Hammerschmidt on Helius AC
As described in another thread, I may be able to get an AC frame at a reasonable price.
I've been interested in the features of the Trutativ Hammerschmidt (which is what originally drew my attention to Nicolai). I remember reading that Nicolai will mount the ISCG adaptor on the AC for free. But if you look at the complete bikes section of their website, they provide no pricing option for Hammerschmidt (HS) on the AC.
I've also fired this question to Nicolai themselves, but no answer yet. I also thought I'd ask here for comments. I noticed someone in the AC setup thread had an HS.
Is the HS not really suited to the AC? I think the AC suits better the riding I will do 90-95% of the time, but I like the sound of the HS's features, so the AM is the other option for me. (I don't ride particularly fast - 30kmh on flats max, and I will never charge downhill.)
I have an HS on my Helius AFR. I ordered my AC with ISCG tabs for the HS but have decided against using it on the AC on the grounds of weight. I am going 1x10 on that and I may also ditch on the AFR in time. It is a nice piece of kit but I wonder if it came along at the wrong time with more people using 1x and 2x10.
I haven't tried any of these yet (waiting for the precipitation to finally stop after 6-7 weeks here), so I'm just reading so far, but that's an interesting comment. Most HS user comments I've read are pretty positive.
Originally Posted by NICK-O-LAI
So forgive my newbie question, but what is it about 1x10 and 2x10 that makes the HS not so appealing? For me, the main feature I liked the sound of was the quick gear changes. It seemed cool to me to not have to pre-plan a change. I can see the others have the other HS benefit of less chain hassles, but is there something else to it?
I run the HS on my afr also and while I might try it on my ac it's highly unlikely to stay, again due to it's weight. It is a great bit of kit though. The weight is also low and central on the frame so not convinced the weight makes much difference to the ride. There's another aspect I believe that gets overlooked and that's the chain line that hs gives. The chain sits bang in the middle of the main chainstay pivot which is the best place for efficient pedalling. So the weight may be offset somewhat.
Your frame needs to be specced as hs iscg from the factory. It's not really retro fittable as far as I know.
Is it only the weight then that is the main issue?
Is that because you have multiple bikes and this one is dedicated to trails and so you want it light to distinguish from a more DH/FR bike?
I ask because this will be my one (for now!) MTB and I'm seeing it more leaning towards an AM bike than the cross-country model.
I saw an estimate of 400g extra weight with the HS. Wonder if I could save that somewhere else?
IŽve had Hammerschmidt AM in my AC now almost one year. My AC-frame is one of those oldest AC`s and I ordered it with ISCG-tabs, if remember right, with no added fee. There`re no retrofit option.
After half of year usage of traditional 2x9, ordered H-schmidt AM set with 170mm cranks, bottom bracket and x9-shifter from Germany - they are not available here in any LBS. Installation took 30 mins. DidnŽt even installed x9-shifter, because I noticed that I can use my grip shifter with HS without problems. No issues with chainlines etc.
After that IŽve driven ~500 hours with HS in all type of conditions, from wet mud to minus 25C- degrees cold, from dry to snow ... everything what Finnish climate can offer. Have opened HS few times, only for checking are there any s*it inside ... still clean as new one.
Have tested both chainrings, 22 and 24, now using 24 with normal 12-32 or -34 cassette. Changed 170mm cranks to 175mm few months ago too, suits me better.
No any thoughts to change HS for something else. Weight is probably the only negative side, but that`s not an issue for me. Like the realibility (so far...), added clearance and superfast shifting. Don`t even mention the traction when using overdrive anymore, or the sound - right one really thin oil inside the planetary gears made it really smooth.
IŽll say that HS is worth of trying.
I realy like my HS. What I find is that I rarely use the overdrive. Mostly because of where and how I ride rather than the extra drag; which does exist but is only noticeable if your trying to grunt up something. I'm a spinner so being in the granny amost all the time is fine with me - there is so much duplication on an ordinary set up that you find yourself down in the small sprockets at the back - which is actually good as there is less of a step between them than the bigger sprockets normaly used with the middle ring. If your a big ring power grunter the HS may not suit (but thats a dumb way to ride IMHO .
Chain line is perfect so you have access to all the gears anyway, makes sense to use them all, and only put the "Hammer Down" for the descents... and if you get stopped or stalled a flick of the Hammer and your in the best gear to get away... ace.
About the weight - figure in a proper chain guide that will never drop the chain, add that weight to the normal set up, and a nice strong bash ring.
Another plus is the mahoosive ground clearnace; ace for rock gardens and riding over logs.
Mine was playing up recently but I had damaged the outer cable (probably a flying rock). New cables and it's sweet as a nut again. I use Manitou M-prep grease as it's very light. I've stripped it twice in a year and both times it was super clean inside.
I wouldn't use it on super light bike where I would want a big ring - but an AM or an AC I think they are brilliant. I'd love another on a big hardtail.
I keep coming back to the HS, and always have an eye out for any new updates making it lighter. Essentially I think its a great product.
I did the maths when they first came out and even when running a chain guide on a 2x9 (I don't normally for general trail use anyhow) I still wasn't happy with the weight penalty.
If I'm not happy with the weight on paper imagine how I would feel when killing myself up a long hill.
The HS is best suited to a hard hitting Alpine bike like an AFR, where ground clearance and chain retention is essential.
I feel it will sit in the market as it is for some years and then probably die off.
To help others who might come across this thread, I'll paraphrase what Nicolai have sent to me in relation to the question of the HS on Helius AC.
HS is suitable for the AC frame
It's maybe a bit heavy for the AC, but the comfort (clearance) is good
HS is suited best to mid-high regions, because going downhill in the Alps you'd need more gears
For going uphill, he considers the HS perfect
As I'm a bit of a chicken, I'm not too worried about pedalling down the Alps (and they're not nearby), so I think the pros outweigh the cons and I'll probably cross my fingers and give the HS a shot.
I think the weight penalty is small compared to a 1x10 even.
Bashing@175g or so
Rear cassette at near 300g 11-36 to have a top and lowish bottom
So roughly 1550g
A am HS is 1550 with bb and shifter but you can run a short ratio rear cassette and still have a wider spread of gears due to granny, e.g. Dura ace or similar road cassette at 160g so an all up wight of 1710g roughly.
If you add in a double ring front and front mech thats another 200g to add, the same then! Although you could also then run a short ratio cassette....
Don't tell me you guys are worried about 200g on a 27 28lb bike let alone an AM
Carry 200ml less water in your camel back and enjoy instant shifting, bombproof design, no chainslap, massive clearance, very quick ratio changes...
Love mine, building a 27lb Evil Sovereign with one on I think rather than go 1x10
If you use a comparably tough crank set the difference is smaller, xtr is about 750 with BB isn't it.
Let the fireworks begin :-)
I think its more perception than reality
I am the original poster and on the weekend I tried out an AC and a Hammerschmidt. Admittedly on two separate bikes.
And I liked them both, and expect I will make a purchase of said products. Although I was sad to see that the Nicolai production plan blew out a bit in yesterday's update and I won't be getting it soon.
Hammerschizzle all the way for me now :-) totally converted on my Helius AM....