Ion 16 Breaks Cover

Printable View

  • 08-20-2012
    geetee1972
    Ion 16 Breaks Cover
    If you go onto the Nicolai website, there is a picture that shows the Ion 16 is being launched at Eurobike, complete with zerostack head tube.
  • 08-20-2012
    loamranger
    Great! I knew it had to happen.

    Here it is:
    comp P1060437ps2 Kopie - Fotoalbum auf MTB-News.de
  • 08-20-2012
    Momentus
    With a 170mm fork that could be the perfect "one" bike
  • 08-20-2012
    dr.juggles
    my perfect "one" bike is my helius am with 170mm lyrik...i hope they wont drop the helius am from the range when the ion 16 surfaces ... the ion looks crap imo.
  • 08-20-2012
    Momentus
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dr.juggles View Post
    . the ion looks crap imo.

    I can understand why you think that. If I was a better rider and could justify the extra bikes I'd happily own an Ion14 and 16.
  • 08-21-2012
    geetee1972
    How can you be sure this is the Ion 16 rather than an 18? It looks like the headset may be zerostack and i know that the top cup on this new head tube is definitely ZS44 rather than ZS56 (as that is what is coming on my frame) so that might be the give away.

    Other than that, it looks pretty much like an Ion 18.

  • 08-21-2012
    sdr08
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    How can you be sure this is the Ion 16 rather than an 18? It looks like the headset may be zerostack and i know that the top cup on this new head tube is definitely ZS44 rather than ZS56 (as that is what is coming on my frame) so that might be the give away.

    Other than that, it looks pretty much like an Ion 18.


    Slight differences in the shock mounts to an Ion 18 so it might just be an Ion 16. But what would be the point?
    Attachment 718510
  • 08-21-2012
    geetee1972
    Quote:

    Slight differences in the shock mounts to an Ion 18 so it might just be an Ion 16. But what would be the point?
    Aha, well spotted. What would be the point in an Ion 16? I'm not sure but they're definitely working on it and I suspect there will be other changes to other models coming down the line that might explain the Ion 16.
  • 08-21-2012
    LeichteGranate
    The posted blue ano bike is a sweet Ion 18.

    The Ion 16 will have a zero stack head tube witch the blue one hasn´t got.
    Eurobike is just a few days away, so we will know soon.
  • 08-21-2012
    Whafe
    An interesting bike.... More will be revealed in a few days at Eurobike.....

    Going to be interesting to see the full line up.....
  • 08-21-2012
    LeichteGranate
    There will be some nice changes in the Helius AC range. Slighly more travel and slacker geometry as seen in the AC 29er review. And the Ion 16 of cause.
  • 08-21-2012
    loamranger
    My appologies for misleading information.
  • 08-22-2012
    raschaa
    Nicolai 2013

    Argon AM
    Frank Schneider has proven that an Argon AM is fast, aggressive and capable of
    winning. In Master Class at Megavalanche race in AlpeD'huez he became first and
    this is something special. The Argon AM, Gates Carbondrive ready, optimized for
    150mm forks and a pleasant AllMountain geometry, leaves beside the Zero Stack
    head tube and the new 12mm Thruaxle dropout no wishes unfulfilled.
    A carefree Bike for the growing Trail Center community and epic alpine tours.


    Helius TB
    The Helius TB is the successor to the RC Helius.
    A trail bike par excellence.
    Travel 120-130mm, progressive kinematic flat steering angle, Zero Stack head tube
    are the key features of these very easy to be accelerated Trail Center-weapon.


    Helius AC 26 "2013
    We have modified the geometry of the Helius AC completely
    Optimized for 160mm trail forks, fitted with a newly designed shock rocker (150 and
    140mm) and with much DNA of the Helius AM
    An all-mountain / enduro bike for everyone who is looking for a swiss army knife
    This can be both, your Everyday funride and your enduro race bike.


    Helius AC 650b 2013

    Although currently the choice of wheels and tires is limited, we decided for this
    intermediate size between 29 and 26 inches.
    The reason? Simple ... a rather small person looks a little bit lost on a 29er. A trail
    bike with a lot of fun potential when running downhill and comfortable seated position
    uphill.


    Helius AC 29 "2013
    Also in 29er AC we have set the pen again.
    We can not and do not want to compete with the carbon sub 8kg bombers which start
    peeing themself in front of the next curbside.
    The decision to make our 29er so handy and downhill orientated as possible was just
    logical. The result is a comfortable bike you can climb easyily and beeing even faster
    down the hill.


