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  1. #1
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    disappointed in Nicolai

    Update: problems solved thanks to Kalle!

    Hi,

    last summer I got my new Helius AM frame in titan ano. Then I saw that there were two things wrong with it. First the rear end was wrong, I ordered black ano seatstays and titan ano chainstays, but got it just swapped. Second was the color of the titan ano, it's far too dark, it doesn't even look like the titan frames I saw on internet.

    I know Nicolai has some conditions about the risks of anodising, like differences because of welding and different types of aluminium, but I think that's nice, that's Nicolai. However I can't find something in it about a total wrong color. http://whyexfiles.dbap.de/Public/NIC..._anodizing.pdf

    Now Nicolai says they don't want to do anything with the frame, and even not with the rear end. And if I would like to have a rear end in the colors I want, the risk of difference in color with the mainframe (almost 100%) is going to be for me.

    Now I have a frame which was quite expensive, but I'm very disappointed in the color and in Nicolai. We have several Nicolai frames and we've always been very satisfied with them, but know I'm very dissapointed. What do I have to do with this?

    here are some pics of my frame:



    and some pics to compare:

    Last edited by Dutchdriver; 01-29-2011 at 03:40 AM.

  2. #2
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    wow - that is different. what size is yours ?

  3. #3
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    Where did you get the frame from and did you pay for it before seeing the finish?

    Also what are those white labels / Stickers ?

    I thought Titan ano was now 'unavailable'.

  4. #4
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    As with a lot of things there are always two sides to a story, taken at face value (and I'm not suggesting there is a reason not to)

    They ****ed up on the rear triangle, they wont (are unable) to commit to getting it rectified to match the front (regardless of the fact your not keen on the colour) so should step up and do the correct thing and offer a new frame

    The colour of the ano is subjective, backgrounds and lighting in the two shots are completely different, the lower picture could have been achieved with optimum lighting conditions

    Your post does read like the crib notes of actual events though, Mr Nicolais direct email is floating round this forum somewhere, direct communication may have the potential to better get this sorted for you

    Edit: have you been trying to get this sorted since last summer?

  5. #5
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    dutch - your frame basically looks like ano black !!

  6. #6
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    @TLR: size is taylor made

    @rpm100: those are labels, for pictures because of the wrong colors

    @wpuk: I've post some other pictues, when you look at the black rear end you can see it much darker. My dealer has tried since last summer to get this sorted, 3 weeks ago I had to bring back the frame and they shipped it to Nicolai and this was their answer. So there has been direct contact with Nicolai, the frame has even been sent back.

  7. #7
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    @ TLR: that's just the same as I (we) thought

  8. #8
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    quite ridiculous realy - ano black is a no cost option....

    how much did you pay for the ano titan ?

  9. #9
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    did you ever see another ti ano colour frame in the flesh?

    maybe yours is not as far as off as you think?

  10. #10
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    Is the AC and AM below yours really titan ano ? Because the AM frame looks more like bronze to me.

    I don't know if you had the chance to see titan ano prior to your order, because as we all know pics in the internet are often "idealized" and/or shot with different lighting/cameras etc.

    Especially bronze ano is very "light dependent", as I've seen many times for myself. Rather dark lighting or not so sunny day and it has a nice dark colour to it, shot with camera flash as I did e.g. at an Nicolai open-house a few years ago, I was quite suprised how bright it turned out.

  11. #11
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    seriously testy - dutch has been stitched up.

    his frame looks ano black ????????????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ????????????????

  12. #12
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    @BeezKneez: I've seen a ti ano before yes

    @Testmaen: the frames below are really titan ano. I know pictures are always different from "the real look" , but I've seen several pics and also with black decals of black rear ends, and the difference between black and ano was very big.

    We've got 5 Nicolai frames here, also one in bronze ano, and the colors of all the frames are ok. Even if the color would be ok, the rear end is wrong. And when the rear end will be made ok, you will see a lot of difference with the mainframe.

    I really like Nicolai's products and I still do, all our bikes are fine, but this frame just ain't good. Like TLR says, it almost looks black.

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    I mean, if the chain/seatstays are wrong, there is no question about it. They were ordererd differently and should be changed.

    The colour I don't know... It sure $ucks, no question about it.

