were aiming for, hence the outcome of the CS length (on my AM29er, we were able to shorten the CS length more by putting in the AFR rear, which shortened the CS's considerably, of course it also slackened the ST)

    How does it handle? Well for me, the strength of the Jones was in really slow techy type terrain, of which is my favorite terrain. In typical singletrack type trails, for me the AC29er rips. In the end, the best answer is the fact that I sold my Jones (loved my Jones with passion)

    A few pics, just trying to show in techy chunk, the AC29er is great in my opinion, pics never seem to show steepness etc








    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    My thought was (bear in mind I want 100mm travel to differentiate it enough from my AM, I'm happywith 120mm 26" for racing/xc) specify around a 71deg HA and 1.5" HT to use an angle set (must check if they are + or - 1.5deg or total 1.5deg change)
    If the former then between 69.5 and 72.5 HA would be ideal to use upto 120 fork if I felt the need but also to dial in my preferred HA by feel.
    If I was to build a straight out speed demon Nicolai FS 29er for some sort of racing and aiming for 100mm travel. I would go immediately for Karl to build me a Helius RC29er. Of which would reduce a little weight and still be a very strong frame. The HA at present with 120mm fork travel is perfect for me. If I was running it @ 100mm up front, I think currently it would be perhaps a degree to steep.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Lastly yours is a pretty light build really, the lefty would save 600g, some in the saddle (150g) & wheels(300g with crests/leftyhub, 300g light 2.0 tyres) maybe 2.5-3lbs max. 27lbs. I would be after a M frameset with short ST and poss extra slope on TT so that with the light tube set may realise an extra 200g....
    Agree, yes mine is a pretty light build, I specced it light where I could. But made it strong as in places, like the 20mm axel, 12mm axel etc etc... My wheels are not the lightest, but were not built for lightness per se. Wanted all round strength / weight ratio as best I could for my needs / application.

    This bike has been and is, my most favorite bike I have owned. As I mentioned, if I could only have one bike, this would be it, hands down. It climbs awesome, descends great, is hugely stiff, been oh so reliable. Very interested in your project here you are doing.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  28. #28
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    I have been umming and arrghing for some time now about a new bike and it has come down to a choice between an AC or a AM.

    I have had some time on an AM and built up with Bos suspension I loved it but it is a lot more bike than I would use 90% of the time but is spot on for the other 10%.

    The AC would be great for the vast majority of the time but might be overwhelm when on road trips to the Alps, Scotland etc

    I also spent some time on a Santa Cruz Tall Boy which made me see what all the 29'er fuss was about. The thing is 29'er is too much for me and I am convinced that an AC ran on 650B wheels would be spot on.... any idea if this is possible? It is not just about it fitting but also seat tube strikes at full compression. Would it screw up the handling etc??

    Hope you don't mind me asking here, you guys certainly seem to know your Nicolai's...

    Cheers

  29. #29
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    Why do you think a 29er will be too much for you? It's just a bike. What will a 650 b do for you that 26 or 29 won't? Other than seriously reduce tyre choice!
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    Ok, thanks to Midgetman, Whafe and Dipper. I did write doubly this 3 times last night but the damn site kept kicking me out!

    It looks like for what I'm after and RC29er would be the daddy.

    I also looks like from the evidence we have gathered here, m'lud, that it (RC29er, out new model name :-))could be delivered in the 2.8kg-2.9kg range,. This is based on a quoted weight of 3kg, but also on Dippers bike at 3.32kg with 100g headset and 200g of paint.

    So, my dear Watsons, by deduction if Dippers bike is currently 29lb with STD seat post, my calculations show it could lose some 3.lbs with crest rims/cxray spokes, a lefty fork, flat carbon bar and a lightweight saddle. The frame weight could be reduced to at least 3kg stock, Ano/med/smallST/extra slope but 1.4"HT and maybe by another 150g? By RC tubing, let's call it 100g to be conservative.
    This leads to an initial equation:

    Dippers Bike(13.2kg) - Enhanced spec weight diff. described (1.4kg)- RC29er frame weight diff.(100g) = 11.7kg or sub 26lb [26.5lb with a reverb]

    It does beg the question, whether if RC tubing would only be 100g lighter (200g would be worth it) but noticeably less stiff or durable, then adding an xtr rear derailleur (-45g) and having racing pedals (eggbeater alternatives @ 180g) for race day would be a better compromise. So at an extreme it could be brought in at 11.5kg/25.3lb

