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  1. #151
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    Looking at the Ion16 leverage ratio it seems it has a falling rate (progressive) all the way through its travel. From what little i understand, this means that the standard DB air will suffer with compression damping issue and riders may not be able to use full travel, therefore a larger air volume remedies this.

    If you are correct and the Rune has regressive nature towards the end of its stroke then the standard can should work a treat.

    So im a bit confused now, if cane creek have advised jj that a standard can is the one, then there is a bit of conflict going on as Nicolai have advised not to go down this route, I'm sticking with the advise of these guys as they design the frame and tested it, and I'm advised that Nicolai staff will be installing the DB air XV as its the best setup available.

    They actually offer the DB Air at a reasonable price too so cant complain.

  2. #152
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    Ion 16 Breaks Cover

    Quote Originally Posted by sloanranger View Post
    Looking at the Ion16 leverage ratio it seems it has a falling rate (progressive) all the way through its travel. From what little i understand, this means that the standard DB air will suffer with compression damping issue and riders may not be able to use full travel, therefore a larger air volume remedies this.

    If you are correct and the Rune has regressive nature towards the end of its stroke then the standard can should work a treat.

    So im a bit confused now, if cane creek have advised jj that a standard can is the one, then there is a bit of conflict going on as Nicolai have advised not to go down this route, I'm sticking with the advise of these guys as they design the frame and tested it, and I'm advised that Nicolai staff will be installing the DB air XV as its the best setup available.

    They actually offer the DB Air at a reasonable price too so cant complain.
    High volume can is $40 and easy to swap. I will try both on Helius once it comes out.

    Upgraded inner can to the current high flow. It does make a difference.

    What still bugs me a lot - can touches the swing link on Helius (just barely), but that means in 171mm mode I can not fit water bottle below it. I am about to take a file to the link and notch it for clearance. Grr.

  3. #153
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    Axe,
    Great comment/point....just what I was thinking too. I'm going to put the HV can on my 5Spot and test it out...so shouldn't be a big deal with the ION16.

    Best to all and thanks for the comments.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  4. #154
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    Guys

    Here is a response from Nicolai regarding DB Air

    "We tested both versions of the DB Air, the standard one and the XV with our team riders, workmates and Gino Schliffske from Flatout Suspension.
    The standard DB air was just too progressive from the mid stroke and therefore it didnt feel as vivid as the XV.
    With the XV you have a really good range to adjust the progression with the air can spacers, the suspension feels supple but without diving in the sag"

    Hope this helps.

  5. #155
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    sloanranger,

    Thanks, helps a TON!

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  6. #156
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    Finally in Large...




    3464g with Reset Flatstack A4 und Hollowlite BB (ca.180g together), shock mounting screws and axle

    Netto 3284g

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    Finally in Large...
    Very cool...are those the standard decals? And everything else in Raw?

    Is the headset included as standard?

  8. #158
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    Sweet!

    Raschaa,

    Looks great! Man, you have me second guessing my choice of black ano with extra love glossy black stickers!

    Thanks for sharing the pictures, looking forward to following your build up.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  9. #159
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    Decals can be had in pretty much any color, whatever floats your boat... mine are not the ones I ordered, got messed up somewhere along the way, but thats no biggy Ill just have them send me new ones.

    The headset and BB are not included, I ordered those along with the frame and they mounted them for me. Reset-Racing make top notch stuff that suits a bike like Nicolai very well. They're close to Nicolai and Kalle and Herr Koehn (reset-racing) are old buddies. Can't recommend them enough.

    Build is almost completed, finishing touches and pics tomorrow. But to raise the suspense, I had it on the scales and hung the not yet mounted rear brake and front mech on the pedal......






    13.1kg

    and JJ, black ano + glossy decals is timeless, don't worry about it

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    and JJ, black ano + glossy decals is timeless, don't worry about it
    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  11. #161
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    Some detail pics?


  12. #162
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    looks really good raschaa... looking forward to seeing the complete pics.

  13. #163
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    Ok, not 100% finished and not a very good pic, but here she is^^





    weight w/o front mech 12,90kg

  14. #164
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    what size is it raschaa. I think thats about the same weight as an AM taking ino account the axle is in?
    Aka chainline...

  15. #165
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    The frame is L and weighs 3264g with axle and shock hardware

  16. #166
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    Ooh, I read that 2 as a 4. Encouraged now for the Ion29. My old med AM 26" was 3350 without anything. Painted tough I suppose.

    My L AC/AM 29 hybrid is 3330 without anything black ano.

    Ion29 will be raw too.

    Will you put a dropper post on it?
    Aka chainline...

