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  1. #101
    yet another stupid german
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    Ion16 is now on N website

    NICOLAI Ion 16

  2. #102
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    Nice looking beast with a lower COG than older Nic frames.

    However its looks waaay less burley than my Helius FR. That weighed 3.47kg with gussets everywhere and an 1.5 headtube.
    www.essexhertsmtb.co.uk - Mountain Biking near London in the UK

  3. #103
    yet another stupid german
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    hopefully sometime mid-february I'll be doing do some "burliness" tests

  4. #104
    Living the USA dreams...
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    I hope news too
    lol

  5. #105
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    well here's some news for you folks regarding Ion16. It has just been "leaked" that 1st production run Ion16 will come with gussets at the headtube and therefore allow 170mm travel forks. most likely same style as AM... no pictures yet but one guy did some (photo)shopping:



    obviously the pressure by potential buyers got to them and Karve gets his "burliness" ^^

    I'm not 100% convinced I wnat or need the gussets, I kinda liked the clean look without.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    well here's some news for you folks regarding Ion16. It has just been "leaked" that 1st production run Ion16 will come with gussets at the headtube and therefore allow 170mm travel forks. most likely same style as AM... no pictures yet but one guy did some (photo)shopping:



    obviously the pressure by potential buyers got to them and Karve gets his "burliness" ^^

    I'm not 100% convinced I wnat or need the gussets, I kinda liked the clean look without.
    So now it is the same as Helius AM, with linkage relocated to the downtube, no reinforcement brace as on Ion18, updated frame features, and no option to relocate upper shock mount, or restrict travel for a longer ride.

    Good. No urge to upgrade my AM for longer.

  7. #107
    yet another stupid german
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    well, not quite. it has updated geo, tapered headtube, pm rear brake mount, stealth ready and foremost the linkage characteristic of the Ion series. but if you already call an AM your own, well, I understand that there is less "need to have" involved^^. Since I was planning to buy an AM when news of the 16 came it was a no-brainer for me. they still haven't got it all worked out just yet, because it seems unclear as to where derallieur cable routing is going to run (toptube vs. downtube) etc.etc.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    tapered headtube, pm rear brake mount, stealth ready
    That is what I meant under "updated frame features". All very good, but does not really affect ride.

    Well, geometry obviously does, I see they stretched it 10mm, slackened half a degree, and lowered BB 2 to 10mm - about par for 10mm less travel. And linkage ratio does not rise until sag point. Kinda following the recent trends. Meh.. it was already pretty dialed IMHO.

    I do like High/Low option instead of travel adjust. Travel adjust kinda useless for me. But I guess I can get the same effect by ordering a different front shock mount, from -3 to -5? Should do that...

  9. #109
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    The AM now comes with ZS tapered head tube and is stealth ready. My custom AM also has a +10mm BB.

    I'm not sure why they felt the AM couldn't be used to devel these new technologies in the pivot hardware, but I'm sure there is a good reason.

  10. #110
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    What custom changes did you make Geetee?

  11. #111
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    I have ordered from 1 month with a stronger down tube for fit a 180 fork ocasionally

  12. #112
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    Well in the end it turned out that I ended up with an Ion 16! It was all custom geometry as follows:

    HA 66 degrees
    BB +10mm
    TT 595mm
    Reach 419mm
    SA 73.5 degrees
    ST 430mm
    CS no change
    WB 1163mm

    Then I specified the ZS44/56 head tube, stealth drilling for a Reverb, full dark green ano, white extra love, black graphics, 30.9mm seat tube (means it was compatible with the Reverb I had at the time although in the end I just swapped that out for a stealth one. The thicker ST does mean that you can lose the bracing struts between the ST and TT though, which I think looks neater).

    One other thing I asked for was a bit 'tarty' but I like it and that was to have 'GeeTee' stamped into the right hand seat stay.

    Here it is:



    I also ended up swapping the wheels out. I had so many problems with the rear Haven (twice I ended up breaking spokes and had the usual endless trouble with the freehub) that in the end I demanded a refund and got one. I've replaced them with Enve AMs on Chris King hubs with Sapim CX Ray spokes, regular 32/32 and built by an Enve specialist local to me called Strada.

    I've only managed to ride it three times before I crashed and shattered my humerus. I'm almost done healing but I broke the bone beginning of October and am not allowed to ride again until February!

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    Here it is:
    I am not following - that is a Helius, is not it?

  14. #114
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    Sorry yes, it's a Helius AM. I meant that with the geometry changes I made, I ended up with the same geometry as the Ion 16. I'm sure it's pure coincidence but I was making the specification at the same time the Ion 16 was on the drawing board. I had conversations with Vincent about the Ion so I knew it was coming and that most likely it would be very close to what I wanted but in the end decided not to wait. I ordered mind in the summer last year and got it in the middle of September.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    Well in the end it turned out that I ended up with an Ion 16! It was all custom geometry as follows:

    HA 66 degrees
    BB +10mm
    TT 595mm
    Reach 419mm
    SA 73.5 degrees
    ST 430mm
    CS no change
    WB 1163mm

    Then I specified the ZS44/56 head tube, stealth drilling for a Reverb, full dark green ano, white extra love, black graphics, 30.9mm seat tube (means it was compatible with the Reverb I had at the time although in the end I just swapped that out for a stealth one. The thicker ST does mean that you can lose the bracing struts between the ST and TT though, which I think looks neater).