    Let's review potential spec..
    Frame *Nicolai RC 29er, 1.5HT, M frame/Short ST/Xtra slope TT, 465mm CS, 100mm - 2900g
    shock: Bos Vip'r 200g
    Forks: Cannondale Lefty Carbon xlr,100mm / carbon steerer - 1250g
    H/S: *CC angle set 112g
    Wheels: Stans crest/ Sapim cx-ray/CK/Project321. 1490g
    Brakes: Hope Tech M4 1000g
    Tyres: 1200g*
    Crank: *XTR trail 26/38*750g
    Rear mech:*XT*225g *
    FR mech: *XTR 125g
    Shifters: XT/X9 225g
    Cassette: KCNC 11-34 210g
    Chain: YBN Hollowpin 220g
    Bars: Wide (730mm) Carbon flat/low rise 190g
    Stem: Thomson x4 70mm 170g
    Grips: Ozriders*49g
    S/post: carbon @180g/Reverb 550g
    Saddle: San Marco Regal*180g
    cables: alligator 75g
    Pedals: PointOne/eggbeater alt. 330g/180g
    11.7kg/25.7lb or 12.07kg/26.5lb with reverb.

    Best case 11.48kg/25.2.lb* or with reverb 11.86kg/26lb

    I could take another half pound off it if I used xtr brakes but I have to draw the line on what I like vs eight weenie somewhere...I'm easily carrying half a pound excess blubber ;-)

    Hmmm, best ask the question of Karl Nicolai about RC29er and whether it's worth it/long term durable (for not crazy riding) eh Dipper and then get the calculator out.




    On this
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  31. #31
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    Haha! You're a proper anorak! best not get it muddy as that'll screw up all your calcs!
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

    flash bikes for flash gits

  32. #32
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    It does get dangerous and expensive when I can't burn off the excess energy riding, best not to get hurt or projects start to form!!

    Damage is done now!! MUD you say...next thing you'll be talking scratches!!!
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Hmmm, best ask the question of Karl Nicolai about RC29er and whether it's worth it/long term durable (for not crazy riding) eh Dipper and then get the calculator out.
    That's the way to go

    BTW as soon as you got the new bike, you'll ride every free minute and burn that excess weight round your waist in no time

  34. #34
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    Agree, hit up Karl to do some drawings with RC tubing, he will be keen to do that for you am sure... If not, let me know, will give him a wind up and get things rolling.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    I'm really eying up this with interest, its going to be interesting on seeing what my argon 29er is going to be like. hopefuy i will love it.

  36. #36
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    So how does one go about asking the question of the man himself? Through ones dealer Dipper or ones Antipodean comrades?

    If it all got a bit hard, 26.5lb with a reverb isn't bad, I was just chasing 25.5 :-) What I can't have is a fragile or wibbely (English slang for bloody flexy) frame..
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    So how does one go about asking the question of the man himself?
    Kalle: +49 5185-60 266-15

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    I'll try him Friday :-) Just perused the RC, mmmm RC29er :-)

    Site quotes 100/120mm travel but then in text 84mm/100mm.

    I'm really looking as light as possible with a lefty and as I said happy with 100R/120F on my 26" race bike so 100 would be fine, but it would be nice to have 120 option at the rear.
    Do you reckon Karl would go for the Helius RC with all the lightening details for the 29er....how did I start down this road.....
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  39. #39
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    Congrats pilot. Now I consider selling my 8 week old Flash frame and replacing it with an Argon 29er...

    It's all your fault.

  40. #40
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    Ha ha, sorry!

    Does your flash have the new 29er 100mm lefty? I'm trying to find out the offset on it? No one seems to know.

    It's your fault I'm thinking of the lefty.. Found an RC26er with lefty on the RC thread, very nice. 9.5kg without silly parts, encouraging.
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  41. #41
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    I think the Flash Lefties are traveled to 90mm. I'll check the Lefty manual for the offset when I'm back home. If I cannot find anything, I'll do my best to get you an exact measurement.

    There is another issue with the lefty however: The Cdale steerer seems to be 1 9/16" from what I read here on the board. So, do we need special headtubes or does a 1.5 HT and a distinctive Cdale headset do? Can we use the original Cdale headsets in a common 1.5" headtube or does it need special reaming? Cdale write in the descriptions of some of their frames that they have 1.5" headtubes...

    We probably have to ask somebody who already has a leftified Nicolai - or wait for their answer to my request.

  42. #42
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    There are special adaptors/aftermarket steering tubes incl. Carbon, 1.5" headtube is the best bet (c'dales are 1.5") but you can get a steerer from Www.project.321 for 1.1/8" HT's. They do lots of parts, incl an adaptor for normal stem. So you can run 1.1/8 steerer/stem.

    100mm is the 2012 C'Dale 1000 xlr lefty 29er. Not avail yet but soon.

    All older 140's can also he converted as they have 510mm a2c, you just travel restrict them with spacers so they don't whack wheel on crown :-)
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  43. #43
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    I know that there are 1.125 adaptors, but I wouldn't want one. To me the Lefty's greatest advantage is its stiffness, not the low weight. So I don't like the thought of going with a thinner steerer.