  17. #167
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    occasionally yes, but 80% of the time I don't need one...

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalkhoffpink View Post
    .... and the suspension is more
    linear than progeressive. ...
    Yes, why design a linear rate when yer average air shock is progressive at the last 1/2 - 1/3 of the travel. Wouldn`t you rather want a progressive rate matched to the progressiveness of the shock to give a linear resultant feel?

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    occasionally yes, but 80% of the time I don't need one...
    So, have you had chance to break her in yet, how does it respond and whats the stiffness like on the rear....

    Finger crossed mine should be arriving soon, already running a week late, but cant all good things come to those who wait..

  20. #170
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    No, weather has been atrocious past few days (loads of wet snow ), just a quick run up and down the street... shock feels like it suits the linkage ratio really well, very little pedaling influence, rear feels stiff enough under heavy pedaling (but I'm no sprinter^^)

    hoping the snow melts next few days...

    all good things DO come to those who can wait!

    Oh, and be wary of how short you cut the steerer tube. the short tapered tube + zerostack puts the bars so low that my shifters hit the top tube massively...

  21. #171
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    Hi raschaa,

    do you have mounted a 160 rear disc ?
    could you show any pic from behind of rear brake ?
    I want to mount rear a hope m4 calippers with a 160 disc and I think that is not necessary any caliper adapter but there is not space for a nut to install the screw , I need some help..

  22. #172
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    sorry, won't work. the Ion 16 has a postmount 180 welded on to the chainstay...

    for lots of (detail) pics see my album at german mtb-news.de

    for bigger size scroll down on right side...

    Micro (8080, 4.2 KiB)
    Thumbnail (150113, 10.5 KiB)
    Mittel (550413, 104.1 KiB)
    Gro (1024768, 289.6 KiB)
    Original (20001500, 359.3 KiB)

  23. #173
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    I have seen your pics, my question is , how have you attached the caliper at the place becouse the orifices does not have a thread , is it necessary any special screw ?

    here you got my frame

    Ion 16 Breaks Cover-pinza2.jpg

  24. #174
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    fixed, missing the bag with the cilinders

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by xixo one View Post
    fixed, missing the bag with the cilinders
    Good catch! Would have sucked if you mistakenly threw them away. The replaceable thread inserts are not common enough to be found at the local bike shop.
    When you get a chance post some pictures of your build. I would be interested to see.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  26. #176
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    next week it will be finished , Ill show pics

  27. #177
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    they forgot to send me the pm inserts, but I had some from an Ikea cupboard, they work too LOL

    sorry I didn't mention the threaded inserts, I kinda figured that was self-explanatory...

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    they forgot to send me the pm inserts, but I had some from an Ikea cupboard, they work too LOL

    sorry I didn't mention the threaded inserts, I kinda figured that was self-explanatory...
    Hmmm, good to know. I have another bike brand (Turner) that use the PM inserts. Guess I'll play it safe and order a set from them just in case. Can always save them for the 5Spot if I get them with the ION16.

    xixo one, your frame looks great!! Great choice of the raw and blue, very sharp!!
    Look forward to seeing it built and both of your impressions on rear shock choices.

    Cheers
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  29. #179
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    on another note...

    the clamp for the front derailleur seriously disappointed me, uuuuuugly and not worthy of being mounted on a N frame... took half an hour to transform it into "acceptable".



    I can recommend routing the rear brake hose through the horst link:



    I couldnt' get a clean routing because the PM mount is so wide in comparison to an adapter that the fitting wouldn't clear the mount without having to go up-and-over...

    got a 2 hour ride in yesterday during a sunny patch at round about freezing... nothing spectacular because I'm still having problems with my meniscus after a bouldering incident back in december

    although I've done no training the past 4 months I was astonished how well Ion + I mastered the climbs, so I'll give that to the bike... rear felt plenty stiff when mashing the pedals and bob was almost non-existent. It does feel pretty slack with the "low" setting and 170 Lyrik, will flip it to "high" next round for comparison. On a ca. 500m stretch with lots of roots, some of them arm-thick, the rear felt nice, not cushy soft, just well damped and controlled, taking enough of the hits to let me stay seated (post fully extended) and pedaling, BB height was not an issue...

    hope to get in some serious trail riding with airtime soon
    Last edited by raschaa; 03-24-2013 at 01:03 AM.

  30. #180
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    ... and if we just ... Ion 16 slack.................

    Ion 16 Breaks Cover-image.jpgHere's mine at last , all built up but no chance of riding as everywhere is covered in snow.

    The low stack height is very alien to me at the moment, I'm so used to a much higher bar height, but we will see how things are when I can get out for a ride.

