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  1. #1
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    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?

    If so what's it like?
    I was under the impression that the first batch would be out by now but have not heard any reports from anyone.

  2. #2
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    Sdr08 is waiting patiently(if sending me sarcastic texts on the subject qualifies as patience!) for his and it was first batch I believe
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

    flash bikes for flash gits

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    Quote Originally Posted by dipper View Post
    Sdr08 is waiting patiently(if sending me sarcastic texts on the subject qualifies as patience!) for his and it was first batch I believe
    Hahaha......I forgot I ordered one!

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    Have they given you any indication when you are likely to receive it?

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    May... i wait for an AM and AC ;-)

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    You have ordered two?!

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    I've been told it could be May as well but I'm not holding my breath.

    Cyril, 2 bikes? Dipper never said I could order 2 bikes . Mind you he said I couldn't even order one......so I did .

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    29ers Cyril or 26 or 650b. I've had enough pain and anguish over the geometry of my one!
    Aka chainline...

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    and everything is in May.....believe it when I see it.
    Aka chainline...

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    Are there any plans for an AC pinion?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ludwig1 View Post
    Are there any plans for an AC pinion?
    Quote from Nic UK on the AM Pinion thread:

    "Nicolai say you can order almost any model with Pinion. Might take a while but since the suspenion design doesn't change they'll just be working with an alternative bottom bracket/box assembly."

  12. #12
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    It's not for me, I have 2 customers for these frame and my Pinion come later in september so it will be quit diffrent ;-)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyril_88 View Post
    It's not for me, I have 2 customers for these frame and my Pinion come later in september so it will be quit diffrent ;-)
    "different".........Tell us more?

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    A pinion AC for enduro race in 150mm ;-)

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    Referring to an up-to-date short communication by Vincent STOYHE, the roll-out of all PINION equipped NICOLAI frames will delay at least until mid-August 2012. He told that a major supplier of PINION cannot keep the scheduled date of delivery, unfortunately. So, keep in mind: Good things come to those who wait.

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    Yikes! I feel for everyone who's been waiting.

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    To make the waiting less painfully: a bunch of exciting nude ИICOLAI frames anticipating the mating with a PINION P1.18 unit each.

    MTB-News.de | IBC Mountainbike Forum
    Last edited by Whafe; 05-11-2012 at 10:36 PM.

  18. #18
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    Oh now that sucks, I've been really looking forward to gearbox frames, hopefully this isn't the last we hear of it

  19. #19
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    This gear box is the better one i never use! we wait for a greak job!

    two little Video of my first ride with this AM Pinion





    Sorry for the sun so I can ride it a very short time



    the frame are waiting for Pinion gear box....

  20. #20
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    Cyril, How did you manage to get your hands on one? Is that a pre-production demo bike?

    Great video. Thanks for sharing.

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    I orgenize demo days after the Roc d'Azur then i have the chance to have the AM Pinion prototype.

    You can see the picture of the WE Journées Test NICOLAI Oct. 2011 | Facebook






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    Thats very nice.

    will have an AC pinion one day
    Last edited by norcosam; 05-27-2012 at 12:31 PM.

  23. #23
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    I don't know if you already see this video here, so....
    Fahrbericht Pinion / Nicolai Helius AM - IBC-TV auf MTB-News.de

  24. #24
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    Shifting noise of a PINION P1.18 pre-production unit:

    PINION P1.18 shifting noise (pre-production unit)

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm6 View Post
    Shifting noise of a PINION P1.18 pre-production unit:

    PINION P1.18 shifting noise (pre-production unit)
    In fact there is no noise

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm6 View Post
    Shifting noise of a PINION P1.18 pre-production unit:

    PINION P1.18 shifting noise (pre-production unit)
    How well does it shift under load? It looks like you are soft pedalling when shifting in the video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979@optusnet.com.au View Post
    How well does it shift under load? It looks like you are soft pedalling when shifting in the video.
    You can change gear under load, so not at full load it's normal, then you feel it in the twister.

  28. #28
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    Pinion review posted on Pinkbike today:

    Pinion P1.18 Gearbox: First Ride - Pinkbike

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by springfish View Post
    Pinion review posted on Pinkbike today:

    Pinion P1.18 Gearbox: First Ride - Pinkbike
    THX a lot for the link! Maybe you know that Falco MILLE who supervises the discussion of the PinkBike article is responsible for the PINION brand communication meanwhile since he left the NICOLAI GmbH as their really great former PR assistant.

