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  1. #1
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Convince me to get a Helius CC...

    I'm looking to get something a little less race orientated than my Spec Epic...with a bit more travel.

    I like riding challenging trails, and I like going up as much as down. Some of the stuff I ride is real rocky and loose.

    I like the look of the Helius CC.

    I also like the Ellesworth Epiphany which is a bit more travel.

    But I do not want a full on AM rig with big rotors

    Helius AM or FR? It would just be overkill I think, because there is plenty of twitchy single track around my way.

  2. #2
    "Its All Good"
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    A very good question for sure....

    Some more details on your riding and terrain would be good.

    What length travel fork are you running for your riding?
    Do you like leaving the ground and making some air?

    You mention moving away from totally specific race geo so to speak. Can I glean from this that you are looking for an all day epic bike, that can go like a cut cat when needed, and also take a fair bit of punishment?

    Some points I have on why I love Nicolai's..... Prior to having Nicolai frames I have had Ellsworth, Intense, Santa Cruz, ExoGrid Titus..............

    I very much love the high high level build quality, a 5 year warranty in race conditions, a frame that is as straight as can be, rifle barrel straight. The hardcore engineering look, which is not for everyones taste. The almost endless choice of colour and paint options. The stiffness of the rear end..... Could go on and on..... Please know I am not going on the just get you on a Nicolai. The quality speaks for itself....

    When you give a few more details, i will then for what its worth give you my opinions on which frame, the CC is for sure awesome, but you may well be better with the new Helius AM.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    A very good question for sure....

    Some more details on your riding and terrain would be good.

    What length travel fork are you running for your riding?
    Do you like leaving the ground and making some air?

    You mention moving away from totally specific race geo so to speak. Can I glean from this that you are looking for an all day epic bike, that can go like a cut cat when needed, and also take a fair bit of punishment?

    Some points I have on why I love Nicolai's..... Prior to having Nicolai frames I have had Ellsworth, Intense, Santa Cruz, ExoGrid Titus..............

    I very much love the high high level build quality, a 5 year warranty in race conditions, a frame that is as straight as can be, rifle barrel straight. The hardcore engineering look, which is not for everyones taste. The almost endless choice of colour and paint options. The stiffness of the rear end..... Could go on and on..... Please know I am not going on the just get you on a Nicolai. The quality speaks for itself....

    When you give a few more details, i will then for what its worth give you my opinions on which frame, the CC is for sure awesome, but you may well be better with the new Helius AM.....
    Well that is the thing; there is a good range of terrain where I ride, from fire roads, to twitchy single track, rock gardens, to sketchy and rugged descents. Some of the stuff is not proper trails and I have to walk my bike down it - although that probably says maybe more my bike skills .

    Quite a lot I feel like I need more than the 4" front sus on my Epic.

    People ride hardtails to 6 inch travel bikes on the rides I go on. Typically a stumpjumper type bike is common.

    No real mountains but plenty of steep sections here and there.

    Hardtails riders struggle with the real rugged stuff it goes without saying.

    I am not really interested in racing, but I want to keep up.

    Rides can be 2 hours plus.

  4. #4
    "Its All Good"
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    So what weight is your present bike?

    You see you can now build up a pretty strong killer trail / AM machine at say 29 - 30lbs...

    You could build a Helius CC that would absolutely rip, but still be really strong and capable, then again you could build up a new Helius AM with a RS Lyrik or Fox Talas (both 160mm) and have a bike that would be a trail weapon but could handle some good sized stuff....

    In saying that, I built my Helius FR as a everything type weapon, it is 34lbs, and it is absolutely awesome, has gone beyond what my perceptions were for the capability....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  5. #5
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    Testmaen - pipe in here, you are far more technical than I and help me answer this question....LOL
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  6. #6
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    Let me put in my 2 sense

    Having both CC and FR i would tell you to go CC. Let me explain the CC has 4.9 inches of travel so that would put it in the am market. The frame is way over build and is still light.I have taken the bike cross country and some nasty technical riding and the bike has performed effort less. You can build frame between 26 and 31 pounds depends on what you spec it with.Now one thing to remember you don't want to be flying in the air with this bike not meant to do that but if you keep wheels on the ground you shuold be fine. I think the FR would be overkill for you . The FR is the best bike that i have been on ever for the riding i am doing but the CC comes in a very very close second good luck with your decision.

  7. #7
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    What about the new AM?