    It looks like I'm the only one who hasn't gone for the raw effect.

    Ion 16 Breaks Cover-ion-16-right.jpgIon 16 Breaks Cover-ion-16-left.jpg

    I measured the fork angle with my iphone (which is accurate enough) and very slack ........ at 63.5 ( un weighted) in 'low' setting, this is with a 170 lyric and Hans Damf up front and Conti RQ 2.2 at the rear.

    Below is my spec:


    • Rider height, weight, ride style: 5ft 11inch, 90kg, All Mountain, XC, DH, Freeride.
    • Frame, Size & Colour:, Gloss White & Anodised Black, Zero Stack Tapered Headtube, 12mm Rear Axle
    • Fork: RS Lyric 170 DH Solo Air
    • Shock: Cane Creek DB Air, 216mm i2i, 63mm stroke
    • Brakes: Formula R0 F&R, 203mm front, 185mm rear
    • Cranks: Sram X9 with MRP 28T Bling Ring
    • Shifters: Shimano XT
    • Rear Deraileur: Shimano Zee (short cage)
    • Pedals: DMR Vault
    • Stem: Renthal Duo
    • Handlebar: Easton Haven Carbon
    • Seatpost: RS Stealth Reverb
    • Seatclamp: Hope QR
    • Saddle: FiZik Gobi
    • Bottom Bracket: Hope Stainless
    • Cassette: Shimano 36-11XT
    • Chain: KMC Gold
    • Headset: Hope
    • Grips: Renthal Super Soft Lock On
    • Front Tyre: Continental 2.2 Rubber Queen or Schwable 2.35 Hans Dampf (running tubeless)
    • Front Rim/Spokes: Mavic Crossmax SX
    • Rear Tyre: Continental 2.2 Rubber Queen Queen or Schwable 2.35 Hans Dampf (running tubeless)
    • Rear Rim/Spokes: Mavic Crossmax SX
    • Misc: MRP Micro G2 chain device, helicopter taped in specific zones


    Bathroom scales weight = 13kg (which i think must be incorrect)
    Last edited by sloanranger; 03-26-2013 at 03:21 AM. Reason: Update

  31. #181
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    sloanranger,

    Build looks great, love the seatstays!

    Could you explain on how to set "high and low"? I.E. what is the position of the bolt/nut for high and low?

    Cheers,
    Last edited by jjkitt; 03-27-2013 at 11:33 AM.
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  32. #182
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    Ion 16 Breaks Cover-ion-16-instruction.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by jjkitt View Post
    sloanranger,

    Build looks great, love the seatstays!

    Could you explain on how to set "high and low"? I.E. what is the position of the bolt/nut for high and low?

    Cheers,

    Nicolai Instructions enclosed:

  33. #183
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    Sloanranger,

    Thanks for posting. Sent you a PM.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  34. #184
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    here you got , now 13950gr , but finally it will be 13900gr in a few days , with

    Marzocchi 55 rc3 evo v2 ti
    Monarch rt3
    Hope m4 brakes
    Carbon handlebar
    xtr transmission
    sixc crankset
    ztr flow+ti spokes+ dt240s wheels
    Minion front
    Ignitor rear
    Reverb stealth
    Selle Italia slr xc flow
    size M

  35. #185
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    That looks mint, sloanranger - it might have made my colour decision for me - I have Crossmax SX and Devilles on my Spicy to transfer over, white front triangle and black rear end was what I had in mind.

    Is that decal setup custom, or do they include extra decals in the box?

  36. #186
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    well, finally got in 4 hrs of serious trail bangin'... still have the smile on my face

    performance in the rear was awesome, felt bottomless (x-fusion vector hlr air), very controlled midstroke when hammering berms and pumping the roots and rocks, no noticable flex and had 2-3 mm shock stroke in reserve... got courageous and started hitting the 2 sections of trail that would justify using a dh bike at the same speed I would on my Ion20... WOW, that worked really well, of course not as stable and quite a bit heavier on the "bodywork" end of matters, but very composed and fast. it's matching my lyrik rc2dh very nicely and when I get more time on the new shock to find my setup, I'l probably have to do some tweaking of the fork^^

  37. #187
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    Hi guys, a video of last Monday with my new Ion 16



    720p is available on choice

  38. #188
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    Are there any more reviews on how the bike rides? I try to read the German forums but google translate isn't too helpful and I can only make out problems with fitting shimano front mechs.