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    Some clarifying remarks of Falco MILLE (cited from the above Pinkbike article/discussion):

    "Having the premiere test of the P1.18 on Pinkbike was something we had been planning for a long time, but it was the final 2012 production version that was supposed to be tested, not the pre-production version from 2011 Matt was riding. We were supposed to get the P1.18 into regular production at the beginning of May - as we were timing it on the delivery dates our suppliers assured us of. The internal P1.18 parts are produced by different German automotive suppliers and one of them admitted a delay in production of three months on short notice, which came as a surprise to us. The part was that important and challenging that we couldn't change the supplier. The bad news reached us when the date for the test-ride with Pinkbike was already set and we seriously considered cancelling it. The shifting performance under load is an important issue when riding a Pinion-equipped bike, and it is the major improvement we made from the pre-production version of the Alutech Fanes test-bike to the final version. We have completely redesigned the ratchet braces inside the freewheel that are responsible for a smooth and well-defined shifting process. As Matt has pointed out correctly, you can't shift the P1.18 from a long gear to a short gear under full load. That's not the problem. You can't do it with a hub gear either nor from a bigger to a smaller front sprocket with a derailleur system. You need to diminish the load for a split second. On this pre-production version of the P1.18 you can shift under full load from a shorter to a longer gear and with the final version of the P1.18 the shifting from long to short will significantly be improved under part load. The first P1.18 serial gear boxes will now be shipped to the bike manufacturers at the beginning of August."

    "Pinion manufacturer notes
    ... Pinion is not a one product brand. The P1.18 is our initial product that is best for enduro and all mountain riding. The P1.18 is based on a platform technology that allows different gear sets. A Pinion gear box with a reduced downhill or freeride gear ratio is planed, also an 8-speed gear box e-motor unit, a light-weight or a budget version. ..."

    "Maintenance and Service:
    The Pionion P1.18 is a low maintenance drive and this is one main advantage compared to a derailleur system. An oil change is recommended in annual intervals and can easily be done even by riders with substandard mechanical skills. Changing cables or the front sprocket is easy too. A service manual will be available with the product release. The internal gear assembly itself is rated for endurance strength. We warrant a service life of at least 40.000 miles. In the unlikely event of a internal damage the Pinion P1.18 can be replaced within minutes, as it is mounted to the frame by only three bolts. For repairs or replacement we are establishing a modern service network, including bike manufacturers, distributors, service centers and dealers. Service and replacement for Pinion bikes will be as comfortable as known from derailleur or IHG bikes."

    "Shifter:
    The cable length that is needed to shift 18 gears in a row does not allow a common thumb shifter design. We are aware that many riders (including myself) are averse to grip shifters, as we might know them from some bad riding experience back in the nineties. So we really put some effort in designing a better grip shifter, excluding the known disadvantages. May be you give it a try. Besides we are working on an alternative solution. Hydraulic, mechanical or electric – we are checking all options."

    "We are checking different shifter options, also for future gear boxes with less gears, but by now it's too early to publish any forecasts. We've not done any research on automatic shifting."

    "The P1.18 design provides a good ground clearance. Nevertheless the serial version will come with a mounting options for an upper chain guide and a bash guard."

    "Weight:
    As the Pinion P1.18 is not a regular add-on part you can't compare its weight directly with the weight of a derailleur system. The P1.18 is replacing some other bike parts like rear sprocket, derailleurs and shifters and is also integrating a BB shell, bearings, axle and cranks.The stand alone weight of the complete Pinion P1.18 system is 2.7 kg. This makes an additional weight of a bit less than a Kilogram compared to a complete bike with a high-end 3 x 9 derailleur drive. - But with a low and centered mass and a lighter rear wheel."

    "More Shifting:
    With the Pinion rotary shifter both individual and multiple gear shifts can be made with split-second precision. The indexing of the shifting is at the gearbox so unaffected by damaged or stretched cables or cable housings."


  31. #31
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    Looking forward to seeing 1 of these

  32. #32
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    NICOLAI Helius AM PINION P1.18, Chain Tensioner

    The latest release of the PINION P1.18 chain tensioner for now:


  33. #33
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    The lines are so clean and pure.... Yummy
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  34. #34
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    A derailleur hangar mounted chain tensioner looks much better afaik.

  35. #35
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    But I *suspect* this is more effective. Running Rohloff I on a full sus I definitely need some sort of front guide to prevent chain loss on rough ground. It's a problem on every descent, and probably no more of a problem than a conventional set of gears, but still unsatisfactory. The Pinion tensioner greatly increases the wrap on the chainring which should be enough to deal with chain loss.
    Simon Still
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  36. #36
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    A derailleur hangar mounted chain tensioner looks much better afaik.
    But is more likely to get damaged and adds to the unsprung weight.

