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  1. #1
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    2007 helius bearing

    Hello Nicolai Owners I am hoping you can help. I need to tighten up the play in my bearings and possibly replace them. I need to do this on my own as my nearest dealler is quite far away and I don't want to send the bike away.

    Is there any where that would tell me how to do this? I can't see anything on the Nicolai Website as they have taken the info down (as far as I can see) and nicolai uk don't seem to have any info either.

    any/all help greatly recieved.

    Thanks

    James

    p.s. is a bearing set really 140 quid?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2007 helius bearing-photo.jpg  


  2. #2
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    There are needle bearings in all pivots in your FR and because of that, replacing them is somehow easier / cheaper compared to newer / other Helius frames using sliders / bushings.

    In fact there are needed documents available in Nicolai web-pages - on left side choose "Service", then "Tech Manuals" and when small window appears, click text [tech manuals] - it`s a link to their library. There`s section for FR and within those docs / figures you can find needed types of needle bearings - you can find similar easily from market - they are the standard ones.

    IGUS-type propriotary washers you`ll need too, are only offered via Nicolai or authorized importer - they sell those separately. Also needed pivot axles are hard to find elsewhere.

    Youll need some tools too - specific ones but quite simple - you can see those in tech docs.
    Replacing bearings and axles is possible to do with DIY- tools, but that conical tool needed for placing IGUS-plates and bearings in right line with main pivot is recommeded to find out somewhere.

    Better to contact Nicolai- reseller / importer first still

  3. #3
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    Thank you Pergamonx, due to that fact they were entitled 09 I thought they were for the 09 models have checked them out will follow as needed.

    Have been on the line to the hub at glentress who are my local dealer but not that big on Nicolai which makes it a bit difficult.

    Have also contacted Nicolai-uk but some times waiting for them to respond can take some time.

    guess I have no choice and will take the hit. on the bearings.

    again thank you for your help.

    James

  4. #4
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    Simon at Nicolai bikes usually responds very quickly.

    Have you tryed preloading the bushings/bearings.This is just releasing the grub screw on the bearing end caps and tightening the 4mm allen screw on the other side,and then retightening the grub screw,when the play has gone.
    If the Needle bearings have play in them it is possible to buy part kits from Nicolai Uk,I have a lower/Main pivot kit on order with them now.They had mine in stock.
    Not sure you would need the whole kit,The FR i have just brought is an 2008 and the only one that isnt very good is the main pivot,No slack just rough feeling,The drive side needle roller bearing is rusty and so is the Bearing pivot tube.So i am just replacing this.
    Going to measure up the bearings and get a tool made at work for pressing them out and the new ones in.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by norcosam
    Simon at Nicolai bikes usually responds very quickly.

    Have you tryed preloading the bushings/bearings.This is just releasing the grub screw on the bearing end caps and tightening the 4mm allen screw on the other side,and then retightening the grub screw,when the play has gone.
    If the Needle bearings have play in them it is possible to buy part kits from Nicolai Uk,I have a lower/Main pivot kit on order with them now.They had mine in stock.
    Not sure you would need the whole kit,The FR i have just brought is an 2008 and the only one that isnt very good is the main pivot,No slack just rough feeling,The drive side needle roller bearing is rusty and so is the Bearing pivot tube.So i am just replacing this.
    Going to measure up the bearings and get a tool made at work for pressing them out and the new ones in.
    Hi Sam thanks for the info. I have had the bike in at the hub and they have taken the play up in the barings. unfortunately there is still play and a fair amount of rust on the bearings so need them changed. Unforunately the hub don't have the tool and want to charge 75 pounds for the privilage of doing it. So I was going to buy the tool and do it myself to save a few pennys.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two tone
    Hi Sam thanks for the info. I have had the bike in at the hub and they have taken the play up in the barings. unfortunately there is still play and a fair amount of rust on the bearings so need them changed. Unforunately the hub don't have the tool and want to charge 75 pounds for the privilage of doing it. So I was going to buy the tool and do it myself to save a few pennys.
    I am personally not convinced you need all those fancy and expensive tools.
    I think they could be Removed and replaced with carefull use of sockets and a vice.
    Definetely wont be buying the tools for mine.
    My kit should be here this week,so i will be doing mine on Saturday,I will let you know how i get on and if i think you need any special tools.

