Results 1 to 35 of 35

Thread: New FR and AM

  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,652

    New FR and AM

    Just to confirm some details on these new bikes from the Nicolai website, the FR is strengthened to take forks like the totem. The weight increases to 4.4KG (9.68lb). The AM is intended to be used with forks like wotan and rs lyrics and comes in at 3.5kg (7.7lb). Comparing weights the 08FR is 3.9kg (8.58lb). All the weights are based on medium and include an appropriate shock? I am trying to find out if the new FR will come with 1.5 headtube and maxle rear as standard. Does anyone know about this? So the complete Helius line-up now is RC CC AM FR2 (ST?). I think if you are only getting one bike then AM. If you want or can afford two, then for me it would be CC plus FR2 or ST (or UFO ST). I will try to post some photos if I can find any.

  2. #2
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    570
    I've just read a post by Falco Mille on the mtb-news.de forums on how to recognize a strengthened FR frame. They started strengthening them a while back, but didn't document when exactly. You can recognize it on the welds on the MX gusset (the plate with the N carved into it at the side of the headtube, between top and bottom tube). This gusset has three welds on the downtube. If the middle weld is exactly the same size as the outer two welds, you've got the strengthened frame, able to handle the bigger 180mm forks.

    Just checked mine, and yes, mine's a strengthened version .

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    635
    Quote Originally Posted by ryates
    All the weights are based on medium and include an appropriate shock?
    That´s correct!

    Quote Originally Posted by ryates
    I am trying to find out if the new FR will come with 1.5 headtube and maxle rear as standard. Does anyone know about this?
    1 1/8 HT and normal dropouts are standard. 1.5 HT 123€ and maxle 46€ surcharge.

  4. #4
    wyrd bið ful ãræd
    Reputation: chinaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,725
    something between the FR and CC??? nice

    more options ...
    Last edited by chinaman; 04-06-2008 at 01:39 PM.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Karve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,437
    WOW fascinating posts

    Thought it was an April fools

    But its not
    http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=319186
    For those of you who cant speak German
    http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?hl...p%3Ft%3D319186

    Quote Originally Posted by Boozzz
    I've just read a post by Falco Mille on the mtb-news.de forums on how to recognize a strengthened FR frame. They started strengthening them a while back, but didn't document when exactly. You can recognize it on the welds on the MX gusset (the plate with the N carved into it at the side of the headtube, between top and bottom tube). This gusset has three welds on the downtube. If the middle weld is exactly the same size as the outer two welds, you've got the strengthened frame, able to handle the bigger 180mm forks.
    I haven't seen a 08 FR without this. The one on their site which would have been one of the very early 08s has this detail. Does that mean all 08 FRs are strengthened ? Can anyone find an example of one which isnt?

    Awesome to hear I can let the Totem rock at 180 without any issues Perfect timing!

    Quote Originally Posted by ryates
    Just to confirm some details on these new bikes from the Nicolai website, the FR is strengthened to take forks like the totem. The weight increases to 4.4KG (9.68lb). The AM is intended to be used with forks like wotan and rs lyrics and comes in at 3.5kg (7.7lb). Comparing weights the 08FR is 3.9kg (8.58lb)
    500g increase on the FR.. where will all that weight go? Would imply a very different design? Thats only one pound less that an ST. I wonder in the FR rear travel will go to 180?

    Glad i got mine when I did as it sounds like I would have been caught between 2 bikes as the current FR really fills the gap of heavy duty AM light FR which is me - Where as the new ones will split into classical AM and FR

  6. #6
    lazy piston
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    373
    I'm really longing to find out more about the Helius AM and to see pictures.
    What is considered an 'appropriate' shock for the AM with which it is weighed?
    Will it have the adjustability of the '07 (and earlier) FR?

  7. #7
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    570
    Don't know if they're going to change the FR anymore than they already did with their head-gusset update. If you look closely at the one on their website, and Whafe's FR for example, you'll see that the weld is slightly shorter, and the 2 holes between the 3 welds slightly larger. Another difference I found is that if you look at the shock mount on the top tube, you'll see yours and mine is different as well from the earlier models: shorter and less holes.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    635
    Quote Originally Posted by Smith
    I'm really longing to find out more about the Helius AM and to see pictures.
    What is considered an 'appropriate' shock for the AM with which it is weighed?
    Hi,
    the standard shock will be a RockShox Monarch 4.2, weight will be 3,5kg with shock. I guess under normal Nicolai-terms, meaning size "M" and anodized. The price will be the same, as the FR´s. Unfortunately there are no photos yet. In the newsletter (http://nicolai.dbap.de/customGates/s...newsletter.php) is a "sneak preview" section of the Helius AM. Karl-Heinz Nicolai in front of his desk, a CAD picture on the screen and his BIG hand in front of it. But i guess that there will be soon pictures, when the AM officially starts at the end of April.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Karve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,437
    How much travel will the AM have?