  37. #37
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    I wouldn't run a Rohloff in a full-susser again either, but I've seen Pinions with (Rohloff) chain tensioners and they definitely looked cleaner. The unsprung weight of the tensioner is negligible.

    However, if I wanted to ride a integrated gear box bike, I'd go for the Nucleon.

  38. #38
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    That looks good,only worry would be mud clogging in it.

  39. #39
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    Latest entry (posted today) by NICOLAI at FB:



    Yummy ...

  40. #40
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    Someone is going to be happy soon.

    Thought the Gearboxes were delayed to September

  41. #41
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    Hopefully that ano green one is for my frame. They said 28th of this month! Excited

  42. #42
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    If you zoom in and look very closely I'm sure you can see my name on one of them!

    I live in hope anyway .

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    Hopefully that ano green one is for my frame. They said 28th of this month! Excited
    Hope so for you aswell mate.

    Looks sweet

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdr08 View Post
    If you zoom in and look very closely I'm sure you can see my name on one of them!

    I live in hope anyway .


    You will see it's a great bike

  45. #45
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    Looks more than sweet, looks like a whole lotta yumminess
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Caution! Hold on!

    Even moar yummieness: beautiful ИICOLAI Helius AM PINION. One of the very first production frames that was delivered today to Heidelberg/Baden-Wuerttemberg. Pics courtesy of guru39.




  47. #47
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    The wait just got harder!

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    Prettiness in Green anodized + Titan anodized:







    Courtesy of guru39.

  49. #49
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    Green ano looks, well the word is appropriate here, awesome.

    Can't get used to the slim fork crown and oversized head tube though. I'm curious what the weight will be in the end.

  50. #50
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    Dam sexy ano green frame, exactly that in a 29er would be perfect for me....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  51. #51
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    There is 2 baby for my shop ;-)

    Picture 1 - AC Pinion
    Picture 2 - AM Pinion
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-256325_456120671085767_842021731_o.jpg  

    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-620950_456120531085781_169342358_o.jpg  

    Last edited by Whafe; 08-16-2012 at 04:57 PM.

  52. #52
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    Mon Dieu, n'est-ce pas magnifique? My God, is that not beautiful?

  53. #53
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    I'm waiting for the "I smell sex and candy"!

  54. #54
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    The AM color combination is sick - super idea!

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    Wow is all i can say

  56. #56
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    There's been a new arrival!

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    ИICOLAI Ion 18 PINION, Bright White gloss powdercoated:

    Courtesy of drurs.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-original_ion18_pinion_02.jpg  

    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-original_ion18_pinion_03.jpg  

    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-original_ion18_pinion_08.jpg  

    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-original_ion18_pinion_09.jpg  

    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-original_ion18_pinion_10.jpg  

    Last edited by Whafe; 08-16-2012 at 05:03 PM.

  58. #58
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    Stunning bike....
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  59. #59
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    For the love of the little donkey that carried the virgin mary, would ya go on!

    That is stunning. The gloss white really suits the lines and form.

  60. #60
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    FUNK ME thats nice!!! loving that they've moved the chain tensioner to the cranks instead of at the back. Hmmmmmmmmmm now thats just thrown all my new bike plans up in the air!!

  61. #61
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    Wow, nice ride! But does the chain still need some shortening?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midgetman View Post
    Wow, nice ride! But does the chain still need some shortening?
    Of course. As durus told that built-up was provisionally, just to take some first pics for curious forum users.

    A more proper chain set-up that dosen´t look as much weird:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-original_dsc_0032.jpg  

    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-original_dsc_0035.jpg  

    Last edited by Whafe; 08-16-2012 at 04:54 PM.

  63. #63
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    Dam, just had a wet dream...... Seriously seriously beautiful piece of kit!
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Very nice. Looking forward to hearing how the Pinion holds up over the long term.
    Don't forget to fix the crank arm alignment prior to your first ride on the white bike.

    Eric

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    That look absolutely stunning,

    We all need a 1st ride report.

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    Does anyone know what size rear axle is required for the Helius AM Pinion...the tech sheet isn't up on their website yet. Thanks in advance.

  67. #67
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    I must admit I could get used to that BB mounted chain tensioner.

  68. #68
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    They look so so nice, however, mine might be a no go because there is a 100kg rider weight limit!

