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  1. #1
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    First Helius AM Pictures

    Hey Guys,

    the first pictures of the Helius AM are coming in. I guess after the weekend well see some more.






  2. #2
    steep fast and loose :)
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    scheet - well done my man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    simon.

  3. #3
    steep fast and loose :)
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    why do they persist with down tube cable routing tho ?
    why not just go top tube all the way ? i k ow it's optional custome routing of course,

    simon.

  4. #4
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    Nice. adjustable travel as well I see. Maybe an air shock would have been the way to go as opposed to the ccdb. To make use of the travel adjust I'll be on a spring swapping frenzy! On saying that i can't see me using anything other than full travel. The FR pedals great at 6.6" travel and can't see the AM being any different.

  5. #5
    lazy piston
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    Thanks for the pics Testmaen! I've been quite anxious to see them since I first heard about that new frame.

    I think I like it. I'm glad Nicolai went with adjustable travel on this frame. I was hoping for adjustable front shock mount though, but I guess that was too much to ask.

    I like the minimalistic look of the headtube gussets, front shock mount and top tube / seat tube braces. And I'd love to see the frame in ano black of course. And to know the real weight in size L.

  6. #6
    "Its All Good"
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    Sweet as a nut!

    Thanks for posting these up, great to see some pictures.... Its all good....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  7. #7
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    That is such a beautiful frame ...

    Downtube routing? ... if we order a frame with crud catcher mounts, then i presume all cable will naturally go top tube???

    Adjustable rear travel is good ... I presume the rear shock mounts will fit an FR as well??? ...

  8. #8
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith
    ... I'm glad Nicolai went with adjustable travel on this frame. I was hoping for adjustable front shock mount though, but I guess that was too much to ask ...
    be interesting to know if the front shock mount can be 'reversed'/'switched around'?

  9. #9
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    "then i presume all cable will naturally go top tube"

    nope. mine came with CC mounts and DT cable routing. You'd need to specify what you want

  10. #10
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    The cable routing with CC mounts is a little messy as the cable runs the same route as the mounts ! Needing the cable routing to be re-routed round the CC and bolts...

    A great bike but a small amount of extra care needed with the cable runs.
    Nicolai Bikes in the South of England head to..
    http://www.head-for-the-hills.co.uk

  11. #11
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    It is a bit odd. I've never fitted a CC because of it. My next frame will also have CC mounts but will come with TT cable routing.

  12. #12
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    With a CC fitted it does not look odd as its hard to see the routing but now the Summer has arrived ! Well for the last week or so I have removed the CC and with the bolts back in place the outer cable does look a little odd...
    Nicolai Bikes in the South of England head to..
    http://www.head-for-the-hills.co.uk

  13. #13
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    my crud catcher comes and goes ... i just hate it when they splatter right when you take a breadth ...
    Last edited by chinaman; 05-27-2008 at 09:50 AM.

  14. #14
    "Its All Good"
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    Crud Catchers..... Just love the mud............................ Says me whom has forgotten what mud is...... Well will find out again in a few months in NZ for the winter.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  15. #15
    a tight kick sound
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    Any more info on the weight and geo of this bad boy?
    Looks pretty friggin sweet!

  16. #16
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    FYI: One of first customer AMs. Weight is 15,4kg (~34lbs) with heavy tires.


  17. #17
    a tight kick sound
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    Holy Jeeeeeesus!
    That is niiiice

  18. #18
    local trails rider
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    What size is that one?
    Got any geometry numbers?
    Is it my eyes or just wishful thinking that Nicolai have put the top tube a little lower on this one?

    That frame just might push me over the edge and start me saving money for a Nicolai.

    Ano Bronze maybe? Or Antique Copper?

  19. #19
    lazy piston
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    FYI: One of first customer AMs. Weight is 15,4kg (~34lbs) with heavy tires.
    Cool, now we're talking

    Can't say I'm impressed with the weight, but ok. Overall the frame looks quite nice, and I second perttime's comment on the top tube - it indeed looks somewhat lower than usual.