  10. #10
    lazy piston
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    373
    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    Hi,
    the standard shock will be a RockShox Monarch 4.2, weight will be 3,5kg with shock. I guess under normal Nicolai-terms, meaning size "M" and anodized.
    Hi Testmaen, thanks for the info!
    With the claimed weight of the Monarch at 200 grams (approximately) it means a bare frame in M would weigh around 3300 grams.
    Which is kind of a relief because my custom anodized L ('07) weighs 3390 w/o shock, and so I won't lose my sleep thinking I should go ahead and order a new Nicolai frame after only a year on my current one

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    635
    Quote Originally Posted by Karve
    How much travel will the AM have?
    According to a post from Falco in the german forum as much as the FR. I could imagine, that there will be more travel options holes on the shock link, than on the FR´s one, to adjust for a more AM-ish use, when you don´t need/want the full travel, but that´s just a presumption of mine.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,652
    Just found out that there will still be an up charge for maxel rear and 1.5 HT. I was hoping they would include it like they do with the UFO ST.

  13. #13
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    570
    Quote Originally Posted by ryates
    Just found out that there will still be an up charge for maxel rear and 1.5 HT. I was hoping they would include it like they do with the UFO ST.
    Yes, like I said, they're probably not going to change the FR any further than they have already done, namely strengthen the front end to take bigger forks, which already has been done for every FR coming out of the factory right now (like Karve's and mine).

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,652
    I forgot to mention that the Helius ST was also updated at the beginning of the year with changed angles and a new gusset plate.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Karve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,437
    Quote Originally Posted by ryates
    Just found out that there will still be an up charge for maxel rear and 1.5 HT. I was hoping they would include it like they do with the UFO ST.
    Thats a shame as the FR works well with both those options for sure. The maxle especially.. hardly any weight gain and makes that rear end solid as a rock.

    Cant wait to see the new AM. Sounds like sub 30 lb builds will be possible

  16. #16
    Hard funkin´ Kraut
    Reputation: NoStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    849
    I think all you guys have to wait till the middle of may. There will be a "Bikefest-Willingen", Germany, hopefully with Worldcup DH, 4X and XC Marathon. Nicolai will have a big booth there, and as always I´ll be there to check lot´s of new Goodies.
    I´m pretty shure Nicolai is freaking busy to get ready for showing up their new stuff, developing, welding, built up ... stuff like that so the most Information will be given then! I will take as much pics as possible and post it here, so you have fresh meat to lust over ...
    Also I have to talk to Falco again. Last Saturday I decided not to go with the Helius FR as my new ride, because of the new, hefty weight, no double or triple butted tubing (hope this to be just a rumour) and a custom geo (including sloped down Toptube and slacker Headtube) without going through R&D, which is way out of budged. Hope to find some solutions, so I can support my famous german manufactor.

    Greetings
    NoStyle

  17. #17
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    Great information guys.... Sweet I have a strengthened frame also, guess being a 1.5HS this would be natural....

    The rear maxel is well worth the extra money, makes it very stiff, not that the frame isnt stiff as it is.....

    Its all good, Go Nicolai.... You guys rock!
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  18. #18
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    570
    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Great information guys.... Sweet I have a strengthened frame also, guess being a 1.5HS this would be natural....

    The rear maxel is well worth the extra money, makes it very stiff, not that the frame isnt stiff as it is.....

    Its all good, Go Nicolai.... You guys rock!
    Whafe, I thought I detected a slightly less wide weld on your frame for the middle connection (hence slightly bigger slits on both sides of it). But could be wrong, pics weren't too close-up. After initial joy, I myself would rather have had the older frame, at least it was a bit lighter. Too bad I didn't know about the AM when I ordered.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Karve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,437
    Boozzz

    Well im not sure what to think as...

    Mine is one of the strengthened ones and comes in at
    3470g without shock
    4170g with shock (600g Ti CCDB)

    The 08 FR is supposed to be
    3900g with shock
    But im sure the reference shock is quite a light one. ( ie the pearl is 320g which would save 280g over my shock)

    The new FR is supposed to be
    4400g with shock
    which is significantly more than mine.

