Ion 16 Breaks Cover

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  • 08-20-2012
    geetee1972
    Ion 16 Breaks Cover
    If you go onto the Nicolai website, there is a picture that shows the Ion 16 is being launched at Eurobike, complete with zerostack head tube.
  • 08-20-2012
    loamranger
    Great! I knew it had to happen.

    Here it is:
    comp P1060437ps2 Kopie - Fotoalbum auf MTB-News.de
  • 08-20-2012
    Momentus
    With a 170mm fork that could be the perfect "one" bike
  • 08-20-2012
    dr.juggles
    my perfect "one" bike is my helius am with 170mm lyrik...i hope they wont drop the helius am from the range when the ion 16 surfaces ... the ion looks crap imo.
  • 08-20-2012
    Momentus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dr.juggles View Post
    . the ion looks crap imo.

    I can understand why you think that. If I was a better rider and could justify the extra bikes I'd happily own an Ion14 and 16.
  • 08-21-2012
    geetee1972
    How can you be sure this is the Ion 16 rather than an 18? It looks like the headset may be zerostack and i know that the top cup on this new head tube is definitely ZS44 rather than ZS56 (as that is what is coming on my frame) so that might be the give away.

    Other than that, it looks pretty much like an Ion 18.

  • 08-21-2012
    sdr08
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    How can you be sure this is the Ion 16 rather than an 18? It looks like the headset may be zerostack and i know that the top cup on this new head tube is definitely ZS44 rather than ZS56 (as that is what is coming on my frame) so that might be the give away.

    Other than that, it looks pretty much like an Ion 18.


    Slight differences in the shock mounts to an Ion 18 so it might just be an Ion 16. But what would be the point?
    Attachment 718510
  • 08-21-2012
    geetee1972
    Quote:

    Slight differences in the shock mounts to an Ion 18 so it might just be an Ion 16. But what would be the point?
    Aha, well spotted. What would be the point in an Ion 16? I'm not sure but they're definitely working on it and I suspect there will be other changes to other models coming down the line that might explain the Ion 16.
  • 08-21-2012
    LeichteGranate
    The posted blue ano bike is a sweet Ion 18.

    The Ion 16 will have a zero stack head tube witch the blue one hasn´t got.
    Eurobike is just a few days away, so we will know soon.
  • 08-21-2012
    Whafe
    An interesting bike.... More will be revealed in a few days at Eurobike.....

    Going to be interesting to see the full line up.....
  • 08-21-2012
    LeichteGranate
    There will be some nice changes in the Helius AC range. Slighly more travel and slacker geometry as seen in the AC 29er review. And the Ion 16 of cause.
  • 08-21-2012
    loamranger
    My appologies for misleading information.
  • 08-22-2012
    raschaa
    Nicolai 2013

    Argon AM
    Frank Schneider has proven that an Argon AM is fast, aggressive and capable of
    winning. In Master Class at Megavalanche race in AlpeD'huez he became first and
    this is something special. The Argon AM, Gates Carbondrive ready, optimized for
    150mm forks and a pleasant AllMountain geometry, leaves beside the Zero Stack
    head tube and the new 12mm Thruaxle dropout no wishes unfulfilled.
    A carefree Bike for the growing Trail Center community and epic alpine tours.


    Helius TB
    The Helius TB is the successor to the RC Helius.
    A trail bike par excellence.
    Travel 120-130mm, progressive kinematic flat steering angle, Zero Stack head tube
    are the key features of these very easy to be accelerated Trail Center-weapon.


    Helius AC 26 "2013
    We have modified the geometry of the Helius AC completely
    Optimized for 160mm trail forks, fitted with a newly designed shock rocker (150 and
    140mm) and with much DNA of the Helius AM
    An all-mountain / enduro bike for everyone who is looking for a swiss army knife
    This can be both, your Everyday funride and your enduro race bike.


    Helius AC 650b 2013

    Although currently the choice of wheels and tires is limited, we decided for this
    intermediate size between 29 and 26 inches.
    The reason? Simple ... a rather small person looks a little bit lost on a 29er. A trail
    bike with a lot of fun potential when running downhill and comfortable seated position
    uphill.


    Helius AC 29 "2013
    Also in 29er AC we have set the pen again.
    We can not and do not want to compete with the carbon sub 8kg bombers which start
    peeing themself in front of the next curbside.
    The decision to make our 29er so handy and downhill orientated as possible was just
    logical. The result is a comfortable bike you can climb easyily and beeing even faster
    down the hill.