    I'm also wondering what size it is. Have you had a chance to weigh it?
    Shock dimensions? 200 x 57? Compatibility with coil shocks?

    BTW what's the deal with the headset?

  20. #20
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    "top tube a little lower on this one?"

    i hope not otherwise the medium i've got on order will be too small!

    I'm a bit concerned about the seat and chainstays as well. they're much skinnier than the FR and the linkage has moved forward on the TT making the seatstays longer. I really like the stiffness of the FR rear.

  21. #21
    local trails rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith
    Can't say I'm impressed with the weight?
    I do not recognize all the components, but I think I could save some weight just by going for different tyres and pedals. Looks like a sturdy Marzocchi in front too.

  22. #22
    "Its All Good"
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    Just been on the blower with Falco at Nicolai. Was requesting some parts..

    I asked if we could have some details made on the Helius AM. he said in 2 weeks or so time, all details will be revealed, the studio shots are being taken for the website to list the frame, some minor details are being finalized with cable guides etc..... So we cant get anymore info than that...

    dipper - I dont think we can be comparing the AM to the FR at all. The main idea behind the AM was as an all mountain frame so to speak, taking no more than a 160mm fork, where by the FR has stepped up a notch.....

    I doubt the boys would have made a frame that wasnt as stiff in the rear, of which is a huge plus of Nicolai frames....

    So all in all, made an effort to get info, but respect what Falco and Nicolai have said, we must wait patiently.......

    But yes, the pictured Helius AM in Ano black, am sure a heap of weight could be trimmed off of that bike. Would like to see it in the zone of 30lbs myself......
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  23. #23
    'All over it!'
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    I like the look of that bike very much... but would it start me saving my pennies? Possibly. I too like the stiff rear end of the FR, this being catered for by the 12mm axle and the size of the chainstays.
    However, as Whafe says, it would be nice to see this machine built up with some light but sturdy components, such as a float front fork, some xtr bling and a nice AM wheelset such as the 819s. Should come in at about 30lb or perhaps a little under.

    A lovely bike and will be interesting to know more in a few weeks time.

  24. #24
    steep fast and loose :)
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    I'm with Dipper

    Aye - It does look aneorexic in comparison to the FR, but at 34lbs built, I'd probably be tempted to stick with the FR for the extra rigidity.
    Having rode the FR earlier this week, it is noticeably stiffer and better capable than the 6 Pack in the rocks and drops, all I need is a 450# spring to get my sag / preload and compression settings dialled right in. Dipper's 600# heft causes me no end of woe
    It'll be good to see and ride the AM once Dipper get's it on his Demo fleet, especially as we're both running CCDB's, it'll be a fair comparison.
    So far though, the 6 Pack is still revelationary. Climbs reasonably well, descends with incredible control and damping. The FR is just too over-sprung to compete, imo.

    Simon

  25. #25
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    Thats not my bike, I should have add that, so I have no information about the details (frame weight, shock length, possible custom geo), but I try to find out.

  26. #26
    "Its All Good"
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    Thinking more re my conversation with Falco, the bikes in the pictures still need finishing, see the attached have highlighted the cable routing etc, nothing finalized yet.

    Look back over the original pics and check the cable guides.... Am interested to see how the finished model will turn out...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  27. #27
    steep fast and loose :)
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    lornibear - why run 819's on a 167mm frameset tho ?
    i tried it on the 6 Pack and it spoils the ride, especially on rocky outcropped steeps. even running a strong tyre like the UST Nokian NBX 2.3 caused flex and deflection on the trail (2008 Van 36 RC2 fork) and it reduced the capability of the frame.