    ION 16 2013

    The coronation of the 2013er model range
    New and advanced technologies paired with a complete new formal language.
    The Tapered Zero Stack head tube ensures a low front and maximeses the traction
    on the front wheel
    Reverb Stealth cable routing for a clean look and secured cable routing
    Redesign all bearing locations, load-optimized bearings with additional sealing
    elements maintenance-free and protected against corrosion.
    142x12 rear with mounting guides.
    160mm post mount brake mount
    Geometry adjustment by ET-K (Excentric Trail Key) :-)
    A mini DH bike with 160mm which gives you pure downhill skills, but also brings you
    comofortable up the hill.


    Furthermore, the Helius AM (2013 Tapered ahead) initially remains in the program, at
    least until the customers accept the Helius AC (160mm) or Ion 16 just as worthy
    successor.

    The geometries of the Helius AC 2012 and RC 2012 are no longer available from
    04.09.2012
    All 2013 models include optional:
    - Reverb Stealth
    - ZS44/56 Zero Stack head tube as standard
  • 08-22-2012
    NoStyle
    The blue above is an ION-18 ;)

    Let me help a little to show some Details of the ION-16: :D



    Unfortunately no more pictures yet ... but please read carefully what raschaa has posted :)
  • 08-22-2012
    geetee1972
    So the Ion 16 will be fixed travel but variable geometry. No clues yet as to what that geometry will be but long and low is likely.

    I'm going to speculate a little:

    65.5 HA
    74 SA
    Medium at 595mm TT
    Large at 610mm TT
    BB +10mm
  • 08-22-2012
    norcosam
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NoStyle View Post
    The blue above is an ION-18 ;)

    Let me help a little to show some Details of the ION-16: :D



    Unfortunately no more pictures yet ... but please read carefully what raschaa has posted :)


    The adjustable geometry is very nicely done,just turn the bolt dropout 180 degrees.Good work Nicolai:thumbsup::thumbsup:
  • 08-22-2012
    Whafe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    So the Ion 16 will be fixed travel but variable geometry. No clues yet as to what that geometry will be but long and low is likely.

    I'm going to speculate a little:

    65.5 HA
    74 SA
    Medium at 595mm TT
    Large at 610mm TT
    BB +10mm

    Am interested also if in fact it is going to have a really slack SA, but the final position of the saddle is in the correct spot, kind of like my AM 29er or the AFR was....
  • 08-22-2012
    raschaa
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by norcosam View Post
    The adjustable geometry is very nicely done,just turn the bolt dropout 180 degrees.Good work Nicolai:thumbsup::thumbsup:

    plus the bolts now sit in a recess in the rocker and seal against it via o-ring to keep more gunk away from the bearings...

    already did that with my ion by chamfering the holes for the bearings and squeezing a 19x1 o-ring in under the preload "lids"...
  • 08-23-2012
    geetee1972
    Whafe those are pretty much the numbers I've specced on my tailored AM that should be shipping early next month :thumbsup:
  • 08-23-2012
    raschaa
    A few Ion16 sneak peeks

    142mm Dropouts:



    PM with metal inserts!!!





    Quote Vincent Stohye (N- Salesman) "ION 16 Größe L raw (Prototyp) mit RS Monarch Plus 3553g (über 200g leichter als Helius AM L mit gleichem Dämpfer) "

    I guess this needs no translation^^

    200g lighter than an AM with same shock :eekster:
  • 08-23-2012
    geetee1972
    That would make the RS Monarch Plus 663g as a unit, which we all know is not the case.

    Current AM is 3.1kg
    Ion 16 with RS Monarch is 3.553kg
    RS Monarch weighs 325g according to the SRAM website
    Thus Ion 16 weighs 3.228kg

    The only part that might not be accounted for in this is that the mounting kit for the Ion might be a lot lighter. But if the Ion looks to be 130g heavier, the mounting kit on the AM would have to be ~400g
  • 08-23-2012
    raschaa


    no hardware whatsoever, no axle.... size L, elox



    can you do the math? i'm just to lazy :D
  • 08-23-2012
    geetee1972
    Hmmmm, so with bolts and mounting kit, it would add another 150g say, so with the Monarch Plus, that would take the AM to around 3.3kg, so yes, I guess it could be that the Ion 16 is fractionally lighter.
  • 08-23-2012
    raschaa
    Thanx :thumbsup:

    anyways, if its round about the same weight as an AM with not to slack ST angle it could be just what I want^^
  • 08-23-2012
    dipper
    I'm really liking that :thumbsup:
  • 08-23-2012
    Whafe
    The dropouts etc look stunning, true Nicolai quality...