    One other thing I asked for was a bit 'tarty' but I like it and that was to have 'GeeTee' stamped into the right hand seat stay.

    Here it is:



    I also ended up swapping the wheels out. I had so many problems with the rear Haven (twice I ended up breaking spokes and had the usual endless trouble with the freehub) that in the end I demanded a refund and got one. I've replaced them with Enve AMs on Chris King hubs with Sapim CX Ray spokes, regular 32/32 and built by an Enve specialist local to me called Strada.

    I've only managed to ride it three times before I crashed and shattered my humerus. I'm almost done healing but I broke the bone beginning of October and am not allowed to ride again until February!
    I know this is a little off-topic

    Love this

    Ive seen you over on STW. Seriously thinking of going for a AM. If you dont mind me asking with that custom geo how tall are you?

    Also roughly, what sort of price are we looking at for a complete custom build frame?...So tempted to replace my s-works enduro with one.

  16. #116
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    I suggest you contact Dipper to sort out current prices, they've gone up a bit for custom charge but he is very good. richard@gravity-sports.co.uk

    I love my Nicolaaaaiiiiii..
    Aka chainline...

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by J273 View Post
    I know this is a little off-topic

    Love this

    Ive seen you over on STW. Seriously thinking of going for a AM. If you dont mind me asking with that custom geo how tall are you?

    Also roughly, what sort of price are we looking at for a complete custom build frame?...So tempted to replace my s-works enduro with one.
    Hi there - great to be in touch and thanks for the question. Yes I am on STW, I try not to waste too much time there but I dabble every now and then. I've also met some great friends via that site so it's mostly all good

    To answer your question, I am just shy of six feet tall with a 32" inside leg. I previously had a large AM before this one, with the seat tube cut down so that it was only 15" (that wasn't quite what I had expected but it worked just fine anyway).

    I also came to the Helius AM from a 2005 Enduro (not sure which model year you have); I loved that bike and only replaced it because I eventually cracked the butress that split the seat tube where the damper went. I had a medium and the large Helius AM was the closest to that in terms of length. The bike I have now is more or less identical to the Enduro I had before.

    The large felt great in terms of length but having also owned other bikes that were shorter in the cockpit, I realised that I wanted something slightly shorter than the 605mm TT of the large but not as short as the 585mm medium. Hence I went exactly half way between them at 595mm.

    The biggest change I made was to lower the BB. This is personal preference and suits my riding style better. I went +10mm above the chainline, which more or less equates to other bike manufacturers' quoted heights of 13.3"

    The up charge for a full custom frame is now £650 (it was £500). I used to think £500 was a lot but honestly for all the additional work they have to do to make a custom frame, it doesn't surprise me that they had to increase the price.

    The price then of my frame above is a bit eye watering. With all the extras (green ano front and rear, white levers, custom geom, my name stamped on the seat stay ) I think the final price was £2740 and that doesn't include the shock

    Yes, not cheap, but I was able to liberate £900 from my old frame and this was a 40th birthday present.

    Depending on where you are, I would be very happy to let you try mine or if you're not close, I am sure that there are people nearby who would offer you the same courtesy. Tell us where you are and what you're looking for and we'll all try to help get you into the group!

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    Hi there - great to be in touch and thanks for the question. Yes I am on STW, I try not to waste too much time there but I dabble every now and then. I've also met some great friends via that site so it's mostly all good

    To answer your question, I am just shy of six feet tall with a 32" inside leg. I previously had a large AM before this one, with the seat tube cut down so that it was only 15" (that wasn't quite what I had expected but it worked just fine anyway).

    I also came to the Helius AM from a 2005 Enduro (not sure which model year you have); I loved that bike and only replaced it because I eventually cracked the butress that split the seat tube where the damper went. I had a medium and the large Helius AM was the closest to that in terms of length. The bike I have now is more or less identical to the Enduro I had before.

    The large felt great in terms of length but having also owned other bikes that were shorter in the cockpit, I realised that I wanted something slightly shorter than the 605mm TT of the large but not as short as the 585mm medium. Hence I went exactly half way between them at 595mm.

    The biggest change I made was to lower the BB. This is personal preference and suits my riding style better. I went +10mm above the chainline, which more or less equates to other bike manufacturers' quoted heights of 13.3"

    The up charge for a full custom frame is now £650 (it was £500). I used to think £500 was a lot but honestly for all the additional work they have to do to make a custom frame, it doesn't surprise me that they had to increase the price.

    The price then of my frame above is a bit eye watering. With all the extras (green ano front and rear, white levers, custom geom, my name stamped on the seat stay ) I think the final price was £2740 and that doesn't include the shock

    Yes, not cheap, but I was able to liberate £900 from my old frame and this was a 40th birthday present.

    Depending on where you are, I would be very happy to let you try mine or if you're not close, I am sure that there are people nearby who would offer you the same courtesy. Tell us where you are and what you're looking for and we'll all try to help get you into the group!

    Thanks for that much appreciated....Hope you dont mind me posting here. Dont want to ruin your thread


    Im the same height as you and was tempted with your old AM when you was selling.

    I currently ride a 2010 enduro carbon but find the large a little too long and the medium a bit too short, being inbetween sizes at a shade under 6ft.

    The top tube length of 595mm is that actual or horizontal ?