  20. #20
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    570
    Quote Originally Posted by Karve
    Boozzz

    Well im not sure what to think as...

    Mine is one of the strengthened ones and comes in at
    3470g without shock
    4170g with shock (600g Ti CCDB)

    The 08 FR is supposed to be
    3900g with shock
    But im sure the reference shock is quite a light one. ( ie the pearl is 320g which would save 280g over my shock)

    The new FR is supposed to be
    4400g with shock
    which is significantly more than mine.
    Hey Karve, I'm thinking that since yours doesn't have any paint, adding paint will definitely add the 250 grams. The reference shock is an X-Fusion steel coiled one, the reference frame a size M. So based on your measurements, over 4400 grams sounds about right for mine (a size L).

    I guess I will have to live with it, but am a bit bummed Nicolai didn't inform their (potential) customers of this half a kilo weight increase. I would have been better off with the AM, in hindsight, as I'm not going to put anything over 160mm in front. No wonder my calculated weight was so far off the real weight.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Karve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,437
    Yep looking at it I might have to agree with you there. Mine doesn't have the seat tube bridge which will save some weight and ur right it doesn't get lighter than a polished finish.

    Will be interesting if we all get together and anyone has a earlier model to compare the 2

    Has it been confirmed that the AM will have the same rear travel - 167mm?

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    635
    Quote Originally Posted by Karve
    Has it been confirmed that the AM will have the same rear travel - 167mm?
    Falco said it in the german forum and it´s also in the newsletter. But Falco said also, that the AM won´t have a bikepark clearence. So maybe you´re better off with the FR, even you´ll never put a fork with more than 160mm on it.

  23. #23
    Drink...sleep
    Reputation: Boozzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    570
    Quote Originally Posted by Karve
    Yep looking at it I might have to agree with you there. Mine doesn't have the seat tube bridge which will save some weight and ur right it doesn't get lighter than a polished finish.

    Will be interesting if we all get together and anyone has a earlier model to compare the 2

    Has it been confirmed that the AM will have the same rear travel - 167mm?
    In the mtb-news.de thread, Falco says the AM will have adjustable travel between 140 and 160mm, and a geometry similar to the FR.

  24. #24
    "Its All Good"
    Reputation: Whafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,697
    This sheds some light so to speak for me as to when I first measured my frame for weight, we all thought it seemed high, but am thinking it was due to it being a strengthened version, also assuming with the 1.5 HS, it will be heavier...

    I am not dissapointed with the weight at all though, it pedals and rides fantastic and is strong, which is what I wanted.....

    Some pictures.. Keep in mind that this weight has the piece of steel plate in place of the shock and also the wood and through bolt down in the bottom bracket area.....
    Attached Images Attached Images
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  25. #25
    Hard funkin´ Kraut
    Reputation: NoStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    849
    Hi to all,

    Karve did already the job for you:

    AW: New model between Helius CC and FR - first details?
    As we Helius FR many requests now have even more to it with freeride forks like totem or 66 to go, the gap between Helius FR and CC even bigger. The new model, which will close this gap, Helius AM hot and be available from April. The first orders for blind dates, we have already received. The geometry is the Helius FR resemble travel 140 to 160 mm, as well as the fork spring compatible ways, and lengths. The targeted weight incl damper is 3.5 kg. The bike is a long-travel all-mountain. For the Freeride use is no clearance. The Helius AM is our framework for alpine touring and multi-rider race without ambition. As an All Mountain, the Helius AM very balanced and uphill walk as well as downhill. Safety and convenience are playing an important role, but also leightweight and efficiency. The Helius AM is not simply a decreased FR or an increased CC, but an entirely new framework constructed, in which each new milling elaborately designed and calculated.

    And please ask me now no holes in the abdomen. Once more information, I will publish them here.

    Greetings, Falco

    Again, wait untill Bikefest Willingen! Every information before could only be speculation!

    For those of you who are not in need for the strenghened Downtube for the FR can customorder the unstrenghened one for a bit extra cash to save some weight!

    Greetings
    NoStyle

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,407
    some interesting stuff there. Still confused though! The details the UK importer have are that both new models will be essentially the same but different weight's to account for their different intentions.

    Karls post seems to imply that the AM may have adjustable travel and less clearance(I'm assuming he means top tube and not BB height)

    I'll have to check my 08 FR to see if it's also the heavier duty one. Can't say I'm that bothered personally but as it's a demo bike I'll need to be able to properly inform the new owner when the time comes to sell it on.

