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Thread: The B-Boxx

  1. #1
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    Good job! The B-Boxx

    With loads of talk about SRAM's Hammerschmidt, along with in ryates thread on the Hammerschmidt SRAM Hammerschmidt for ST?

    Here is some information from the Nicolai newsletter on the B-Boxx...... Exciting times ahead for sure.....

    After G-Boxx 1 and G-Boxx 2 Karl Nicolai is presenting his next ”coup de main”: The B-Boxx is a shiftable planetary gear that is mounted to a regular ISCG adapter and replaces the front derailleur. The B-Boxx is the first product of a co-operation in engineering between Karl Nicolai's company Universal Transmissions and the innovative German bike brand Bionicon. The B-Boxx target is to establish gearbox technology within the ranges of epic and all-mountain biking.

    By a simple push-button the biker can choose between two gears. The slow gear equates a crank turn with a 25 teeth sprocket and the force is transmitted directly. The faster gear multiplies each crank turn with a factor of 1,65 what equates a 41 teeth sprocket. During the development some extra attention was put on the aspect of shifting under full load. Like the G-Boxx 2 the B-Boxx is fitted with a patend magnetic activated free-wheel cogging, to make the shifting process smooth.

    The B-Boxx will be presented for first time at the Eurobike in September. The rollout is scheduled for 2010.









    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Some more info taken from the Bionicon Website

    Bionicon Partners with G-Boxx to produce the B-Boxx
    The problem of front derailleur position for full suspension bikes is as old as full suspension itself. Instead of concentrating on geometry, ride characteristics, optimum pivot placement and system integration, engineers have been forced to design frames around the front derailleur and its chainrings.
    Nicolai and Bionicon, the new generation of innovators in drive trains and variable suspension, have also faced these problems since their very beginnings. As a result, an intensive exchange of ideas began after Eurobike 2003 with the aim of finally eliminating the troublesome front derailleur.
    Kalle Nicolai’s company, UNIVERSAL TRANSMISSIONS GmbH (g-boxx.com), holds numerous patents covering alternative transmission systems for bicycle frames. BIONICON’s founder Andi Felsl has been a fan of his drivetrain concepts since their introduction in 2000, so it was a natural step to begin collaboration in 2004.
    BIONICON’s (bionicon.com) aim was to create a fully adjustable and comfortable enduro chassis with a bottom bracket based drivetrain which is accessible to the broad public by utilizing Nicolai’s G-BOXX-2 technology.
    Initially BIONICON’s task was to find an industrial partner outside the frame building industry to produce the G-BOXX. The first prototype from this co-operation was a Nicolai Nucleon featuring the Bionicon system and the G-BOXX. This bike is still ripping trails in Japan!
    However both partners were unhappy about the high weight of the system for “Enduro” and “All-mountain” use. Discussion centered more and more on whether the rear derailleur really had to be replaced, as is the case with the current G-BOXX system, or if similar performance could be achieved by retaining the rear derailleur and cassette. After several heated exchanges Kalle and Andi finally agreed on the key ingredients for our vision of biking:
    - Eliminate the front derailleur
    - Optimal position of pivot points for all rear suspension systems
    - Prevent chain from jumping off
    - Lowest gear must correspond to 22 / 34 tooth ratio of a derailleur transmission
    - Optimal climbing and highest degree of mechanical efficiency
    - Rear derailleur with shortest possible cage
    - Ergonomic handlebar shifting
    - Target weight 1.2 kg incl. crank arms
    - Can be fitted to “normal” frames with ISCG-mount
    - Q-Factor (pedal width) same as normal derailleur drivetrain
    - Maintain normal chain line
    The collaboration fits perfectly to the philosophy of both firms: never define yourself through the components made by other manufacturers, envision the future and solve problems through your own innovations, and don’t wait for or expect others to find solutions.
    So what is the B-BOXX all about? The B-BOXX is a fully enclosed, shiftable planetary drivetrain. It is mounted to the right hand side of the bottom bracket using a standard ISCG-fitting. A handlebar mounted push button allows the rider to choose between two gear ratios. The lower gear corresponds to that of a 22-25 tooth chainring; power is directly transferred. The higher gear multiplies every crank rotation by a factor of 1.65 and thus corresponds to a 36-41 tooth chainring. Shifting under power has been given close consideration throughout the development process. As with the G-B
    OXX-2 a patented magnetic activation of the freewheel teeth keeps B-BOXX shifting as smooth as possible. Those wishing to know more about this principle should look at the following video:
    http://www.g-boxx.com/videos/G-Boxx-...l_function.wmv
    Finally, after a long 4 ˝ year period of development we can present the B-BOXX at Eurobike 2008. Salvation for bikers and bike developers as well as a daily ride with a completely new dimension will follow in 2010.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Thanks, Whafe, for all that information. Looks like I could fit the B-Box to the Helius ST
    that I just bought, which is good news. Hammerschidt, won't fit according to Falco, for
    some reasons I'm not sure about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryates
    Thanks, Whafe, for all that information. Looks like I could fit the B-Box to the Helius ST
    that I just bought, which is good news. Hammerschidt, won't fit according to Falco, for
    some reasons I'm not sure about?
    Yes, the same went trough my mind too re the Hammerschmidt....