    Many thanks

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by J273 View Post
    Thanks for that much appreciated....Hope you dont mind me posting here. Dont want to ruin your thread


    Im the same height as you and was tempted with your old AM when you was selling.

    I currently ride a 2010 enduro carbon but find the large a little too long and the medium a bit too short, being inbetween sizes at a shade under 6ft.

    The top tube length of 595mm is that actual or horizontal ?

    Many thanks
    That is the horizontal measurement. If you PM me through here and send me your email address I can send you the design drawings so you can see how it all lays out.

    595mm ended up giving me a 420smm reach.

  20. #120
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    Good day all,

    I have a question in regards to ordering an ION16. Those that have ordered one, how did you complete the order? Via email or over the phone? I have sent a couple of emails to Nicolai, but have not received responses (could be spam filter). I would like to call but do not speak German and do not want to be perceived at an "ugly American". Is calling an option?

    Additionally, for those who have ordered could you PM me on why you bought one and explain the ordering process? I have a 2012 Turner 5Spot and love it! However, I want to ride a little more aggressively and try some amateur eduro and use it at a bike park.
    Thanks for your time.

    Cheers,

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjkitt View Post
    Good day all,

    I have a question in regards to ordering an ION16. Those that have ordered one, how did you complete the order? Via email or over the phone? I have sent a couple of emails to Nicolai, but have not received responses (could be spam filter). I would like to call but do not speak German and do not want to be perceived at an "ugly American". Is calling an option?

    Additionally, for those who have ordered could you PM me on why you bought one and explain the ordering process? I have a 2012 Turner 5Spot and love it! However, I want to ride a little more aggressively and try some amateur eduro and use it at a bike park.
    Thanks for your time.

    Cheers,
    No problem with speaking English to them, I've done it a number of times in the past.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjkitt View Post
    Good day all,

    I have a question in regards to ordering an ION16. Those that have ordered one, how did you complete the order? Via email or over the phone? I have sent a couple of emails to Nicolai, but have not received responses (could be spam filter). I would like to call but do not speak German and do not want to be perceived at an "ugly American". Is calling an option?

    Additionally, for those who have ordered could you PM me on why you bought one and explain the ordering process? I have a 2012 Turner 5Spot and love it! However, I want to ride a little more aggressively and try some amateur eduro and use it at a bike park.
    Thanks for your time.

    Cheers,
    They do not answer emails right away, but they do answer. No problem with English. Mine is worse. I have ended up placing an order through their US representative, which was slightly cheaper delivered. Mailed a deposit check, than the balance after the frame was done. I have emailed the features I wanted (color, cable routing, extra water bosses etc.)

    I bought Helius AM because I wanted a longer travel bike to replace my Kona, with better (subjectively) suspension and more modern frame features - to be run with 170mm fork. I was considering switching it to 650b, but decided against it in the end. I have a 120mm FS trail bike as well.

  23. #123
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    loamranger and Axe,

    Thanks for the replies. I just might call them next week.

    Axe, who is the US rep? Could you pass me their contact information? Is it just "usa@nicolai.net"?

    Last quesiton, do you know their production run schedule? I think they have a projected delivery for April on orders now. If I order in a month or so will it be a couple month wait or will I have to wait for another production run 6-12 months from now.

    Thanks again!

    Cheers

  24. #124
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    Hey I want to thank everyone for their help. Just got my ION16 (lg) ordered! Going "STEALTH" black ano frame, extra love black ano on the bits, with black glossy stickers!

    Cheers,

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjkitt View Post
    Hey I want to thank everyone for their help. Just got my ION16 (lg) ordered! Going "STEALTH" black ano frame, extra love black ano on the bits, with black glossy stickers!

    Cheers,
    Bad choice. Very bad choice. It got to have dark red stickers.

    Any plans on the shock and kit?

  26. #126
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    Ion 16 Gussets I think.

    Ion 16 Breaks Cover-gussets.jpg

  27. #127
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    Never enough singletracks !

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Bad choice. Very bad choice. It got to have dark red stickers.

    Any plans on the shock and kit?

    Axe,
    I have a CCDB air on my 5spot...after riding a CCDB air its hard to use anything else. Along with the CCDB air was thinking of checking out X-Fusion's Slant 34mm stanchion 160mm fork. Kit will be a bastard..XO/X9 shifters and mechs, XT ICE brakes, E*thirteen TRS double crank (175mm w/22-36t) w/ chain retention device. I just dropped off some Hope evo2 hubs to get laced up with Sapim spokes to WTB Frequency i23 rims. Probably a KS LEV unless Thomson's seat post comes out with a stationary cable.

    Looking forward to the build, have time, looks like I'm in the week 16 production slot.

    Thanks again for everyone's assistance.

    Cheers,
    Last edited by jjkitt; 02-02-2013 at 07:51 PM.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by samwell View Post
    Looks like everybody switched to Ion from Helius. I guess the new frame features make sense when ordering new.

    Keep us updated.

  30. #130
    yet another stupid german
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    This is almost unbearable...
    I've got all the kit waiting here and the frames are probably gonna be delayed 1-2 weeks because the gussets have to be welded on now....

    aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjkitt View Post
    Along with the CCDB air was thinking of checking out X-Fusion's Slant 34mm stanchion 160mm fork.
    I can't recommend 170mm coil Lyrik with DH damper enough. Coil is completely worth a little extra weight. Everything else feels bad in comparison now. With 1.5" (49mm) tube I was able to keep the ride height by using Orbit E low stack headset - running 1.5" straight steerer. Stiff. I guess with the new larger low cup there are more choices for zero stack low cup.