    How long is the communication on with Nicolai? I've seen pics of your bike for quite some time.

    Over the years I've known Nicolai as a fair partner to deal with, also on the German support forum. Make use of the advice above and contact Kalle Nicolai directly, there should be a solution.

  14. #14
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    Am trying to look at this subjectively, of which I agree with some of your points for sure, it is disappointing. Let us if we can work through the facts to get some resolution..

    1 - The rear end chainstays are ano black, of which you ordered ti ano... Nicolai made the seatstays ti ano instead of black....

    Dutch - Have Nicolai agreed that an error was made on the rear end colours?

    2 - The ti ano main frame is different to other ti ano finishes you have seen.

    Taking the rear chainstay muck ups, the front ti ano is for sure different to the other ti ano frame you have posted.... There is for sure differences in ano frame colour with differing light situations...

    Have you contacted Karl directly on this, whilst discussing the 2 issues outside of one another...

    I fully understand your frustration.

    TLR - to say that Dutch has been stitched up is being a blue rinse brigade nanna... The incorrect rear black ano chainstay is black, far different to the main frame you are saying is black!
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  15. #15
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    Previous thread where Karl got involved directly

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...ai#post6567686

    At the very least getting directly in touch with him directly will give your closure one way or another

    Things are not always as they seem (as in the case of the dealer support in the linked thread) , when/if you get communications with him, go at it from the angle that this is the first he is aware of it and try not to let emotion rule any communication

    Goodluck anyhows

  16. #16
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    unfortunately, Kalle does not frequent this forum very often and his input [and nicolai's] is VERY THIN on the ground compared to other boutique brands across MTBR.

    it's disappointing as the product is lush but the quality control and ordering process is a bit "eclectic".........

  17. #17
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    Plenty of anarchy in these forums, of all the places i frequent (within mtbr and outside) this forum is the most sane bar the odd numpety

    There are a few boutique manufactures that need to learn when to stfu in these forums instead of whipping up their possy of zealots to chastise punters with genuine concerns

  18. #18
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    I'm championing Dutch's case, as I believe he has a genuine concern WPUK...........!

  19. #19
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    dutch - i suggest you email Kalle direct and report back the results of this correspondence....

    i suspect you'll get a result............................

  20. #20
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    TLR - No one is not diluting Dutch's case, it is a concern to us all. But these things need to be dealt with in the right way..

    As I see it, and tell me if I have it wrong, there are 2 separate issues here. The issues with the rear colours of the bike, then the lack of clarity on the front tri being ti ano, or ti ano the same as other frames...

    TLR, dude, you love nothing more than whipping up a storm in the proverbial teacup... There are as many boutique brands across MTBR where by they are even thinner..

    Factually I have had considerable discussion with Karl, Nicolai on participation on MTBR... I think it works well as it is, of course I would like more, thats human nature.... TLR, are you wanting participation at the level of DT does on the Turner forum?

    wpuk words it the best above..
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  21. #21
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    I'm championing Dutch's case, as I believe he has a genuine concern WPUK...........!
    Never denied he had any genuine concerns, encouraging him with drama queen remarks isnt exactly helping the bloke out

    Edited: to add quotes

  22. #22
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    yeah - DT [turnerbikes] contributes impeccably on the Turner board....

    that level of input counts for a massive level of support.

    if we had more nicolai factory support here, a lot of issues surrounding incorrect frame spec / order details / etc may get ironed out before delivery "impact"...

  23. #23
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    Ive had direct dealings with Turner bikes customer service and whilst they seem to have all their **** in one sock states side, they are relative partners to the cowboys at Silverfish (UK distrubutors) when it comes to anything on the other side of the pond

  24. #24
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    @whafe - you're a "special case" however, and a bit of a nicolai fanboi.
    you have direct comms into the factory because your a multiple purchase customer and pump the product here on mtbr.

    i love my nic, but it has issues .

    it's one of the reasons i don't run a nic HT or a 140mm trail Nic...

    however, with Turner and Chumba, I have had direct comms and support without the flaming and back-biting ....

    nothing is perfect in this world, but CS is king in consumer activity domains..........