    ION 16 2013

    The coronation of the 2013er model range
    New and advanced technologies paired with a complete new formal language.
    The Tapered Zero Stack head tube ensures a low front and maximeses the traction
    on the front wheel
    Reverb Stealth cable routing for a clean look and secured cable routing
    Redesign all bearing locations, load-optimized bearings with additional sealing
    elements maintenance-free and protected against corrosion.
    142x12 rear with mounting guides.
    160mm post mount brake mount
    Geometry adjustment by ET-K (Excentric Trail Key) :-)
    A mini DH bike with 160mm which gives you pure downhill skills, but also brings you
    comofortable up the hill.


    Furthermore, the Helius AM (2013 Tapered ahead) initially remains in the program, at
    least until the customers accept the Helius AC (160mm) or Ion 16 just as worthy
    successor.

    The geometries of the Helius AC 2012 and RC 2012 are no longer available from
    04.09.2012
    All 2013 models include optional:
    - Reverb Stealth
    - ZS44/56 Zero Stack head tube as standard
  • 08-22-2012
    NoStyle
    The blue above is an ION-18 ;)

    Let me help a little to show some Details of the ION-16: :D



    Unfortunately no more pictures yet ... but please read carefully what raschaa has posted :)
  • 08-22-2012
    geetee1972
    So the Ion 16 will be fixed travel but variable geometry. No clues yet as to what that geometry will be but long and low is likely.

    I'm going to speculate a little:

    65.5 HA
    74 SA
    Medium at 595mm TT
    Large at 610mm TT
    BB +10mm
  • 08-22-2012
    norcosam
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    The blue above is an ION-18 ;)

    Let me help a little to show some Details of the ION-16: :D



    Unfortunately no more pictures yet ... but please read carefully what raschaa has posted :)


    The adjustable geometry is very nicely done,just turn the bolt dropout 180 degrees.Good work Nicolai:thumbsup::thumbsup:
  • 08-22-2012
    Whafe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    So the Ion 16 will be fixed travel but variable geometry. No clues yet as to what that geometry will be but long and low is likely.

    I'm going to speculate a little:

    65.5 HA
    74 SA
    Medium at 595mm TT
    Large at 610mm TT
    BB +10mm

    Am interested also if in fact it is going to have a really slack SA, but the final position of the saddle is in the correct spot, kind of like my AM 29er or the AFR was....
  • 08-22-2012
    raschaa
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by norcosam View Post
    The adjustable geometry is very nicely done,just turn the bolt dropout 180 degrees.Good work Nicolai:thumbsup::thumbsup:

    plus the bolts now sit in a recess in the rocker and seal against it via o-ring to keep more gunk away from the bearings...

    already did that with my ion by chamfering the holes for the bearings and squeezing a 19x1 o-ring in under the preload "lids"...
  • 08-23-2012
    geetee1972
    Whafe those are pretty much the numbers I've specced on my tailored AM that should be shipping early next month :thumbsup:
  • 08-23-2012
    raschaa
    A few Ion16 sneak peeks

    142mm Dropouts:



    PM with metal inserts!!!





    Quote Vincent Stohye (N- Salesman) "ION 16 Größe L raw (Prototyp) mit RS Monarch Plus 3553g (über 200g leichter als Helius AM L mit gleichem Dämpfer) "

    I guess this needs no translation^^

    200g lighter than an AM with same shock :eekster:
  • 08-23-2012
    geetee1972
    That would make the RS Monarch Plus 663g as a unit, which we all know is not the case.

    Current AM is 3.1kg
    Ion 16 with RS Monarch is 3.553kg
    RS Monarch weighs 325g according to the SRAM website
    Thus Ion 16 weighs 3.228kg

    The only part that might not be accounted for in this is that the mounting kit for the Ion might be a lot lighter. But if the Ion looks to be 130g heavier, the mounting kit on the AM would have to be ~400g
  • 08-23-2012
    raschaa


    no hardware whatsoever, no axle.... size L, elox



    can you do the math? i'm just to lazy :D
  • 08-23-2012
    geetee1972
    Hmmmm, so with bolts and mounting kit, it would add another 150g say, so with the Monarch Plus, that would take the AM to around 3.3kg, so yes, I guess it could be that the Ion 16 is fractionally lighter.
  • 08-23-2012
    raschaa
    Thanx :thumbsup:

    anyways, if its round about the same weight as an AM with not to slack ST angle it could be just what I want^^
  • 08-23-2012
    dipper
    I'm really liking that :thumbsup:
  • 08-23-2012
    Whafe
    The dropouts etc look stunning, true Nicolai quality...

