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  1. #1
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    CCDB settings for NIcs

    I thought it might be a good idea to share info. on this, since I know quite a few Nic owners run CCDB's. I will be wanting to set up my CCDB's on my two new frames: Helius CC and Helius ST. Any suggestions on where to start would be appreciated. My rider weight is 200lb.....350lb spring on CC set on second hole......400lb spring on ST set on 3rd hole down (I am going to run a dual set-up). Nicolai have blanked the two top holes on the ST. The 400lb spring for the ST was suggested by Cane Creek. I also have a 450lb spring available to try on the CC.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
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    This is an interesting topic. I have lost a little weight since coming out of hospital but was never convinced that the 700lb spring was right for my 230lb frame. It always felt hard and not the most plush. To that end, I set about it with my spanner and even with the LSC dialed to the minimum setting, it still felt hard.
    I then experimented with the pre load on the spring and had it at its minimal setting, hence all this now leads me to believe that mine came from the factory with the incorrect spring rate. I am going to order a 650lb steel spring and see how I go with that, once the settings are dialled, I will then post back with my settings.

    In hindsight, I think I may have gone for the fox DHX Coil. As CF once said, you don't need that much platform with the Helius. I think he is proving to be correct! The new softer spring will tell.

  3. #3
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    Hi Lorni, hope you are better. Can I suggest you e-mail Malcom at Cane Creek. He gave me a 450lb spring for my old FR set-up. You are only 30lb heavier so it sounds that you are running the wrong spring.......may be even less than 650lb? Whafe, what are you running and whats your weight?

  4. #4
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    Hey ryates, I have emailed Malcom at Cane Creek to find out the score with my spring. I really don't want to have to purchase more than one Ti spring. It does seem, that considering the 30lb weight difference between us that I may be running the shock well over sprung. I will await his response and post up my findings.

  5. #5
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    Ryates, on a separate note, I would love to hook up when the leg is repaired and have a look at your ST in the flesh. I think it's going to be a beautiful ride and I also wouldn't mind sizing it up as I believe that we are in the same region height wise. Be sure to post up the pics as it gets built as there is nothing better than 'bike porn'.

  6. #6
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    Yep, for sure I will do this.......will be a few weeks.....still in a cast for two more weeks or so.....nearly got all the bits for the build.....I'm going to use Totem Solo Airs/Formula Ones/XTR E13 dual/Big Betty's/ CCDB/Burgtec and Thomson stuff......just looking at wheels....may be new Deemax or I9 with Mavic 721/729 or DT 5.1/6.1 rims or Burgtec hubs with Mavic/DT rims? Just doing some research on this now. I will probably concentrate on CC build first which is sorted...just shifting stuff over from the old FR except for the fork, which might be an 09 Vanilla 15mm bt or Magura Thor 20mm bt or RS revelation 20mm bt.? Thankfully I shifted my old Turner so this will help pay for some of the new kit.

  7. #7
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    I am also in the process of moving frames. I made a fatal mistake on the sizing issues of the FR. I ordered the XL in January this year. I have it set up with a 50mm stem and still it doesn't feel right. It feels long and high if that makes any sense. I just can't get on with it in the air, but for all day rides such as skyline at afan, it feels great, but it's not where I intend my riding to be.
    Hence an order will be going in next month for a new FR in Large. Will go for the 1.5 head tube and a new fork. Trying to decide between the 36 Van or RS Totem solo air. With the later, I can use the spacer to run them at 160mm for UK trips but then open them up to 180mm for any trips abroad.

    So, if you know anybody in the market for an XL FR in jungle cammo, please point them my way. Can't wait to get the frame, build it up and ride it! Ryates, where abouts in UK are you my friend?

  8. #8
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    The large should be ok for you....Whafe is the same height and he rides that size.....also my old 05 FR which is XL but has a t/t of 615 (as opposed to your 07/08 XL which is 625) is fine for me with a 50 or 65 stem. 1.5 h/t is a good idea. What about 12mm Maxle rear? Fork choice is difficult....I hear 09 Vans are really good....but also great reports on 09 Totems. Did you know that you can now get them in white, as well as black and galv. I got a deal on some 08's in galv.(£500). Have you thought of placing an ad. here for your old frame? I'm in London...and you're in Chicksands?.....so easy to hook-up sometime.

