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  1. #1
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    Colour is sometimes the easiest decision...

    for me anyway. Long ago I decided my Nicolai's should be ano black. however I do have other dilemmas.

    I think I have almost decided on the specifications of my next frame with one detail to be decided..rear travel/chainstay length

    To put it in context, I want this bike to be a bit of an all rounder but biased towards descending on steep, flowy single track, not really gnarly, but fast. If I'm jumping its cos its there. Manualling, If I have too but not for fun..

    Longish TT required to allow comfy 50mm stem, 750mm or wider bars, lowish TT/ST to get the seat out the way and have a compact feeling bike.

    Check out the links below, Sestri and Finale were the rounds I raced last year. I'll definitely be in Finale again and maybe one more this year.
    I raced the Trans Provence the year before on a Rigid Jones 29er but with nice fat tyres

    This is what I like to ride and race.



    2011 Superenduro Season Recap - Pinkbike.com

    I'm looking at a custom AC 29er with AM down tube to take 555 A2C forks with a slacker head angle but adjustable for different terrain.

    It needs to major on grip and speed but it must pedal and climb well, these races are 1500m plus climbing over 35 to 40 miles. It would also be my go to bike for rides like Trans Provence, again 35-40 miles a day. 1500m-200m climbing a day 7 days.

    Now there are some gnarly bits but much of it is fast and flowy, rocky and steep bits but not fast rock fests.

    So, Q. Would you prefer to be able to use a 2.4 or 2.5 tyre or have an extra 10 to 20mm of travel and why?

    I have always liked the grip and cushioning of a big tyre on a wide rim, 28mm min. tubeless. Particularly the grip, the ability to run big volume at low pressure without worrying too much about rim strikes.

    Q. And just how important (or not) is a short chain stay and why?

    The standard AC29 seems to get loved in reviews and by owners with relatively long stays, with a great and pretty detailed write up by twentynineinches' Guitar Ted.
    Our very own Dipper has nothing but good words to say other than some small changes, which I think are addressed in the custom design.
    Whafe's a fan, obviously since he kinda started it all...
    Is the overall wheelbase a key factor..

    The problem is to shorten the stays the seat tube has to be moved forward, to do that, it adds weight and probably still creates tyre compromises with a 2.35 probably being the biggest tyre to fit at 130mm (According to Cyril)

    Question is, is the 120mm of the stock bike enough travel given I can use a 2.4 or 2.5 tyre in there for the type of riding you see in the videos and UK riding.

    Secondly is it worth making significant changes to the frame/weight and compromising tyre choice and front mech compatibility (All doable but without doubt compromises, just of a different nature to chain stay length if indeed that is a compromise) to shorten the chain stay length and increase the rear travel given the terrain I want to ride.

    I'm looking at a sub 29lb build..I think geometry and tube lengths can be delivered that allow the use of either 120mm (525 a2c) or 140mm(555 a2c) forks at head angles you would sensibly use for those fork lengths/terrain but maintaining the riding position, BB height, and cockpit of the standard bike with a slightly lower bar height and keeping the wheelbase within that of a Med 26' AM at its slackest of 68deg.

    Discuss...but not too much, I've got to order it soon...

    PS. Thanks go to Cyril and Whafe off this forum of all their assistance so far on this project its been enlightening.

    Also Nicolai have been great with info.

    If its relevant its replacing my Helius AM 26"
    Last edited by the_pilot; 01-19-2012 at 07:54 AM.
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  2. #2
    steep fast and loose :)
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    what delivery are you expecting ? they seem really slow at the moment.......

  3. #3
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    No comment on tyres or chain stays!

    Delivery, I'm hoping for late February or sometime in March. Got to make this chain stay length/travel decision first!!
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  4. #4
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    i think you probably know my take on it by now. id stick with standard chainstays and 120mm rear travel then run big tyres. ive yet to be in a situation where i've felt more travel would help when running 2.5 ardents. for what you want it for i think the 140 is a good idea. not so much for the travel but for the stiffness. the stiffness of the frame does show up the flex in the fork. especially at speed and on the brakes. cant say it bothers me but it would help.

    i run 2 different stems depending on what im doing. i like the 50 but prefer longer for all day stuff. im a bit taller than you but i suspect your proposed 610mm TT would suit me well also and id get away with the shorter stem for more stuff.