    DH damper feels very balanced with CCDBA in the back. I do not want shocks without separate LSC/HSC anymore. No more "platforms" or lockouts. Hope somebody makes an equally good light trail fork.

  32. #132
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    Just put the deposit down on a large Ion 16!

    Now comes the fun part of picking components.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I can't recommend 170mm coil Lyrik with DH damper enough. Coil is completely worth a little extra weight. Everything else feels bad in comparison now....DH damper feels very balanced with CCDBA in the back. I do not want shocks without separate LSC/HSC anymore. No more "platforms" or lockouts.
    Axe,
    Thanks for the recommendation. I was thinking of getting a used coil fork as a back-up to use as a "fork-up" when I take the ION16 to the bike park...but after your comment I will have to take another look.

    Cheers,

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjkitt View Post
    Axe,
    Thanks for the recommendation. I was thinking of getting a used coil fork as a back-up to use as a "fork-up" when I take the ION16 to the bike park...but after your comment I will have to take another look.
    If you worry how you will climb with no travel adjust and no lockout switch - don't, IMHO. I can clear rocky climbs that I have trouble on my 120mm, 10lb lighter trail bike - with Magura Durin (not a bad fork at all) and pushed Fox Float. Its uncanny how CCDB and DH mission control keep things wobble and bobble free... With Ion's shock rate and stretched geometry it should be even better on the way up..

  35. #135
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    Just found out my order has been confirmed for production week 20 with an estimated delivery of 1 JUNE. I was expecting a spot in week 16-17...so I am a little bummed that I won’t have the ION16 for my Ashville NC trip. But still stoked I'm confirmed/slotted and that I'll have the frame for my Durango, CO trip!

    Hope all is well with everyone and looking forward to seeing everyone’s frames once they receive them!

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjkitt View Post
    Just found out my order has been confirmed for production week 20 with an estimated delivery of 1 JUNE. I was expecting a spot in week 16-17...so I am a little bummed that I won’t have the ION16 for my Ashville NC trip. But still stoked I'm confirmed/slotted and that I'll have the frame for my Durango, CO trip!

    Hope all is well with everyone and looking forward to seeing everyone’s frames once they receive them!

    Cheers,
    Just one tidbit I just learned. CCDBA made before last Septemer or so, can be upgraded to high flow inner air can - service centers can do that. Sending mine out later today. It effectively reduces internal air-flow induced damping - so you can get it back with proper HSC and LSC adjustments if needed. This can is now standard. (And that is not the high volume outer can that just came out. Cane Creek people thought it also could be a good upgrade on my Helius - do not know about Ion as it has falling rate from the start).

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Just one tidbit I just learned. CCDBA made before last Septemer or so, can be upgraded to high flow inner air can - service centers can do that. Sending mine out later today. It effectively reduces internal air-flow induced damping - so you can get it back with proper HSC and LSC adjustments if needed. This can is now standard. (And that is not the high volume outer can that just came out. Cane Creek people thought it also could be a good upgrade on my Helius - do not know about Ion as it has falling rate from the start).
    Axe,
    I have the new high flow inner can on my 5Spot...it is fantastic and makes a world of difference. Plan to get the same configuration for the ION16 and try NICOLAI's tune they have listed in their 2013 catalog. Thanks for the info!

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  38. #138
    yet another stupid german
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    that pretty much coincides with all ion16 orderers, on an average they have all been shoved ~4weeks behind planned schedule, same for me

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  39. #139
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    I'm new to this forum, but thought i would add my bit.

    My Ion is due for shipping in week 10 as i got my oder in early doors, can't wait...

    Having spoken with Nicolai on the CCDBA they recommended I purchased it through them as the standard model would not work well with the Ion design

    Qoute from Moritz at Nicolai

    "Our high volume DB air is not standard, but i don´t know if or when it will be available in the aftermarket.
    The standard DB air is way too progressive for the Ion 16, so it will just work poorly."

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    don't think so... you need high direct mount
    Note that they come in double and triple, and in dual pull and top pull. My guess you would need dual-pull (for bottom routing) and double (for bike usage)

  41. #141
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    CCDB air HV can and ION16 leverage ratio

    Quote Originally Posted by sloanranger View Post
    I'm new to this forum, but thought i would add my bit.

    My Ion is due for shipping in week 10 as i got my oder in early doors, can't wait...

    Having spoken with Nicolai on the CCDBA they recommended I purchased it through them as the standard model would not work well with the Ion design

    Qoute from Moritz at Nicolai

    "Our high volume DB air is not standard, but i don´t know if or when it will be available in the aftermarket.
    The standard DB air is way too progressive for the Ion 16, so it will just work poorly."
    Sloanranger,
    Welcome to the forum and congrats on getting your order in early. I wish I had, but it took some time to convince my better half.

    I am also looking at the high volume CCDB air. I just read Pinkbike's review of the CCDB air with the high volume canister on a 2013 Banshee Rune. Cane Creek Double Barrel Air - Tested - Pinkbike
    They state the "new high-volume air can...better suits the Rune's progressive leverage ratio".
    So my question to bounce off what NICOLAI's rep said in regards HV can, does the ION16 have "a relatively progressive rear suspension rate"?
    ION16 ratio 2013.pdf

    I think the answer is "yes" but would appreciate everyone's insight.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  42. #142
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    Ion 16 update

    Ion 16 Breaks Cover-dsc_4097.jpg
    The answer to your question is definetley "Yes", which is why Cane Creek have developed the DB Air XV (extra volume) to accomodate progressive suspension tunes.

    I have just recieved an email today from Nicolai with a photo of my main frame which is ready for powder coating this wednesday, so should be riding the new rig early next week. I'll post some pictures once i have it built up. The dissapointing news is that CCDB Air XV will not available till early April, but Nicolai have offered me an alternative shock until one arrives.

    Check out the detail on the seat gusset, i wasnt expecting the "ion" machining, so yet another nice detail.
    Last edited by sloanranger; 03-04-2013 at 08:24 AM.

  43. #143
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    sloanranger,
    Could you re-post/re-attach the pic? For some reason mtbr says it's an invalid link?

    Thanks for the information as well.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  44. #144
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    I don't see the Ion linkage as beeing overly progressive, if compared to Devinci Hectik, Norco Range or Banshee Rune they're all pretty much in the same ball park except for the Rune which regresses beyond 100mm... see Linkage

  45. #145
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    I agree, I'm only regurgitating stuff. I think the problem lies only with the DB air as I understand it was developed to assist regressive and neutral suspension curves and would give a poor setup on a progressive setup, therefore cane creek introduce high volume inner can, but it would seem this isn't enough for the Ion platform and therefore Nicolai recommend the Extra volume setup which has just been released. But I could be wrong

  46. #146
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    raschaa,

    Thanks for the info...since my orginal question I have been informed that Malcom at Cane Creek recommends the standard can for the ION16. My ION16 is not scheduled to arrive until June, so I have time to "wait and see" what other ION owners do.
    Thanks again for the info.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  47. #147
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    hey jj,

    friend of mine ordered with me as well and is getting ccdba so I should be able to give you a "heads-up" in the next 2 weeks. I have a 2013 x-fusion vector air waiting here for my Ion16, have one in my Ion20 and it works a dream there so I've got my fingers crossed that it will do me just as good in the 16

  48. #148
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    raschaa,

    Thanks, I appreciate it...its all guessing until someone takes it out for some drops and jumps (at least to me). I was also thinking the X-Fusion vector air would be a good option too. Did you order it direct from X-Fusion and did you get a specific tune?

    Thanks again.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  49. #149
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    got mine from german distributor, they don't do special tunes but the clicker range is large enough to get it dialed well (at least on my ion20). i hear x-fusion usa does individual tune for I believe it was 50usd...

    the first 38 ion16 frames in the temper oven:
    Ion 16 Breaks Cover-553134_567102179975971_467184614_n.jpg

  50. #150
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    AWH MAN! Great pictures! Getting very excited, man June can't come soon enough!
    Ok, thanks for the info on the XFusion...yeah, I was aware the US office did tunes, just wanted to see if you had a specific tune. I will have to touch base with them.

    Thanks again for the info, look forward to you and your buddies shock set-up suggestions and keep the awesome pictures coming.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  51. #151
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    Looking at the Ion16 leverage ratio it seems it has a falling rate (progressive) all the way through its travel. From what little i understand, this means that the standard DB air will suffer with compression damping issue and riders may not be able to use full travel, therefore a larger air volume remedies this.

    If you are correct and the Rune has regressive nature towards the end of its stroke then the standard can should work a treat.

    So im a bit confused now, if cane creek have advised jj that a standard can is the one, then there is a bit of conflict going on as Nicolai have advised not to go down this route, I'm sticking with the advise of these guys as they design the frame and tested it, and I'm advised that Nicolai staff will be installing the DB air XV as its the best setup available.

    They actually offer the DB Air at a reasonable price too so cant complain.

  52. #152
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    Ion 16 Breaks Cover

    Quote Originally Posted by sloanranger View Post
    Looking at the Ion16 leverage ratio it seems it has a falling rate (progressive) all the way through its travel. From what little i understand, this means that the standard DB air will suffer with compression damping issue and riders may not be able to use full travel, therefore a larger air volume remedies this.

    If you are correct and the Rune has regressive nature towards the end of its stroke then the standard can should work a treat.

    So im a bit confused now, if cane creek have advised jj that a standard can is the one, then there is a bit of conflict going on as Nicolai have advised not to go down this route, I'm sticking with the advise of these guys as they design the frame and tested it, and I'm advised that Nicolai staff will be installing the DB air XV as its the best setup available.

    They actually offer the DB Air at a reasonable price too so cant complain.
    High volume can is $40 and easy to swap. I will try both on Helius once it comes out.

    Upgraded inner can to the current high flow. It does make a difference.

    What still bugs me a lot - can touches the swing link on Helius (just barely), but that means in 171mm mode I can not fit water bottle below it. I am about to take a file to the link and notch it for clearance. Grr.

  53. #153
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    Axe,
    Great comment/point....just what I was thinking too. I'm going to put the HV can on my 5Spot and test it out...so shouldn't be a big deal with the ION16.

    Best to all and thanks for the comments.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  54. #154
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    Guys

    Here is a response from Nicolai regarding DB Air

    "We tested both versions of the DB Air, the standard one and the XV with our team riders, workmates and Gino Schliffske from Flatout Suspension.
    The standard DB air was just too progressive from the mid stroke and therefore it didn´t feel as vivid as the XV.
    With the XV you have a really good range to adjust the progression with the air can spacers, the suspension feels supple but without diving in the sag"

    Hope this helps.

