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  1. #1
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    Helius AM - Frame weights?

    I don't suppose any of you fine gentlemen would happen to know the weight of a large AM frame with 1.5 HT?
    Have emailed Nicolai direct but haven't heard back - must be due to the Easter Break.....

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    8lb with a DHX air

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    My large frame only has a regular 1 1/8th HT but it's painted to the nth degree (dizzy camo paint adds a little more than normal I think), but mine, stripped to the bone and not including the damper, is still not much above the published weight: 3.2kg versus a catalogue figure of 3.1kg. This is a verified weight on my own Park scales.
    Last edited by geetee1972; 04-27-2011 at 02:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry AM
    8lb with a DHX air
    About 3017g assuming a DHX Air is about 450g. So, with the AFR downtube at +142g, the weight for an AM/AFR hybrid frame should be around 3310g - does this seem a reasonable estimate?

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    AFR downtube is 60-80 gramms extra

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    @ geetee - I believe you are running a 32T ring up front? - how do you find it? I am thinking about the benefits of a 34T up front with a 11-36 (ten speed) on the rear - your thoughts? particularly for the type of riding found in and around the Peak District.

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    Hi Lorni,

    Yep running 32t up front and a 11-36 out back and then before that I was on 11-34 out back. The switch to 10 speed allowed the 11-36 and that extra low gear does make a big difference.

    Now this is one of those endlessly debated topics and it seems I am in a relative minority in standing firm on a 32t up front giving you a more than big enough gear for anything in the UK or indeed in the Alps. The only other people I know who agree with me are the two other guys I ride with, both of whom are on the same gearing as me.

    To support my claim, and in true geek OCD fashion, I've worked out that 32t front by 11t rear gives you 20mph at a manageable 90 rpm.

    Here's the thing; how fast do you think you're going down something like Jacobs Ladder, The Beast or the drop down into Roych Clough from Rushop Edge (which I love BTW!)? I would be in awe if you were doing 20mph and running out of gears down those drops.

    A fit person, with skinny tyres and a light hardtail may well run out of gears on a fast road ride, but really, is that the kind of rider you are?

    Yep, thought not.

    I've ridden extensively in the Peak, Wales, Lakes and the Alps and absolutley under no circumstances have I ever found myself undergeared. If it's that steep, then usually more speed can be gained just by letting go of the brakes. This is especially true in the Alps.

    So then the real question is actually is 32t front by 36t rear low enough for anything and everything?

    Well I think so and I weigh in a 100kg so I'm not really a racing snake, but it's sort of on the borderline for very long days out in the hills. I just did a 7 hour, 4000ft epit in the Welsh mountains last Saturday and yes, there were quite a few sections that I didn't have the gears for, but it wasn't a problem to get off and walk and I still rode maybe 90% of it.

    So yes, go for a 32t front and learn to let off the brakes a little more

  8. #8
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    Can't help with the weight for a large frame but my medium frame in anodised flavour complete with HS mounts, 12mm rear axle, 1.5" head tube and shock mounting bolts came in at a respectable 3190 grams.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by geetee1972
    Hi Lorni,

    Yep running 32t up front and a 11-36 out back and then before that I was on 11-34 out back. The switch to 10 speed allowed the 11-36 and that extra low gear does make a big difference.

    Now this is one of those endlessly debated topics and it seems I am in a relative minority in standing firm on a 32t up front giving you a more than big enough gear for anything in the UK or indeed in the Alps. The only other people I know who agree with me are the two other guys I ride with, both of whom are on the same gearing as me.

    To support my claim, and in true geek OCD fashion, I've worked out that 32t front by 11t rear gives you 20mph at a manageable 90 rpm.

    Here's the thing; how fast do you think you're going down something like Jacobs Ladder, The Beast or the drop down into Roych Clough from Rushop Edge (which I love BTW!)? I would be in awe if you were doing 20mph and running out of gears down those drops.

    A fit person, with skinny tyres and a light hardtail may well run out of gears on a fast road ride, but really, is that the kind of rider you are?

    Yep, thought not.

    I've ridden extensively in the Peak, Wales, Lakes and the Alps and absolutley under no circumstances have I ever found myself undergeared. If it's that steep, then usually more speed can be gained just by letting go of the brakes. This is especially true in the Alps.

    So then the real question is actually is 32t front by 36t rear low enough for anything and everything?

    Well I think so and I weigh in a 100kg so I'm not really a racing snake, but it's sort of on the borderline for very long days out in the hills. I just did a 7 hour, 4000ft epit in the Welsh mountains last Saturday and yes, there were quite a few sections that I didn't have the gears for, but it wasn't a problem to get off and walk and I still rode maybe 90% of it.