    A degree or 2 off the HA would be worth playing with as well. The bike is so good as is that i wouldnt stray too far from stock on the rest of the geo but as you've worked out the angleset you plan on allows stock geo and if required

    i really dont think you'll go wrong with the spec you've come up with
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    No comment on tyres or chain stays!

    Delivery, I'm hoping for late February or sometime in March. Got to make this chain stay length/travel decision first!!
    Sory for a little bit off topic, but I have similiar question, I have ordered custom geometry ION 20 frame 2 months ago, acording to last info from nikolai, tubes were cuted, and frame should be finnished in middle of december, I have send them email several times, but nobody is responding.
    I don`t want to stress, but a simple answer like: its gonna be delayed, probably until march, thats what I expect.
    do you have any experience how long it can take? should I call them?
    thx. one more time sory for offtopic

  6. #6
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    Just call them. Its often the better way reach them.

    In general they tend to take 2-3 weeks longer than the initial date, everything custom makes for a longer wait.

  7. #7
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by marcoton21 View Post
    Just call them. Its often the better way reach them.

    In general they tend to take 2-3 weeks longer than the initial date, everything custom makes for a longer wait.
    thx I will call them

  8. #8
    steep fast and loose :)
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    let us know their response - have they gone into liquidation ?

  9. #9
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    Eh? I ignore you half the time. Doesn't mean I've gone bust!
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

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  10. #10
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    i had the experience when calling with vincent on the phone that his emails did not went through to me.
    at some times i was a littlebit pissed that they couldnt answer a little question with a short email but now i know whats up in my case.
    best thing is you give them a call.

    regards

  11. #11
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    pilot, sorry for slow reply, been flat out...

    I would for a start go with a Fox 34 fork, I rode one on Saturday, got offered a ride on a Yeti SB95, a proto... Another story for another day...

    Anyway, the fork was a 120mm Fox 34, the extra stiffness was oh so good....

    For your application, do think 120mm will be sufficient... I am a naughty boy, have been pushing the AC, I think this comes from having the AM for jumpy's. But still have been going hard on the AC... It is an amazing frame...

    If I had my time again, would have a Fox 34 on the AC, beef up the head tube area, of which is happening with a tappered head tube, and run 120mm of rear travel....

    Still love the AM though for stiffness and getting it done....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  12. #12
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    Whafe cheers.

    Its definitely getting a 34 for the time being with maybe German:A's sub 2kg 36mm stantioned 140mm 20mm bolt through when it comes out at the end of the year. Downtube is AM.

    Head tube will be 1.5" to allow for the angle set. I asked for the id44/id56 standard taper to run zero stack top and bottom but this was a no go. However a ZS49 top with EC49 bottom is a very low set up anyway.

    TT longer at 610mm to make for a comfortable 50mm stem riding position.

    Head angle is currently pitched at 70.5deg with a 525 A2C fork. Reasoning behind this is it allows me to go to 68deg with a 140mm with little change to the BB or ST angle OR to run it at 120mm at 71 or 71.5 deg again with almost the same BB height etc.

    I could cut it a few ways and spec it slacker for the longer fork and steepen it but 70.5 appears to offer a good compromise in that not much changes at the extremes.

    I'm not sure I'll run it with a 120mm but the flexibility is a benefit.

    The Issue I have is the chain stay length, which stems from not having ridden one, particularly slackened.

    The basic length of the 70.5deg design is 1152mm with standard chain stays (Stock is 1125). With 140mm fork this lengthens to 1161mm at 68.5deg or 1165mm at 68deg. So about Large AM 26' territory (1166mm).

    Comparable bikes' chain stays with 68.5 Deg HA being the Norco Shinobi at 1160mm, Niner WFO or RIP with 140mm at 1158/1160 and the Transition Bandit29 at 1161mm. However most have shorter chain stays as is current vogue.The Transition 447mm, the Norco 452mm. This changes the front/rear balance very slightly as you'd expect. But I do want mine to be a very good climber.

    So the less complicated and lighter, traditional looking, non offset seat tube design that can be setup anywhere from full XC std angles with 120mm to bonza free ride with 140mm is in the ballpark of the current crop of AM 29ers, the Banshee Prime Cyril is testing comes in at 1190mm I think which is rather long!

    If I use a normal Med AC29 TT it becomes 1151mm at 68.5deg, close to my current Med AM 26" and when run with 120mm forks, almost exactly as the standard bike, which was my original goal since it is so well regarded, but I think it might be cramped with a 50mm stem, 600mm TT, 74deg ST.

    I have to use a 3cm setback post on my current bike with the saddle all the way back for a good pedalling position, the reach is 405, although the ST on mine is steeper than std due to the slacker HTA. The std AC29 is 415mm reach.

    I'll know that piece of the puzzle better after a ride on Dippers.

    Tell us about the Yeti then Whafe?
    Last edited by the_pilot; 01-23-2012 at 07:33 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Hi Pilot, might be worth checking out the new Devinci Atlas 29er, has similar geo. to what your trying to achieve, I believe? Freeborn, Horsham are the distributors and have one you could throw a leg over. Some pics from another web page

    In The Shop – Devinci Atlas RC 29er

  14. #14
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    Well the deliberation is over, probably much to Dippers relief! I'm told I must now cross my fingers and hope I get what I think has been ordered ;-) which I have to say makes me a little nervous! I feel an almost uncontrollable urge to check...that won't be a surprise to some of you.

    So geometry, specs and colour all decided, fork decided, kind of hanging on for a KS Lev launch in the next month otherwise I will be forced to make a different dropper post choice. I think we achieved the goal in the end but the proof of the pudding will be in the riding...

    Specs a mix of the boutique and the practical & will probably result in a 29lb, certainly very stiff, definitely bulletproof, probably rather fast and hopefully fun AM bike not ruined by its contra trend chainstay length :-)

    Thanks for all the input
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  15. #15
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    So I can indulge in a bit of this
    [IMG] _1060753
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  16. #16
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    Which will require the Hammerschizzle, V2s on 203's and some big ass rims and tyres:-)
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Lecht_Rocks View Post
    let us know their response - have they gone into liquidation ?
    I have called em a week ago, they said that the frame should be ready in 2 weeks, som i`m waiting

  18. #18
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    Well, I did a u-turn at the last minute, and returned to my original gut feeling!!!

    Final drawing below..delivery due around 16th March...Intended specification to follow.


    Helius ACe Final by philip.pryor, on Flickr" width="549">
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  19. #19
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    Well, the welder has the drawing, no changing my mind now!!

    Currently musing over Enve Rims laced to Hope Pro2 Evos with CX-Rays. Pro2's might seem like a strange choice but they're not too heavy, about the same as CK, have very flexible axle options at the front, are cheap, made near me and importantly will be compatible with the integrated cassette/freewheel they are due to release soon..Also considered BOR but I think the rims will blow most of the budget!

    Definitely running the HS. Going to polish up the arms and add a pimp kit I think..

    V2's are going to stay for the time being, I'm pretty tempted by race x2/M4 combo for weight/power

    Havoc Carbon Bars, Point One or Thomson 50mm stem, my trusty 74g carbon Saevid saddle..

    Not sure on reverb or KS LEV yet...

    Rear derailleur and shifter is a secret for now...
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  20. #20
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    Are you a Ba'lick local then? I'm in Bradford.

  21. #21
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    Unfortunately not that near, South of the Peaks, near Leicester. Couple of hours away, but thats a lot nearer than America or Germany!
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  22. #22
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    Pilot, what is the head angle you finally settled on?

  23. #23
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    As that drawing 70.5deg with a 525mm fork(120) but I'll be using the 140mm (555mm)fox 34 initially. Hence the AM downtube.
    That head angle allows me 68deg to 70.3 with the.140, with the BB and stack/reach +\-2mm. Negligible ST angle change.
    69-71.3 with a 120mm
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  24. #24
    "Its All Good"
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    Your build is getting closer to mine... Go the ENVE rims... Seriously been great... Strong as too....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe View Post
    Your build is getting closer to mine... Go the ENVE rims... Seriously been great... Strong as too....
    If I can I will whafe. I'll most likely run it at 120mm a fair bit for pedalling performance. and I do want to try and keep it fairly light, it's all AC tubing except the DT; slight dilemma with the the V2s and HS, everything else is very light, but the terrain I ride in France/Italy is ideal for a HS and it's tough as to. Probably 300g penalty but I can live with that. Brakes the only other one. I could save 200g, going xtr but I like hope modulation/service/spares. I could maybe save 150g with the x2 race lever//m4 caliper combo. Well see.

    I've been researching the Acros hydraulic derailleur & shifter..

    So yes I guess it's between the AC & the monster truck..😄 I reckon that's a pretty big compliment!
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  26. #26
    "Its All Good"
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    LOL, dam, I knew it re the Acros kit.... Very sexy indeed, be interesting to see how it performs....

    Yeah, looking forward to this beast of your being built, it will for sure be a single track slayer.... Oh the waiting game sucks....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  27. #27
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    I'm not counting chickens for the Acros kit yet. No official prices available as such and even my female logic of parts justification may come under close scrutiny from the auditor (wife) with this one!!

    They are scary expensive, BUT, (the logic begins) fully rebuildable, all parts available as spares...otherwise it would be a lot for a disposable part...
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  28. #28
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    Forks have landed. 140mm Float F34. Prices have been established for Enve rims, heart attack ensued...but still a possibility. Acros mech unlikely this year. Have decided to spend that cash on thrashing the bike in sunny places with singletrack ;-)

    Polishing of Hammerschmidt crank arms has commenced and the inner turmoil over the extra 1lb of weight on the bike has well and truly set in, but I do struggle to see anything comparable...

    In theory the frame should have been welded together by now...
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  29. #29
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    Nearly forgot. BOS looking into the vip'r tune. Tho not all that quickly I have to say..
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  30. #30
    "Its All Good"
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    Excitement is building.... A whole lotta yeah ha
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  31. #31
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    Soon...

    Having a general wobble over the head angle I've gone for now...should I have specced it slacker!
    It will be 68deg with the angle set and 140 fork, I could put a 2deg headset in to go 67.5.

    I really can't see needing slacker than 68deg, but having now spent some time on the std AC29, I also don't think I would personally take it beyond 71deg, where as my spec allows me to make it std.

    I think 70.5 as a std HA will be spot on with a 120mm fork.

    It was the balance of wanting to try the std bike before speccing the custom, but not wanting to miss the production slot so have to wait till the end of summer.

    Having said that, the standard head angle with Fox 32mm 120mm forks has been good for a almost everything and I honestly can't say I've thought 'oh my word' this is twitchy' Its generally been 'oh my word this is fun!'

    So roll on, hopefully no more than a couple of weeks to wait...
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  32. #32
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    I'm a happy boy today. I turns out, following a conversation with a Chris at BOS that for pre-2010 Helius AMs the vipr was usually a No1 tune, unless the rider was light, then it was recommended to go to No2 for a more responsive shock. Luckily I am quite light...And when I checked my shock...it's No2

    The upshot is my shock IS in the right tune already apart from a couple of O rings, an easy fix. Ace!
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  33. #33
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    Damn, problem with my frame...being sorted, but delay :-(
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  34. #34
    steep fast and loose :)
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    what problem phil ?

