Helius Am with Fox 180?

[AdrianoMTB]

Hi Mates!

How is business? i have a great dude between two bikes than i love to do enduro. The first one is a pivot, a really good bike with DW link and able to accept forks from 160mm to 200mm (boxxers, fox 40 etc...) in this case, it´s a very good bike because have a ligth frame and i know that dw link works perfectly to do rutes and some enduro-dh races... it haves a very good geometry being this 67,2 with 160mm fork and probably will give 66º with a 180mm fox talas 2001. i think it´s a good choice for do REALLY enduro

In the other side, Nicolai Helius AM. I´m the owner of a AFR (the sky blue in the afrs setup database) and I complete believe in Nicolai, perfect frames with multiple choice colours and too many possibilities of personalize including geometry changes and many more but... ok! I already have my perfect Nico, its my AFR (i will use finally to do Only DH, Probably the next change will be a fox 40 2011) but in this case, i don´t wan´t to spend much money in the frame therebefore my idea it´s to order this frame without extras (only base color and no more). But here its where i have a lot of questions for you guys...

I want to put a 180mm fox talas, i want to have a enduro bike around 31lbs, and i think that it´s not be able to put a 180mm talas in an helius am without choosing taylor made in the downtube of the frame (i think). this will probably increment the price too much. The helius Am gives 67,7mm with 160mm forks, i think its not enought, i saw in this forum days ago a helius am with 66º--> This is perfect (in my opinion) but it had taylor made (pricee )

it worth to do an effort and buy another Nico?? or it´s better to try with a new bike like this firebird?... thank you all!

Pd: I posted this here, because i´m a nicolai user and at first time, i prefer the Helius am because i know how is have and enjoy a nico!
Pd2: The bike down its perfect but in my case, i will do a light build
(Mavic 819+hope pro2+ HighRoller 2,35 tubuless)
Sram X9
Xt Cranks
Straitline stem 50mm
Sunline vone 711mm
joplin 4
Air Shock (Dhx5 air)

[geetee1972]

I think you can specify a custom tubeset, i.e. a heavier tubeset, for an upcharge that a lot less than the tailor made option. Not sure of the price in Euros, but in the UK it's £300 for full custom and £100 for specifying your own tubes.
If you want to also drop the BB a little and rake out the headangle, then ask for a 1.5" headtube and fit a Cane Creek reducer headset that also alters geometry. It will still add to the overall price but it will still be less than a full custom option.

[thepimpmessiah]

My stock AM has an Acros 1.5 headset which is rather bulky. As it stands the head angle is 65 deg and seat angle is 71deg. I would like to lower the bottom bracket by 10-20mm and steepen up the seat angle by a few degrees at which point I think it would be perfect. The cane creek headset option my allow me to do this if I change my forks to 1-1/8".



Currently sitting at about 32-33lbs.

Sorry - poor photo makes the geometry look steeper than it is - if you see it on a flat surface it looks as slack as it is - I've had to slide the seat right forward on the post to get decent climbing performance - it's a brilliant bike but there are always little improvements that can be made

Also bouncing a coil shock at the moment.

[Karve]

head angle is 65 deg? Is that custom as that is DH slack?

[thepimpmessiah]

head angle is 65 deg? Is that custom as that is DH slack?

Stock AM but with 1.5"... the seat angle should be 73 and the steerer 67... both of these are slacked out by 2 deg I guess because I'm running 160mm 36 forks and a tall headset opposed to the 140mm the frame has in the brochure. Not sure if the 1.5 headtube also has some bearing on that?

As I said... I would like to lower the bottom bracket a little and steepen the seat angle whilst keeping the slack head angle as it's brilliant

When i bought the Fox forks off Derik I got a crown with 1-1/8 steerer as well... but a friend's need was greater that mine and I sold it

Will I bother to make these changes? probably not as I love it as it is.

[geetee1972]

My AM also measures up as 65degree headangle with a Reset Racing headset and 160mm forks. The headset has a tall stack height; the lower cup probably adds about 11mm more than say a King one might.

[mikael_nr1]

I seriously doubt your stock AMs are having 65 degree headangle, that's as already mentioned dh slack. The AM geometry table is measured with a 565 a2c (160mm). My AM has 67 degree someting, depends on which front/rear tires one is using also.