  9. #9
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    Yes, I live about 20 minutes up the A1 from Chicksands, at Brampton, so when we are both fixed, we should hook up. The frame will have the 12mm maxle rear, as my XL has, I wouldn't be without it. I am interested in the white totems, but not sure if it's the solo airs in that colour, I was thinking more of the black as my new frame is going to be white.
    I may very well advertise the frame on here. I am a little reluctant to use 'e bay' as I am not in a hurry for it to go, would rather it went to a good home. I haven't a clue how much used FR's go for second hand, in fact I haven't seen any being sold. Have already ordered syncros DS 28 rims so already getting some of the parts for the build, although still unsure of the stem. Probably go for the sunline at 65mm.

  10. #10
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    Lorni - Sorry, bit of a thread hijack but I'd highly recomend the coil RS Totem for your new FR. I previously ran a pair of 36 Van RC2s but the Totems feel just right on the 2008 frame. I also think that someone of your weight would get on better with a coil fork and the coil Totem is only a little bit heavier than the solo air. There's a good write up on the Totems in this months MBR.

    This is mine in Spain last week. The forks were just fantastic, very plush.

  11. #11
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    Hey Yetiman, no problems, it's always good to hear other options. Your FR looks the dogs danglies, what weight is it coming in at with the totems and the seatpost?
    I have also been thinking about the coils, wasn't worried so much about the weight, but the climbing ability at 180mm, that said, I know Karve runs his solo airs without a spacer and he says they climb well on the FR.

    I must admit, my Lyriks were the first coils I owned and I love them, but need the 1/5 steerer for the new frame. Will look into it further I think, I love the feel of a coil spring but also think that air forks have come on some way in recent years, especially with the 09' kit.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornibear
    I know Karve runs his solo airs without a spacer and he says they climb well on the FR.
    Yep cant be arsed to lower them.. i love them at 180 even if its riding Epping singletrack which is flatter than kate moss's chest. Climbing is totally fine on them

  13. #13
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    Hi Karve, I think you run a CCDB on your FR. Could you let us have some feedback about what you found to be the best settings or the general direction of setting up this shock? Also, I am going to use Totem Solo Airs on my ST......how are you finding them?

    Thanks.

  14. #14
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    Lorni, the 09 Totem now comes in white, black and galvanised in three versions: Solo Air, Coil and Coil IS? Anybody know about this new coil version? IS stands for integrated speedstack.

    Did you say your new FR is white.....nice......I like. What colour are your levers and decals?
    Last edited by loamranger; 09-15-2008 at 01:00 PM.

  15. #15
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    Hi Yetiman, the black FR looks great with the Black Totem. Where abouts have you been riding in Spain......any recommendations?

    Cheers.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryates
    Hi Karve, I think you run a CCDB on your FR. Could you let us have some feedback about what you found to be the best settings or the general direction of setting up this shock? Also, I am going to use Totem Solo Airs on my ST......how are you finding them?

    Thanks.
    I actually started a thread on this aaaaaages ago with a fair bit of detail

    CCDB + DHX + other Coils - Helius Fr

    It really is trial and error... like this weekend i was doing some jumping and kept getting launched a bit over the bars... turned out i had tried to slow down low speed rebound and had accidentally turned it up! At the factory settings it feels like butta.... but u will find yourself thinking stuff like.. hmm im bottoming out a bit soon... or i wonder if i can make those roots feel more supple after a while.. then the fiddling begins.

    Fit it stock.. then if you want it to feel different then post up and im sure we can tell you how to achieve it.. thats the beauty of the CCDB which no other shock can replicate.. everything is adjustable
    Last edited by Karve; 09-15-2008 at 03:09 PM.

  17. #17
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    Hey Ryates, I will be ordering the frame next month. Its going to be white with black decals and black levers with 1.5 headtube. I am going to start off with 15mm of spacers under the stem and just fettle until it feels right. It's more the length of the frame which is making me change. With the XL it allowed me to run a 50mm stem which gave a lovely effective top tube length, but the bike still felt like a barge both round corners and in the air. So the large is the way to go for me. Should hopefully have it just before christmas.

  18. #18
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    Lorni, hope you get your bike before Christmas......can't go wrong with white.....almost ordered this for my ST but with red levers and decals.....but I thought I would go for pale blue after seeing it on the website. Go white Totems to match.....great!

    Karve, thanks for the info.

  19. #19
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    Cool Lorni! Going with some gold glitter finish on a pearl white base? I'd go with white forks only if it's exactly the same type of white as the frame, otherwise it looks like crap, IMO of course .

    Muh, haven't used my Helius since I came back from the Alps two months ago . Should move back to England really, this time a bit more northerly.

  20. #20
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    Yeah sorry lads, bit slow on this thread...

    I too have a 450lbs spring on my CCDB, I weigh with gear on, around 92Kg's and the spring feels excellent.... So am thinking Lorni as ryates mentions, even the 650 spring may well be far to strong also....