    Not many ride reports about and I'm having second thoughts and thinking of cancelling my order as all I read is problems. :S

  39. #189
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    which problems? my shimano slx mech fits perfect... german mtb-news forum is lacking ride reports as well, nobody (besides myself) has posted anything beyond "wow", "excellent" etc etc.

    I'm not a heavy pedaler and doing the uphill is just a means for hitting the down in my case. I have no real comparison for uphill performance, but I met up with one guy from the german forum to let him test ride mine. he had a trek slash and ordered an ion16 right after riding mine, he was blazing fast on the up (I felt like I was going backwards ) and did a good job going down and said it was loads better than his slash up and down.

    I recently did an all day shuttle assisted 8 runs on one of my favorite trails and have to say the dh performance is immaculate. it has a totally solid and reassuring feel that makes you want to go faster and faster, I was really blown away by the speed at which I could hit really gnarly sections and yet it still is flickable and nimble in the techy stuff.

    german "world of mtb" magazine tested 14 enduro bikes in their latest issue and the ion 16 was deemed the ""testcrews favorite". their only gripe was that they felt it could have a slightly steeper seat angle. if you are desperate I could translate a synopsis for you but you'd have to give me a few days because I've got other things to do (like riding my ion16^^)...

    I figure that the Ion16 is pretty much a enduro racers dream, maybe not the best on the climb but whoa, going down it's gonna be hard to beat.

    yet another of my 2 cents

  40. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    which problems? my shimano slx mech fits perfect...
    On my Helius AM - model before the chainstay direct mount - I had to dremel out a corner of SLX short cage front derailleur to fit it properly. Long cage would not fit. I think they design it around SRAM. Not a big deal - most long travel bikes with front derailleur have some fitment issues. We do not hear about them a lot as most bikes are sold as completes, with an appropriate part already installed.

  41. #191
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    Its true , on my ion 16 the xtr front derailleaur does not work fine , I use a 24/36 sixc crankset with a xtr derailleur and I cant adjust correct the chain with the 24 chainring , I tried differen combinations of spacers on the cranks and at this moment with the 24t the chain touch the derailleaur , Im waiting for a response from Nicolai about it and I hope adjust the chain as soon as possible, on vid of last Monday with my ion.


  42. #192
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    yes, they do design around sram mech. that was recently confirmed by Vinc of N in mtb-news.de forum... I really don't see the problem either and others I know nothing of.

  43. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalla View Post
    Are there any more reviews on how the bike rides? I try to read the German forums but google translate isn't too helpful and I can only make out problems with fitting shimano front mechs.

    Not many ride reports about and I'm having second thoughts and thinking of cancelling my order as all I read is problems. :S
    I have managed to ride mine about a dozen times and i have no negatives to report, i run a 1 x 10 setup so dont have any issues with drivetrain.

    So far i would say it climbs exceptionaly well for me as my previous bike was a Helius AFR which has a very slack seat angle which puts your weight over the back. The downhill qualities are superb, again campairing to my AFR i would say it is better, this must be due to the head angle of 63.5 in low setting with a lyric 170.

    My only issue at the moment is the crap monarch rear shock which is a temp solution whilst i wait for my Canecreek DB Air. But even with this lame shock it climbs and decends exceptionaly well.

  44. #194
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    Thanks for the replies guys, certainly put my mind at ease. I guess I was getting attracted to all these new bikes being released and the 650b craze and wondering if i made the right decision.

    But I still think the Ion 16 is what I'm after, something that has amazing downhill performance, but can still be ridden uphill, and looking at your reports it certainly seems to be the case.

    Cheers

  45. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalla View Post
    .... something that has amazing downhill performance, but can still be ridden uphill ....
    OH Yes! you will be impressed....

  46. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalla View Post
    Thanks for the replies guys, certainly put my mind at ease. I guess I was getting attracted to all these new bikes being released and the 650b craze and wondering if i made the right decision.

    But I still think the Ion 16 is what I'm after, something that has amazing downhill performance, but can still be ridden uphill, and looking at your reports it certainly seems to be the case.

    Cheers
    people of Nicolai said that this year will be an Ion16 650b

  47. #197
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    Was told my ION16 will start production this Monday, with a early June delivery. Getting pretty stoked!!

    How is everyone liking their built ION16s? Any lessons learned, build/kit items your really glad put on, things you wouldn't recommend, etc...?

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  48. #198
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    Sorry, made double post.
    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  49. #199
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    Had to cancel mine due to wife getting unexpectedly pregnant
    Last edited by Nalla; 04-10-2014 at 02:10 AM.

  50. #200
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    If it makes you guys feel any better I ordered my Helius AC Pinion in December, was told it would be here in February. Still waiting. I'm looking forward to it though.

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