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  1. #1
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    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
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    Helius AM - Leverage Rate ?

    Help requested.
    Does anyone know how the leverage rate on the Helius AM has been designed ?
    I want to know if the linkage rate is rising initially with end ramp-up, or falling wheel rate after mid-travel (reducing rate) ?
    At 160mm rear travel, the AMís leverage ratio is ~2.8 : 1. The provided Monarch 4.2 has tune code / damping rate No. 2.
    Looking at the design, I suspect the stroke is rising rate initially, then reducing rate after the mid stroke, which suits the air shock supply (air shocks having end stroke ramp-up).
    I suspect No 2 damping on the Monarch is a "linear" damping tune ?
    If you can assist, then itíll allow me to initiate discussions with some shock tuners to dial out the damping issues I have.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Would it not be worth cosidering bitting the bullet and going for a CCDB so you can tune it to your preference. At the end of the day the AM rides so light i doubt you'd notice a huge difference in RIDING WEIGHT even though it would add over a pound of static weight? I'm assuming the CCDB dosent have the blow thru problem that air shocks like the monarch and fox do?

    Just a thought, i'm sure once Dipper initiates the shock test we will discover coil is the way forward.

    Derek
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  3. #3
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    Hi TLR the web site says that the AM was designed around an air shock so I am guessing that your suspisions are correct would be nice to get a comment from Nicolai direct.

  4. #4
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    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
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    Garry AM - My civil engineering friend has analysed the pivot locations and come up with the following.
    The initial sag takes up the falling rate which then progresses into a linear stroke before progressing into faalling rate again.
    He suggests this works perfecdtly with an air shock as the falling rate at the beginning of the stroke works in conjunction with the shocks initial stiction (being air / seals, etc) , then the mid stroke is linear (my Monarch needs more rebound - PUSH upgrade please aqnyone), then entering the falling rate again, the air shock commences it's natural ramp up.

    I think this is what he suggested anyway - sounds plausible - Nicolai got any comments ?

    I wish the Nicolai guys were as available on here as Dave Turner and Dave Weagle are over on the Turner board - That way, we could cut out all the assumptions.

    Karl - We know you're out there

  5. #5
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    TLR I sent Simon (Nicolai UK) a PM earlier as I noticed he was reading this thread about lunch time. I asked him for more detail as it will help me / TF Tuned; tune the BOS Stoy I have ordered.

    Nicolai have got back to me and its going to Karl and the Tech's in the factory to answer.
    Last edited by Garry AM; 01-16-2009 at 01:41 PM.

  6. #6
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    Reputation: derekr's Avatar
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    Yeah i'd suggest contacting Germany direct (Karl) uk guys dont seem interested, best i've had are 5 or 6 word replies to emails.
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  7. #7
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    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
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    garry AM - let me know the result of the factory response please as I may be going BOS too

  8. #8
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    Ok will do TLR

  9. #9
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    Lol
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  10. #10
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    What bike is the Stoy going on? I've heard very good things about them - Tim F raves about them and the Australian distributor for Nicolai has one on his Ion and loves it.
    They also have the advantage of having a UK distributor and service centre unlike the CCDB.

  11. #11
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    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
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    geetee - how did the AM demo go ?

  12. #12
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    Ah well slight hiccup on the demo front - Nicolai UK were there in force with lots of very lovely Nicolais but unfortunately no hardware to mount the shock onto the Helius AM, so it wasn't available. Which was a shame because it was just stunning in one of the 'baby' blue type colours, except a little darker and with a touch of gray in it (Fernblau I think it was), and red anodised levers, full XT/Thomson/891/Fox 36 Talas RC2s etc. Very nice indeed and hadn't even been ridden.
    They are sending it off to MBR/Dirt/MBUK etc to be test ridden then I may get a chance to have a go but either way keep your eyes peeled for a mag review.
    On a separate note, the guys from Nicolai UK are top people - Mike, Simon and (I assume) Simon's partner (sorry I didn't get you name if you're reading this but it was lovely to meet you) all hugely enthusiastic, helpful and knowledgeable. And they all clearly love riding bikes.
    Seeing an AM in the flesh though just made me want one even more.

  13. #13
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    geetee, what other Nicolai's were there?

  14. #14
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    probably didn't have a 57mm shock, so used the old no bushings to fit excuse

  15. #15
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    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
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    back to the leverage rate - any feedback from the factory ? Karl Nicolai - can you help ?

  16. #16
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    The other bikes were mostly Helius CCs and Argon FRs. I've already tested the CC and was pretty impressed with it. For where I do trail rides, it's more than enough but the geometry isn't quite how I would want it. I was going to take out a Rholof equipped Argon but I bottled it and stuck with my current trail bike. They had a Nonius or two as well. All the bikes had a Rholof option as well.

    I head from Mike that they have a Medium Helius ST going spare up in Keswick Bikes - fire engine red with a black ano rear and a 1 1/8th head tube, which is the reason its spare - the customer wanted a 1.5. There was talk of a deal. Anyone interested should get in touch with Mike or Simon.

  17. #17
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    geetee - were the bikes Nicolai UK supplied or HFTH suplied ?

  18. #18
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    HFTH have their own CC and Argon FR with a Rholof. I believe the rest belonged to Nicolai.

  19. #19
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    Geetee - Thats great to hear about the Nicolai UK guys being so enthusiastic and helpful, makes me wonder why they are so bad at communicating via email; it gives a very bad impression where as your opinion after meeting them is completley different!!!

    I think they should come on here more often and make a better impression?

    They should get some lessons from the Turner guys
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  20. #20
    steep fast and loose :)
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    guys - any more word on the leverage rate from Germany yet ?
    I'm needing this info for my new special project

    fwiw, the pedal strike is now so bad, I managed to bend a Flatboy axle today

  21. #21
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    I believe Nicolai are putting together some info we may all be interested in. I know they're busy though so have some patience(I know thats hard for an only child like yourself!)

  22. #22
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    Yes I got a message from Simon that Karl is putting the leverage rates etc on to the web site for us.

  23. #23
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    Sweet
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  24. #24
    steep fast and loose :)
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    garry am - any word yet ? i need the leverage rates for my shock tune / dyno and base setting recommendation(s), thanks !

  25. #25
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    No nothing yet! I need it too to pick up my Stoy.

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