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    Quote Originally Posted by irban_bike View Post
    Does anyone know what size rear axle is required for the Helius AM Pinion...the tech sheet isn't up on their website yet. Thanks in advance.
    135 mm / 12 mm

  70. #70
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    Specified weights:
    1. green Helius AM, complete build-up (see pics) 16,6 kg (guru39)
    2. white Ion 18, complete build-up (see pics) 18,5 kg (drurs)


    Part list of the white Ion 18 (courtesy drurs)


  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by irban_bike View Post
    Does anyone know what size rear axle is required for the Helius AM Pinion...the tech sheet isn't up on their website yet. Thanks in advance.
    it will be also available in 12x142mm.

  72. #72
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    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

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    Is it a trick of the light, or is that a ZS44/ZS56 head tube on that white Ion 18?

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    Quote Originally Posted by irban_bike View Post
    Does anyone know what size rear axle is required for the Helius AM Pinion...the tech sheet isn't up on their website yet. Thanks in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm6 View Post
    135 mm / 12 mm
    Quote Originally Posted by cyril_88 View Post
    it will be also available in 12x142mm.
    Of course, ИICOLAI offers both rear axle standard options for the Helius AM PINION (same for traditional Helius AM): 12x135mm | 12x142mm.

    ALUTECH offers both these options for the Fanes Allmountain PINION, too (same for the traditional Fanes Allmountain).

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    Is it a trick of the light, or is that a ZS44/ZS56 head tube on that white Ion 18?
    Given the headset type "RESET WAN.5 Shorty" (S.H.I.S. ZS49/28.6 | ZS49/30) is specified correctly in drurus´ part list, the headtube should be S.H.I.S. ZS49 | ZS49.

  76. #76
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    I'd get that chain a few links shorter. I reckon you want the tensioner as near to horizontal as possible.
    Simon Still
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    www.nicolai-uk.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai-uk View Post
    I'd get that chain a few links shorter. I reckon you want the tensioner as near to horizontal as possible.
    I would have hoped that they would have removed the Coil from the shock and checked that the tensioner has enough to take the chain length reduction under full compression of rear end.

  78. #78
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    Weight of the above black anodized Helius AM PINION, including ROCK SHOX Monarch Plus 216 x 63 mm (8,5 x 2,5”) 6,96 kg (guru39).

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    The white Ion 18 PINION (drurus) once again, now with a more refined build-up including a shortened chain.

    I have hoped that he would have got the chain even some links shorter. He told that he would like to play with the gearing (chainring/sprocket) yet.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-original_ion18_pinion_13.jpg  

    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-original_ion18_pinion_14.jpg  

    Last edited by Whafe; 08-16-2012 at 05:06 PM.

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    ИICOLAI Helius AM PINION, blue anodized. Weight, including BOS Vip´R 216 x 64 mm: 6,9 kg (OssiOskar).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-1-original_p1010013.jpg  

    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-1-original_p1010015.jpg  

    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-1-original_p1010016.jpg  

    Last edited by Whafe; 08-17-2012 at 02:06 PM.

  81. #81
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    Mine arrived on Friday and needs a couple of bits to finish but here's the progress so far:

    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-am-pinion-1.jpg

    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-am-pinion-2.jpg

    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-am-pinion-3.jpg

    Spec might change a bit over the next few days but it's not far off.

    I suppose it's time to let my old AM go now .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-am-pinion-4.jpg  


  82. #82
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    sdr,
    Beautiful.
    Is that the frame weight? What did your full build come out to weigh?
    Thanks,

    Eric

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    Amazing !!!!

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugbyred View Post
    sdr,
    Beautiful.
    Is that the frame weight? What did your full build come out to weigh?
    Thanks,

    Eric
    You'll need to ignore the last pic of the weight (user error!). I was going to post a picture of the current unfinished weight but I uploaded the wrong picture which I then tried to delete but obviously never. The current weight with Fox RP23 is just over 33lb and I think the only thing missing is handlebar grips.

  85. #85
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    That's looking good... looking forward to reading your thoughts on it.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepimpmessiah View Post
    That's looking good... looking forward to reading your thoughts on it.
    I ain't telling you nothing..........you could meet me at Scolty Hill and try it for yourself though .

  87. #87
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    Another wet dream for me
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdr08 View Post
    I ain't telling you nothing..........you could meet me at Scolty Hill and try it for yourself though .
    report???