    Like Boozzz I'd probably go for the AM as I'm happy with running the van36.

  27. #27
    steep fast and loose :)
    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,270
    one of the reasons i've not yet ordered a Helius is as a consequence of the AM becoming available.
    i find the FR overly stiff, too freeride orientated, whereas where i ride (North East Scotland), although we have a lot of rock and great terrain, the FR is too much bike.
    my current 6 pack with the CCDB builds up around the 33 to 36lb mark, dependant on wheel choice, so i'm not too bothered about weight, but riding the FR back to back with the pack, i find the nicolai needs a lot more effort into obtaining the same results than the 6 pack. noticeably, spring rate is substantially less on the FR than the pack to obtain correct sag (200# less !!!)
    i'm hoping perhaps that the AM will be the spiritual successor for the 6 Pack, as my Dealer (Gravity Sports) has the ability to obtain Nicolai and not Turner unfortunately. I'd probably go for an RFX if it was available to me.
    i was hoping more info would start to drift out, so keep it coming folks !

    simon.

  28. #28
    steep fast and loose :)
    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,270
    just searched about, and determined that if the frameset is designed around a RS 4.2 Monarch, then it's perhaps not the best bet for the successor to the 6 Pack, as I'm definitely a coil man. i've had problems with Cove's Hustler running RP3's and RP23's blowing through and damaged seals, etc, so I'll await a coil option review on the AM before taking the plunge.
    like i said previously, it's good information, so keep it coming folks,

    simon.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,407
    the geo is to be the same so no reason you can't run a coil. Just need to take the weight into account. Still be 1lb or so lighter than the FR

  30. #30
    "El Whatever"
    Reputation: Warp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    18,826
    Kidney for sale!!!

    I want a Helius AM!!!
    Check my Site

  31. #31
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
    Reputation: crisillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    20,795
    the new newsletter is out http://nicolai.dbap.de/customGates/s...newsletter.php

    a bit of info on the AM.... the new Helius RC (like a race CC) and prices are going down 5% since they buy the aluminum in USD

  32. #32
    Hard funkin´ Kraut
    Reputation: NoStyle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    849
    Upps, I made a mistake. It´s the "Dirtmasters Festival 23.05.08 – 25.05.08"!
    Nicolai will show up their complete line-up - sounds great to demo some stuff in Germany´s best Bikepark !!!

    Here some Info from Falco fresh from the IBC:
    Helius FR 2008, for use in Bikepark totem release has been enhanced, and thus about 400 g difficult. Gr. M elox approximately 4.3 kg incl shock.

    Standart shock is as far as I know X-Fusion Vector RPV Coil.
    So Powdercoating wil add some gramms also!

    5% cheaper, damn, maybe now seems a Helius FR? Bin so uncertain ...

    Greetings
    NoStyle

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    635
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    i was hoping more info would start to drift out, so keep it coming folks !
    I keep my ears and eyes open in the german forum and keep you guys posted!

  34. #34
    wyrd bið ful ãræd
    Reputation: chinaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,725
    as we are waiting for more news on the revised FR and AM ...

    just copied these from the home website ...

    RC

    20080419 helius RC 2008 MTBR FORUM.jpg

    tried and tested CC

    20080419 helius CC 2008 MTBR FORUM.jpg

  35. #35
    'All over it!'
    Reputation: lornibear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,106

    XL Strengthened for 180mm Forks?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoStyle
    Upps, I made a mistake. It´s the "Dirtmasters Festival 23.05.08 – 25.05.08"!
    Nicolai will show up their complete line-up - sounds great to demo some stuff in Germany´s best Bikepark !!!

    Here some Info from Falco fresh from the IBC:
    Helius FR 2008, for use in Bikepark totem release has been enhanced, and thus about 400 g difficult. Gr. M elox approximately 4.3 kg incl shock.

    Standart shock is as far as I know X-Fusion Vector RPV Coil.
    So Powdercoating wil add some gramms also!

    5% cheaper, damn, maybe now seems a Helius FR? Bin so uncertain ...

    Greetings
    NoStyle
    I am interested in this. Can anybody shed any light as to whether my 2008 XL is strengthened for 180mm forks? I am really interested in a totem coil but want to make sure my warranty is covered. The XL has a different head gusset, therefore I can't check as you chaps can, (I think I am the only XL rider on the forum). My FR was in the same production run as Whafes, so I am guessing that it will be strengthened, can anybody confirm?
    Attached Images Attached Images

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •