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Thread: Am Shows Up

  1. #1
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    Am Shows Up

    So the AM finally makes it's apperance very impressed.

    Let me do set up first.

    MED BLACK ANODIZED AM
    REAR SHOCK CCDB 550 TI SPRING
    FRONT FORK FOX 36 FLOAT RC2
    HEAD SET CHRIS KING
    BRAKES HOPE MONO MINI
    FDER XTR
    RDER X9
    WHEELS I9 ENDURO
    CRANKS XTR WITH E THIRTEEN GUIDE
    SEATPOST TOMPSON MASTERPIECE
    STEM THOMPSON 31.8
    HANDLE BARS FSA 190
    SHIFTER SRAM XO
    CASSETE SRAM 990
    TIRES SWALBE NOBBY NICKS

    WEIGHT 30.5

    So i set bike up at the 150 setting in rear front set at 143 the bike was awful to steep of a head angle bike was very twitchey and not stable for me.

    So i set the rear at 160 and changed the fork to 163 much better steepend the bike and felt much more stable I like this setting the bike felt the best to me in this setting.

    The ride. This bike is so well design it is like everthing you would expect from a Nicolai.
    The bike climbs great especially in technical climbing descends great and is very stable in what you throw at it now this not a hucker bike in my opion that would be the FR. This frame is a little more refind. I would not be doing crazy drops or stunt with the AM I would leave that to the FR. But it is right at home in technical rocky terrain that not a problem at all.

    Now i want to clear something up dipper is right on this frame will not be under 30 pound unless you use a rear air shock i was a little taken back that it weights very close to what my FR weight but i have to say this bike rides light . I really thought i was going to be under 30 pound i was wrong. The other thing dipper is right about it the CCDB IS THE REAR SHOCK FOR THIS BIKE!

    The bike does pedal effortless doesn't seem to feel like you using alot of effort.

    Something off base alittle bit running nobby nicks and seem to be getting alot of flats is anyone else experience this and what is everyone running for air preasure i am running around 38 to 40 pounds.

    Will keep updating as i get more time.
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  2. #2
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    Jiiiiiiiihaaaa, boy that's a nice ride.




    Edit: Just took a closer look at your parts-list and the 30 pound mark. That will be a tough one to knock down, even with an air shock. I mean, you've already choosen very light parts, the tires as you say yourself may be even a tiny bit to light and still didn't make it sub30.

    But that beauty is still very light at 30.5lbs or 13,8348 kg's .
    Last edited by Testmaen; 09-21-2008 at 04:00 PM.

  3. #3
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    I concur, a nice ride indeed. The red and black certainly looks the business. Congrats and enjoy.

  4. #4
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    Thanks guys the color combo is different for me but i like it alot.Testmaen I think you could take almost another pound with the air shock but why would you.

  5. #5
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    nice ride ncig ...

    what stroke length are you using for your CCDB? will the rear tyre hit the seat post at full compression?

    i noticed that you mentioned that the head tube angle changes as you change the mounting for the rear shock ... maybe it is because you have your fork set at 143mm

    i noticed on my AM that the BB does not increase or decrease in height from the ground ie no change in head tube angle when i switch from the highest rear travel setting to the lowest ... on all 4 settings ... (fork length being constant)
    ie once you set the top mounting rear shock position at 200mm from the front mount, all the other 3 rear mounting positions are also at 200mm from the front ie they are all aligned on the same arc from the front bolt.

    just another thought ... if you change the rear shock mounting position, you are changing the leverage ratio and so for a coil shock you will effectively need a different spring to maintain the same sag ... i think i am right ... hopefully ...

  6. #6
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    Chinaman, I am glad you know what you are talking about...........as you have just baffled me!

  7. #7
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    chinaman you might be just right have not had the time to go over all of that. rear shock stroke is 57mm and no it has not hit seattube at all. you are right about spring rate i did change the spring to 450 in 150 setting. Right now the bike setup for me is perfect. Where do you have yours set at. Any help with tires?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncig
    Any help with tires?
    Do you get the flats on the same tire or front and rear about equally ? What inner-tubes do you use ? Are those standard Nobby Nics or the reinforced version ?

    I usually run 32-36psi on my hardtail an the Nonius and haven't had many flats so far. Your pressure is even higher, so that should't be the source, as you tend to use higher pressure to prevent pinches and reduce rolling resistance (on tarmac) and lower pressures for more traction and comfort.