    Going to be a very adaptable bike..... Roll on Eurobike
  • 08-23-2012
    natzx7
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    How can you be sure this is the Ion 16 rather than an 18? It looks like the headset may be zerostack and i know that the top cup on this new head tube is definitely ZS44 rather than ZS56 (as that is what is coming on my frame) so that might be the give away.

    Other than that, it looks pretty much like an Ion 18.

    What saddle is that?
  • 08-23-2012
    raschaa
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by natzx7 View Post
    What saddle is that?

    Specialized Phenom Pro Carbon, but the owner says it is not very durable.....


    Another piece of the puzzle^^



    I spy: standard iscg tabs, reverb stealth routing
  • 08-24-2012
    kalkhoffpink
    I like the smaller rocker of the AM better...this one and those on the "older" IONs are so massive....:eek:
  • 08-24-2012
    ledude
    I was considering a Helius AM Pinion...so much so that I had the deposit ready,...then news came out about the impending ION 16 release..

    reset - so now it looks like I have to consider the ION 16 too as it seems to be a replacement of the Helius AM.

    Well, I jsut got an email from Kalle himself stating that the Pinion gearbox will not be available with the ION 16 due to it not being able to fit with it's chainstays. Looks like my decision has been made for me: I'm sticking with a 2012 Helius AM Pinion

    Just thought I'd pass along the info about 'no Pinions on IONs'
  • 08-24-2012
    loamranger
    Pinion to Ion 16. Why not? They fitted a fugly gearbox to one already.
  • 08-24-2012
    the_pilot
    Right that's it. I want one in 29 flavour Ion 15-29. Tonight I shall mostly be dreamIng about bike design and colour schemes...
  • 08-24-2012
    Whafe
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    Right that's it. I want one in 29 flavour Ion 15-29. Tonight I shall mostly be dreamIng about bike design and colour schemes...

    Hear you dude, it has been in my dreams for days.. Have spent loads of time in bed too, AND not for what you are thinking... Am trying to get over Pnuemonia before the Whistler trip on 5th September....

    But yes, an ION 16 29er running XX1 if a no go with a Pinion.... :thumbsup::thumbsup:
  • 08-25-2012
    the_pilot
    Whafe you run Hadley hubs like I run king. Only issue with XX is neither manufacturer likely to be an early take up. I wrote to Chris King a month ago and they said no plans till they see if it takes off.

    A lighter option is the MRP bling ring on an X0 crank with the MRP micro G2SL guide with 11-36 XX cassette and a xtr or xt clutch mech. Not quite the top and bottom range but pretty close and doable now.
  • 08-28-2012
    saul
    What's gonna be the weight on the ION16 frame?
  • 08-28-2012
    The_Lecht_Rocks
    never mind all that sh1t, get well soon Whafey !
  • 08-29-2012
    Wilhelm6
    To speed up Whafey´s pulmonary recovery - two pipe dream pics of the Ion 16 fresh from Eurobike 2012 (courtesy DRAILLE Bike Loïs, Colombe, Rhone-Alpes (FR), DrailleBike.com at FaceBook.com)





    Hope you will conquer that vicious pneumonia as fast as possible!
  • 08-29-2012
    hmpoliveira
    For me this new frame ION16 has a big problem: there are no reinforcements along top/down tube and headtube!! It looks very much like AC... and since I already bent an AC frame on that place I wouldn't buy one, sorry!!!
  • 08-29-2012
    raschaa
    I wouldn't rate that too high at the moment because the '13 frames Nicolai is presenting at Eurobike were most likely built in a hurry. I figure they're more like pre-production prototypes and there is porbably gonna be more or less changes to them before they are made available to the market....

    there were quite a few "inconsistencies" with the '13 ACs that have been posted in the other thread, some had iscg tabs, others didn't, one had no seat tube gussets (maybe a S frame?)....

    anyways, seeing that the Ion16 is part of the gravity range at N and the Ion 14 + 18 both have the "AM" Gusset I'm pretty sure the 16 will get that too.... at least I darned sure hope so ;)
  • 08-29-2012
    Wilhelm6
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by irban_bike View Post
    I was considering a Helius AM Pinion...so much so that I had the deposit ready,...then news came out about the impending ION 16 release..

    reset - so now it looks like I have to consider the ION 16 too as it seems to be a replacement of the Helius AM.