  28. #28
    'All over it!'
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    lornibear - why run 819's on a 167mm frameset tho ?
    i tried it on the 6 Pack and it spoils the ride, especially on rocky outcropped steeps. even running a strong tyre like the UST Nokian NBX 2.3 caused flex and deflection on the trail (2008 Van 36 RC2 fork) and it reduced the capability of the frame.
    The_Lecht_Rocks - Agreed, I am running 819s on my FR at the moment until I get my 823 wheelset built up. I have had no real problems with them when using my rig in AM duties. Now you mention it, I don't notice any real flex when hitting the harder stuff, this may have something to do with the reinforced michelin mountain xtreme tyres I am using.
    I do however feel a little flex under strong cornering, especially at my weight, hence the 823's. I suppose it all depends what you use your bike for. I will have the 819s for all day trail and AM duties and the 823 for the harder stuff and bike park playing.
    I agree with what you are saying and will hopefully be able to comment more when my new wheelset is built and give an accurate comparrison.

  29. #29
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    According to the owner of the black Helius AM is size "L", frame weighs ~3,5kg with shock, headset and seatclamp. So bare frame weight should be around 3,1kg.

  30. #30
    lazy piston
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    According to the owner of the black Helius AM is size "L", frame weighs ~3,5kg with shock, headset and seatclamp. So bare frame weight should be around 3,1kg.
    Thanks for the info Testmaen!
    So we're looking here at about 300-gram difference against my '07 FR (which is also anodized). Good to know.

  31. #31
    steep fast and loose :)
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    823's are a different ballgame lorni - the michelins however are a better choice for AM duties on 819's, agreed,
    we do live in the North Scottish Highlands of course , hence the steep rocky terrain issues,

    simon.

  32. #32
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    I'm not sure, but it seems to be a Nicolai Headset on the black one, which is still weighting 500g just for the headset! So the frame might be really lighter that what we think ! To be confirmed with a bare frame !
    Never enough singletracks !

  33. #33
    "Its All Good"
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    I agree, am sure the AM would have to be more than 300 grams lighter than the FR frame.... Heavens to morgatroid, it best be!
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  34. #34
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    Besides, it must be my next bike, with a lyrik !
    What's the rear travel ?
    130 to 160 ?
    Never enough singletracks !

  35. #35
    lazy piston
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    No guys, doesn't look like a Fett Set to me. The Fett Set has a more "square" profile, look here:

    And I was actually wondering why the upper cup is red and the lower is silver

    Also, I was comparing the weight with my FR which is '07, and we all know that the '08 is beefier and heavier, so the difference between the '08 FR and the '08 AM indeed will be greater.

  36. #36
    steep fast and loose :)
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    mmmmmmmmm.......interesting dilema.
    dipper - is the FR that's available to order now as per yours or different ?

    simon.

  37. #37
    local trails rider
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    Nicolai say...

    """
    Geometrie und Federweg entsprechen dem FR. Statt dessen 4,4 Kilo bringt das AM aber dank leichterer Rohre und Frsteile nur 3,5 kg incl. Dmpfer auf die Wage. Der Rahmenpreis ist der gleiche, wie der des FR. Serienmig schluckt beim AM ein RS Monarch 4.2 die Ste. Das AM verkraftet vorn Gabeln vom Maximalformat einer RS Lyric oder Wotan.
    """
    http://nicolai.dbap.de/customGates/s...newsletter.php

    I think it says:
    Similar geometry and travel as FR. Lighter tubes and CNC parts bring the weight from FR's 4.4 kg to 3.5 kg, Shock included. Same price as FR. Lyric and Wotan are the biggest forks you should put on it.

  38. #38
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    The headset could be another good example of German engineering ...


    http://www.reset-racing.de/

  39. #39
    "Its All Good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    The headset could be another good example of German engineering
    Along with those pedal (flats) on the same link, whoa, sex on toast.... 4 Hundy Euro for the Ti spindle version.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  40. #40
    Farva's #1
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    It's well worth it to add the extra weight with the Minions.

  41. #41
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by samwell
    ... What's the rear travel ?
    130 to 160 ? ...
    I think it is 115-160mm.

  42. #42
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    I made a first weight calculation with Excel and it evenually got sub14kg. A whole 25grams. Most propably it won't be sub14kg outside of my bits-and-bytes-machine, but at least for now. I hope the weights are relatively correct, I took them from various sources, such as Weight-Weenies, custom-bikes with weight-lists, weights from bike-magazine-tests etc.