  25. #25
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    @wpuk : the silverfish tie-up is not to be compared with the previous importer, Roundel....

    a true traversty

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    yeah - DT [turnerbikes] contributes impeccably on the Turner board....

    that level of input counts for a massive level of support.

    if we had more nicolai factory support here, a lot of issues surrounding incorrect frame spec / order details / etc may get ironed out before delivery "impact"...
    Agree more support would be great from Nicolai, that is being worked on. Are the results coming through quick enough? no... But I keep trying...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Agree more support would be great from Nicolai, that is being worked on. Are the results coming through quick enough? no... But I keep trying...

    well, repeat after me..... "I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, "................

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    yeah - DT [turnerbikes] contributes impeccably on the Turner board....
    In general i agree with you, he tends to leave it up to the people working for him to put their feet in their mouth, i have seen one thread recently where he came off as a prissy sarcastic pri ck

    As a general rule he is normally constructive and helpful though

  29. #29
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    wow - we agree.........................

    i'm not looking for approval, i'm looking to improve the contribution and detail available to all of us nicolai owners with Factory MTBR forum support.

    sounds like whafe is doing his utmost.

    props to the whafester in the wrong hemisphere

  30. #30
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    Sure doesnt look much like these factory pics









    Hope they sort you out cos that colour is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off
    www.essexhertsmtb.co.uk - Mountain Biking near London in the UK

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    wow - we agree.........................
    Dont get all gushy, it was only in general, im not going to start spooning you or anything

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    quoting myself from the german board (no color problem though):

    I can't complain when it comes to customer support at Nicolai. I ordered my AFR Frame with the nice old FR Gussets... First i got a Frame with normal AFR Gussets.

    Since i had to pay an upcharge(<100€) for the Gussets my dealer mailed Nicolai what to do about it.

    Karl Nicolai offered 3 options.
    1) i could keep the frame and get a small refund. (dunno how much)
    2) i could send the frame back to Nicolai immediately and get the new frame when its done.
    3) or keep the frame (and ride it!) till the new frame is done. then change it. Witout any Upcharge nor shipping costs.

    Well, i wanted to ride it.. so i went with opt. 3.

    a few weeks later the new frame was ready. my dealer mounted the components to the new frame and sent the old one back.

    thats it. perfect customer service imo.

    i think you or Nicolai got something wrong (at least about the mixed up colors). Just try to explain it again.

  33. #33
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    What is all this factory forum 'support' bull?!?!

    You got a problem you pick up the phone and ring the damn factory. Simples.

    Knowing from experience, it's got to be all or nothing when it comes to factory participation in online forums. Aside from the time it can consume, participation can also be a dangerous game, and one I don't blame them in not playing.

  34. #34
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    Rant above aside.....

    Dutch, I feel for you. There's nothing worse than being disappointed in something you've worked hard for..........
    It's not all bad though, whether it's in the colour you wanted or not, you've ended up with a stunning bike
    I hope you get it sorted.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    well, repeat after me..... "I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, I must try harder, "................
    Myself, I dont want Karl lets say participate as does DT on the Turner Forum, I think that is at the other end of the spectrum....

    In my years of dealing with Nicolai, I have not been let down with communication, hang, pick up the blower and give them a call.. Or email Karl direct...

    Again, hard when we cant get both sides of the story. Feel for Dutchy, for sure not cool all round, I have had to live with a crap orange colour on my fork on the AC29er, but have lived with it, better than a broken frame... However am not diluting the mistake here...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  36. #36
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    whafe - please PM dutch and myself the factory contact emails and details / phone numbers, etc.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpm100
    What is all this factory forum 'support' bull?!?!

    You got a problem you pick up the phone and ring the damn factory. Simples.

    Knowing from experience, it's got to be all or nothing when it comes to factory participation in online forums. Aside from the time it can consume, participation can also be a dangerous game, and one I don't blame them in not playing.
    I agree entirely. It's a dangerous game indeed. It's too easy to say the wrong thing or for things to be taken out of context. Throw in the language barrier and it could end In tears. As much as I'd like to see more input I think the sensible thing is to keep a safe distance.