  7. #7
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    True that you don't *need* the specific tools but they make the job a lot easier, especially the axle drift when you're trying to line up the frame parts to insert a new axle.

    We do have a rental set - pay for the full set of tools and we refund it, less 5 for wear, if they're returned in good condition (more if you trash them naturally).
    Simon Still
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  8. #8
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    Hi Simon thanks for the info, think it sounds like I may as well get the tool, going to need it more than once.

    I'm really not to bad with the spanners, but is there any "how to" avalible preferably in english kicking arround

    James

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by norcosam
    I am personally not convinced you need all those fancy and expensive tools.
    I think they could be Removed and replaced with carefull use of sockets and a vice.
    Definetely wont be buying the tools for mine.
    My kit should be here this week,so i will be doing mine on Saturday,I will let you know how i get on and if i think you need any special tools.

    How much was the bearing kit norcosam?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two tone
    but is there any "how to" avalible preferably in english kicking arround
    There was a set of short video clips made by Nicolai. Their mechanic fully disassembled and re-assembled a Helius CC frame (which is very similar to your FR) pivot by pivot, all necessary tools were shown, all comments were in English (with a German accent though ). Those were some great videos and they really helped me when I was rebuilding my frame for the first time. I got the videos from Nicolai on a CD when they shipped me some spare parts, but I think they can also be found on youtube.

  11. #11
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    @smith that is absoultely perfect!! Will try and find them now!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karve
    How much was the bearing kit norcosam?

    Main pivot was 35,for axle,2 bearings and 2 Igus washers.

  13. #13
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    These are the tools i made for fitting and removing the bearings and axle.

    Inbetween the tools,i have the new bearing kit


  14. #14
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    sam love you work those tools look mint!

    Not sure how you can charge 60 quid for the tools you get, although they do get the job done.
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  15. #15
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    Firstly guys thanks for the help and info so far,

    However I have come up across a problem, the axel I have for for the hebel rocker seems to be too long, I have an axel left over from the kit but it is too short to fit to allow the rockers to attach. i also have tow of the "washer" type things left over. I have attached photos of drive side, non drive side and with the pre load screws attached.

    I have attached the diagram that I am following for this section any one got any ideas to what I'm doing wrong?
    http://2009.nicolai.net/manuals/manu..._rocker_09.pdf

    thanks

    James
    Attached Images Attached Images     

  16. #16
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    on the last picture there should be a nylon washer each side of the arm,one by the spacer tube and one between the shock link arm and the upper swing arm.Photos arnt clear enough for me to see

    Are the washers that are left,flat or stepped?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by norcosam
    on the last picture there should be a nylon washer each side of the arm,one by the spacer tube and one between the shock link arm and the upper swing arm.Photos arnt clear enough for me to see

    Are the washers that are left,flat or stepped?

    Sam thanks sorry yeah the photos are pish.

    ok, looking at the diagram it looks as if there are two nylon washers between the spacer and the arm, however if I have this correct and it makes much more sence to me, what your saying is the washers should be either side of the arm.

    however the overall spacing I am using would be the same I would still be the same and i think I would still have the bit of axel sticking out...

    The two washers pictured are stepped like the ones used on the upper swing arm

    James

  18. #18
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    there should be one washer each side of the needle bearing.so yes

    Did you check the old and new axles were the same length?

    There are no stepped washers on the pivot you are doing,they must be the upper shock link pivot ones.
    Last edited by norcosam; 04-11-2011 at 02:31 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by norcosam
    Did you check the old and new axles were the same length?

    emmmmmmmmmm Yes.. no maybe not didn't think it would be issue, just trying to find the old one, I removed it my parents where they have better tools for removing the axel when it was stuck and I think I left it up there.

