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  1. #1
    steep fast and loose :)
    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
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    Helius AM Levers : 216 x 63 -v- 200 x 51

    perceived or true improvement ?
    if true improvement detail exactly why..........

    tia

  2. #2
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    Can you smell another project coming on?

    Maybe, just maybe if you were a pro DH rider, I would buy that you'd be able to discern the difference. As it is, frankly this is the MTB equivalent of Princess and Pea.

  3. #3
    steep fast and loose :)
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    geetee - seriously...................?
    i was hoping for this response, but there's noticeable difference in %ge terms between 51 and 63, thereby i'd 'expect' to notice the %ge difference in mid-stroke perhaps ?

  4. #4
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    Well obviously I am no suspension engineer so I need to be careful about what I say. But, thinking logically about it,perhaps the issue with the mid stroke is less about the aveage leverage ratio and more related to the specific leverage ratio at the particular point in the travel that you're referring to. There is a piece of software you can download for free that let's you analyse the specific leverage curve for a given bike.

    http://www.bikechecker.com/

  5. #5
    steep fast and loose :)
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    the AM's on that site geetee, but the interface is virus ridden...........

  6. #6
    steep fast and loose :)
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    can anyone provide any further details concerning the title subject, ie, is there a noticeable improvement in ride on the new 216 lever[s] ?

  7. #7
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    Hi, i'm new here in the forum.

    I'm in love for Nicolai for many years, but never had the budget for one of all those beauties, until now...

    I'm from Portugal, 23 yrs old and ride an Intense 6.6, but thinking on a Helius AM. I've been reading Nicolai's forum for years, and now that the time is coming i'm facing the same problem. I have a nice deal for an brand new Helius AM (2009 Medium Size, black anodized with red extra love) for 1600 euros ~1350 GBpounds ~ 2000 dollars, but i think M size is a little large to me (height: 1.75m ~ 5'9") so i'm in doubt between that frame and a 2011 Helius AM. The 2009 has the 200mm shock lever, so i'm with TLR to know which one (200 or 216mm) works best (climbing, descending, overall ?!?).

    What're you're thoughts about the best size for me (5'9") - S or M (or custom seat tube to 16.5"?) ? Does the 67,5 HA okay for you, when descending, or do you thing it could be slacker (as the 2011 could be with CC Angleset kit) ?

    Thanks for the Help
    Luis

  8. #8
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    Welcome

    Getting the correct size frame is THE single most important part of any bike purchase... most of the rest is gravy and can be changed as you go along... although there are certain things you may want to think about which cannot be changed!

    I'm 6ft and my Medium is spot on for size - I think you need a size down.

    I don't know if the new levers are better than the old as I've only tried the new... but they work well.

    Make sure you get a 1.5 or tapered headtube so you can do the angle change thing and/or have a good selection of forks in the future.

    As I posted elsewhere - I would like to drop the BB 10mm and slacken the head angle by a degree or two - I think 65deg would be perfect - 2011 with 1.5 and angleset will allow for this.

    Make sure you have the height for the seatpost of your choice if thinking of running one of the adjustable jobbies.

    Is the older frame HammerSchmit compatible, does it have 12mm dropouts etc - if you want these things.

  9. #9
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    Thanks TPM for your advices.

    Yes, the frame is HS compatible and 12mm axle. It hasn't 1.5" HT so no good for HA adjustments or future fork compatibility.

    The guy from the store said the frame was the right size for him (he's 5'7" - inch shorter than me), and also told me that AM frame has the same geometry (HA too) than AFR with the same fork size, like 545mm A2C 160mm, which put me thinking on this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp4EeMS71DQ

    I'll do no better riding than this...

    Well, i want to convince myself that, that frame (2009 one) was the best for me, but i guess that's just money talking (because it's a pretty good deal )...
    Last edited by fiat127; 09-06-2010 at 04:10 AM.

  10. #10
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    67.7 degree head angle on the AM is fine, I was worried about it being alittle steep but it's spot on, slacker and trail ride performance would be compromised IMO.

  11. #11
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    5'7" on a medium is wishful thinking

    If your not running a lot of seatpost you either have short legs and long body/arms or your on the wrong size bike

    On second thoughts 5'9" is probably fine on a Medium. I'm close to full extension on my I-beam post and am borderline for a large... yetimans large FR feels good for me... but not as good as my medium AM... I like my bikes small.

    Chances are the bargain frame is a good fit for you - my last Nicolai frame was a custom but I decided that this time the stock was close enough to my requirments... I was not wrong... it rocks.
    Last edited by thepimpmessiah; 09-06-2010 at 04:43 AM.

