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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Rockshox are bringing out a 160mm 29er fork this year with 571mm a2c.
    Do tell more.

  2. #52
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    Can't? I don't know more. Other than I have been told by multiple industry sources.
    Nicolai specifically asked if I wanted this frame deigned to accommodate a new 571 A2C 160mm fork from a manufacturer....Then two other sources one designer included, who have dealings with RS said the same thing but separately. However no news of timing or any further detail.

    So the frame will be designed o take it. Although I doubt I will fit it due to weight, unless everyone says its amazing!
    Aka chainline...

  3. #53
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    There is a review of the new Enduro 29 SE. It has 155mm of travel and 430 mm long chainstays, which in my opinion is very impressive. I can't post a link so you will have to specialized forum to see the review.

  4. #54
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    It is kind of impressive but the seat tube is shaped like a banana! Nicolai don't bend tubes! Even the alloy Spesh are hinged in the middle to create clearance to the seat tube.
    The video shows they tried to make a 26" bike with 29" wheels which is not what we are trying to do here. The Specialized is shorter, higher and steeper so it will change direction in tight corners quicker maybe but stability will not be as high.

    The axle path may not be usual for a Horst link either to try and avoid hitting the seat tube. It is also designed for a front mech so will it take a 2.4/2.5 tyre.

    We could have got 150mm if we had increased ST offset more or made the seat tube steeper bi that creates other compromises.
    The relative rider position, with CS that short so rear centre vs front centre will compromise climbing, you are much further over the back of the bike, realistically speaking, this aids 'playfulness' but makes or a
    More wandery less capable technical climber.

    This was always meant to be an all round bike that can take on big days but descend brilliantly. So fast, steep, sweeping terrain. Ironically like in Finale, which is the race experience I based the inputs to this design! No crazy tight nadgery terrain there. At least no like here in the UK..
    Aka chainline...

  5. #55
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    Interestingly now the geo has been reinstated I had a look at the Spesh Enduro. The 'corrected' difference for HA and ETT is only about 3mm overall in wheelbase, despite the short rear.

    I had concerns about the weight bias being too far back (if it had super short CS) on the Ion when climbing casuing it to wander and leading to a compromised riding position. With a 430mm rear but approx 1180mm overall length the front centre on the Spesh is, relatively, very long; playful it will be, easy to manual too, no doubt. However the riders position on the bike will be similar to a slack long travel 26" bike (something they were trying to achieve) in my experience this setup is compromised for climbing, particularly technical climbing. easy to very easy to manual also means hard to keep down when the ascent gets tough.

    One of the great things about a 29 is its climbing ability as well as stability in corners and descending. It was important with this Ion to try to design it so it still climbs very well even though it is slack (up to 0.5-1deg slacker than the Enduro)

    The effective SA on the Spesh is also steep at 75deg. (actual 69deg) something else I am not sure about based on my experience, as discussed earlier in the thread. We could have got more travel, or shortened the CS if we had gone down that route with the Ion, similarly if we had specced a smaller rear tyre.

    The one thing we couldn't do was create a Cannonadle Raven/V stylee bananaesque seat tube to fit it all in AND have a super short CS. Not what Nicolai do for sound engineering reasons. Those reasons apply less to carbon, but that's a whole different story.

    So an interesting announcement. Not 'revolutionary' since we have had similar, if not the same, bikes here for nearly 4 years now but then again we don't have a multi million marketing budget ;-)

    What I do know is when we put together this Ion design concept we weren't trying to create bike that felt like a 26" bike with big wheels. We were trying to create an all round, all mountain 29er that climbs well, descends amazingly, is long, low and very very fast and stable downhill on all kinds of terrain...29ers are not stable purely because of the gyroscopic effect of big wheels ;-)

    When they are finished....we will know if we succeeded ;-)
    Aka chainline...

  6. #56
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    @the_pilot: What, if anything, have Nicolai said about the "Ion 29er" in being able to have it equipped with a Pinion P1.18 gearbox? "Yes"; "... with some compromises" (> CS length), "No chance!"?

  7. #57
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    Nothing at all. I haven't asked! It's not a model in their range and they are having to produce special parts and machining programs for it already. It has been completely driven, and the suspension/pivot points designed, around 1x10 or 1x11 for efficiency and weight. I have only ever asked for that as the main use is for Enduro and All Mountain in the true sense (it has to go up as well as down). I didn't want any compromises. I already ride 1x10 without any problems.
    Aka chainline...

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Nothing at all. I haven't asked! It's not a model in their range and they are having to produce special parts and machining programs for it already. It has been completely driven, and the suspension/pivot points designed, around 1x10 or 1x11 for efficiency and weight. I have only ever asked for that as the main use is for Enduro and All Mountain in the true sense (it has to go up as well as down). I didn't want any compromises. I already ride 1x10 without any problems.
    Fair enough. Come the day my poor wallet has enough shrapnel... I'll bend Nicolai's ear.

  9. #59
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    ah, so the predicted 160mm 29er RS fork has materialised And BOS will be doing a 29er fork too.