    Unfortunately I got a bike shop to source the new kit so can't properly check that everything was correct because I didn't order it, but really can't see how they would have got it wrong.

    Will try and find it and take it from there....

    Thanks for the help Sam. Truely appreachiated!

    James

  20. #20
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    Private message sent mate,my email and mob number,just phone me in the evening 5pm onwards,it will be easier than on here.
    No problem mate

  21. #21
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    @twotone - those stepped washers seen in your 2nd pic are for upper rocker pivot (where pivot axle goes through top tube - no other washers needed there. In lower pivot, as norcosam wrote, 2 flat washers are needed for each end of seatstay - one for each side of bearing. So you will need 4 flat washers for lower rocker linkage. There seems to be mistake in diagram - if mounting two flat washers between the spacer and seatstay, measure between those two "hebels" is more than 49mm and right-sized reducers for shock does not work anymore - at least with AC-frame ...

    When made right, pivot axle ends will be exactly on same level compared to bearings outer sides - if not, your axle is wrong sized. Cannot check now and don`t remember, but there`s small difference between lower rocker pivot axle and main pivot axle - could yours be axle for main pivot ?

    And now off-topic - this pic is not from FR, but from ACs main pivot. Checked all pivots and bushings / bearings only 3 weeks before that - no wearing at all yet in that time. So, all that wearing has happened during few weeks only - seems that when inner surface of bushing brokes, then it wears really fast. Measured gap in that pivot was 1,1mm. Changed that bushing to needle bearing and alu-axle to steel one.
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    Last edited by pergamonx; 04-11-2011 at 10:25 PM.

  22. #22
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    Pergamonx
    I've just serviced an AM that scoffed the lower pivot in less than a year. The ano has worn off the pin and there was significant play. The new kit has a different surface finish. It's a grey looking ano as opposed to the gold. Not sure if this is significant or not. I'm hoping it's harder weariing than the gold.
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  23. #23
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    Dipper - got also a new bearing kit, full set and noticed that coating in axles looked different. Took few days to got a new set and mounted steel axle with needle bearings before that.
    Mine axle was scoffed too, not badly but damage was visible - Ill bet that scoffed alu works like grinding paste there and speeds up wearing.

    Mine main pivot bushing (only left side was scoffed, right one was ok) lasted ~900 hours of my usage - there was minor wearing in left side lower rocker pivot too, measured that 0,4mm. All others are still going strong. Let`s see how long those needle bearings will survive ... will they broke before my ordered frame is in my hands

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by pergamonx
    Dipper - got also a new bearing kit, full set and noticed that coating in axles looked different. Took few days to got a new set and mounted steel axle with needle bearings before that.
    Mine axle was scoffed too, not badly but damage was visible - Ill bet that scoffed alu works like grinding paste there and speeds up wearing.

    Mine main pivot bushing (only left side was scoffed, right one was ok) lasted ~900 hours of my usage - there was minor wearing in left side lower rocker pivot too, measured that 0,4mm. All others are still going strong. Let`s see how long those needle bearings will survive ... will they broke before my ordered frame is in my hands
    Dang, this is no good news.

    My rear rotor touches the brake pads and makes noise when I turn right or left. I'm not sure there is play in the swingarm but I already tightened (preloaded) the bearings with no sucess.

    I'll take a look as soon as I get home by next week. I'll change the QR to eliminate that possibility.

    But I can clearly see a worn non-drive-side main pivot giving enough play to be causing my issues. I hope not. I will source a repair kit in the meantime and I'll also check if I can upgrade to a steel pin.

