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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm6 View Post
    Today Vincent STOYHE of NICOLAI communicated that the "Ion 16" mantadory will be available with the PINION P1.18 gearbox from around Easter 2013. That´s good news.
    Good to know, thanks Wilhelm...regardless - I just placed an order for a Helius AM...I like the looks of the Helius AM over the ION

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by irban_bike View Post
    Good to know, thanks Wilhelm...regardless - I just placed an order for a Helius AM...I like the looks of the Helius AM over the ION
    Gratz! Would be nice if your Helius AM could sport some of the innovations of the Ion 16 like ZS, PM, new sealed bearing design, new 142mm drop-outs.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm6 View Post
    Gratz! Would be nice if your Helius AM could sport some of the innovations of the Ion 16 like ZS, PM, new sealed bearing design, new 142mm drop-outs.
    I would also choose the AM over the ION 16 just because of the variable rear suspension and overall looks. Do not need ZS, I use some spacers anyway and 135x12 suits me fine. The only thing would be the new bearing design, but the actual one of the AM is not the worst at all….

    Greez, Andy

  4. #54
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Dunno. Just made a research of the German forum MtB-News.de, only one hit, no suitable informations. If you are interested, you can read a current test in the magazine "World of Mountainbiking", issue 7, 2012, pp. 70-80 online for free (in German, translate it online yourself) or buy a download immediately for € 2,99 (see heading line of the linked website).

  6. #56
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    Man, I'm sorely tempted. When are these available?

  7. #57
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    Production plan for the Ion16 is January so will be sending mid to end of February... Vincent said they were going to build as many as they get orders. One in Raw, size L is for me!

    The aforementioned wheels have one serious drawback. Rim inside width is very small at 17mm and will probably only handle a max tire width of 2.2. I have a pair of those "cheap chinese carbon rims" coming my way that I am going to lace to my SunRingle Charger Pros with 24 spokes. I hope those do the job on my Ion 16 then...

  8. #58
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    Latest tech sheet here

  9. #59
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    The Price is 2299 Euro, same as ION20

  10. #60
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    Sure? I had a short chat with Vinc a few days ago, he said 2199 Euro...

  11. #61
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    got an e-mail from him yesterday

  12. #62
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    400 Euros+ from an Helius AM???...so we have to pay the R&D for it...

  13. #63
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    ~3469 Euros for anodized frame with ccdbair /if shock price is the same as ion20/
    I guess pinion version will be ~5000 Euros
    That's the most expensive 160mm frame on the planet...

  14. #64
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    Has anybody found out if the ION 16 will allow 170 mm or even 180 mm forks? I want to send them another email, but they didn't answer my first mail regarding some questions about ION 18.

    Do they even answer the info[at]nicolai . net mail?

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by drakche View Post
    Has anybody found out if the ION 16 will allow 170 mm or even 180 mm forks? I want to send them another email, but they didn't answer my first mail regarding some questions about ION 18.

    Do they even answer the info[at]nicolai . net mail?
    Sometimes it can take a while to answer....

    As far as I know the standard ION 16 will allow 160mm forks, but you can order it with a stronger down tube for 170mm. 180mm is not allowed yet….

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalkhoffpink View Post
    Sometimes it can take a while to answer....

    As far as I know the standard ION 16 will allow 160mm forks, but you can order it with a stronger down tube for 170mm. 180mm is not allowed yet….
    thanks man.
    I asked for 180 since the length of x-fusion vengeance @ 170 is 565 mm, same as 180 mm fork. I hope the will allow it. I think that 160/180 mm conf would be ideal allrounder.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by drakche View Post
    thanks man.
    I asked for 180 since the length of x-fusion vengeance @ 170 is 565 mm, same as 180 mm fork. I hope the will allow it. I think that 160/180 mm conf would be ideal allrounder.
    I think that the idea is not to restrict the fork because of the lenght, but for the things you would do with 180mm in front. IMHO the bike is not made for stuff you normally use an ION 18 for. The lack of an 180mm option has been discussed in the german forum too and the most were disappointed about that.

  18. #68
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    so basically the restriction isn't pn travel but on the use of the bike. Because I'd use the bike for enduro/freeride (not even half of rampage stuff.).