    Going to be a very adaptable bike..... Roll on Eurobike
  • 08-23-2012
    natzx7
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    How can you be sure this is the Ion 16 rather than an 18? It looks like the headset may be zerostack and i know that the top cup on this new head tube is definitely ZS44 rather than ZS56 (as that is what is coming on my frame) so that might be the give away.

    Other than that, it looks pretty much like an Ion 18.

    What saddle is that?
  • 08-23-2012
    raschaa
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by natzx7 View Post
    What saddle is that?

    Specialized Phenom Pro Carbon, but the owner says it is not very durable.....


    Another piece of the puzzle^^



    I spy: standard iscg tabs, reverb stealth routing
  • 08-24-2012
    kalkhoffpink
    I like the smaller rocker of the AM better...this one and those on the "older" IONs are so massive....:eek:
  • 08-24-2012
    ledude
    I was considering a Helius AM Pinion...so much so that I had the deposit ready,...then news came out about the impending ION 16 release..

    reset - so now it looks like I have to consider the ION 16 too as it seems to be a replacement of the Helius AM.

    Well, I jsut got an email from Kalle himself stating that the Pinion gearbox will not be available with the ION 16 due to it not being able to fit with it's chainstays. Looks like my decision has been made for me: I'm sticking with a 2012 Helius AM Pinion

    Just thought I'd pass along the info about 'no Pinions on IONs'
  • 08-24-2012
    loamranger
    Pinion to Ion 16. Why not? They fitted a fugly gearbox to one already.
  • 08-24-2012
    the_pilot
    Right that's it. I want one in 29 flavour Ion 15-29. Tonight I shall mostly be dreamIng about bike design and colour schemes...
  • 08-24-2012
    Whafe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Right that's it. I want one in 29 flavour Ion 15-29. Tonight I shall mostly be dreamIng about bike design and colour schemes...

    Hear you dude, it has been in my dreams for days.. Have spent loads of time in bed too, AND not for what you are thinking... Am trying to get over Pnuemonia before the Whistler trip on 5th September....

    But yes, an ION 16 29er running XX1 if a no go with a Pinion.... :thumbsup::thumbsup:
  • 08-25-2012
    the_pilot
    Whafe you run Hadley hubs like I run king. Only issue with XX is neither manufacturer likely to be an early take up. I wrote to Chris King a month ago and they said no plans till they see if it takes off.

    A lighter option is the MRP bling ring on an X0 crank with the MRP micro G2SL guide with 11-36 XX cassette and a xtr or xt clutch mech. Not quite the top and bottom range but pretty close and doable now.
  • 08-28-2012
    saul
    What's gonna be the weight on the ION16 frame?
  • 08-28-2012
    The_Lecht_Rocks
    never mind all that sh1t, get well soon Whafey !
  • 08-29-2012
    Wilhelm6
    To speed up Whafey´s pulmonary recovery - two pipe dream pics of the Ion 16 fresh from Eurobike 2012 (courtesy DRAILLE Bike Loïs, Colombe, Rhone-Alpes (FR), DrailleBike.com at FaceBook.com)





    Hope you will conquer that vicious pneumonia as fast as possible!
  • 08-29-2012
    hmpoliveira
    For me this new frame ION16 has a big problem: there are no reinforcements along top/down tube and headtube!! It looks very much like AC... and since I already bent an AC frame on that place I wouldn't buy one, sorry!!!
  • 08-29-2012
    raschaa
    I wouldn't rate that too high at the moment because the '13 frames Nicolai is presenting at Eurobike were most likely built in a hurry. I figure they're more like pre-production prototypes and there is porbably gonna be more or less changes to them before they are made available to the market....

    there were quite a few "inconsistencies" with the '13 ACs that have been posted in the other thread, some had iscg tabs, others didn't, one had no seat tube gussets (maybe a S frame?)....

    anyways, seeing that the Ion16 is part of the gravity range at N and the Ion 14 + 18 both have the "AM" Gusset I'm pretty sure the 16 will get that too.... at least I darned sure hope so ;)
  • 08-29-2012
    Wilhelm6
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by irban_bike View Post
    I was considering a Helius AM Pinion...so much so that I had the deposit ready,...then news came out about the impending ION 16 release..

    reset - so now it looks like I have to consider the ION 16 too as it seems to be a replacement of the Helius AM.

    Well, I jsut got an email from Kalle himself stating that the Pinion gearbox will not be available with the ION 16 due to it not being able to fit with it's chainstays. Looks like my decision has been made for me: I'm sticking with a 2012 Helius AM Pinion

    Just thought I'd pass along the info about 'no Pinions on IONs'

    Were those chainstays designed ultra-short so that they should not fit to the gearbox? Did Karlheinz clarify his argument a shade more? Perhaps you could ask him via e-mail (past EuroBike) and face a reply.
  • 08-29-2012
    Wilhelm6
    Pics, pics, pics ...