    I also have an early (Dec-10) AC and very little miles.
    Check my Site

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pergamonx
    @twotone - those stepped washers seen in your 2nd pic are for upper rocker pivot (where pivot axle goes through top tube - no other washers needed there. In lower pivot, as norcosam wrote, 2 flat washers are needed for each end of seatstay - one for each side of bearing. So you will need 4 flat washers for lower rocker linkage. There seems to be mistake in diagram - if mounting two flat washers between the spacer and seatstay, measure between those two "hebels" is more than 49mm and right-sized reducers for shock does not work anymore - at least with AC-frame ...

    When made right, pivot axle ends will be exactly on same level compared to bearings outer sides - if not, your axle is wrong sized. Cannot check now and don`t remember, but there`s small difference between lower rocker pivot axle and main pivot axle - could yours be axle for main pivot ?
    .
    Cheers man going to take a look tonight and see whats going on found the old axel that Sam was taking about late last night so will rearrange washer config and take it from there.

    Not sure why I have 4 step washers in the kit but hay ho taking it as a bonus for spending 200 quid on the tools and kit!!!!!

  26. #26
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    @home now; measured those axles and main pivot axle is actually shorter, in my AC it`s 64mm and rocker link axle (lower) is 72mm. Does not still say that those are valid in other Helius frames - main pivot axle lenght is same in AC and FR, that`s sure `cause I got my spare axle from friend having FR ...
    *** additonal checking; original alu axle is 64mm, steel axle (spare part) is 62,5mm ***

    Obs - my "full kit" included too some extra parts, in fact there was 4 addtional thin IGUS washers ... so that`s no SO strange
    Last edited by pergamonx; 04-12-2011 at 09:54 AM.

  27. #27
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    Main pivot axle in my Fr is 62.50mm long

  28. #28
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    thanks guys that the same as mine 72 and 63...

    Reconfigured washers but still have a washers worth of play even with the preload bolt on.

    Trying to work out why that would be!!

  29. #29
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    @two tone - that`s strange there`re so much play... Of course axle/ pivot bolt lenghts can vary between model years and framemodels... but still. One thing you can do is measure the width of tube spacer and two thin washers together; they should be equal than your rear shock reducers width (if using right sized reduser...); if the combination of spacer and 2 washers are narrower than they should be, try to measure spacer and 4 washers .... In fact, what is the lenght of your spacer?

  30. #30
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    @pergamonx couldn't agree more... will check the size of shock reducers and go from there.

    Check the pictures though hopefully you'll agree this is correct config with the space.

    Sam very kindly sent me some e-mail address of people at Nicolai Germany so will give them a shout with the pictures and see how i get on.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2007 helius bearing-space-preload.jpg  

    2007 helius bearing-everthing-fitted-space.jpg  


  31. #31
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    No more my 2cents - those rocker links (umlenkhebels in Nicolai-language..) are differently
    shaped compared to AM/AC.

    BTW - there`s quite nice story in german MTB-forum how AC is re-built - there`re nice pics too how those bearings etc should be mounted - http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthr...=509700&page=5 - story begins from page 1 ... pics should be available also for non_registered visitors.

  32. #32
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    @Pergamonx yeah nice story and it didn't really raise anything different apart from, he's used alot of grease and maybe I should have used more!!!!!!!

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    We have a winner!!!!!!!!!

    i need a config of rocker arm - washer - seatstay - washer -washer - spacer : repeat

    some thing to do with continous improvements!


    we have 2 spacer legths on the market : older ones have 32,5 and need to be fitted with 2 igus next to them if anodized struts are used new ones have 35,5mm and work with one only
    if powdercoat is on the struts less width can be achieved with 1mm white nylon and/or shims 0,2mm result must be parallel linkage with 49mm inbetween


    Thank you all for your help, great when there is such an brilliant community to give advise.

    Last edited by Two tone; 04-13-2011 at 07:39 AM.