    Are you absolutely sure about the 1.5" headtube? A guy in the German Nicolai forum reported exactly about the problem of a Cdale fork not fitting in his 1.5" headtube, but this was an older thread.

    ...and I checked the Lefty manual: the rake is not mentioned. I couldn't make a proper measurement either. The axle is basically on level with the fork's tube. All the offset is in the clamps.

  44. #44
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    Ok. Admission here midgetman. Cannondale ispre-historic...I meanpre- 1.5" HT history. It's 1.56!!

    The headset has to be cannondale and is hard to get hold of.

    11/8 steerer should have no noticeable effect on stiffness, especially on a bike like this. But if that was an issue both blackcatbone and project321 do tapered steerers,

    I want a standard or Angleset so need to make sure the overall stack height is 137.5, max 138mm for a bonded lefty. That way I can run 1.5HT or Tapered HT and have max flexibility if I do decide to change forks in future, rather than being tied to C'Dale headsets.

    The blackcatbone carbon tapered steerer is the lightest at only 100g or so.

    Angleset is I think 25mm stack height so HT would need to be 112.5mm. I need to check and consult with Karl. As i said Endorphin has on on his RC in the RC setup thread.
    Last edited by the_pilot; 08-17-2011 at 09:09 AM.
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  45. #45
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    Just got an email from Stephan@nicolai: they always use 1.5" headtubes with Lefties. Apparently that is no problem! The surcharge for a lefty compatible frame is 300€.

  46. #46
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    Just trying to find out if a Lefty compatible head tube/frame (I'm assuming that means it's length) is covered within the custom €600 upcharge I would expect so since it is just part of a custom spec. Otherwise an anodised custom frame with lefty headtube is €1300 more than STD!

    Hopefully Endorphin will be along soon with his experience of fitting s lefty carbon to his RC with 1.1/8" headtube.

    I was thinking of an angle set but I see it's 300g!!!! 220g for tapered!!! which is too much of a penally.
    I would rather use a custom headset cup from ofanaim at 100g I think.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Just trying to find out if a Lefty compatible head tube/frame (I'm assuming that means it's length) is covered within the custom €600 upcharge
    Yes, it is.


    Personally I don't like the looks of the angleset. Don't get me wrong, I see the technical merits, but a fat 1.5 headtube (all Ns I've seen with an angleset so far had 1.5 headtubes) and a conventional, slim race fork just don't match. Might be less of a problem if you use the Lefty though.

  48. #48
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    Midget man I agree, hence the above.

    I now understand how, with a slightly longer than the lefty clamp reducer, the project321 or blackcatbone steerers, specifically the tapered or 1.1/8", allow minor adjustments to the spacer height so the bearings can be preloaded correctly.

    So actually an absolutely standard 1.5" or 1.1/8 HT will work just fine with a lefty. In actual fact a STD 1.1/8" HS and I expect HT is somewhat lighter.

    So I will go with a STD 1.5" HT and run a blackcatbone 1.1/8" carbon steerer or tapered steerer with a traditional flush conversion headset top and/or 1.5 bottom. Which would give me the lowest possible overall front height. Stack height would be either 12mm (1.1/8" steerer) or 20mm (tapered), so overall HT height would be 130mm leaving 7mm of spacing for a 1.1/8" steerer or I would need 0.5-1mm off the STD headtube for the AC29er to give 117-117..5mm HT and overall 137.5mm which is the lefty STD.

    So the conclusion is no special head tube required :-)

    If I did want to change the angles Saar could produce some new cups easily for the 1.5 HT which should maintain, but from what I read and see I think the angles of the standard AC should be fine.
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  49. #49
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    Nicolai will ask you to send in Lefty fork and headset so they can build exactly to fit the fork. No compromise.

    However I became slightly skeptical about getting a Lefty specific frame. Due to the short headtube (upper crown) you would be bound to always using a Lefty. If you took another form, that would mean you need 1.5cm of spacers to make up for the upper crown. On the other hand: the Lefty is probably the best 29er racing fork out there and I kind of doubt that one would/could feel the urge to use another fork.

  50. #50
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    I've sent Karl an email with my ideas so far. Wait and see if he inks it's possible and then perhaps we have a discussion;

    In summary:
    RC29er
    AC29er basic geometry but optimised for 100mm fork with AC29er M frame effective TT length, AC29er S frame ST length, with a question as to whether 20mm lower stand over possible.
    1.5" HT standard diameter but 117.5mm length to allow for Cane Creek 110 headset; STD 1.5" flush fit top cup conversion to 1.1/8" 8mm stack with STD 1.5" lower cup, 12mm stack, 20mm overall.

    Asked if it's possible to keep the travel options of AC at the rear (103-120mm) and maintain longevity. If not happy to go with 100mm/80mm RC linkage type travel.

    Now to wait...
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