  35. #35
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    Wrong head tube unfortunately.
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  36. #36
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    So after much discussion the latest date is May 19th. Bets anyone...I'm still faffing over parts anyway...it had better be good!
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  37. #37
    steep fast and loose :)
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    i expect it'll be brilliant - mine is absolutely superb and exactly what i wanted ! love iit...

    stable, neutral, massively fast rolling, whats not to like ?

  38. #38
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    I reckon I'll like it. 27lb dead in 1x10 format....if the frame comes in on estimated weight. Its being anodised as we speak I'm told...
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  39. #39
    steep fast and loose :)
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    27lb is optimistic IMO.
    Need eVidence if you get it that low...
    Mine is 29.5 with full xtr and some very shiny kit.....

  40. #40
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    My saddle is only 72 g. That might give you an idea! A normal light mtb saddle is 250g. That's 0.5lb saved ;-) carbon wheels....carbon flat bar...carbon chainguide....I think the frame is aluminium!!
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  41. #41
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    wheels are taking shape. Whafe you would be proud of me. Could have been lighter but strength and stiffness should be right up there in the stratosphere..15mm front/12mm rear.

    Enve/CK/CXray - 1726g

    Drivetrain will be in two parts. Hammerschmidt for Alps adventures, 1x10 for UK riding (unless it breaks me)

    We have
    xtr crank with 32t ring - 660g with BB
    xtr rear mech med cage - 180g
    Xtr shifter - 100g
    Sram XX cassette 11-36 - 206g
    YBN hollow pin chain - 220g
    Carbocage carbon chain device - 75g

    Just need the frame.....it is finished and allegedly being shipped....
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  42. #42
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    mmmmm

    IMG_0641
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  43. #43
    "Its All Good"
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    Yumminess pilot, this wheel set will blow your mind...... Great choice, rims will look very stealthy post removal of the stickers.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  44. #44
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    It's in the country on Dippers sofa..how exciting....won't be able to deliver the final final build until June when the longer rear shock arrives but it'll be close....waited 5 months..a few more days will now be torture...
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  45. #45
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    216x63 RP23 CTDshock will be here early, not June but ...next week..just the -15mm mount now..

    In other news the frame has come in at 3300g, (3450 with the front mech fitted but that's coming off) which is 50g more than I estimated, but pretty happy with that. But the angleset is 10g lighter, yay.

    A slight shock when Dipper discovered it had a 30.9 seat tube size NOT a 31.6. WTF...I can only assume its for stiffness as a result of me lowering the seat tube and top tube height by 15mm. I know that can impact on stiffness from research on other frames and chatting to designers. Maybe Nicolai have a few clued up engineers then eh ;-)

    Anyways it means my wife is the new owner of my Reverb and I am a few hundred quid lighter in the pocket than expected...

    just waiting on a few bits. Wheels should be ready today.

    Weight has gone up a bit :-( due to deciding to fit a straitline silent guide chain device, which is more protective than others but 25g or so heavier. I wouldn't run without any kind of bash protection and heard varying reports of the durability of the plastic guides so I've bitten the bullet.

    I have some Magura Storm SL discs on the way in 203/180mm format, very light but solid and strong by all accounts.

    So wait for the postman and then let the weighing begin, sorry I meant riding begin ;-)
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  46. #46
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    and the obligatory first pic on Dippers Sofa!


    NicAC29e
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  47. #47
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    Save 30g a here and 30g there..just don't do it where it compromises your ride..

    12g of precision..does what it says on the tin!


    12g of usefulness
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  48. #48
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    One down , one to go..838g taped and valved...

    ChrisKing Enve
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  49. #49
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    It's built....and I've ridden it...and its bloody awesome...and it weighs just a bit over 27lb...did I mention its awesome...68deg HA is a great trail head angle..

    No pictures yet, need the final build before that...waiting on some brake rotors.. next few days, after a bit more riding...more riding less pictures.
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  50. #50
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    Ok an interim teaser pic, shakedown ride, not final spec. completion of final spec due Fri...
    [IMG] IMG_0677
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