  55. #155
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    sloanranger,

    Thanks, helps a TON!

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  56. #156
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    Finally in Large...




    3464g with Reset Flatstack A4 und Hollowlite BB (ca.180g together), shock mounting screws and axle

    Netto 3284g

  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    Finally in Large...
    Very cool...are those the standard decals? And everything else in Raw?

    Is the headset included as standard?

  58. #158
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    Sweet!

    Raschaa,

    Looks great! Man, you have me second guessing my choice of black ano with extra love glossy black stickers!

    Thanks for sharing the pictures, looking forward to following your build up.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  59. #159
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    Decals can be had in pretty much any color, whatever floats your boat... mine are not the ones I ordered, got messed up somewhere along the way, but thats no biggy Ill just have them send me new ones.

    The headset and BB are not included, I ordered those along with the frame and they mounted them for me. Reset-Racing make top notch stuff that suits a bike like Nicolai very well. They're close to Nicolai and Kalle and Herr Koehn (reset-racing) are old buddies. Can't recommend them enough.

    Build is almost completed, finishing touches and pics tomorrow. But to raise the suspense, I had it on the scales and hung the not yet mounted rear brake and front mech on the pedal......






    13.1kg

    and JJ, black ano + glossy decals is timeless, don't worry about it

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    and JJ, black ano + glossy decals is timeless, don't worry about it
    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  61. #161
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    Some detail pics?


  62. #162
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    looks really good raschaa... looking forward to seeing the complete pics.

  63. #163
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    Ok, not 100% finished and not a very good pic, but here she is^^





    weight w/o front mech 12,90kg

  64. #164
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    what size is it raschaa. I think thats about the same weight as an AM taking ino account the axle is in?
    Aka chainline...

  65. #165
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    The frame is L and weighs 3264g with axle and shock hardware

  66. #166
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    Ooh, I read that 2 as a 4. Encouraged now for the Ion29. My old med AM 26" was 3350 without anything. Painted tough I suppose.

    My L AC/AM 29 hybrid is 3330 without anything black ano.

    Ion29 will be raw too.

    Will you put a dropper post on it?
    Aka chainline...

  67. #167
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    occasionally yes, but 80% of the time I don't need one...

  68. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalkhoffpink View Post
    .... and the suspension is more
    linear than progeressive. ...
    Yes, why design a linear rate when yer average air shock is progressive at the last 1/2 - 1/3 of the travel. Wouldn`t you rather want a progressive rate matched to the progressiveness of the shock to give a linear resultant feel?

  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    occasionally yes, but 80% of the time I don't need one...
    So, have you had chance to break her in yet, how does it respond and whats the stiffness like on the rear....

    Finger crossed mine should be arriving soon, already running a week late, but cant all good things come to those who wait..

  70. #170
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    No, weather has been atrocious past few days (loads of wet snow ), just a quick run up and down the street... shock feels like it suits the linkage ratio really well, very little pedaling influence, rear feels stiff enough under heavy pedaling (but I'm no sprinter^^)

    hoping the snow melts next few days...

    all good things DO come to those who can wait!

    Oh, and be wary of how short you cut the steerer tube. the short tapered tube + zerostack puts the bars so low that my shifters hit the top tube massively...

  71. #171
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    Hi raschaa,

    do you have mounted a 160 rear disc ?
    could you show any pic from behind of rear brake ?
    I want to mount rear a hope m4 calippers with a 160 disc and I think that is not necessary any caliper adapter but there is not space for a nut to install the screw , I need some help..

  72. #172
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    sorry, won't work. the Ion 16 has a postmount 180 welded on to the chainstay...

    for lots of (detail) pics see my album at german mtb-news.de

    for bigger size scroll down on right side...

    Micro (80×80, 4.2 KiB)
    Thumbnail (150×113, 10.5 KiB)
    Mittel (550×413, 104.1 KiB)
    Groß (1024×768, 289.6 KiB)
    Original (2000×1500, 359.3 KiB)

  73. #173
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    I have seen your pics, my question is , how have you attached the caliper at the place becouse the orifices does not have a thread , is it necessary any special screw ?

    here you got my frame

    Ion 16 Breaks Cover-pinza2.jpg

  74. #174
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    fixed, missing the bag with the cilinders

  75. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by xixo one View Post
    fixed, missing the bag with the cilinders
    Good catch! Would have sucked if you mistakenly threw them away. The replaceable thread inserts are not common enough to be found at the local bike shop.
    When you get a chance post some pictures of your build. I would be interested to see.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  76. #176
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    next week it will be finished , I´ll show pics

  77. #177
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    they forgot to send me the pm inserts, but I had some from an Ikea cupboard, they work too LOL

    sorry I didn't mention the threaded inserts, I kinda figured that was self-explanatory...

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    they forgot to send me the pm inserts, but I had some from an Ikea cupboard, they work too LOL

    sorry I didn't mention the threaded inserts, I kinda figured that was self-explanatory...
    Hmmm, good to know. I have another bike brand (Turner) that use the PM inserts. Guess I'll play it safe and order a set from them just in case. Can always save them for the 5Spot if I get them with the ION16.

    xixo one, your frame looks great!! Great choice of the raw and blue, very sharp!!
    Look forward to seeing it built and both of your impressions on rear shock choices.