    Courtesy guru39
  • 08-29-2012
    Wilhelm6
    BTW, wouldn´t that be a nice match to the Ion 16?



    X-FUSION Prototype
    • Single crown, inverted design
    • Travel: 160mm
    • Air sprung
    • Uses twin-tube HLR damper from Vengeance
    • External adjustments: rebound, separate high and low compression, air pressure
    • Weight: 4.3lbs (claimed, prototype)
    • Availability: TBA
    • MSRP: TBA


    Courtesy PinkBike.com
  • 08-29-2012
    ledude
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wilhelm6 View Post
    Were those chainstays designed ultra-short so that they should not fit to the gearbox? Did Karlheinz clarify his argument a shade more? Perhaps you could ask him via e-mail (past EuroBike) and face a reply.

    The email came from Kalle / Karlheinz...i should however clarify my previous statement as Karl/Kalle said that the ION 16 can't work w/ a pinion due to swingarm clearance...he didn't not say that this applies to the other IONs..
  • 08-29-2012
    Whafe
    Thanks for sharing some ripping great pictures from Eurobike.... Very nice to see...

    On the recovery now, again, don't get Pnuemonia, far from good.... Am on the speedy heal for a Wednesday 5th departure from NZ for Whistler... Yeah ha.... Feeling a million times better than this time last week... Thanks for the get well massages...

    I cant stop steering at the ION 16!
  • 08-30-2012
    the_pilot
    Freudian slip Whafe? "steering"

    In my mind now is would it ride any different to an AM/AC.

    Thinking 29er. 150mm as on other thread but with the 'new' goodies e.g. easy geometry change, revised bearings, revised dropouts, brake mount/headtube.
  • 08-30-2012
    Warp
    Those Ion 16 are just way too sexy.

    Get well, Whafe!!
    Rock on 5-Sept!
  • 08-30-2012
    the_pilot
    Has anyone ridden an Ion compared to an AM or AC, more an AM I guess.

    I am very tempted to ask Nicolai to build me a 150mm 29er Ion based on the 16/18 as it has a number of features Nicolai wouldnt do for me earlier this year. However they have at least listened and begun to make them available.

    So I have a great 29er AC/AM hybrid, I love it. None of the features is a compelling reason to change. So I am interested as to whether there is any discernable ride quality/character differences.
  • 08-30-2012
    Warp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    So I am interested as to whether there is any discernable ride quality/character differences.

    No experience, but here are some comments on the Ion 14 from Antonio Osuna (the guy behind the Jeronimo Cycles designs).

    Linkage Design: Nicolai ION 14 2011

    Also discussed here...

    http://forums.mtbr.com/nicolai/ion-1...ts-710267.html

    Basically, what he says is that is very similar to the Helius line and has good characteristics. The main difference being the leverage ratio being linear on the Ion against the linear-progressive of the Helius.

    The Ion 14 (according tho those numbers) should pedal a little firmer than the Helius and be a little less sensitive in the early travel... which is desirable on a 4X bike like the Ion 14.

    The Ion 16 may be an entirely different animal, though. It's brand new, so hardly anybody has ridden it.
  • 08-30-2012
    Wilhelm6
    Finally the tech sheet:

  • 09-10-2012
    Wilhelm6
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by irban_bike View Post
    The email came from Kalle / Karlheinz...i should however clarify my previous statement as Karl/Kalle said that the ION 16 can't work w/ a pinion due to swingarm clearance...he didn't not say that this applies to the other IONs..

    Today Vincent STOYHE of NICOLAI communicated that the "Ion 16" mantadory will be available with the PINION P1.18 gearbox from around Easter 2013. That´s good news.
  • 09-10-2012
    ledude
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wilhelm6 View Post
    Today Vincent STOYHE of NICOLAI communicated that the "Ion 16" mantadory will be available with the PINION P1.18 gearbox from around Easter 2013. That´s good news.

    Good to know, thanks Wilhelm...regardless - I just placed an order for a Helius AM...I like the looks of the Helius AM over the ION :thumbsup:
  • 09-10-2012
    Wilhelm6
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by irban_bike View Post
    Good to know, thanks Wilhelm...regardless - I just placed an order for a Helius AM...I like the looks of the Helius AM over the ION :thumbsup:

    Gratz! Would be nice if your Helius AM could sport some of the innovations of the Ion 16 like ZS, PM, new sealed bearing design, new 142mm drop-outs. :thumbsup:
  • 09-10-2012
    kalkhoffpink
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wilhelm6 View Post
    Gratz! Would be nice if your Helius AM could sport some of the innovations of the Ion 16 like ZS, PM, new sealed bearing design, new 142mm drop-outs. :thumbsup:

    I would also choose the AM over the ION 16 just because of the variable rear suspension and overall looks. Do not need ZS, I use some spacers anyway and 135x12 suits me fine. The only thing would be the new bearing design, but the actual one of the AM is not the worst at all….