    Malcolm at Cane Creek is real helpful and responds quickly for sure... Make contact...

    Lorni, the new colour scheme sounds great... Yeah ha, some sexy assed looking Helius FR's out there, well ION's too, and AM's... Well dam just pure sexy Nicolai's in general..
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  21. #21
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    Get back to England....

    Quote Originally Posted by Boozzz
    Cool Lorni! Going with some gold glitter finish on a pearl white base? I'd go with white forks only if it's exactly the same type of white as the frame, otherwise it looks like crap, IMO of course .

    Muh, haven't used my Helius since I came back from the Alps two months ago . Should move back to England really, this time a bit more northerly.
    Hi Boozzz, good to hear from you! How are the flat lands of the Netherlands? I am on the mend so will hopefully be fully back to the trails in the new year. Any time you want to come over for a weekends riding up North, let me know as I will be itching to get away. I think it's going to be plain old white with black forks for me, I kinda like the white virginial thing

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornibear
    Hi Boozzz, good to hear from you! How are the flat lands of the Netherlands? I am on the mend so will hopefully be fully back to the trails in the new year. Any time you want to come over for a weekends riding up North, let me know as I will be itching to get away. I think it's going to be plain old white with black forks for me, I kinda like the white virginial thing
    Flat lands of the NL are super boring. And the crazy thing is, if there's a fun element in a trail, like a small man made drop off, it gets taken out because too many people crash on it.

    So am now just mostly using my DJ bike to do some street style riding in Amsterdam: trying some tricks, and lots of drops to flat on concrete. Hopefully I'll be visiting a Dutch (well, actually it's Belgian I believe) bikepark soon. How soon depends on when I can get a ride down there/borrow my dad's car. Fullface helmet should arrive from CRC today, so at least in that respect I'm good to go. When I've been I'll post some pics.

    Good to hear your knee's getting there! Am definitely thinking of doing some riding in the UK, so would be cool to meet up again.

    Btw, plain white with black forks is very nice too, but still would love to see what a gold glitter+slightly creamy white finish would look like .

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boozzz
    but still would love to see what a gold glitter+slightly creamy white finish would look like .
    Harden up and go RAW, the best colour............
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  24. #24
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    Hi Whafe, would be interested to know your CCDB settings and by what route you got there.

    Cheers

  25. #25
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    Hi Lorni, based on what Whafe has just said, I would suggest a 500lb spring....worth trying?

  26. #26
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    m 185 kitted and I run a 500lb spring? = 33% sag

  27. #27
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    Well got the email I had been waiting for from Malcolm today, this is what he had to say:

    Alex,

    With a short stroke shock and an average leverage ratio of 2.93 you will get a high spring rate but, 650lb is where I would start. You are looking for a 30 to 35% sag range. An easy way to measure sag is move the bottom out bumper all the way up against the shock body takke all pre load off of the spring and then sit on the bike. Get off the bike and measure how much shaft is exposed from the top of the bumper to the shocks body. For 30% you should have 17mm of shaft.


    So I think I will order a 650lb spring but I am thinking I will end up with a 600lb. When I get the new frame it will be time to play.

  28. #28
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    Lorni, let us know how you get on....you might be right about 600lb? What settings are you running on the shock?

  29. #29
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    Well at present, I am running stock HSC and rebound but the LSC is minimum, which has lead me to the conclusion that it is way oversprung. I will order both the 600 & 650 and see what I like best. I don't suppose anybody knows the best way to get the spring off the shock do they? Would be kind of cool if the spring could be changed 'in the field' so to speak, that way you could notice the difference over the same runs in quick succession.

  30. #30
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    Lorni - You could change the spring in a field test (sounds very military like, just for you), need to remove the mounting bolt, then drop the shock out, wind out the thingy majingy that winds the spring in when setting sag etc... Wind off and pop in the new spring...

    I will work out the setting ryates when I ride tonight.... How I got there though, man I am a blonde non techy dork... Just played until it felt ok.... I dont even write down the settings... Love tech but havnt got round to being a techy on shocks..... If you want to know about Onions, I am your man..... LOL
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  31. #31
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    I know about fooken onions........they make your eyes water!

  32. #32
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    How is this for service, recieved another email from Malcolm at CC and he is posting me the 650lb spring to try. I am really impressed with the support and customer service that end.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornibear
    How is this for service, recieved another email from Malcolm at CC and he is posting me the 650lb spring to try. I am really impressed with the support and customer service that end.
    Yep, have to agree with you on that one, Malcolm has been super helpful to me also....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  34. #34
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    I agree.....he sent out new bushings to me FOC to convert FR to CC fiitings, in double quick time.....really impressive support.....thanks Cane Creek.

