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  1. #1
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    Colour is sometimes the easiest decision...

    for me anyway. Long ago I decided my Nicolai's should be ano black. however I do have other dilemmas.

    I think I have almost decided on the specifications of my next frame with one detail to be decided..rear travel/chainstay length

    To put it in context, I want this bike to be a bit of an all rounder but biased towards descending on steep, flowy single track, not really gnarly, but fast. If I'm jumping its cos its there. Manualling, If I have too but not for fun..

    Longish TT required to allow comfy 50mm stem, 750mm or wider bars, lowish TT/ST to get the seat out the way and have a compact feeling bike.

    Check out the links below, Sestri and Finale were the rounds I raced last year. I'll definitely be in Finale again and maybe one more this year.
    I raced the Trans Provence the year before on a Rigid Jones 29er but with nice fat tyres

    This is what I like to ride and race.

    Trans-Provence 2012 Teaser on Vimeo

    2011 Superenduro Season Recap - Pinkbike.com

    I'm looking at a custom AC 29er with AM down tube to take 555 A2C forks with a slacker head angle but adjustable for different terrain.

    It needs to major on grip and speed but it must pedal and climb well, these races are 1500m plus climbing over 35 to 40 miles. It would also be my go to bike for rides like Trans Provence, again 35-40 miles a day. 1500m-200m climbing a day 7 days.

    Now there are some gnarly bits but much of it is fast and flowy, rocky and steep bits but not fast rock fests.

    So, Q. Would you prefer to be able to use a 2.4 or 2.5 tyre or have an extra 10 to 20mm of travel and why?

    I have always liked the grip and cushioning of a big tyre on a wide rim, 28mm min. tubeless. Particularly the grip, the ability to run big volume at low pressure without worrying too much about rim strikes.

    Q. And just how important (or not) is a short chain stay and why?

    The standard AC29 seems to get loved in reviews and by owners with relatively long stays, with a great and pretty detailed write up by twentynineinches' Guitar Ted.
    Our very own Dipper has nothing but good words to say other than some small changes, which I think are addressed in the custom design.
    Whafe's a fan, obviously since he kinda started it all...
    Is the overall wheelbase a key factor..

    The problem is to shorten the stays the seat tube has to be moved forward, to do that, it adds weight and probably still creates tyre compromises with a 2.35 probably being the biggest tyre to fit at 130mm (According to Cyril)

    Question is, is the 120mm of the stock bike enough travel given I can use a 2.4 or 2.5 tyre in there for the type of riding you see in the videos and UK riding.

    Secondly is it worth making significant changes to the frame/weight and compromising tyre choice and front mech compatibility (All doable but without doubt compromises, just of a different nature to chain stay length if indeed that is a compromise) to shorten the chain stay length and increase the rear travel given the terrain I want to ride.

    I'm looking at a sub 29lb build..I think geometry and tube lengths can be delivered that allow the use of either 120mm (525 a2c) or 140mm(555 a2c) forks at head angles you would sensibly use for those fork lengths/terrain but maintaining the riding position, BB height, and cockpit of the standard bike with a slightly lower bar height and keeping the wheelbase within that of a Med 26' AM at its slackest of 68deg.

    Discuss...but not too much, I've got to order it soon...

    PS. Thanks go to Cyril and Whafe off this forum of all their assistance so far on this project its been enlightening.

    Also Nicolai have been great with info.

    If its relevant its replacing my Helius AM 26"
    Last edited by the_pilot; 01-19-2012 at 07:54 AM.
    Aka chainline...

  2. #2
    steep fast and loose :)
    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
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    what delivery are you expecting ? they seem really slow at the moment.......

  3. #3
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    No comment on tyres or chain stays!

    Delivery, I'm hoping for late February or sometime in March. Got to make this chain stay length/travel decision first!!
    Aka chainline...

  4. #4
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    i think you probably know my take on it by now. id stick with standard chainstays and 120mm rear travel then run big tyres. ive yet to be in a situation where i've felt more travel would help when running 2.5 ardents. for what you want it for i think the 140 is a good idea. not so much for the travel but for the stiffness. the stiffness of the frame does show up the flex in the fork. especially at speed and on the brakes. cant say it bothers me but it would help.

    i run 2 different stems depending on what im doing. i like the 50 but prefer longer for all day stuff. im a bit taller than you but i suspect your proposed 610mm TT would suit me well also and id get away with the shorter stem for more stuff.

    A degree or 2 off the HA would be worth playing with as well. The bike is so good as is that i wouldnt stray too far from stock on the rest of the geo but as you've worked out the angleset you plan on allows stock geo and if required

    i really dont think you'll go wrong with the spec you've come up with
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

    flash bikes for flash gits

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    No comment on tyres or chain stays!

    Delivery, I'm hoping for late February or sometime in March. Got to make this chain stay length/travel decision first!!
    Sory for a little bit off topic, but I have similiar question, I have ordered custom geometry ION 20 frame 2 months ago, acording to last info from nikolai, tubes were cuted, and frame should be finnished in middle of december, I have send them email several times, but nobody is responding.
    I don`t want to stress, but a simple answer like: its gonna be delayed, probably until march, thats what I expect.
    do you have any experience how long it can take? should I call them?
    thx. one more time sory for offtopic

  6. #6
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    Just call them. Its often the better way reach them.

    In general they tend to take 2-3 weeks longer than the initial date, everything custom makes for a longer wait.

  7. #7
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by marcoton21 View Post
    Just call them. Its often the better way reach them.

    In general they tend to take 2-3 weeks longer than the initial date, everything custom makes for a longer wait.
    thx I will call them

  8. #8
    steep fast and loose :)
    Reputation: The_Lecht_Rocks's Avatar
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    let us know their response - have they gone into liquidation ?

  9. #9
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    Eh? I ignore you half the time. Doesn't mean I've gone bust!
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

    flash bikes for flash gits

  10. #10
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    i had the experience when calling with vincent on the phone that his emails did not went through to me.
    at some times i was a littlebit pissed that they couldnt answer a little question with a short email but now i know whats up in my case.
    best thing is you give them a call.

    regards

  11. #11
    "Its All Good"
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    pilot, sorry for slow reply, been flat out...

    I would for a start go with a Fox 34 fork, I rode one on Saturday, got offered a ride on a Yeti SB95, a proto... Another story for another day...

    Anyway, the fork was a 120mm Fox 34, the extra stiffness was oh so good....

    For your application, do think 120mm will be sufficient... I am a naughty boy, have been pushing the AC, I think this comes from having the AM for jumpy's. But still have been going hard on the AC... It is an amazing frame...

    If I had my time again, would have a Fox 34 on the AC, beef up the head tube area, of which is happening with a tappered head tube, and run 120mm of rear travel....

    Still love the AM though for stiffness and getting it done....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  12. #12
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    Whafe cheers.

    Its definitely getting a 34 for the time being with maybe German:A's sub 2kg 36mm stantioned 140mm 20mm bolt through when it comes out at the end of the year. Downtube is AM.

    Head tube will be 1.5" to allow for the angle set. I asked for the id44/id56 standard taper to run zero stack top and bottom but this was a no go. However a ZS49 top with EC49 bottom is a very low set up anyway.

    TT longer at 610mm to make for a comfortable 50mm stem riding position.

    Head angle is currently pitched at 70.5deg with a 525 A2C fork. Reasoning behind this is it allows me to go to 68deg with a 140mm with little change to the BB or ST angle OR to run it at 120mm at 71 or 71.5 deg again with almost the same BB height etc.

    I could cut it a few ways and spec it slacker for the longer fork and steepen it but 70.5 appears to offer a good compromise in that not much changes at the extremes.

    I'm not sure I'll run it with a 120mm but the flexibility is a benefit.

    The Issue I have is the chain stay length, which stems from not having ridden one, particularly slackened.

    The basic length of the 70.5deg design is 1152mm with standard chain stays (Stock is 1125). With 140mm fork this lengthens to 1161mm at 68.5deg or 1165mm at 68deg. So about Large AM 26' territory (1166mm).

    Comparable bikes' chain stays with 68.5 Deg HA being the Norco Shinobi at 1160mm, Niner WFO or RIP with 140mm at 1158/1160 and the Transition Bandit29 at 1161mm. However most have shorter chain stays as is current vogue.The Transition 447mm, the Norco 452mm. This changes the front/rear balance very slightly as you'd expect. But I do want mine to be a very good climber.

    So the less complicated and lighter, traditional looking, non offset seat tube design that can be setup anywhere from full XC std angles with 120mm to bonza free ride with 140mm is in the ballpark of the current crop of AM 29ers, the Banshee Prime Cyril is testing comes in at 1190mm I think which is rather long!

    If I use a normal Med AC29 TT it becomes 1151mm at 68.5deg, close to my current Med AM 26" and when run with 120mm forks, almost exactly as the standard bike, which was my original goal since it is so well regarded, but I think it might be cramped with a 50mm stem, 600mm TT, 74deg ST.