  19. #69
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    to chime in with my fellow countryman, N is most likely trying to make sure the ion16 is not used beyond its designated spectrum. FR is a term that conjures up visions of hucking and the likes which the frame has not been designed for. Its intended use is enduro racing where alot of guys are riding 140-150mm bikes. as is typical for any Nicolai it will probably withstand quite a bit of abuse, but alas there are a lot of folks out there that will break pretty much anything...

    as mentioned above this has been the center of quite a bit of debate in geman mtb-news forum. bottom line is that most buyers will be running it with a 170mm fork seeing that that is more or less standard for that bike category. it will probably do just fine as long as you don't start "heavy hitting" with it.

    if in doubt the Ion18 is probably the bike for you and all owners I have spoken with rave about its uphill capabilities, albeit it is not a xc bike^^

    regarding your mail not getting answered; their second salesperson Moritz is off work due to a massive crash at Megavalanche and Vincent is drowning in mails (up to 400 daily...).

  20. #70
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    I've seen the debate, but alas I don't know German. I've thought about the ION 18, but I think that it is to heavy for Enduro racing. I thought mainly because I'd like to run it with 170 X-Fusion (which is the same length as an 180 mm fork) or Marz 55 just to have a bit of reserve if the going get tough. No big hucking and rampage style riding. The most extreme will be something like Whistler or some shore-like technical riding. But it will mainly be a enduro ride and epic all-mountain travelling, with an occasional light FR. But seeing from the videos The Helius AM was more than capable for that stuff, So I'm hoping that the ION 16 will be more than up to it. I like it more because of the awesome HA.

  21. #71
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    Yo, right there with you M8! the geo is what makes it so attractive^^

    I've ordered mine and will be running it with a lyrik@175mm. I'll try to stay away from the DH-tracks or better yet use my Ion20 for those. I'm pretty good at hitting my lines and staying clean so I'm not worried about stability....

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by drakche View Post
    I've seen the debate, but alas I don't know German. I've thought about the ION 18, but I think that it is to heavy for Enduro racing. I thought mainly because I'd like to run it with 170 X-Fusion (which is the same length as an 180 mm fork) or Marz 55 just to have a bit of reserve if the going get tough. No big hucking and rampage style riding. The most extreme will be something like Whistler or some shore-like technical riding. But it will mainly be a enduro ride and epic all-mountain travelling, with an occasional light FR. But seeing from the videos The Helius AM was more than capable for that stuff, So I'm hoping that the ION 16 will be more than up to it. I like it more because of the awesome HA.
    If you expect the ION 16 to be more stable than the AM than you are wrong.
    One hint is the frame weight of the ION 16 which is 200g less than the AM.
    Next is you can order the AM with the AFR downtube which is than good for
    180mm forks. The geo of course is not new-school and the suspension is more
    linear than progeressive. The ION 16 still has no gussets in front, but might get them
    when finally released. For Enduro-races the ION 16 should be the better bike. For a
    Do-It-All-Bike I personally would prefer the AM, and I am close to pull the trigger on it.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalkhoffpink View Post
    If you expect the ION 16 to be more stable than the AM than you are wrong.
    One hint is the frame weight of the ION 16 which is 200g less than the AM.
    Next is you can order the AM with the AFR downtube which is than good for
    180mm forks. The geo of course is not new-school and the suspension is more
    linear than progeressive. The ION 16 still has no gussets in front, but might get them
    when finally released. For Enduro-races the ION 16 should be the better bike. For a
    Do-It-All-Bike I personally would prefer the AM, and I am close to pull the trigger on it.
    Maybe there will be an option for ION 16 with ION 18 downtube. Although it's lighter for 200g, I think it wont represent a problem, since N frames are beefier than the rest of it's class. I think it will get the gussets up front. And the seat tube gusset differs from the rest of the ION lineup. So pretty much, until February, we have no idea how will it look. It's really a tough call between the 18 and the 16, but I think that the travel in the 18 is a bit overkill, in the afr you could take the travel down to 160. I think I'm gonna wait a bit before pulling the trigger, because I really like the 16, and would like to see the difference between the ION 16 And Helius AM in some reviews. There are pros and there are cons, always.

  24. #74
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    Reading Nicolai's own blurb, they talk about keeping the Helius AM in the lineup until customers accept the Ion 16 as a replacement.