    They could also end up spending a ridiculous amount of time answering trivial questions. Time Better spent building frames. Also time better spent putting together the technical information we could all benefit from. This would also prevent a lot of the need for factory forum participation.
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

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  38. #38
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    Hi everybody,

    good news, the problem is solved. I contacted Kalle and he solved all the problems.
    He produces me a complete new frame! Now I know again why I've bought a Nicolai.
    I'm really happy with this.

    his reaction:

    Hi Gudo

    to make the long story short ...... we will help you....

    we will just do all the needed thinks to serve you in the best way and
    produce a complete new frame and kick the ass of our anodising guy to make
    the colors more precise .

    please place a complete new order and we will produce this new
    frame free of charge for you. Your current frame can be given back to us as soon as you have the new frame in hand .

    please gimme your idea on this .

    best reg
    Karl Nicolai
    Last edited by Dutchdriver; 01-29-2011 at 02:06 PM.

  39. #39
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    There you go, just what I have come to expect from Nicolai. Excellent CS.

  40. #40
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    Simple in the end. Good to see, just planning my 5th.......

  41. #41
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    This is why Nicolai is the best ) Mind I love my frame and the only time it will go back is to be re-furbed

  42. #42
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    and we all lived happily after..

    Great news Dutchy... stoked for you... Here is hoping that the Ano dude does sort things and gets the colour good as...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  43. #43
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    Bad thread turns good.

    Unbelievable CS.

    Big brownie points KN.

  44. #44
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    stunning result.

    wonder if he'll do me a new frame free of pedal strike ?


    LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchdriver
    Update: problems solved thanks to Kalle!

    Hi everybody,

    good news, the problem is solved. I contacted Kalle and he solved all the problems.
    He produces me a complete new frame! Now I know again why I've bought a Nicolai.*
    I'm really happy with this.

    his reaction:*

    Hi Gudo

    to make the long story short ...... we will help you....*

    we will just do all the needed thinks to serve you in the best way and*
    produce a complete new frame and kick the ass of our anodising guy to make
    the colors more precise .*

    please place a complete new order and we will produce this new frame free of charge for you. Your current frame can be given back to us as soon as you have the new frame in hand .*

    please gimme your idea on this .*

    best reg
    Karl Nicolai


    Chuffed to bits for you
    Last edited by wpuk; 02-03-2011 at 09:55 AM.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks
    stunning result.

    wonder if he'll do me a new frame free of pedal strike ?


    LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Wouldnt actually take a new frame, it would be to shorten your legs!
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  47. #47
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    Nice to see this ending.
    In our opinion ,We have been dealing with Nicolai for almost 9 years now, they have never fail us in anyways or our customer. just take a look at the order generator, which is created to reduce ordering mistakes which we do encounter in the early years due to misundertanding of language and causes some mistake - paint, colour, option, shock.

    Never the less there are many Nicolai owners we have here that are satisfied owners and have never bought other bikes ever since they have their "1st" nicolai :P ~

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by AttitudeBikes
    Never the less there are many Nicolai owners we have here that are satisfied owners and have never bought other bikes ever since they have their "1st" nicolai :P ~
    On my third now. Dought I'll ever buy a different brand again

  49. #49
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    bit daft but understandable not to venture outside the nicolai brand.

    santa cruz, turner, ibis are all pushing the envelope with design and maerials as well as suspension systems.

    got to be worth a look ?

    i picked up an absolute bargain [VF2] and it's brilliant at what it was designed to do - and the Cove Hummer and On One Ti456 all have their own "character".....

    by submitting to one brand, i think your outlook is somewhat limited..........

    but Nicolai stuff is very well made.....

  50. #50
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    DW designs try and offer HT characteristics in a FS frame, to some they are great to others they lack traction and have crappy small bump compliance, if I wanted HT characteristics I'd buy a HT although I'm glad my hummer is few thousand miles away and never likely to darken UK shores again.*

    In ironing out design and/or crap QA turners have had plenty of opportunity to "evolve" their design whilst at the same time *allowing for the paid premium*in their prices to build a good (stateside) rep for customer service, turners nickname in the states are re-turners

    Carbons great ... for bike related stresses, it falls down non bike related stresses, but it does allow you greater say in building specific characteristics in specific areas, pretty sure not one of the carbon frame designers offer a 5 year warranty which covers racing, pretty sure if anyone were to try and offer such a warranty as carbon stands at the mo they would have to price themselves out the market.*

    Nothing wrong with trying things outside your box, there's also nothing wrong in brand loyalty which has been built on rock solid foundations of the bike you choose to ride

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