    Greez, Andy
  • 09-10-2012
    loamranger
    Citec Wheels
  • 09-10-2012
    Wilhelm6
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by loamranger View Post

    Dunno. Just made a research of the German forum MtB-News.de, only one hit, no suitable informations. If you are interested, you can read a current test in the magazine "World of Mountainbiking", issue 7, 2012, pp. 70-80 online for free (in German, translate it online yourself) or buy a download immediately for € 2,99 (see heading line of the linked website).
  • 10-02-2012
    honourablegeorge
    Man, I'm sorely tempted. When are these available?
  • 10-02-2012
    raschaa
    Production plan for the Ion16 is January so will be sending mid to end of February... Vincent said they were going to build as many as they get orders. One in Raw, size L is for me! :D

    The aforementioned wheels have one serious drawback. Rim inside width is very small at 17mm and will probably only handle a max tire width of 2.2. I have a pair of those "cheap chinese carbon rims" coming my way that I am going to lace to my SunRingle Charger Pros with 24 spokes. I hope those do the job on my Ion 16 then...
  • 10-06-2012
    pfalz
    Latest tech sheet here
  • 10-11-2012
    nurbos
    The Price is 2299 Euro, same as ION20:confused:
  • 10-11-2012
    pfalz
    Sure? I had a short chat with Vinc a few days ago, he said 2199 Euro...:???::confused:
  • 10-11-2012
    nurbos
    got an e-mail from him yesterday:confused:
  • 10-12-2012
    kalkhoffpink
    400 Euros+ from an Helius AM???...so we have to pay the R&D for it...:eekster:
  • 10-12-2012
    nurbos
    ~3469 Euros for anodized frame with ccdbair /if shock price is the same as ion20/
    I guess pinion version will be ~5000 Euros
    That's the most expensive 160mm frame on the planet...
  • 11-11-2012
    drakche
    Has anybody found out if the ION 16 will allow 170 mm or even 180 mm forks? I want to send them another email, but they didn't answer my first mail regarding some questions about ION 18.

    Do they even answer the info[at]nicolai . net mail?
  • 11-11-2012
    kalkhoffpink
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drakche View Post
    Has anybody found out if the ION 16 will allow 170 mm or even 180 mm forks? I want to send them another email, but they didn't answer my first mail regarding some questions about ION 18.

    Do they even answer the info[at]nicolai . net mail?

    Sometimes it can take a while to answer....

    As far as I know the standard ION 16 will allow 160mm forks, but you can order it with a stronger down tube for 170mm. 180mm is not allowed yet….
  • 11-11-2012
    drakche
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kalkhoffpink View Post
    Sometimes it can take a while to answer....

    As far as I know the standard ION 16 will allow 160mm forks, but you can order it with a stronger down tube for 170mm. 180mm is not allowed yet….

    thanks man.
    I asked for 180 since the length of x-fusion vengeance @ 170 is 565 mm, same as 180 mm fork. I hope the will allow it. I think that 160/180 mm conf would be ideal allrounder. :)
  • 11-11-2012
    kalkhoffpink
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drakche View Post
    thanks man.
    I asked for 180 since the length of x-fusion vengeance @ 170 is 565 mm, same as 180 mm fork. I hope the will allow it. I think that 160/180 mm conf would be ideal allrounder. :)

    I think that the idea is not to restrict the fork because of the lenght, but for the things you would do with 180mm in front. IMHO the bike is not made for stuff you normally use an ION 18 for. The lack of an 180mm option has been discussed in the german forum too and the most were disappointed about that.
  • 11-11-2012
    drakche
    so basically the restriction isn't pn travel but on the use of the bike. Because I'd use the bike for enduro/freeride (not even half of rampage stuff.).
  • 11-12-2012
    raschaa
    to chime in with my fellow countryman, N is most likely trying to make sure the ion16 is not used beyond its designated spectrum. FR is a term that conjures up visions of hucking and the likes which the frame has not been designed for. Its intended use is enduro racing where alot of guys are riding 140-150mm bikes. as is typical for any Nicolai it will probably withstand quite a bit of abuse, but alas there are a lot of folks out there that will break pretty much anything...