  8. #8
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    Have one coming in can tell you more about it after i ride it . From what i see it looks like FR front and CC rear end

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karve
    What about the new AM?
    What is the deal with the AM; I can't find much info?

    Does it have a geom like the CC or the FR?

  10. #10
    "Its All Good"
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    have a lookey at this link, you may have already looked...... First Helius AM Pictures

    As I mentioned in my earlier post this could be an option
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncig
    From what i see it looks like FR front and CC rear end
    Not sure if it is FR front tri, the headtube gusset is for sure smaller etc.... Be interesting to know......
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  12. #12
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    Not 08 more like 07 or later

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Testmaen - pipe in here, you are far more technical than I and help me answer this question....LOL
    Yeah, well, after the recent expansion of the Helius family with the AM (and the RC), Iīm a little bit confused myself what to choose/recommend.

    On the one hand my dreambike has always been the CC because of its extreme versatility, lightness, "simple looks" for that amount of rear travel (-> no VPP or any other strange looking linkage system) and of course overall build-quality, but that you get with any Nicolai frame.

    On the other hand I always thought: Youīre no racer, never have been, never will be, so why not a frame, thats a bit beefier, still light, but with a bit more reserves for my *cough* very muscular body, but without the massive reserves of a FR and the weight, that comes with that. With the recent FR "facelift" those reserves got even bigger, and of course the weight "penalty" too. Although I donīt see myself jumping any big gaps in a bikepark, I always liked the option to do that and that the FR would be capable of doing that, without risking the warranty.

    So the AM seems like the perfect mix of Nicolai genes, relatively light, but very strong. I guess you can build one at 14kg (30 pounds) without sticking your head too long in part-catalogues and compare weights.

    I think what "ncig" said is (almost ) dead on. FR main frame with CC seat and chainstays. Well, itīs not exactly the same main frame, the HT gusset is different, shock link and mounting as well. 2-3 years back you could choose that exact option, FR main frame with CC rear as factory option. (see also attached picture)

    I guess you all know the dilemma of judging your riding style right and than what to pick to fit that riding style the most. In the concrete matter of "the_rydster" I would propably keep my eyes more on a AM than on a CC, since from what I know the Spec. Epic already is a strong CC/Marathon bike and the step from the Epic up to the CC may be smaller than you expect.

    I attached a picture of one of the first customer AMīs. Weight is 15,4kg (~34 ponds) with heavy tires. May be that shed some light on one of your thoughts ...


  14. #14
    "Its All Good"
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    Testman sums it up well, with reading the input of the original poster, I would be inclined to go with the new Helius AM...... Am 100% you could build a set up under 30lbs....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Am 100% you could build a set up under 30lbs....
    Yeah, me too, especially when you make full use of what the space-age-material-market has to offer. Yummy!

    Seems like a new excel sheet with a niiiice part and weight calculation has to be opened. Damn it!

  16. #16
    "Its All Good"
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    [QUOTE=Testmaen]
    Seems like a new excel sheet with a niiiice part and weight calculation has to be opened. Damn it! [/QUOTE

    LMAO]
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  17. #17
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    The geometry of the Helius AM is according to Falco (Nicolai marketing guy) the same, as the FRīs. You can find the FR geo specs at http://www.nicolai.net/products/size...s-fr-size.html

  18. #18
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    Guy's i would be hard press to say am when the 08 FR at 31 pounds how much lighter is the am going to be. Not to disagree with any of you but the cc is a hard bike not to pick i know that it is considered a cross country bike but people that have rode it know it alot more then that. And the geometry of the am is the same as FR . What it comes down to is what he really does most of his riding is going to be. Like i said before My FR is the best bike i have ever rode for the type of trails that i am riding.

  19. #19
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    I forgot to ask.

    I'm about 6' 1"

    Would the Large size CC be right for me?

  20. #20
    "Its All Good"
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_rydster
    I forgot to ask.

    I'm about 6' 1"

    Would the Large size CC be right for me?
    Good question..... Lorni is 6'4" and rides an XL Helius FR, I am 6'3" and ride a L Helius FR.... For the build I wanted, wanted something slightly smaller to throw around etc..

    But if you are building up a hardcore trailbike that is not going to be getting air etc, I would look closer at your dimensions, inseam etc and start looking closer at the TT length, ST length etc, and what sort of bike feel you are wanting...

    Just thinking outside the box The_rydster, I would look carefully if in fact a Helius AM may well be the ticket, if you are wanting your riding to progress but for now cover your needs, feel the AM may be a better option. Just a thought to confuse oyu far more than we all already have...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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