    Cheers
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  79. #179
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    on another note...

    the clamp for the front derailleur seriously disappointed me, uuuuuugly and not worthy of being mounted on a N frame... took half an hour to transform it into "acceptable".



    I can recommend routing the rear brake hose through the horst link:



    I couldnt' get a clean routing because the PM mount is so wide in comparison to an adapter that the fitting wouldn't clear the mount without having to go up-and-over...

    got a 2 hour ride in yesterday during a sunny patch at round about freezing... nothing spectacular because I'm still having problems with my meniscus after a bouldering incident back in december

    although I've done no training the past 4 months I was astonished how well Ion + I mastered the climbs, so I'll give that to the bike... rear felt plenty stiff when mashing the pedals and bob was almost non-existent. It does feel pretty slack with the "low" setting and 170 Lyrik, will flip it to "high" next round for comparison. On a ca. 500m stretch with lots of roots, some of them arm-thick, the rear felt nice, not cushy soft, just well damped and controlled, taking enough of the hits to let me stay seated (post fully extended) and pedaling, BB height was not an issue...

    hope to get in some serious trail riding with airtime soon
    Last edited by raschaa; 03-24-2013 at 01:03 AM.

  80. #180
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    ... and if we just ... Ion 16 slack.................

    Ion 16 Breaks Cover-image.jpgHere's mine at last , all built up but no chance of riding as everywhere is covered in snow.

    The low stack height is very alien to me at the moment, I'm so used to a much higher bar height, but we will see how things are when I can get out for a ride.

    It looks like I'm the only one who hasn't gone for the raw effect.

    Ion 16 Breaks Cover-ion-16-right.jpgIon 16 Breaks Cover-ion-16-left.jpg

    I measured the fork angle with my iphone (which is accurate enough) and very slack ........ at 63.5 ( un weighted) in 'low' setting, this is with a 170 lyric and Hans Damf up front and Conti RQ 2.2 at the rear.

    Below is my spec:


    • Rider height, weight, ride style: 5ft 11inch, 90kg, All Mountain, XC, DH, Freeride.
    • Frame, Size & Colour:, Gloss White & Anodised Black, Zero Stack Tapered Headtube, 12mm Rear Axle
    • Fork: RS Lyric 170 DH Solo Air
    • Shock: Cane Creek DB Air, 216mm i2i, 63mm stroke
    • Brakes: Formula R0 F&R, 203mm front, 185mm rear
    • Cranks: Sram X9 with MRP 28T Bling Ring
    • Shifters: Shimano XT
    • Rear Deraileur: Shimano Zee (short cage)
    • Pedals: DMR Vault
    • Stem: Renthal Duo
    • Handlebar: Easton Haven Carbon
    • Seatpost: RS Stealth Reverb
    • Seatclamp: Hope QR
    • Saddle: FiZik Gobi
    • Bottom Bracket: Hope Stainless
    • Cassette: Shimano 36-11XT
    • Chain: KMC Gold
    • Headset: Hope
    • Grips: Renthal Super Soft Lock On
    • Front Tyre: Continental 2.2 Rubber Queen or Schwable 2.35 Hans Dampf (running tubeless)
    • Front Rim/Spokes: Mavic Crossmax SX
    • Rear Tyre: Continental 2.2 Rubber Queen Queen or Schwable 2.35 Hans Dampf (running tubeless)
    • Rear Rim/Spokes: Mavic Crossmax SX
    • Misc: MRP Micro G2 chain device, helicopter taped in specific zones


    Bathroom scales weight = 13kg (which i think must be incorrect)
    Last edited by sloanranger; 03-26-2013 at 03:21 AM. Reason: Update

  81. #181
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    sloanranger,

    Build looks great, love the seatstays!

    Could you explain on how to set "high and low"? I.E. what is the position of the bolt/nut for high and low?

    Cheers,
    Last edited by jjkitt; 03-27-2013 at 11:33 AM.
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  82. #182
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    Ion 16 Breaks Cover-ion-16-instruction.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by jjkitt View Post
    sloanranger,

    Build looks great, love the seatstays!

    Could you explain on how to set "high and low"? I.E. what is the position of the bolt/nut for high and low?

    Cheers,

    Nicolai Instructions enclosed:

  83. #183
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    Sloanranger,

    Thanks for posting. Sent you a PM.

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  84. #184
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    here you got , now 13950gr , but finally it will be 13900gr in a few days , with

    Marzocchi 55 rc3 evo v2 ti
    Monarch rt3
    Hope m4 brakes
    Carbon handlebar
    xtr transmission
    sixc crankset
    ztr flow+ti spokes+ dt240s wheels
    Minion front
    Ignitor rear
    Reverb stealth
    Selle Italia slr xc flow
    size M

  85. #185
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    That looks mint, sloanranger - it might have made my colour decision for me - I have Crossmax SX and Devilles on my Spicy to transfer over, white front triangle and black rear end was what I had in mind.

    Is that decal setup custom, or do they include extra decals in the box?