    I myself would prefer to work with the B-Boxx technology, am hoping these will fit directly onto the ST and FR's

    AM sure it would have been some interesting discussions with Nicolai and SRAM Europe, both companies working on similar technology....

    I already run a short cage rear der on the FR, this technology would make this work even better and could go even a shorter rear der.....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Yeh, would work great with the Ion ST. Just sent Falco another e-mail asking him to
    confirm that it will work on existing frames with an ISCG. Will let you know.

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    Sweet, be good information for all if us.... Time will provide more info...

    Speculation wise, it seems odd that the SRAM Hammerschimdt will not fit on current frames with ISCG tabs, but the B Boxx may well...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    - Target weight 1.2 kg incl. crank arms

    Blimey the 2009 HammerSchmidt AM 175mm is coming in at 1.6kg! thats a winner if that is a like for like weight

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karve
    Blimey the 2009 HammerSchmidt AM 175mm is coming in at 1.6kg! thats a winner if that is a like for like weight
    Yeah baby, if these early indications are correct, that is some quite some difference....

    Roll on this being commercial and available
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Falco just got back to me. He could not, at this stage, confirm that the B-Box could be
    fitted to existing frames. We will have to wait and see....

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    Thanks for the update on this... I am kinda thinking that this has all been rushed maybe, like Nicolai heard about the SRAM Hammers and boom had to react so to speak...

    I feel it will have to have the ability to be fitted to some existing frames. Or this could be a focus to move the technology onto other companies, of which am sure it is....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    B-Boxx at Interbike

    The first working Prototype will be shown in the Bionicon Booth at the Interbike Expo and the Out-Door Demo. Sorry no test rides yet but you will be able to see how well it works if you are there.
    ONE BIKE TO DO IT ALL

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    Quote Originally Posted by fergyrock
    The first working Prototype will be shown in the Bionicon Booth at the Interbike Expo and the Out-Door Demo. Sorry no test rides yet but you will be able to see how well it works if you are there.
    Thanks for replying, am sure too it will be shown at EuroBike too very soon, so will get some more feedback from there..... Jerk_Chicken & Crisillo will surely be going, they will be our eyes and ears.....

    Looks to be some exciting technology though...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    Thanks for replying, am sure too it will be shown at EuroBike too very soon, so will get some more feedback from there..... Jerk_Chicken & Crisillo will surely be going, they will be our eyes and ears.....

    Looks to be some exciting technology though...
    Yes, it will be at EuroBike also, in both (I believe) the Nicolai and Bionicon Booths.

    And, Yes it is a cool development, we are very excited. Personally I am intrigued by the advancements in suspension design that are possible when you are not limited by traditional shifting.

    IMHO, One advantage of the B-Boxx over the SRAM HS that I can see right now is that the outer ring will be in a 34 or 36 as opposed to the 24. The bigger ring will work better with existing suspension designs and pivot placements, as far as feedback and effecting the function of the suspension goes, but the clearance of the HS is definately a cool thing.
    Also the bigger unit should allow for smoother shifting, less noise and possibly more gear ratios in the future.
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    If there is anybody going to EuroBike, could you please try to find out about compatibility with existing ISCG Nicolai frames/ prices/weights, and post here. Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryates
    If there is anybody going to EuroBike, could you please try to find out about compatibility with existing ISCG Nicolai frames/ prices/weights, and post here. Cheers.
    Good point.... I mentioned further above in a previous post that I know for a fact that Jerk_Chicken and Crisillo are going to EuroBike.

    JC is a tech dude, so am sure he will get plenty of bully for us and pictures etc....

    JC, may you ask specifically the deal with existing frames with ISCG tabs if we will be able to retrofit etc.... Thanks in advance...
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tfj77/page77/

    Link to page of photos from Eurobike of B-Boxx.

  17. #17
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    Thread revival

    Great shots. I gotta say the crank arms look a long stronger than Sram's variants.

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    ... any news on the b-boxx?
    (waiting, desperately ...)

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    Bump! Any updates?

  20. #20
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    Nope, awaiting financial backing/funding before it can reach production.

    On the back burner and unlikely to make it to market IMOH

    see
    http://www.singletrackworld.com/2010...kalle-nicolai/

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