  35. #35
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    Hey Lorni, did you read the review of the Totem coil in mbr this month? I spoke to TF Tuned and they can convert my air version to coil and fit the 09 seals....might be an idea after trying the air's for a while? How's the knee?

  36. #36
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    I have decided not to go for the airs. I love the feeling of coil springs and am not too bothered about the extra 300g in weight. The knee is good. I did my first gym session three days ago on a circuit which included the recumbant bike, stationary bike, concept II rower and countless amounts of specific exercises. Then off to the pool to walk my lengths.

    It does make it sore, but I can feel it getting stronger each day, albiet I am still on 4g of paracetomol and 1200g of ibuprofen per day. The physios can't believe the progress, no crutches and no more limp. Things are looking up and should be on the bike in the next few weeks. Hows your injury?

  37. #37
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    Lorni, that's great news that you will be back riding soon. My fracture is taking a while longer unfortunately....it's a spiral fractue....the bottom of it is unified but still waiting for the top half...may take a few more months yet? I'm doing everthing possible to get fixed asap.

    Get the coil in white....all white looks great...like 5cotty's? The 09's have better seals by the way.

  38. #38
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    Yes, I agree. 5cotty's is a lovely bike. Not sure whether I like the black or the white forks yet. Any idea what the Totem IS is all about yet? Can't find any information on it.

  39. #39
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    Mentioned this to TFTuned and they believe the IS has a cheaper type of damper.....their advice was to go for the regular coil version.

  40. #40
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    Right, will do. I wonder if it may be worth buying the 08 totem and have the 09 seals put in? may just be cheaper to buy the 09 forks and be done with it.

  41. #41
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    I have 08 totem air

    Zero issues with the seals... i think most of the later 08s are fine

    Hey lorni im at Chicki this weekend.. is that near u ... feel free to pop down and give them an inspection if you need... ill post up actually and see if any other nics fancy coming and hanging out.

  42. #42
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    I may pop down and catch up, although I will be a spectator. Only 20 mins from Chicki and it would be good to get out and meet my nemesis once again. Karve, will you PM me timings etc of when you will be there?

  43. #43
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    I may pop down and catch up, although I will be a spectator. Only 20 mins from Chicki and it would be good to get out and meet my nemesis once again. Karve, will you PM me timings etc of when you will be there?

  44. #44
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    Lorni, I would go for the 09 straight off.....rrp is £690....but you probably can get a deal somewhere. My 08 airs cost around £550 and the cost of converting is around £150.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornibear
    I may pop down and catch up, although I will be a spectator. Only 20 mins from Chicki and it would be good to get out and meet my nemesis once again. Karve, will you PM me timings etc of when you will be there?
    Nice one...No worries im down Chickie on Sunday 11-3ish I guess. Not confirmed yet. Will probably know by Friday for sure. Happy to take a break and hang out a bit.. ill need the rest no doubt.

    Anyone else fancy it?

  46. #46
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    These are my current settings for CCDB on 05 FR:

    HSC stock (2 turns CW from fully out)
    HSR half turn CW from fully out
    LSC and LSR none (30 clicks out fully CCW)

    Don't know how I got there.....just kept trying diiferent settings over repeated runs....until it felt best....are these unusual or what you might expect for a sorted Horst Link bike?

  47. #47
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    if you are running hardly any LSC and HSC id suggest a lighter spring or less preload?

  48. #48
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    Hi Karve, I have a 450 spring which gives me 33 per cent sag with one turn of preload.....which I believe is ideal? Rider weight 200lbs. HSC is stock at 2 turns CW. Now the shock is going onto a CC do you think I should reset everything on stock and start fiddling again for the new bike?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryates
    Hi Karve, I have a 450 spring which gives me 33 per cent sag with one turn of preload.....which I believe is ideal? Rider weight 200lbs. HSC is stock at 2 turns CW. Now the shock is going onto a CC do you think I should reset everything on stock and start fiddling again for the new bike?

    Nah best way is just to whack it on and see how it feels... i mean as u know the beauty of the shock is that anything can be adjusted. The best way to set up a CCDB is riding and fiddling with it... shame they make you carry tools to do that but that is a different discussion!

  50. #50
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    Just found out that there is a special tool now available to make adjustments easier. Just e-mailed CC to find out more. Karve, there is an image of the tool in the Suspension Forum....unfortunately I don't know how to post this....can you do this?

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