  12. #12
    steep fast and loose :)
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    i always used to run frames a size too small [18" instead of 19", etc] but realised my mistake a few years ago.
    i'm 6' tall [182cm] and run a large AM and it's perfectly sized, although i do have long arms and a 34" inseam.
    dipper's old AM was a medium and too small for me. cramped cockpit and i sat too far forward on the pedal stroke, even with a layback post and saddle at the rear of ot's rail travel.

    the ONLY option to ensure correct frame sizing is a demo.

    anyway back on track - the new 216mm levers - do they help eradicate pedal strike or improve the mid-stroke control ???

  13. #13
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    TLR,

    I read on the German forum, that the new levers improve mid-stroke, but that was not really in-depth reading, since I don't have a AM and it isn't the most "exciting" stuff for me.

    If I find something more fundamental, I'll post it.

  14. #14
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    Fiat 127, I am 180cm tall and a medium is perfect. I would say a small would be too tight. After thrashing the AM in the Alps last week I can confirm the std geo is spot on. Too slack and it would compromise its trial handling.

  15. #15
    steep fast and loose :)
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    testmaen - can you offer a link for me to read ?

    ta

  16. #16
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    TLR,

    there is no specific thread about it, i picked that up on several ocassions.

  17. #17
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    TLR,

    I'm trying to organize you something with a bit more substance.

  18. #18
    steep fast and loose :)
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    testmaen - much appreciated

  19. #19
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    One rider had an AM with the old levers and DHX coil and ordered a new one, with the new lever. Reason was another colour, not the new lever. New shock was also a DHX coil, but of course in 216x63mm.

    He says that he feels almost no difference. He felt that the rear was perfect before and is now as well.

    His/my guess is, that if you already run a coil shock, it might probably don't be worth the money/hazzle, because you won't feel that much difference.


    With an air shock this may be different, but I haven't found a rider yet, who had the experience.

  20. #20
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    When I spoke to Karl about it he told me the same thing, with coil there is no difference, with air shocks the new ones can be better, esp. for the Monarh E tune.

  21. #21
    steep fast and loose :)
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    nice one fella's.
    i'll be getting my monarch serviced and tuned if possible once winter approaches.

  22. #22
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    Ive also tried to imagine what would be those differences, if there are any real ones...

    Personally I believe that longer stroke is better if all other variables - mainly total rear travel - is kept the same. If changing mount to one hole lower to get lower leverage rate but same travel is possible, then there`s no question which is better ...

    Had today a ride (+4 hours rainy and bit slippery one) with a friend having FR - talked about our experiences related to suspension - he has 222mm Elka Stage 5 with 73mm stroke in his FR now, he has used 200mm and 216mm shocks too in his frame and he prefers too maximal or longer stroke and lowest possible leverage rate combined....

    Have tested now few weeks Elka too (200mm/57mm with 30/30 shims inside) in my AC against CCDB - every second day E-shock and every second CCDB
    Elka is a great shock, not a CCDB, but quite near.

  23. #23
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    TLR,

    here is probably the last riding impression, unfortunately another "216-only". The owner ordererd the 200x57mm version and got the frame with them. But he didn't immediately built the frame up, when a few days later the new levers were introduced, so he directly changed from the old ones to new ones.

    It seems that is the only thing I can do for now. I asked several guys, but I already posted, what I got.


    Quick setup of this AM:
    - 14,95kg
    - Lyrik Coil U-Turn
    - DHX Air
    - Shimano Saint brakes
    - adjustable seatpost
    - size "M", rider 1.82m ( 5.10/11 ?!); feels that the size is perfect for him

    Main riding is from tours with up to 1500 metres of altitude to light park use.

    Riding impressions:

    - at 30% sag, minimal pressure in the piggy bag and open bottom-out, the shock easily goes into the travel but without sitting in the sag. He says that correlates with the rather low compression

    - it was okay for him, but he likes a bit more compression to tune it in with the higher compression setting of the Lyrik

    - he put 170psi in the piggy-bag, with same adjustemtns for bottom-out and 30% sag

    - now he really liked the rear-suspension. Dropping the rear from 20cm height, the rear just says down without jumping back

    - no bob or getting deep in the sag pedaling uphill. He doesn't use the pro-pedal adjustment.

    - he says, that the Lyrik and the DHX now simply compliment each other. Even though one is coil and the other air sprung.

    - on almost every ride he uses 60mm of the 63mm shock stroke


    As all impressions, they are just impressions. I can't say if those riders are (very) experienced or not, I don't no any of them in person, so take it with a "grain of salt". But I guess they're better than nothing. If something comes up, I'll let you know.

  24. #24
    steep fast and loose :)
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    i'm now thinkinh the issues with my frameset are a mis-matched rear swingarm to my sized large front tri.

  25. #25
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    Testmaen: Cool to hear. I would love to try these levers and an air shock!

    TLR: Talk to Nic about it, there's a number on your swingarm so they can probably tell you one the phone. I don't really think that's your issue though.

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