[thepimpmessiah]

Last years AM geometry table was done with a 545mm fork refering measurement... which is a 140mm travel fork... we are both running 160mm forks and tall headsets therefore slacked out the geometry from 67 deg to 65 deg AS MEASURED

Also explains why my bottom bracket is higher than desired and my seat angle slacker than desired. Maybe I need a 2011

EDIT - oops, 545mm fork is indeed a 160mm fork so this is not the problem.

[Karve]

I seriously doubt your stock AMs are having 65 degree headangle, that's as already mentioned dh slack. The AM geometry table is measured with a 565 a2c (160mm). My AM has 67 degree someting, depends on which front/rear tires one is using also.

Id agree 65 is as slack as an ION. An AFR is 66.8 - an AM with 65 would steer like a barge. With my FR I stuck on a Chris king which is quite tall and a totem. That only slacked it out 1/2 a degree in relation to the stated figures which were taken with a 160 fork..

67 is considered slack AM
66 is freeride
65 DH
64 slack DH
63 insane slackness Mondrakers and the new turner

Not disputing your measurements - just seems a bit weird.

[geetee1972]

Not sure what's going on here but the 545mm is the quoted A2C height for the Rock Shox Lyric at 160mm, which is the fork I have on my bike.

However, is the referring measurement is 545mm and that does not include the effect of the tyre and the headset, then you can easily add another 50mm or abour 2" to the overall height, which would equate to almost 2 degrees and take the measured angle down to 65 degrees.

To contrast this, my Ion measured 63 degrees when running a Boxxer World Cup, Chris King HS and 2.5" High Roller, although the stated measurement is 65 degrees.

This is the difference/problem between/with stated and measured angles and that's before you get into whether the measurements are sagged or unsagged.

For reference I am using the angle finder/clinometer application on my iPhone. Pimp what are you using for your measurements?

[Karve]

The bottom cup of the headset will deffo have some impact. How would the tyre affect it unless you are running a massive one on the front and a tiny one on the back?

[geetee1972]

Karve - it's a good point; you got me there.

I can' explain where the discrepancies are coming from; perhaps an inaccuracies in the clinometer app? It makes sense though as I have seen the Ion HA measured as 63 degrees as well, in Dirt when they did a feature on headangle/geometry a while back. There was a photo of their Ion test bike with an angle finder held against the headtube/stanchion showing 63degrees. So if my clinometers was showing the same angle, it would suggest that the reading is right, plus if I read the same as Pimp, then is it likely that we’re both showing the same inaccurate reading?

I know it’s odd though. Any ideas of your own?

[mikael_nr1]

[QUOTE=geetee1972]Not sure what's going on here but the 545mm is the quoted A2C height for the Rock Shox Lyric at 160mm, which is the fork I have on my bike.
/QUOTE]

Oh yes, 545mm is what I meant, I too have a RS Lyrik.

[BeezKneez]

the fork reference height in the geo chart is 545mm, which is the length of a fox 36 160mm or a lyrik 160mm fork.
in the drawings they don't tell it, but they use 15mm as stack height for the lower headset cup.
With that setup you are supposed to have a 67.7 headtube angle.
as a good rule of thumb you can say that 2cm additional fork height will slacken your headtube by one degree.

I can't see where the needed 4cm of difference to the specs are supposed to come from.

[geetee1972]

Maybe that is a sagged figure? 25% sag is exactly 40mm on a 160mm fork which seems like too much of a coincidence not to be the reason?

[thepimpmessiah]

But why would you measure with sag at the front but not at the back?

I am running a slightly larger front tyre but it's probably only adding 10mm to the front, and my Fox 36 measure up at 550mm axle to crown.

I am measuring using an Android inclinometer ap and I zero'd it on the floor before taking the angles

[geetee1972]

No idea Pimp; all I know is I get more or less the same reading as you.

[rdhfreethought]

Zero it with a level, not the floor. That may help. I bet it is 4-5 different inaccuracies that add up to an extra degree or so.

Doesn't matter though, ride it if it feels good, steepen it (or slack it) if it doesn't