  34. #34
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    greasing the pivots

    hi, just bought a helius cc 2007. there is play in the pivots. going to tighten the bolts to see if this is enough to fix the problem without replacing the bearings, but i'd like to clean and grease the pivots while i'm there. has anyone got any advice on how to do this, and whether it's ok to use multipurpose grease, or is greasing unnecessary? thanks

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolian
    hi, just bought a helius cc 2007. there is play in the pivots. going to tighten the bolts to see if this is enough to fix the problem without replacing the bearings, but i'd like to clean and grease the pivots while i'm there. has anyone got any advice on how to do this, and whether it's ok to use multipurpose grease, or is greasing unnecessary? thanks

    Nicolian

    It's a good idea to check the needle barings on the bike when you openning it up anyway. I found that mine were falling apart and covered in rust. you should be able to see this when you remove the preload screws. Although if you get the axel out a little it will really help in getting the grease into the bearnings.

    Any grease will do i believe you just need shed loads of it.

    There is a link on one of the replies to this thread that has the full installation of bearnings on I think a Nic CC worth a look even if it is in German pictures tell a thousand words!

    Let me know how you get on I've only done it once but should be able to point you in the direction how to do it if you get stuck.

  36. #36
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    thanks, i removed the bolts cleaned out inside the barrels, cleaned the bolts, regreased and refitted. This has eliminated the play i was experiencing, the back end is now stiff, but still moves on the pivots freely. the bottom pivot nearest the crank was full of old grease and dirt, so i think this was the main peoblem- it couldn't be tightened due to this dirt. i haven't attempted to regrease the roller bearings, i'll need one of those punches, as shown in the link you mentioned, to remove them.

  37. #37
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    Yeah the tools make the job very easy but unless you know someone that can machine them they are quite expensive...

    Worth it though. especially if you are going to do the bearings your self at some point.

  38. #38
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    You can Hire the tools from Nicolai Uk.Speak to Simon.

    Or borrow mine if you are stuck.Mine are home made
    Last edited by norcosam; 05-24-2011 at 12:56 PM.

  39. #39
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    (ot.Hello jiipee,
    It appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution or just engage in a conversation with another member in any one of our forums?)


    Oh well, did my helius fr bearing service using DIY-tools to pull those bearings out. Four of them were ruined bad, two was alive. Loweraxle (near BB) was ruined too, upper was ok.
    I replaced the old bearings with new ones, using diy-tools and (fanheater?) to pull old ones out. Frozen bearings went to place really easily, and no force needed (i put new bearings to freezer for a hour or so). Finally i grease bearings with marinegrease properly. Job is done and the bike is fine.

    Here some photos.
    Last edited by jiipee; 05-27-2011 at 07:58 AM.
    Sorry my poor language, big fan for the google translate.....

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolian View Post
    hi, just bought a helius cc 2007. there is play in the pivots. going to tighten the bolts to see if this is enough to fix the problem without replacing the bearings, but i'd like to clean and grease the pivots while i'm there. has anyone got any advice on how to do this, and whether it's ok to use multipurpose grease, or is greasing unnecessary? thanks
    You should use the waterproof marinegrease to lubricate the bearings. I think it`s very important to clean and relube the bearings once in a while. They last longer an the rearend of bike will work propelry.
    Sorry my poor language, big fan for the google translate.....

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiipee View Post
    (ot.Hello jiipee,
    It appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution or just engage in a conversation with another member in any one of our forums?)


    Oh well, did my helius fr bearing service using DIY-tools to pull those bearings out. Four of them were ruined bad, two was alive. Loweraxle (near BB) was ruined too, upper was ok.
    I replaced the old bearings with new ones, using diy-tools and (fanheater?) to pull old ones out. Frozen bearings went to place really easily, and no force needed (i put new bearings to freezer for a hour or so). Finally i grease bearings with marinegrease properly. Job is done and the bike is fine.

    Here some photos.
    Top job! Good work

    Where did you get the bearings?

    Cheers

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kbrembo View Post
    Top job! Good work

    Where did you get the bearings?

