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  1. #76
    yet another stupid german
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    last talk with Vincent few days ago he said it was coming exactly as presented at eurobike so chances for more travel, gussets etc. are pretty much non-existent....

  2. #77
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    Not even the fancy CNC-ed ION gusset. bummer. well, 170 is enough for me. Although it's strange that the headtube gussets are omitted.

  3. #78
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    Is the Ion 16 really going to be 200g lighter than the AM? That would mean the mounting hardware and axle together would have to weigh 300g which seems pretty unlikely.

    If you ordered an AM now it would ship with a 44/56 tapered head tube, which is what I have on my custom one. Interestingly the geometry I specced on my custom frame is identical to that of a medium Ion 16 (the BB is half way between the two settings at +10mm) and it rides and handles better than my stock large.

  4. #79
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    I would say the omission of the gussets & associated welding alone will be a chunk of weight.
    Geetee, you got the 44/56, I'm jealous I badgered them for 6 months for that! I'm still kinda annoyed they incorporated all my requests into the new AC29 only 3 months after they delivered mine (albeit 3 months late!) well except the too short TT, and the shorter travel, and the shorter stroke shock....well almost ;-)
    I'd like to ride one. To see how the suspension felt. I didn't like their statement about changing the pivot points to stiffen the back up under pedalling, be interesting to are if that's a noticeable difference in compliance on technical climbs..
    Aka chainline...

  5. #80
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    I would say the omission of the gussets & associated welding alone will be a chunk of weight.
    Sure but the quoted weight at this point is 3.21kg with axle and mounting hardware so if it's going to be 200g lighter than the AM, that means the axle and mounting hardware have to weigh 310g which I think seems a bit unrealistic. An axle weighs 90g IIRC so that would make the mounting hardware over 200g and I am not even sure that the AM's quoted weight of 3.1kg doesn't include the mounting hardware. I weighed my painted large at 3.18kg with hardware.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    Sure but the quoted weight at this point is 3.21kg with axle and mounting hardware so if it's going to be 200g lighter than the AM, that means the axle and mounting hardware have to weigh 310g which I think seems a bit unrealistic. An axle weighs 90g IIRC so that would make the mounting hardware over 200g and I am not even sure that the AM's quoted weight of 3.1kg doesn't include the mounting hardware. I weighed my painted large at 3.18kg with hardware.

    Maybe your weight has been a little too optimistic?

    This is an official statement from Vincent in the german IBC forum:

    p.s. ION 16 Größe L raw (Prototyp) mit RS Monarch Plus 3553g (über 200g leichter als Helius AM L mit gleichem Dämpfer)

    Translated:

    p.s. ION 16 size L raw (Prototyp) with RS Monarch Plus 3553g (more than 200g lighter than Helius AM L with same shock)

  7. #82
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    Exchanged some mails with Nicolai today, they say the 16 climbs as well as the AM but acceletates better, and is lighter.

    I might just be ordering one.

  8. #83
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    Hi guys , any new of the head tube ?
    I´m considering tu buy the ION16 but I think that a 180 fork is necessary for that frame , I have a Jekyll 11 carbon that I´ve broken the rear few days ago with a 34 talas and I think that the ION 16 it can be "the ideal frame" for a hard enduro if can mount a 180 talas for example

  9. #84
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    Xixo - the frame's not even been released yet. No one outside of Nicolai's close circle has ridden one so I'm not sure how you conclude it needs a 180mm fork. Besides, I can't recall seeing anyone win an Enduro event on a 180mm fork. It's just too heavy when a 160mm fork does the job just as well.

    If you want to fit a 180mm fork then you need/want the Ion 18 and you're not going to be competing in Enduro events. If the Ion 16 is indeed going to be lighter than the AM, then there is no way they could achieve that design spec and still warranty it for 170/180mm forks. I think that's the point of the Ion 16; it's lighter than the AM (purportedly) for competitive Enduro use, which means you only need a 160mm fork.