    I'd prefer the updates on the Ion (12x142 & tapered HT) to the AM, and of course the 200g saving - just not sure if it'll pedal as well - it's billed as "mini DH" as opposed to AM.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by drakche View Post
    Maybe there will be an option for ION 16 with ION 18 downtube. Although it's lighter for 200g, I think it wont represent a problem, since N frames are beefier than the rest of it's class. I think it will get the gussets up front. And the seat tube gusset differs from the rest of the ION lineup. So pretty much, until February, we have no idea how will it look. It's really a tough call between the 18 and the 16, but I think that the travel in the 18 is a bit overkill, in the afr you could take the travel down to 160. I think I'm gonna wait a bit before pulling the trigger, because I really like the 16, and would like to see the difference between the ION 16 And Helius AM in some reviews. There are pros and there are cons, always.

    A shootout between those two would be very interesting, though they are made for different tasks. For now there will be the stronger downtube for 170mm forks, like said before. Maybe you are lucky and there will be a second option for 180mm.

  26. #76
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    last talk with Vincent few days ago he said it was coming exactly as presented at eurobike so chances for more travel, gussets etc. are pretty much non-existent....

  27. #77
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    Not even the fancy CNC-ed ION gusset. bummer. well, 170 is enough for me. Although it's strange that the headtube gussets are omitted.

  28. #78
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    Is the Ion 16 really going to be 200g lighter than the AM? That would mean the mounting hardware and axle together would have to weigh 300g which seems pretty unlikely.

    If you ordered an AM now it would ship with a 44/56 tapered head tube, which is what I have on my custom one. Interestingly the geometry I specced on my custom frame is identical to that of a medium Ion 16 (the BB is half way between the two settings at +10mm) and it rides and handles better than my stock large.

  29. #79
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    I would say the omission of the gussets & associated welding alone will be a chunk of weight.
    Geetee, you got the 44/56, I'm jealous I badgered them for 6 months for that! I'm still kinda annoyed they incorporated all my requests into the new AC29 only 3 months after they delivered mine (albeit 3 months late!) well except the too short TT, and the shorter travel, and the shorter stroke shock....well almost ;-)
    I'd like to ride one. To see how the suspension felt. I didn't like their statement about changing the pivot points to stiffen the back up under pedalling, be interesting to are if that's a noticeable difference in compliance on technical climbs..
    Aka chainline...

  30. #80
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    I would say the omission of the gussets & associated welding alone will be a chunk of weight.
    Sure but the quoted weight at this point is 3.21kg with axle and mounting hardware so if it's going to be 200g lighter than the AM, that means the axle and mounting hardware have to weigh 310g which I think seems a bit unrealistic. An axle weighs 90g IIRC so that would make the mounting hardware over 200g and I am not even sure that the AM's quoted weight of 3.1kg doesn't include the mounting hardware. I weighed my painted large at 3.18kg with hardware.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    Sure but the quoted weight at this point is 3.21kg with axle and mounting hardware so if it's going to be 200g lighter than the AM, that means the axle and mounting hardware have to weigh 310g which I think seems a bit unrealistic. An axle weighs 90g IIRC so that would make the mounting hardware over 200g and I am not even sure that the AM's quoted weight of 3.1kg doesn't include the mounting hardware. I weighed my painted large at 3.18kg with hardware.

    Maybe your weight has been a little too optimistic?

    This is an official statement from Vincent in the german IBC forum:

    p.s. ION 16 Größe L raw (Prototyp) mit RS Monarch Plus 3553g (über 200g leichter als Helius AM L mit gleichem Dämpfer)

    Translated:

    p.s. ION 16 size L raw (Prototyp) with RS Monarch Plus 3553g (more than 200g lighter than Helius AM L with same shock)

  32. #82
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    Exchanged some mails with Nicolai today, they say the 16 climbs as well as the AM but acceletates better, and is lighter.

    I might just be ordering one.

  33. #83
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    Hi guys , any new of the head tube ?
    I´m considering tu buy the ION16 but I think that a 180 fork is necessary for that frame , I have a Jekyll 11 carbon that I´ve broken the rear few days ago with a 34 talas and I think that the ION 16 it can be "the ideal frame" for a hard enduro if can mount a 180 talas for example

  34. #84
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    Xixo - the frame's not even been released yet. No one outside of Nicolai's close circle has ridden one so I'm not sure how you conclude it needs a 180mm fork. Besides, I can't recall seeing anyone win an Enduro event on a 180mm fork. It's just too heavy when a 160mm fork does the job just as well.