    Cheers
    I went to my local bearing-dealer with old one as a model. The model is HK1512, millimetric and it`s standard measure. Price of 6pc was about 42euros (37 pound).
    Keep in mind, if the axles are worn, they must be replaced. I get mine from my friend and new plasticwashers also. Ask those from your local nicolai-dealer.

    (Damn that writing is horrible)
    Sorry my poor language, big fan for the google translate.....

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiipee View Post
    I went to my local bearing-dealer with old one as a model. The model is HK1512, millimetric and it`s standard measure. Price of 6pc was about 42euros (37 pound).
    Keep in mind, if the axles are worn, they must be replaced. I get mine from my friend and new plasticwashers also. Ask those from your local nicolai-dealer.

    (Damn that writing is horrible)
    Ok..went to look at my FR bearings today...

    Started at the rear, next to the qr's

    When I take caps off all I see is a hollow metal tube..do these need to come out to get to inspect/grease bearings?

    Also when trying to take the caps off for the leaver/pivot bearings, one of the bolts just kept turning and cap on other side turned with it (Not large main Pivot)
    Tried to get some pressure to stop other cap turning but to no joy.
    Also looks like the small allen key grommet is missing.
    Any tips to get this bolt out?

    Cheers

  44. #44
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    Kbrembo

    Yeah you need to remove the axel to expose the bearnings. you need some drifting skills to do this.

    The grommet is quite important as it is used to preload the bearings. It's absoultly tiny and will require a very small allan key I think its a 2mm (some one will correct me) I'd check with a key to see. If its not there the remove one from the other dust cover and use it so you can remove the dust caps and expect.

    I would seriously consider getting a replacement grub as they do alot in this suspension setup.

    Two tone

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two tone View Post
    Kbrembo

    Yeah you need to remove the axel to expose the bearnings. you need some drifting skills to do this.

    The grommet is quite important as it is used to preload the bearings. It's absoultly tiny and will require a very small allan key I think its a 2mm (some one will correct me) I'd check with a key to see. If its not there the remove one from the other dust cover and use it so you can remove the dust caps and expect.

    I would seriously consider getting a replacement grub as they do alot in this suspension setup.

    Two tone

    Cheers

    Tried again tonight and took another grommet and tried it.

    Bolt still spinning and cap on other side doing the same.

    Tried getting some pressure on the cap to stop it spinning but just keeps going round.

    Now to top it off, the allen key bolt head is starting to round!

    Even worse....stripped cane creek shock of the frame and found the long bolt snapped in half!!

    This is with a new CCDB and the proper bushing kit as reccommended by Nicolai!



    Bolt bought from Simon@Nicolai

    Pure luck I checked this today!
    Last edited by Kbrembo; 05-30-2011 at 11:44 AM.

  46. #46
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    One side of the Pivot cap requires a 4mm allen key, the grub screw in the lock cap requires a 2.5mm.
    You need to undo the grub screw that is inside the lock cap.Before undoing the 4mm allen key.The grub screw pinches up against the end of the 4mm allen bolt.
    Someone may have used thread locker on the bolt,Try pouring boiling water over the lock screw end.and then try undoing it.
    Not sure what has happened to the CCDB bolt,Thread looks very long to me by the marks on the threads,only about 8-10mm are threaded in,the thread is slightly smaller than the ouside shank diameter so can move stressing it at the weakest point,shank to thread interface.
    Have you landed it heavy.?

  47. #47
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    At 16 stone... every landings heavy!

    The bolt was supplied from Nic Uk

    I will revisit the allen bolts tomorrow.

    Cheers

  48. #48
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    Sorted....

    Drilled the head off the bolt.

    That freed her up!

    Bearings were surprisingly good considering all the abuse the bike has taken.

    Cleaned and caked in marine grade grease!

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kbrembo View Post
    Sorted....

    Drilled the head off the bolt.

    That freed her up!

    Bearings were surprisingly good considering all the abuse the bike has taken.

    Cleaned and caked in marine grade grease!
    Good to hear things sorted ok
    Sorry my poor language, big fan for the google translate.....

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