    as mentioned above this has been the center of quite a bit of debate in geman mtb-news forum. bottom line is that most buyers will be running it with a 170mm fork seeing that that is more or less standard for that bike category. it will probably do just fine as long as you don't start "heavy hitting" with it.

    if in doubt the Ion18 is probably the bike for you and all owners I have spoken with rave about its uphill capabilities, albeit it is not a xc bike^^

    regarding your mail not getting answered; their second salesperson Moritz is off work due to a massive crash at Megavalanche and Vincent is drowning in mails (up to 400 daily...).
  • 11-12-2012
    drakche
    I've seen the debate, but alas I don't know German. I've thought about the ION 18, but I think that it is to heavy for Enduro racing. I thought mainly because I'd like to run it with 170 X-Fusion (which is the same length as an 180 mm fork) or Marz 55 just to have a bit of reserve if the going get tough. No big hucking and rampage style riding. The most extreme will be something like Whistler or some shore-like technical riding. But it will mainly be a enduro ride and epic all-mountain travelling, with an occasional light FR. But seeing from the videos The Helius AM was more than capable for that stuff, So I'm hoping that the ION 16 will be more than up to it. I like it more because of the awesome HA.
  • 11-12-2012
    raschaa
    Yo, right there with you M8! the geo is what makes it so attractive^^

    I've ordered mine and will be running it with a lyrik@175mm. I'll try to stay away from the DH-tracks or better yet use my Ion20 for those. I'm pretty good at hitting my lines and staying clean so I'm not worried about stability....
  • 11-12-2012
    kalkhoffpink
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drakche View Post
    I've seen the debate, but alas I don't know German. I've thought about the ION 18, but I think that it is to heavy for Enduro racing. I thought mainly because I'd like to run it with 170 X-Fusion (which is the same length as an 180 mm fork) or Marz 55 just to have a bit of reserve if the going get tough. No big hucking and rampage style riding. The most extreme will be something like Whistler or some shore-like technical riding. But it will mainly be a enduro ride and epic all-mountain travelling, with an occasional light FR. But seeing from the videos The Helius AM was more than capable for that stuff, So I'm hoping that the ION 16 will be more than up to it. I like it more because of the awesome HA.

    If you expect the ION 16 to be more stable than the AM than you are wrong.
    One hint is the frame weight of the ION 16 which is 200g less than the AM.
    Next is you can order the AM with the AFR downtube which is than good for
    180mm forks. The geo of course is not new-school and the suspension is more
    linear than progeressive. The ION 16 still has no gussets in front, but might get them
    when finally released. For Enduro-races the ION 16 should be the better bike. For a
    Do-It-All-Bike I personally would prefer the AM, and I am close to pull the trigger on it.
  • 11-12-2012
    drakche
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kalkhoffpink View Post
    If you expect the ION 16 to be more stable than the AM than you are wrong.
    One hint is the frame weight of the ION 16 which is 200g less than the AM.
    Next is you can order the AM with the AFR downtube which is than good for
    180mm forks. The geo of course is not new-school and the suspension is more
    linear than progeressive. The ION 16 still has no gussets in front, but might get them
    when finally released. For Enduro-races the ION 16 should be the better bike. For a
    Do-It-All-Bike I personally would prefer the AM, and I am close to pull the trigger on it.

    Maybe there will be an option for ION 16 with ION 18 downtube. Although it's lighter for 200g, I think it wont represent a problem, since N frames are beefier than the rest of it's class. I think it will get the gussets up front. And the seat tube gusset differs from the rest of the ION lineup. So pretty much, until February, we have no idea how will it look. It's really a tough call between the 18 and the 16, but I think that the travel in the 18 is a bit overkill, in the afr you could take the travel down to 160. I think I'm gonna wait a bit before pulling the trigger, because I really like the 16, and would like to see the difference between the ION 16 And Helius AM in some reviews. There are pros and there are cons, always.
  • 11-12-2012
    honourablegeorge
    Reading Nicolai's own blurb, they talk about keeping the Helius AM in the lineup until customers accept the Ion 16 as a replacement.

    I'd prefer the updates on the Ion (12x142 & tapered HT) to the AM, and of course the 200g saving - just not sure if it'll pedal as well - it's billed as "mini DH" as opposed to AM.
  • 11-12-2012
    kalkhoffpink
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drakche View Post
    Maybe there will be an option for ION 16 with ION 18 downtube. Although it's lighter for 200g, I think it wont represent a problem, since N frames are beefier than the rest of it's class. I think it will get the gussets up front. And the seat tube gusset differs from the rest of the ION lineup. So pretty much, until February, we have no idea how will it look. It's really a tough call between the 18 and the 16, but I think that the travel in the 18 is a bit overkill, in the afr you could take the travel down to 160. I think I'm gonna wait a bit before pulling the trigger, because I really like the 16, and would like to see the difference between the ION 16 And Helius AM in some reviews. There are pros and there are cons, always.