  10. #85
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    but the ion 16 is only 200gr lighter than AM , the good of the ion 16 is the geo and angles for climb and the 65-66 degrees for descend, for that reason I think that a 180 talas for enduro routes is the key for this frame , Mark Weir fits a 180 sometimes and Clementz a 170 likryk

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by xixo one View Post
    but the ion 16 is only 200gr lighter than AM , the good of the ion 16 is the geo and angles for climb and the 65-66 degrees for descend, for that reason I think that a 180 talas for enduro routes is the key for this frame...
    With a Nicolai you can have any geo and any angles you want... for a more than reasonable fee.

    You can also have Nicolai to build the Ion 16 with gussets or a heavier tubing in order to run a longer fork if you ask for it. Again, for a surcharge.

    You have no limits with what Nicolai can do as long as you are willing to pay for it.

    200grs is a good chunk of metal in a frame. Remember you're using the same aluminum alloy, it's a lot of wall thickness/material removed from somewhere.

    I'm kind of in the middle on this topic... agreed that 20mm travel from spec should not be an issue on ANY frame. However, from 160mm to 180mm you have a LOT of difference in the intended use.

    180mm is FR territory. Paint it with any colour you want. A 180mm fork is capable of stupid stuff. A 160mm fork is a glorified trail fork (Lyrik, Nixon, etc.).

    The only situation where I see fit a 180mm fork for enduro is to tackle stupid steep downhill stuff (think Morzine) and it will likely hurt the handling everywhere else unless you run some sort of travel adjustment. That or compensate with running a little firmer fork (you'll be receiving most hits on the front end anyways) to keep ride height a little high.
    Check my Site

  12. #87
    yet another stupid german
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    I'm with y'all on that one. can't see the Ion16 running a 180 fork because the riding that would warrant 180mm up front is just not what the frame has been designed for. as warp points out you can have your Ion16 with beefed-up downtube and/or gussets but that would be defeating the purpose, you might as well order the Ion18.

    on another note the Ion16 testing prototypes that N has been bashing for the past couple of months have been equipped with Suntour Durolux (N has a Deal with Suntour) which have an A2C of 565mm. the geo specs show max. A2C as 545mm so they have been testing with forklength in the 180mm ballpark, if this was done by design as "stress testing" is anybodys guess...

    german forum discussions have some voices saying they will be running a 170 Lyrik set up with a lot of sag (myself included^^)

    I figure anyone interested in the Ion16 just has to do a realistic evaluation of their intended riding with the bike, their riding style and obviously rider weight. its definitely not going to be a lightweight mountain goat that you can beat the s**t out of on the descents...

  13. #88
    yet another stupid german
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    Tech sheet has been updated, Fork A2C is now at 555mm -> 170mm

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...51&output=html

  14. #89
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    get in gear

  15. #90
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    2013 Prospect is online NICOLAI numeric magazine 2013 double sorry
    get in gear

  16. #91
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    Soon mine will be here :-)
    I can't wait !!!
    Edit : I didn't see I was in the Ion 16 post, mine will have a little bit more travel
    But this ion 16 is sexy !!!
    Last edited by samwell; 12-14-2012 at 01:30 PM.
    Never enough singletracks !

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by samwell View Post
    Soon mine will be here :-)
    I can't wait !!!
    great, post some photos when you can.

  18. #93
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    I´ve ordered mine few days ago too !

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.juggles View Post
    my perfect "one" bike is my helius am with 170mm lyrik...i hope they wont drop the helius am from the range when the ion 16 surfaces ... the ion looks crap imo.
    My 170mm Lyrik (Coil, DH damper) for Helius AM should be here on Tuesday. I hope you are right.

    It would not be my "one" bike though..

    I am not wishing that I have waited for ION.

  20. #95
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    what diameter of seatclamp it needs , anyone knows?

  21. #96
    yet another stupid german
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    34,9mm

  22. #97
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  23. #98
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    Hi everyone, I have a doubt with the front derailleur , this:

    Shimano XTR M985 10 Speed Double Front Derailleur - E2 Type

    Is compatible with the ion 16 ?

    I would like to mount a full xtr group and I have that derailleur on my actual bike

  24. #99
    yet another stupid german
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    don't think so... you need high direct mount


  25. #100
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    Thanks , again

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