  86. #186
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    well, finally got in 4 hrs of serious trail bangin'... still have the smile on my face

    performance in the rear was awesome, felt bottomless (x-fusion vector hlr air), very controlled midstroke when hammering berms and pumping the roots and rocks, no noticable flex and had 2-3 mm shock stroke in reserve... got courageous and started hitting the 2 sections of trail that would justify using a dh bike at the same speed I would on my Ion20... WOW, that worked really well, of course not as stable and quite a bit heavier on the "bodywork" end of matters, but very composed and fast. it's matching my lyrik rc2dh very nicely and when I get more time on the new shock to find my setup, I'l probably have to do some tweaking of the fork^^

  87. #187
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    Hi guys, a video of last Monday with my new Ion 16



    720p is available on choice

  88. #188
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    Are there any more reviews on how the bike rides? I try to read the German forums but google translate isn't too helpful and I can only make out problems with fitting shimano front mechs.

    Not many ride reports about and I'm having second thoughts and thinking of cancelling my order as all I read is problems. :S

  89. #189
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    which problems? my shimano slx mech fits perfect... german mtb-news forum is lacking ride reports as well, nobody (besides myself) has posted anything beyond "wow", "excellent" etc etc.

    I'm not a heavy pedaler and doing the uphill is just a means for hitting the down in my case. I have no real comparison for uphill performance, but I met up with one guy from the german forum to let him test ride mine. he had a trek slash and ordered an ion16 right after riding mine, he was blazing fast on the up (I felt like I was going backwards ) and did a good job going down and said it was loads better than his slash up and down.

    I recently did an all day shuttle assisted 8 runs on one of my favorite trails and have to say the dh performance is immaculate. it has a totally solid and reassuring feel that makes you want to go faster and faster, I was really blown away by the speed at which I could hit really gnarly sections and yet it still is flickable and nimble in the techy stuff.

    german "world of mtb" magazine tested 14 enduro bikes in their latest issue and the ion 16 was deemed the ""testcrews favorite". their only gripe was that they felt it could have a slightly steeper seat angle. if you are desperate I could translate a synopsis for you but you'd have to give me a few days because I've got other things to do (like riding my ion16^^)...

    I figure that the Ion16 is pretty much a enduro racers dream, maybe not the best on the climb but whoa, going down it's gonna be hard to beat.

    yet another of my 2 cents

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by raschaa View Post
    which problems? my shimano slx mech fits perfect...
    On my Helius AM - model before the chainstay direct mount - I had to dremel out a corner of SLX short cage front derailleur to fit it properly. Long cage would not fit. I think they design it around SRAM. Not a big deal - most long travel bikes with front derailleur have some fitment issues. We do not hear about them a lot as most bikes are sold as completes, with an appropriate part already installed.

  91. #191
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    It´s true , on my ion 16 the xtr front derailleaur does not work fine , I use a 24/36 sixc crankset with a xtr derailleur and I can´t adjust correct the chain with the 24 chainring , I tried differen combinations of spacers on the cranks and at this moment with the 24t the chain touch the derailleaur , I´m waiting for a response from Nicolai about it and I hope adjust the chain as soon as possible, on vid of last Monday with my ion.


  92. #192
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    yes, they do design around sram mech. that was recently confirmed by Vinc of N in mtb-news.de forum... I really don't see the problem either and others I know nothing of.

  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalla View Post
    Are there any more reviews on how the bike rides? I try to read the German forums but google translate isn't too helpful and I can only make out problems with fitting shimano front mechs.

    Not many ride reports about and I'm having second thoughts and thinking of cancelling my order as all I read is problems. :S
    I have managed to ride mine about a dozen times and i have no negatives to report, i run a 1 x 10 setup so dont have any issues with drivetrain.

    So far i would say it climbs exceptionaly well for me as my previous bike was a Helius AFR which has a very slack seat angle which puts your weight over the back. The downhill qualities are superb, again campairing to my AFR i would say it is better, this must be due to the head angle of 63.5 in low setting with a lyric 170.

    My only issue at the moment is the crap monarch rear shock which is a temp solution whilst i wait for my Canecreek DB Air. But even with this lame shock it climbs and decends exceptionaly well.

  94. #194
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    Thanks for the replies guys, certainly put my mind at ease. I guess I was getting attracted to all these new bikes being released and the 650b craze and wondering if i made the right decision.

    But I still think the Ion 16 is what I'm after, something that has amazing downhill performance, but can still be ridden uphill, and looking at your reports it certainly seems to be the case.

    Cheers

  95. #195
    yet another stupid german
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalla View Post
    .... something that has amazing downhill performance, but can still be ridden uphill ....
    OH Yes! you will be impressed....

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalla View Post
    Thanks for the replies guys, certainly put my mind at ease. I guess I was getting attracted to all these new bikes being released and the 650b craze and wondering if i made the right decision.

    But I still think the Ion 16 is what I'm after, something that has amazing downhill performance, but can still be ridden uphill, and looking at your reports it certainly seems to be the case.

    Cheers
    people of Nicolai said that this year will be an Ion16 650b

  97. #197
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    Was told my ION16 will start production this Monday, with a early June delivery. Getting pretty stoked!!

    How is everyone liking their built ION16s? Any lessons learned, build/kit items your really glad put on, things you wouldn't recommend, etc...?

    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  98. #198
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    Sorry, made double post.
    Cheers,
    "I Like the Cut of His Jib"

  99. #199
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    Had to cancel mine due to wife getting unexpectedly pregnant
    Last edited by Nalla; 04-10-2014 at 02:10 AM.

  100. #200
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    If it makes you guys feel any better I ordered my Helius AC Pinion in December, was told it would be here in February. Still waiting. I'm looking forward to it though.

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