    A shootout between those two would be very interesting, though they are made for different tasks. For now there will be the stronger downtube for 170mm forks, like said before. Maybe you are lucky and there will be a second option for 180mm.
  • 11-12-2012
    raschaa
    last talk with Vincent few days ago he said it was coming exactly as presented at eurobike so chances for more travel, gussets etc. are pretty much non-existent....
  • 11-12-2012
    drakche
    Not even the fancy CNC-ed ION gusset. :( bummer. well, 170 is enough for me. Although it's strange that the headtube gussets are omitted.
  • 11-12-2012
    geetee1972
    Is the Ion 16 really going to be 200g lighter than the AM? That would mean the mounting hardware and axle together would have to weigh 300g which seems pretty unlikely.

    If you ordered an AM now it would ship with a 44/56 tapered head tube, which is what I have on my custom one. Interestingly the geometry I specced on my custom frame is identical to that of a medium Ion 16 (the BB is half way between the two settings at +10mm) and it rides and handles better than my stock large.
  • 11-12-2012
    the_pilot
    I would say the omission of the gussets & associated welding alone will be a chunk of weight.
    Geetee, you got the 44/56, I'm jealous I badgered them for 6 months for that! I'm still kinda annoyed they incorporated all my requests into the new AC29 only 3 months after they delivered mine (albeit 3 months late!) well except the too short TT, and the shorter travel, and the shorter stroke shock....well almost ;-)
    I'd like to ride one. To see how the suspension felt. I didn't like their statement about changing the pivot points to stiffen the back up under pedalling, be interesting to are if that's a noticeable difference in compliance on technical climbs..
  • 11-13-2012
    geetee1972
    Quote:

    I would say the omission of the gussets & associated welding alone will be a chunk of weight.
    Sure but the quoted weight at this point is 3.21kg with axle and mounting hardware so if it's going to be 200g lighter than the AM, that means the axle and mounting hardware have to weigh 310g which I think seems a bit unrealistic. An axle weighs 90g IIRC so that would make the mounting hardware over 200g and I am not even sure that the AM's quoted weight of 3.1kg doesn't include the mounting hardware. I weighed my painted large at 3.18kg with hardware.
  • 11-13-2012
    kalkhoffpink
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    Sure but the quoted weight at this point is 3.21kg with axle and mounting hardware so if it's going to be 200g lighter than the AM, that means the axle and mounting hardware have to weigh 310g which I think seems a bit unrealistic. An axle weighs 90g IIRC so that would make the mounting hardware over 200g and I am not even sure that the AM's quoted weight of 3.1kg doesn't include the mounting hardware. I weighed my painted large at 3.18kg with hardware.


    Maybe your weight has been a little too optimistic?

    This is an official statement from Vincent in the german IBC forum:

    p.s. ION 16 Größe L raw (Prototyp) mit RS Monarch Plus 3553g (über 200g leichter als Helius AM L mit gleichem Dämpfer)

    Translated:

    p.s. ION 16 size L raw (Prototyp) with RS Monarch Plus 3553g (more than 200g lighter than Helius AM L with same shock)
  • 11-27-2012
    honourablegeorge
    Exchanged some mails with Nicolai today, they say the 16 climbs as well as the AM but acceletates better, and is lighter.

    I might just be ordering one.
  • 12-06-2012
    xixo one
    Hi guys , any new of the head tube ?
    I´m considering tu buy the ION16 but I think that a 180 fork is necessary for that frame , I have a Jekyll 11 carbon that I´ve broken the rear few days ago with a 34 talas and I think that the ION 16 it can be "the ideal frame" for a hard enduro if can mount a 180 talas for example
  • 12-07-2012
    geetee1972
    Xixo - the frame's not even been released yet. No one outside of Nicolai's close circle has ridden one so I'm not sure how you conclude it needs a 180mm fork. Besides, I can't recall seeing anyone win an Enduro event on a 180mm fork. It's just too heavy when a 160mm fork does the job just as well.