    13.975 grams = 30.8 lbs

    Last edited by Testmaen; 06-07-2008 at 05:01 PM.

  43. #43
    steep fast and loose :)
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    testmaen - can you pm me that excel spreadsheet ?

  44. #44
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    What do you guys think are the main "rivals" for the Helius AM ?

    Lately I surfed the All-Mountain-Forum for quite a while and found some bikes, which IMO could be some contenders. Also a good orientation in terms of specing the bike.

    - Santa Cruz Nomad

    - Intense 6.6

    - new Trek Remedy
    Looks quite good. Top model is advertised with 13kg (propably in 17.5" or 18.5", but still). It will be interesting to see/read, how that rear-integrated-piot is holding up over a longer period of time.

    - Rocky Mountain Slayer
    This one comes immediately to my mind, because of a very light build of"Radical_53". I know his bike from a German bike forum. It weighs 27.5lbs or 12.5kg. I shows how light you can build a 6"travel bike with enough determination. And money. Btw: Brakes (http://www.trickstuff.de/index.php?p=f3de0 and the carbon cranks (http://www.thm-carbones.de/english/Produkte/Carbonkurbel_Clavicula/Carbonkurbel_Clavicula_MTB.php)are made in Germany.





    - Intense 6.6
    I dont know nothing about this bike, apart from having a VPP like most Intense'.

    - new Santa Cruz Blur LT
    Saw the build of "krolik" and liked it immediately.


    - Scott Ransom
    Like the Nomad, the Ransom is also around for quite a while now. Still an interesting concept with the carbon (and also aluminium) chassis and the different travel options. fyi: Have you seen the new Genius ? Looks hoooooot! New scott genius

    - Turner RFX
    - Ellsworth Moment
    - Ventana El Terremoto 6.0
    Like the Intense, I dont know much about these bikes, except they all look somewhat similar due to their suspension design.


    Then some bikes, I personally would put somewehere between a Helius CC and AM:

    - Specialized Enduro
    Seems to be quite popular, don't know because of its concept or b/c it's a Speci and so quite available ?! A German bike mag complained after a long-term-test about poor pivot-bearings. Maybe the wrong place to save weight ...

    - Intense 5.5
    I saw on their website, that there are actually 2 versions. The FRO ("Enduro Race Only"; 6lbs) and the EVP ("Enduro Trail"; 6.5lbs), both with 5.5" of travel.




    So, what are your experiences with e.g. overall build quality, suspension design, etc ?

  45. #45
    steep fast and loose :)
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    interesting - the santa cuz is almost ano bronze like the Helius and the RFX !!!!!
    looks nice with the silver TALAS

  46. #46
    Drink...sleep
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    There's no rival to a Nicolai, Testmaen, and you know it.

  47. #47
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    Well, after looking for all the links, inserting the pictures, using an online-calculator for the metric vs. imperial system for the weights and travel, checking wikipedia what actually is the opposite of the metric system (-> imperial system), loosing the whole post due to $&"$% IT-gremlin somewhere between my computer and the next server and happily redoing all that without getting a stroke, I was hoping for a "longer statement".

  48. #48
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testmaen
    - Ventana El Terremoto 6.0
    Here you go

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cmadrigal/2206913323/" title="Ventana El Terremoto by cmadrigal, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2204/2206913323_464e95e7aa_b.jpg" width="1024" height="729" alt="Ventana El Terremoto" /></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/cmadrigal/2467369510/" title="The Moto refreshing on the river by cmadrigal, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2409/2467369510_e7617c897d_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="The Moto refreshing on the river" /></a>

  49. #49
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    BINGO- we have a winner!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boozzz
    There's no rival to a Nicolai, Testmaen, and you know it.
    Great answer Boozzz and quite truthful to boot.( sorry Crisillo ) But huh not for nothing that Rocky Mountain is "P-I-M-P sick cranks....CF....

  50. #50
    Black Lion
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    Man oh man that AM is so money.
    I blew my shot to get a Nicolai FR a couple months ago. (road bike purchase) Maybe it was a blessing in disguise.

    Whats the word Fred?
    Voltron

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