  9. #9
    I bike long tyme.
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    Very nice!!
    Rear suspension design looks almost identical to a Chumba XCL....or vice versa.

  10. #10
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    Testmaen just the rear tire . I also have the snakeskin sidewalls to when i was running Kenda Nevagal wasn't getting flats.

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    Hi ncig, congrats.....first AM under 32lbs. The only way to reduce weight further would be to replace all the bolts to ti.... if you can be bothered......may be you would save half a pound? I like the red and black look...but please paint the fork black or red? I have been running 2.4 NN's with no probs. at 35 psi. What are your tubes.....have you checked inside of tyre for spikes or splinters?

  12. #12
    I bike long tyme.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinaman
    nice ride ncig ...

    just another thought ... if you change the rear shock mounting position, you are changing the leverage ratio and so for a coil shock you will effectively need a different spring to maintain the same sag ... i think i am right ... hopefully ...
    I would agree. I had a first generation Foes FXR that had adjustable travel in the rear. I would have to go up a spring rate to keep the sag dialed.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by lornibear
    Chinaman, I am glad you know what you are talking about...........as you have just baffled me!
    LOL ...

  14. #14
    wyrd bi ful rd
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncig
    ... chinaman ... Where do you have yours set at ... Any help with tires? ...
    i am using the second mounting position from the top ... for my coil shock and i have tried the second position from the bottom for my air shock ... will keep to my coil for awhile for now and swap over to the air shock after awhile ...

    20080825 rear shock mounting position MTBR FORUM.jpg

    i am using michelin mountain dry 2 (2.3") and with the shock mounting on the top position, and at full compression, the tyre comes really close to the top tube for my comfort ... less than 5mm ... but i have to admit that in the 1 year that i have used the tyre ... (touch wood: i know i am going to regret saying this) ... i have not had any punctures ... and i do roll over thorns, roots and stumps and rocks ... but i do not go below 35psi ...

  15. #15
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    ryates have checked nothing i am getting pinch flats which is wierd

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    So, ncig, if this is so close in weight to your FR, why go for an AM? I'm interested as I'm planning on going for an AM to compliment my CC. It'll replace my Nomad, which actually had that bit of extra travel making it closer to the FR.

  17. #17
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    Well I really thought it was going to be lighter then it came in at. I was wrong. Like I said before if you are going to huck and drop 5+ feet go with the FR if you want faster handling and and a spec lighter go AM you will not go wrong either way.

  18. #18
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    Nice looking bike ncig. I like the red and black scheme but white forks don't do it for me. They do seem to be very popular though. If you're having problems with the Nobby Nics I'd change the rear to something with a heavier sidewall like the Big Betty. I've been really impressed with them on my FR and will probably stick with them for everything except downhill days. Tyre choice is always a hot discussion point but I personally think that the NN is too light a tyre for a bike of this caliber and 35 -40 psi to me seems like overkill. That's xc hard tail pressures.

  19. #19
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    Nice and high-class bike! Don`t like so much the Mini's, but I'm 94 Kg.

    For messing up a little bit more with the tyres, I usually run wire High Rollers 2.35 (supertacky front, maxxpro rear) converted to tubeless with a mix of latex and water, mounted on my SX wheels.
    I do not recommend to make home-made tubeless in no-UST rims or in regular kevlar tyres, BTW. The faultess combination for me to "USTizing" is wire tyre and UST rim.

    For all condition riding, the HRs are perfect to me.

  20. #20
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    Maybe the new Fat Albert from Schwalbe could be interesting for you as well. Different tread pattern for front and rear, available in 2.4 and 2.25 and different versions (tubeless, double-defense).

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    Yup, the Fat Alberts are good also. I used the older 2.35 version on my hard tail for a while and didn't suffer any punctures.

  22. #22
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    There is an interesting post on the new Fat Albert 2.4 on the wheels and tyres forum:

    UST Fat Albert 2.4- anyone else using them?

  23. #23
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    Thanks for the link! Haven't read any impressions of the new FA's so far.

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    Thanks for all the advice going to try some other avenues and see what I come up with.
    Last edited by ncig; 09-23-2008 at 09:12 AM.