    I have to use a 3cm setback post on my current bike with the saddle all the way back for a good pedalling position, the reach is 405, although the ST on mine is steeper than std due to the slacker HTA. The std AC29 is 415mm reach.

    I'll know that piece of the puzzle better after a ride on Dippers.

    Tell us about the Yeti then Whafe?
    Last edited by the_pilot; 01-23-2012 at 07:33 AM.
    Aka chainline...

  13. #13
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    Hi Pilot, might be worth checking out the new Devinci Atlas 29er, has similar geo. to what your trying to achieve, I believe? Freeborn, Horsham are the distributors and have one you could throw a leg over. Some pics from another web page

    In The Shop Devinci Atlas RC 29er

  14. #14
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    Well the deliberation is over, probably much to Dippers relief! I'm told I must now cross my fingers and hope I get what I think has been ordered ;-) which I have to say makes me a little nervous! I feel an almost uncontrollable urge to check...that won't be a surprise to some of you.

    So geometry, specs and colour all decided, fork decided, kind of hanging on for a KS Lev launch in the next month otherwise I will be forced to make a different dropper post choice. I think we achieved the goal in the end but the proof of the pudding will be in the riding...

    Specs a mix of the boutique and the practical & will probably result in a 29lb, certainly very stiff, definitely bulletproof, probably rather fast and hopefully fun AM bike not ruined by its contra trend chainstay length :-)

    Thanks for all the input
    Aka chainline...

  15. #15
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    So I can indulge in a bit of this
    [IMG] _1060753
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  16. #16
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    Which will require the Hammerschizzle, V2s on 203's and some big ass rims and tyres:-)
    Aka chainline...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks View Post
    let us know their response - have they gone into liquidation ?
    I have called em a week ago, they said that the frame should be ready in 2 weeks, som i`m waiting

  18. #18
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    Well, I did a u-turn at the last minute, and returned to my original gut feeling!!!

    Final drawing below..delivery due around 16th March...Intended specification to follow.

    [IMG]
    Helius ACe Final by philip.pryor, on Flickr[/IMG]
    Aka chainline...

  19. #19
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    Well, the welder has the drawing, no changing my mind now!!

    Currently musing over Enve Rims laced to Hope Pro2 Evos with CX-Rays. Pro2's might seem like a strange choice but they're not too heavy, about the same as CK, have very flexible axle options at the front, are cheap, made near me and importantly will be compatible with the integrated cassette/freewheel they are due to release soon..Also considered BOR but I think the rims will blow most of the budget!

    Definitely running the HS. Going to polish up the arms and add a pimp kit I think..

    V2's are going to stay for the time being, I'm pretty tempted by race x2/M4 combo for weight/power

    Havoc Carbon Bars, Point One or Thomson 50mm stem, my trusty 74g carbon Saevid saddle..

    Not sure on reverb or KS LEV yet...

    Rear derailleur and shifter is a secret for now...
    Aka chainline...

  20. #20
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    Are you a Ba'lick local then? I'm in Bradford.

  21. #21
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    Unfortunately not that near, South of the Peaks, near Leicester. Couple of hours away, but thats a lot nearer than America or Germany!
    Aka chainline...

  22. #22
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    Pilot, what is the head angle you finally settled on?

  23. #23
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    As that drawing 70.5deg with a 525mm fork(120) but I'll be using the 140mm (555mm)fox 34 initially. Hence the AM downtube.
    That head angle allows me 68deg to 70.3 with the.140, with the BB and stack/reach +\-2mm. Negligible ST angle change.
    69-71.3 with a 120mm
    Aka chainline...

  24. #24
    "Its All Good"
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    Your build is getting closer to mine... Go the ENVE rims... Seriously been great... Strong as too....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe View Post
    Your build is getting closer to mine... Go the ENVE rims... Seriously been great... Strong as too....
    If I can I will whafe. I'll most likely run it at 120mm a fair bit for pedalling performance. and I do want to try and keep it fairly light, it's all AC tubing except the DT; slight dilemma with the the V2s and HS, everything else is very light, but the terrain I ride in France/Italy is ideal for a HS and it's tough as to. Probably 300g penalty but I can live with that. Brakes the only other one. I could save 200g, going xtr but I like hope modulation/service/spares. I could maybe save 150g with the x2 race lever//m4 caliper combo. Well see.

    I've been researching the Acros hydraulic derailleur & shifter..

    So yes I guess it's between the AC & the monster truck..😄 I reckon that's a pretty big compliment!
    Aka chainline...

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