    Well, I jsut got an email from Kalle himself stating that the Pinion gearbox will not be available with the ION 16 due to it not being able to fit with it's chainstays. Looks like my decision has been made for me: I'm sticking with a 2012 Helius AM Pinion

    Just thought I'd pass along the info about 'no Pinions on IONs'

    Were those chainstays designed ultra-short so that they should not fit to the gearbox? Did Karlheinz clarify his argument a shade more? Perhaps you could ask him via e-mail (past EuroBike) and face a reply.
  • 08-29-2012
    Wilhelm6
    Pics, pics, pics ...









    Courtesy guru39
  • 08-29-2012
    Wilhelm6
    BTW, wouldn´t that be a nice match to the Ion 16?



    X-FUSION Prototype
    • Single crown, inverted design
    • Travel: 160mm
    • Air sprung
    • Uses twin-tube HLR damper from Vengeance
    • External adjustments: rebound, separate high and low compression, air pressure
    • Weight: 4.3lbs (claimed, prototype)
    • Availability: TBA
    • MSRP: TBA


    Courtesy PinkBike.com
  • 08-29-2012
    ledude
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wilhelm6 View Post
    Were those chainstays designed ultra-short so that they should not fit to the gearbox? Did Karlheinz clarify his argument a shade more? Perhaps you could ask him via e-mail (past EuroBike) and face a reply.

    The email came from Kalle / Karlheinz...i should however clarify my previous statement as Karl/Kalle said that the ION 16 can't work w/ a pinion due to swingarm clearance...he didn't not say that this applies to the other IONs..
  • 08-29-2012
    Whafe
    Thanks for sharing some ripping great pictures from Eurobike.... Very nice to see...

    On the recovery now, again, don't get Pnuemonia, far from good.... Am on the speedy heal for a Wednesday 5th departure from NZ for Whistler... Yeah ha.... Feeling a million times better than this time last week... Thanks for the get well massages...

    I cant stop steering at the ION 16!
  • 08-30-2012
    the_pilot
    Freudian slip Whafe? "steering"

    In my mind now is would it ride any different to an AM/AC.

    Thinking 29er. 150mm as on other thread but with the 'new' goodies e.g. easy geometry change, revised bearings, revised dropouts, brake mount/headtube.
  • 08-30-2012
    Warp
    Those Ion 16 are just way too sexy.

    Get well, Whafe!!
    Rock on 5-Sept!
  • 08-30-2012
    the_pilot
    Has anyone ridden an Ion compared to an AM or AC, more an AM I guess.

    I am very tempted to ask Nicolai to build me a 150mm 29er Ion based on the 16/18 as it has a number of features Nicolai wouldnt do for me earlier this year. However they have at least listened and begun to make them available.

    So I have a great 29er AC/AM hybrid, I love it. None of the features is a compelling reason to change. So I am interested as to whether there is any discernable ride quality/character differences.
  • 08-30-2012
    Warp
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    So I am interested as to whether there is any discernable ride quality/character differences.

    No experience, but here are some comments on the Ion 14 from Antonio Osuna (the guy behind the Jeronimo Cycles designs).

    Linkage Design: Nicolai ION 14 2011

    Also discussed here...

    http://forums.mtbr.com/nicolai/ion-1...ts-710267.html

    Basically, what he says is that is very similar to the Helius line and has good characteristics. The main difference being the leverage ratio being linear on the Ion against the linear-progressive of the Helius.

    The Ion 14 (according tho those numbers) should pedal a little firmer than the Helius and be a little less sensitive in the early travel... which is desirable on a 4X bike like the Ion 14.

    The Ion 16 may be an entirely different animal, though. It's brand new, so hardly anybody has ridden it.
  • 08-30-2012
    Wilhelm6
    Finally the tech sheet:

  • 09-10-2012
    Wilhelm6
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by irban_bike View Post
    The email came from Kalle / Karlheinz...i should however clarify my previous statement as Karl/Kalle said that the ION 16 can't work w/ a pinion due to swingarm clearance...he didn't not say that this applies to the other IONs..

    Today Vincent STOYHE of NICOLAI communicated that the "Ion 16" mantadory will be available with the PINION P1.18 gearbox from around Easter 2013. That´s good news.