  25. #25
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    Chumba Xcl ?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Secace
    Very nice!!
    Rear suspension design looks almost identical to a Chumba XCL....or vice versa.
    Ya OK,,Nicolai just like Chumba sure bro what ever you say... .

  26. #26
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    Lorni, thanks for the link.....the FA's sound good.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZY FRED
    Ya OK,,Nicolai just like Chumba sure bro what ever you say... .

    Hey madman.....my post stated "suspension design".....not build quality, etc.
    Check the photo. Aside from the adjustable travel feature, there's no way you can't strike a remarkable resemblance. Closely spaced main pivot location, similar dropout pivot, a mirrored linkage system and shock mounting location.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZY FRED
    Ya OK,,Nicolai just like Chumba sure bro what ever you say... .

    Actually, the new Chumbas are even more similar than the previous models with a relocated rear shock mounting point. Great minds think alike.
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  29. #29
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    NCIG - Bike looks great. Weight is not too bad. I am still struggling to get my head around things comparing the FR to the AM..... I mean from a similar weight view point.

    For sure the handling will be vastly different.

    Having 5 models of Helius's leaves me feeling at times that there is some overlap.

    I really like using a Big Betty on the front, great tire, I dont really worry too much about the rear, I am one of those non techy peeps, if the front goes around the corner etc, the rear will follow... LOL

    AM keen to hear how you like this bike on a few more rides in your area. (and would love to ride your area again, great riding to be had)
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  30. #30
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    Madman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Secace
    Hey madman.....my post stated "suspension design".....not build quality, etc.
    Check the photo. Aside from the adjustable travel feature, there's no way you can't strike a remarkable resemblance. Closely spaced main pivot location, similar dropout pivot, a mirrored linkage system and shock mounting location.
    Bro you don't know the half of it..Lesson to the wise never EVER use the word Chumba and NICOLAI in the same sentence... Man the nerve of some people...

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRAZY FRED
    Bro you don't know the half of it..Lesson to the wise never EVER use the word Chumba and NICOLAI in the same sentence... Man the nerve of some people...
    Your condescending tone aside, the fact remains that the suspension designs are basically duplicates of one another. Anyone with even one operable cornea through an incorrect lens prescription could see that. Even a die-hard Nicolai devotee that is blinded by the Nicolai goodness. Even someone that doesnt know the half of it. Even someone that owns the nerve.

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    Thanks Whafe, when I put it on the scale I was like wow. But I will say that THE BIKE RIDES VERY LIGHT! What I mean from that is it is quick as a whip maybe to quick but stable. Like i said earlier if you are hucking the FR is the rig. But if you want to ride same section but not going to huck then go with the AM and there is over lap you are correct hope to see you here again to ride.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secace
    Your condescending tone aside, the fact remains that the suspension designs are basically duplicates of one another. Anyone with even one operable cornea through an incorrect lens prescription could see that. Even a die-hard Nicolai devotee that is blinded by the Nicolai goodness. Even someone that doesnt know the half of it. Even someone that owns the nerve.
    I am one of those that will say they likely don't ride alike. Over the years, there have been multiple examples of frames that were the same or similar, but do not ride alike due to such things as the relation of pivots to one another, overall geo, stiffness, and other factors. There is similarity, but so is an Amp b3,4,5 to you name it Titus, Intense, Specialized, Nicolai, and a host of others throughout the world. Basically, the situation is that the designer and test riders have a particular terrain they prove the product on and tweak it over. They are addressing those problems on those particular test trails and conditions, which is where variances come from.

    Now if you said "Nox Cycles", then we'd have a real debate. Speaking of which, there is an album to follow for Nox, and I don't know whether to post them here or outside. I don't want to ruffle feathers and start flame wars, so they will likely go elsewhere.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whafe
    NCIG - Bike looks great. Weight is not too bad. I am still struggling to get my head around things comparing the FR to the AM..... I mean from a similar weight view point.

    For sure the handling will be vastly different.

    Having 5 models of Helius's leaves me feeling at times that there is some overlap.

    I really like using a Big Betty on the front, great tire, I dont really worry too much about the rear, I am one of those non techy peeps, if the front goes around the corner etc, the rear will follow... LOL

    AM keen to hear how you like this bike on a few more rides in your area. (and would love to ride your area again, great riding to be had)
    What's the weight on an AM frame? I noted seeing that lots of the new generation of "AM" rigs are actually gaining a bit of weight or being refined to be burlier with a minimal weight gain. Thusly, many of these AM rigs I'm seeing are looking like they are made for bigger hits, while allowing the dedicated FR rigs to be less of trailbikes.