    So yes, go for a 32t front and learn to let off the brakes a little more
    Thankyou for your informative reply - it really was 'food for thought'. Whilst I am sure there are many that would argue against your theory, I happen to agree with you and have been contemplating the 1x10 setup since Shimano released the new hardware.

    You are certainly correct in that If I were to necessitate a ring larger than a 32T ring up front, whilst exceeding 20mph, I am really in the wrong job.

    By your reply, I take it you visit the Peak District often? I would love to ride up there and get away from trail centres. Are there any routes you would recommend? I used to do plenty of walking as a teenager around the Dark Peak area but am somewhat unfamiliar of the area by bike.

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    it depends entirely on where you ride and how strong you are.

    On the AFR i spend way too much time spinning the granny ring(22X34) to contemplate 1X10 as an all rounder solution although i'll probably give it a try to see how i get on as it'll also ditch a couple lb worth of hammerschmidt.

    On the AC I'm about to go back to a triple up front for endurance events as i'm spinning out with the 11X32. works fine most of the time while running the bigger wheels but the racing snake wheels need more gears.
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    Lorni - I am running a 32 on my AM 29er, works a treat, I have not at all run out of gears and wished for a 34....

    If you were to be looking at an AM frame, I would seriously look at an AM / AFR 29er like mine, you would fit it like a glove..... Am absolutely loving it, so adaptable to most types of riding, and thats with a Dorado on the front.....
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipper
    it depends entirely on where you ride and how strong you are.

    On the AFR i spend way too much time spinning the granny ring(22X34) to contemplate 1X10 as an all rounder solution although i'll probably give it a try to see how i get on as it'll also ditch a couple lb worth of hammerschmidt.

    On the AC I'm about to go back to a triple up front for endurance events as i'm spinning out with the 11X32. works fine most of the time while running the bigger wheels but the racing snake wheels need more gears.
    Indeed. I am not into endurance events but a few times per year, myself and Mrs Lornibear head out to some of the Welsh trail centres and spend a fair part of the day doing various trails and clocking up some miles - particularly in Afan where we often start with the Skyline.

    As mentioned before, I am trying to move away from trail centres and move out more into open country - hence my interest in the Peak District, and for that I believe that a 32T coupled with a 11-36 might well do the trick. Most of my local riding around East Anglia and Surrey doesn't involve my 24T at all and is done with a 34T up front on my FR.

    I am also considering a lightish AM build with perhaps an RP23 and Lyric coils, but retaining the ability to run a rear coil and totems up front for more gravity orientated riding. It's been a long time since I have ridden on an RP23 - are they suitable for my 105kg frame? and have they improved in the last four years? If so, what are the differences?

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    Are there any routes you would recommend? I used to do plenty of walking as a teenager around the Dark Peak area but am somewhat unfamiliar of the area by bike.
    Oh my word are you in for a treat!

    The dark peak has some of the best riding in the UK and there are a number of classic routes that you need to tick. In no particular order they are known as:

    The Classic Edale/Hayfield Figure of Eight
    The short and extended Ladybower Resevoir (Fernlee) Loop (can be done as two short rides or one long one)
    Cut Gate
    Doctors Gate
    Middle Moor, Rowarth, Mellow loop

    This is just four awesome rides, all of which can be up to around 30 miles long and around 90% off road. It's just an amazing place and like you I grew up riding mountain bikes in that whole area so I know it reasonably well.

    I am up every now and then but more than happy to arrange a special trip to build a ride around. There is a guy I was introdced to on the weekend whose a friend of my parents and also a nut job on mountain bikes so we're planning a ride in the next few months if you want to make a group ride?

    Outside of that there is a really great guy who I can introduce you to who knows the all the riding better than anyone else I know. He's based in Marple Bridge. Where abouts are you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Lorni - I am running a 32 on my AM 29er, works a treat, I have not at all run out of gears and wished for a 34....

    If you were to be looking at an AM frame, I would seriously look at an AM / AFR 29er like mine, you would fit it like a glove..... Am absolutely loving it, so adaptable to most types of riding, and thats with a Dorado on the front.....
    I'm well up for that but i'll be hanging onto the afr till suitable forks appear
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    I've just sold an RP23BV because compared to the (now tuned by Stendec) CCDB, it felt horridible!

    You should have a go on my AM since we are more or less the same weight and mine is now set up to weigh 29lbs with a CCDB and a RS Revelation 150mm fork.

    I was going to post up the final iteration of the bike in its transition. It's settled down now to be an absolute freakin rocket. 29lbs and that's with a coil spring! The CCDB is just amazing now; it pops when you want it to pop and is planted everywhere else.