    If you want to fit a 180mm fork then you need/want the Ion 18 and you're not going to be competing in Enduro events. If the Ion 16 is indeed going to be lighter than the AM, then there is no way they could achieve that design spec and still warranty it for 170/180mm forks. I think that's the point of the Ion 16; it's lighter than the AM (purportedly) for competitive Enduro use, which means you only need a 160mm fork.

  35. #85
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    but the ion 16 is only 200gr lighter than AM , the good of the ion 16 is the geo and angles for climb and the 65-66 degrees for descend, for that reason I think that a 180 talas for enduro routes is the key for this frame , Mark Weir fits a 180 sometimes and Clementz a 170 likryk

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by xixo one View Post
    but the ion 16 is only 200gr lighter than AM , the good of the ion 16 is the geo and angles for climb and the 65-66 degrees for descend, for that reason I think that a 180 talas for enduro routes is the key for this frame...
    With a Nicolai you can have any geo and any angles you want... for a more than reasonable fee.

    You can also have Nicolai to build the Ion 16 with gussets or a heavier tubing in order to run a longer fork if you ask for it. Again, for a surcharge.

    You have no limits with what Nicolai can do as long as you are willing to pay for it.

    200grs is a good chunk of metal in a frame. Remember you're using the same aluminum alloy, it's a lot of wall thickness/material removed from somewhere.

    I'm kind of in the middle on this topic... agreed that 20mm travel from spec should not be an issue on ANY frame. However, from 160mm to 180mm you have a LOT of difference in the intended use.

    180mm is FR territory. Paint it with any colour you want. A 180mm fork is capable of stupid stuff. A 160mm fork is a glorified trail fork (Lyrik, Nixon, etc.).

    The only situation where I see fit a 180mm fork for enduro is to tackle stupid steep downhill stuff (think Morzine) and it will likely hurt the handling everywhere else unless you run some sort of travel adjustment. That or compensate with running a little firmer fork (you'll be receiving most hits on the front end anyways) to keep ride height a little high.
    Check my Site

  37. #87
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    I'm with y'all on that one. can't see the Ion16 running a 180 fork because the riding that would warrant 180mm up front is just not what the frame has been designed for. as warp points out you can have your Ion16 with beefed-up downtube and/or gussets but that would be defeating the purpose, you might as well order the Ion18.

    on another note the Ion16 testing prototypes that N has been bashing for the past couple of months have been equipped with Suntour Durolux (N has a Deal with Suntour) which have an A2C of 565mm. the geo specs show max. A2C as 545mm so they have been testing with forklength in the 180mm ballpark, if this was done by design as "stress testing" is anybodys guess...

    german forum discussions have some voices saying they will be running a 170 Lyrik set up with a lot of sag (myself included^^)

    I figure anyone interested in the Ion16 just has to do a realistic evaluation of their intended riding with the bike, their riding style and obviously rider weight. its definitely not going to be a lightweight mountain goat that you can beat the s**t out of on the descents...

  38. #88
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    Tech sheet has been updated, Fork A2C is now at 555mm -> 170mm

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...51&output=html

  39. #89
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    get in gear

  40. #90
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    2013 Prospect is online NICOLAI numeric magazine 2013 double sorry
    get in gear

  41. #91
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    Soon mine will be here :-)
    I can't wait !!!
    Edit : I didn't see I was in the Ion 16 post, mine will have a little bit more travel
    But this ion 16 is sexy !!!
    Last edited by samwell; 12-14-2012 at 01:30 PM.
    Never enough singletracks !

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by samwell View Post
    Soon mine will be here :-)
    I can't wait !!!
    great, post some photos when you can.

  43. #93
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    I´ve ordered mine few days ago too !

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.juggles View Post
    my perfect "one" bike is my helius am with 170mm lyrik...i hope they wont drop the helius am from the range when the ion 16 surfaces ... the ion looks crap imo.
    My 170mm Lyrik (Coil, DH damper) for Helius AM should be here on Tuesday. I hope you are right.

    It would not be my "one" bike though..

    I am not wishing that I have waited for ION.

  45. #95
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    what diameter of seatclamp it needs , anyone knows?

  46. #96
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    34,9mm

  47. #97
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    Hi everyone, I have a doubt with the front derailleur , this:

    Shimano XTR M985 10 Speed Double Front Derailleur - E2 Type

    Is compatible with the ion 16 ?

    I would like to mount a full xtr group and I have that derailleur on my actual bike

  49. #99
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    don't think so... you need high direct mount


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    Thanks , again

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