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyril_88 View Post
    report???
    Nothing to report here. The bikes almost ready but I need to find a couple of 0.5mm shims for the rear sprocket.

    Here's the finished weight:
    Anyone got a Helius Pinion AM yet?-am-pinion-weight.jpg

    Hopefully I'll get out for a pedal this weekend .

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    Very respectable weight for a bike that should take a beating and get you back to the top easily.

    Eric

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    I was thinking "thats light" when thinking of my fight with my AM to get it below 31.5lb but then I saw no adjustable post yet...looks nice and clean, I like it alot. Too heavy for me but I like it alot.
    Aka chainline...

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    Be carefull on some Pinion gear box there is a mistake on lock ring (3) assembly, on some exemple this lock ring is in the wrong way.

    on the pictire below the lock ring is in the wrong side


    on this picture you can see the difference


    the results is that the lock ring make a lot of friction on the arm of the crank, you have just to follow the manual to make the correction and put it correctly.

    On this forum the green ano is in this case, and also th ion 18, i receive both frame and it's the case for both, verify it before your first ride ;-).
    Last edited by cyril_88; 08-16-2012 at 07:20 AM.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyril_88 View Post
    Be carefull on some Pinion gear box there is a mistake on lock ring (3) assembly, on some exemple this lock ring is in the wrong way.
    On this forum the green ano is in this case, and also th ion 18, i receive both frame and it's the case for both, verify it before your first ride ;-).
    Thanks for the information. That'll explain the problem I've got with mine but before I could even complain I had an email from Dipper telling me that the tool and parts were in the post. Here's hoping they arrive soon .
    Last edited by Whafe; 08-16-2012 at 05:13 PM.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    I was thinking "thats light" when thinking of my fight with my AM to get it below 31.5lb but then I saw no adjustable post yet...looks nice and clean, I like it alot. Too heavy for me but I like it alot.
    Yeah I haven't bothered fitting my adjustable post yet, I just wanted to see how light I could get it with what I had lying around the garage and I don't think it's a bad weight considering my other AM ended up on the wrong side of 34lb once I fitted the Hammerschmidt. The weight is ideal for it's intended purpose (Gravity Enduro) and I have my AC for trail duties.

    I don't think it would be too hard to get the bike down to 32lb with lighter tyres and swapping my heavy V2's for Formula The One's or RO brakes but it would be a struggle to go any lighter.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdr08 View Post
    Mine arrived on Friday and needs a couple of bits to finish but here's the progress so far ...
    sdr08,

    what really tasty build-up that black anodized AM.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdr08 View Post
    Yeah I haven't bothered fitting my adjustable post yet, I just wanted to see how light I could get it with what I had lying around the garage and I don't think it's a bad weight considering my other AM ended up on the wrong side of 34lb once I fitted the Hammerschmidt. The weight is ideal for it's intended purpose (Gravity Enduro) and I have my AC for trail duties.

    I don't think it would be too hard to get the bike down to 32lb with lighter tyres and swapping my heavy V2's for Formula The One's or RO brakes but it would be a struggle to go any lighter.
    I worked out a build for Dipper that was 32lb, so it is possible. I have my AC/AM29 for Gravity Enduro but certainly the Pro's I was doing in Italy it was tough with the AM at 31.5lbs. which was my final HS equipped weight. I still like the HS alot but I dont think i can take the 2lb hit over my 1x10 setup. I use mine for everything so it has to be light but strong. I'm happy with 28lb.

    I'll either fit a 28t front cog to my crank or go Sram XX1 I think.

    Lots of advantages to the Pinion I acknowledge though.
    Aka chainline...

  97. #97
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    Come on people - where are the ride reports?

    I'm thinking that weight is really positive - I think my AC Rohloff is right around there so an AC Pinion could easily com in at the same weight. I'm thinking DT rear singlespeed hub now, which can be converted to 12mm.
    Simon Still
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    www.nicolai-uk.com

  98. #98
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    Totally agree Simon

    And with the Pinion compared to the Rohloff, the weight is low and in the centre of the bike, whole lotta yeah ha on that...

    Ride reports peeps, come on now!


    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai-uk View Post
    Come on people - where are the ride reports?

    I'm thinking that weight is really positive - I think my AC Rohloff is right around there so an AC Pinion could easily com in at the same weight. I'm thinking DT rear singlespeed hub now, which can be converted to 12mm.
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai-uk View Post
    Come on people - where are the ride reports?.
    We're all waiting on a lock-nut tool!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdr08 View Post
    We're all waiting on a lock-nut tool!

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