    The BB is silly low but I've still not had many problems with pedal strike partly because the CCDB tune means the bike is sitting a little higher in its travel.

    HA is still 67 degrees, BB is just over 13", travel is set to 145mm. Did I mention the weight?

    The versatility is the best thing. Converting it back to a 33lb AM/Alps/mini DH machine is simply a case of putting the original shock shuttle back on, switching out a spring from the CCDB and adjusting the travel and plugging in a set of cut down Totems or Fox 36s.

    I am super pleased with the result of this transformation, not least because of the lowered weight and lowered stance.

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    I think mine is similar Geetee but with an extra 3.5lbs of weight! I just don't know where I would drop any more. Your revs are 350g lighter than my Devilles I guess and a pure 1x10 (With a full chainguide or chainguide light) is about 350g lighter than my Hammerschizzle so thats probably where the weight is. You running a dropper post? and what tyres? I have DH minion/High Roller on.

    I really needed the lower gears on my recent race in Italy, 1700m of climbing in 5 hrs with 4 DH special stages would have kicked the backside out of my legs and the HS also helped on the sudden pedally climbs in the middle of some stages.

    I think I might drop some lighter tyres on and lose a pound for UK use, I just don't think we have nasty enough terrain to rip up the tyres where I often ride.

    If you organise preaks ride I'd be up for it. I've been a little dissapointed when I've ridden there (and its only 1.5hrs away) I think because of my lack of local knowledge.

  17. #17
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    Perhaps a 'Peaks' meet is on the cards?

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    I used to run 32T up front with an 11-36 out back up until a couple of years ago when I started to ride more aggresivly, tried a 36T up front and immidietly preffered the change and although I have now settled on 34T up front I would never go back to 32T, I am much quicker when pedalling either up or down hill. I couldn't stand the way my legs would spin when using 32T on open descents. If you havn't done already do give 34T a try, if you don't like just change it back.

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    Hey brutal, thanks for the input. I am running a dual 24/34T set up on my FR at the moment and love the top end that the 34T provides, but am not too confident that I could manage the climbs, hence my interest in the 32T.
    I think Geetee's comments - 'Here's the thing; how fast do you think you're going down something like Jacobs Ladder, The Beast or the drop down into Roych Clough from Rushop Edge (which I love BTW!)? I would be in awe if you were doing 20mph and running out of gears down those drops' are well justified and very fitting.
    My plans for a 1.x 10 setup for a lighter weight frame is forming and taking shape. I now need to decide on a rear shock - I quite like the look of the Elka stage 5 and with so many fantastic rear shocks on the market now, it's going to be a tough decision.

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    I have no idea how fast I am going you know although I agree that on more technical descents it's a case of letting off the brakes more to increase speed rather then the need to pedal but on less technical descents I don't won't to limit my top speed by not being able to pedal as is the case for me on 32T.

    I would have thought if you are running a granny ring that it supports the idea of running 34T or 36T. The only thing I do miss now I have switched from 32T to 34T is the granny. I never used to use it when I had 32T so I got rid although, now I do miss it. Trails I've ridden recently are Grizedale, Whites Level, Glentress, Stainburn, Cannock Chase, Chicksands and some local DH stuff.

    You know I don't think there is a one size fits all solution to these kind of dilemas, it's all preferance in realtion to many different factors so just try things out and see what you prefer.

  21. #21
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    'You know I don't think there is a one size fits all solution to these kind of dilemas, it's all preferance in realtion to many different factors so just try things out and see what you prefer'. - You are quite right there my friend.
    I will start with the 32T and see how I go. At least it's not labour intensive changing a front chainring if it needs changing, although I am positive a 32T will be the one. Will try and hook up with Geetee and try his AM (of which he has very kindly offered).

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    let me know how things work out with the AM should you get to take it for a ride, I really really want one and would be keen to know what you think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brutaldeluxe09
    let me know how things work out with the AM should you get to take it for a ride, I really really want one and would be keen to know what you think.
    I will do indeed. Unfortunately I will not be placing my order until January time as I am leaving for deployment mid August and will not be back in the UK until late February. I will certainly post my thoughts on the AM - just need to tie it in with Geetee

  24. #24
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    I have heard that when ordering a new AM, you can specify a shock mounting kit that would fit the smaller shock length - would anybody be able to confirm this as I would like to run the CCDB from my FR.
    Would running the shorter shock have any impact on ride or travel settings? I am no suspension guru as you all know.

  25. #25
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    I have heard that when ordering a new AM, you can specify a shock mounting kit that would fit the smaller shock length - would anybody be able to confirm this as I would like to run the CCDB from my FR.
    Would running the shorter shock have any impact on ride or travel settings? I am no suspension guru as you all know.

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