    Anyone else notice this?

    I also just picked up a pair of Big Betty 2.4's this week. One from an LBS selling one for 30. Gonna try them out and see how I dig them. I also am going to compare them to the Conti Rubber Queen, which has been a fantastic tire and changed my riding style. Now I lean low with the bike down those warp speed downturning trails from the mountain I ride at. They roll really nice and fast, too.

  35. #35
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    It will be interesting to hear a comparrison between those two tires as they are both on my list......keep us posted...

  36. #36
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    It will be interesting to hear a comparrison between those two tires as they are both on my list......keep us posted...

  37. #37
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    ncig
    It's good to be proved right once in a while It's not often mind you!
    I'd have to disagree with you on the burliness of the AM though. I think it's designed to take a lot of abuse. More than I could give it and certainly a lot more than most 30lb AM bikes. Coming from the 08 FR it feels just as stiff and bombproof.

    While it may only build up 2>3 lighter than the FR with similar spec it does ride differently. The main difference being the way it turns. It's much quicker than the FR which is super stable and therefore a bit better on drops etc.

    Personally, i'd rather go with lighter frame and spec it with coils and beefy tyres than go for the heavy frame and light gear. It depends how and where you ride I suppose. I need it to pedal well but I'm also not willing to sacrifice performance on the downs.

    I'm a big fan of 2.4NN's as a lot of my regular terrain doesn't require stiffer sidewalls. However, after fitting the CCDB the 1st thing i did was to wreck the rear tyre. probably just coincedence but I'm now on 2.4BB's. They're obviously a slower tyre to pedal but they're a lot togher and have huge grip. Again, it depends where and how you ride really. I run them at 30>32psi and am pushing 15stone geared up.

  38. #38
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    dipper i am glad i could prove you right, For the NN the CCDB put so much presure on the rear tire so it does make sense. On the burliness is just my opion on that you could be right again

  39. #39
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    I did wonder about how the CCDB was affecting the pressure on the tyre but I can't visualize it. I'm aware that i've had to up the rear tyre pressure slightly to stop it hitting the rim

  40. #40
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    I guess the reason is that the CCDB offers a much better suspension performance and therefor the rear-tire stays longer on the ground and has therefor a bigger potential to be pinched.

  41. #41
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    dipper - It might not just be the CCDB as I've been experiencing similar issues with my FR with the Roco TST shock. I've had to increase the pressure of the rear tyre to around 30 psi (tubeless) to stop the rim hitting rocks through the tyre. Previously I never had to go beyond 25 psi with the same tyres (Maxxis, Michelin and Schwalbe). I'm assuming it's down to the ability of the shock mated to the efficiency of the Nicolai design.

  42. #42
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    Ccdb

    dipper you need to dial in the High speed compresion and rebound in a little bit maybe a turn to a quarter the rear shock is bottoming out and that what killing the tire.

  43. #43
    steep fast and loose :)
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    i reckon the reason tyres are ripping is as per yetiman's post - the frames effectiveness disguises the impacts so well , one doesn't realise the hits they're making.

    where's mine !!!!!!!!!

  44. #44
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    Ncig: How are you finding the 36 Floats on the AM frame?? Be very interested in ur thoughts as i'm waiting for mine to arrive. I've also gone a different route for me and decided on an RP23 on the rear over the CCDB as i think the AM frame dosent really need any kind of advanced damping.

    Will let you know how it goes i'm really looking forward to trying out the Air suspension as i've never been a fan so hopefully it will convert me!!!

    Worst case scenario i'll end up with vanillas/CCDB

  45. #45
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    derekr I love it. The fork is light and works very good save my but alot.

  46. #46
    steep fast and loose :)
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    this months 'Dirt' has a full review on 2009 Fox 36, and reckons the 36 FLOAT RC2 blows every other 160mm fork on the market out of the water.
    I'll stick with the 2009 36 TALAS as I'll be able to adjust both rear and front suspension travel values for varying terrain / locations.

    e.g. Glentress Black @ 130mm / Inners DH @ 160mm, etc.

  47. #47
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    Yeah i'm really looking forward to getting mine, hopefully this week maybe!?!?!?!?!


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