    If you want to fit a 180mm fork then you need/want the Ion 18 and you're not going to be competing in Enduro events. If the Ion 16 is indeed going to be lighter than the AM, then there is no way they could achieve that design spec and still warranty it for 170/180mm forks. I think that's the point of the Ion 16; it's lighter than the AM (purportedly) for competitive Enduro use, which means you only need a 160mm fork.
  • 12-07-2012
    xixo one
    but the ion 16 is only 200gr lighter than AM , the good of the ion 16 is the geo and angles for climb and the 65-66 degrees for descend, for that reason I think that a 180 talas for enduro routes is the key for this frame , Mark Weir fits a 180 sometimes and Clementz a 170 likryk
  • 12-07-2012
    Warp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by xixo one View Post
    but the ion 16 is only 200gr lighter than AM , the good of the ion 16 is the geo and angles for climb and the 65-66 degrees for descend, for that reason I think that a 180 talas for enduro routes is the key for this frame...

    With a Nicolai you can have any geo and any angles you want... for a more than reasonable fee.

    You can also have Nicolai to build the Ion 16 with gussets or a heavier tubing in order to run a longer fork if you ask for it. Again, for a surcharge.

    You have no limits with what Nicolai can do as long as you are willing to pay for it.

    200grs is a good chunk of metal in a frame. Remember you're using the same aluminum alloy, it's a lot of wall thickness/material removed from somewhere.

    I'm kind of in the middle on this topic... agreed that 20mm travel from spec should not be an issue on ANY frame. However, from 160mm to 180mm you have a LOT of difference in the intended use.

    180mm is FR territory. Paint it with any colour you want. A 180mm fork is capable of stupid stuff. A 160mm fork is a glorified trail fork (Lyrik, Nixon, etc.).

    The only situation where I see fit a 180mm fork for enduro is to tackle stupid steep downhill stuff (think Morzine) and it will likely hurt the handling everywhere else unless you run some sort of travel adjustment. That or compensate with running a little firmer fork (you'll be receiving most hits on the front end anyways) to keep ride height a little high.
  • 12-09-2012
    raschaa
    I'm with y'all on that one. can't see the Ion16 running a 180 fork because the riding that would warrant 180mm up front is just not what the frame has been designed for. as warp points out you can have your Ion16 with beefed-up downtube and/or gussets but that would be defeating the purpose, you might as well order the Ion18.

    on another note the Ion16 testing prototypes that N has been bashing for the past couple of months have been equipped with Suntour Durolux (N has a Deal with Suntour) which have an A2C of 565mm. the geo specs show max. A2C as 545mm so they have been testing with forklength in the 180mm ballpark, if this was done by design as "stress testing" is anybodys guess...

    german forum discussions have some voices saying they will be running a 170 Lyrik set up with a lot of sag (myself included^^)

    I figure anyone interested in the Ion16 just has to do a realistic evaluation of their intended riding with the bike, their riding style and obviously rider weight. its definitely not going to be a lightweight mountain goat that you can beat the s**t out of on the descents...
  • 12-13-2012
    raschaa
    Tech sheet has been updated, Fork A2C is now at 555mm -> 170mm

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...51&output=html
  • 12-13-2012
    Dutshlander
    :thumbsup:NICOLAI numeric magazine 2013:thumbsup:
  • 12-13-2012
    Dutshlander
    2013 Prospect is online NICOLAI numeric magazine 2013 double sorry:cool:
  • 12-13-2012
    samwell
    Soon mine will be here :-)
    I can't wait !!!
    Edit : I didn't see I was in the Ion 16 post, mine will have a little bit more travel :D
    But this ion 16 is sexy !!! :cool:
  • 12-14-2012
    loamranger
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by samwell View Post
    Soon mine will be here :-)
    I can't wait !!!

    great, post some photos when you can.
  • 12-14-2012
    xixo one
    I´ve ordered mine few days ago too ! :)
  • 12-15-2012
    Axe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dr.juggles View Post
    my perfect "one" bike is my helius am with 170mm lyrik...i hope they wont drop the helius am from the range when the ion 16 surfaces ... the ion looks crap imo.

    My 170mm Lyrik (Coil, DH damper) for Helius AM should be here on Tuesday. I hope you are right.

    It would not be my "one" bike though..

    I am not wishing that I have waited for ION.
  • 12-18-2012
    xixo one
    what diameter of seatclamp it needs , anyone knows?
  • 12-18-2012
    raschaa
    34,9mm
  • 12-18-2012
    xixo one
    :thumbsup:
  • 12-27-2012
    xixo one
    Hi everyone, I have a doubt with the front derailleur , this:

    Shimano XTR M985 10 Speed Double Front Derailleur - E2 Type

    Is compatible with the ion 16 ?

    I would like to mount a full xtr group and I have that derailleur on my actual bike
  • 12-27-2012
    raschaa
    don't think so... you need high direct mount

  • 12-28-2012
    xixo one
    Thanks , again :)