    I think I will be staying with the 150mm Fox for now for the Ion. I like RS forks but they will be half price next year ;-) It'll be interesting to see what BOS do, still my favourite damping/feel of any fork I've tried.

    The Ion29s are due to begin production on the 12th so very soon now. I'm expecting more pictures from Nicolai as production begins.

    Have been experimenting with HA with the 150 Fox forks, steepened my current Helius to 66.9deg static with the 150mm and 30% sag. It's very very good every day, more nimble in the tight stuff, still super stable. I reckon 67deg is spot on for the HA on the Ion with the ETK able to drop it back to 66.5deg.

    The Reverb stealth with an easy remove connector is also welcome, the Ion being stealth routing.

    Can't wait now...
    Last edited by the_pilot; 04-15-2013 at 01:04 PM.
    Aka chainline...

  10. #60
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    This thread has got me thinking of a half-arsed 650B Ion 15.

    Same geo as the Helius AC 650, but with the Ion linkage. I have not tried it, but the numbers say the Ion linkage is a winner.
    Check my Site

  11. #61
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    You want full fat Warp ;-) no point messing with the skinny latte :-)
    Aka chainline...

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    You want full fat Warp ;-) no point messing with the skinny latte :-)
    Don't know, man... there are trails here where my Kiddie Wheeled AC and my 720mm bars barely get through the trees.
    Check my Site

  13. #63
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    haha, My 800mm Eastons might be a problem then, the wheels would be fine.
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  14. #64
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    In other news, apart from the Fox 34 29 150mm (Which I have currently( and the recently announced RS Pike, I know of another Manufacturer who can provide a 150mm 29er fork, with....36mm stantions and either carbon or aluminium lowers, tapered steerer and custom damping....I am in discussion with them at the moment. It is not publicly available yet but has been in development for over 1year after it was suggested to them last year.

    I will provide more information when they respond to some of my questions
    Aka chainline...

  15. #65
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    Wow,
    You guys have really thought this though. Wonder if you considered an eccentric BB? That would allow a fair bit off BB tuning in case of pedal strike on certain tracks. The payoff is the super low BB being possible when the ground tilts down. I know, complexity/reliability/weight. Hmm.
    Also wondering how stiff those RS 29 forks are, heard some complain the 34/29 is a bit noodly.
    N

  16. #66
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    I need to punch myself I think, I'm even adding up the weight of the Ion if I used a Manitou Dorado Pro, like young Whafe has on his AM. It has the right Axle to Crown measurement, but does run a touch long really at 175mm travel, and comes in at 2.9kg. Which is 700g heavier than the Fox and 1kg heavier than the RS Pike. I'll believe the Pike weight when someone weighs one mind. It would move the Ion to an estimated 30lb, which might be a touch heavy really for what I want..ticks all the stiffness/travel boxes though!
    Aka chainline...

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    In other news, apart from the Fox 34 29 150mm (Which I have currently( and the recently announced RS Pike, I know of another Manufacturer who can provide a 150mm 29er fork, with....36mm stantions and either carbon or aluminium lowers, tapered steerer and custom damping....I am in discussion with them at the moment. It is not publicly available yet but has been in development for over 1year after it was suggested to them last year.

    I will provide more information when they respond to some of my questions
    It's DT Swiss, isn't it?

  18. #68
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    Nope German-A. I do have concerns over parts availability in the event of failure and also outright cost. Waiting to see what they come back with..

    The Pike is also a 150mm 29 fork not 160mm as it turns out. Sea Otter may turn up others you never know.
    Aka chainline...

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Nope German-A. I do have concerns over parts availability in the event of failure and also outright cost. Waiting to see what they come back with...
    German-German vs. Swiss-German... same, same! Wonder if they have an ETA on it?

  20. #70
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    Staying with the Fox 34...Going to use a CCDB air at the back...Production started this week eek!
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  21. #71
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    Frame production has started.
    The design of the machining work and detail around the swingarm is complete and fabrication has begun.

    The Ion29 swing arm has a different angle and length to the normal Ion to allow for the tyre clearance of the big wheels and suck up a 2.4/2.5 in the rear.

    I'll post production pictures as they come through, but maybe keep a few back for a big flourish at the end.

    The plan is to visit Nicolai, pick up the frames and meet the guys who have made this project happen in early June.

    Ion15 29 Uncut - Idea, Design, Manufacture to trail  - words & pictures-img_0232.jpg
    Aka chainline...

  22. #72
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    dont like the look of yours. looks a bit off
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

    flash bikes for flash gits

  23. #73
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    Pilot, you lucky sod, what a great project

    neil

  24. #74
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    Looks great guys, smoking hawt... Stay with the 150 or 160 mm, the Dorado was a fill in until the single crown forks arrived.... Be happy and dam annoyed at the same time if in fact BOS come witha 29er long travel, I pleaded with them to build one when I built the Monster Truck....

    Exciting to see this coming together.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  25. #75
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    The BOS fork is xc, 80-120mm...sooo last year ;-0
    Aka chainline...

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