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Thread: 1x10 XTR for AM

  1. #1
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    1x10 XTR for AM

    Your thoughts please gents before I dive in. Looked at a few reviews and websites and still debating.

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    Other debate in my head is keeping Tech V2 which are fit and forget but heavyish or go for XTR Trail your thoughts.

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    Thinking 1x10 but sram X0.
    I like the look of those xtr trail brakes.Very interesting and a good weight.

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    I'm very much still pondering myself, I've decided to let my x2 run it's course before forcing a decision on meself

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    That's exactly what I am starting to think but the other set up could move up to commuter.

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    There are some good gear chart tables on line, but has any one experience of the Heim 2 ?

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    Only one bike at the mo, I gave my Hummer to me mate and it's currently doing laps in downtown Baghdad

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    I just put 1x9 on an Argon CC 29er and I can report that it's fabulous, so 1x10 will be even better. I have the E.13 single ring chain set front, which is beautifully machined and very light. Some photos linked in the Argon CC set up database post.

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    About to get my AC built up 1x10 using the new XTR kit and an e13 ring up front.

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    go for xtr trail, you won't be dissapointed. much lighter then my v2s and as powerfull dare i sa it. pads last longer in v2s, and due to the proper vened disc, they don't suffer heat fade

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    I know I sound like a broken record... but again on yesterdays scoot I spent much of the time in my 22 x 34. It was steep and slipy in the forest but I rode it, had I been on 32 x 36 I would have been walking. I might swap my 205 V2 disks for 185... the big boys are a bit bent after 2 years of abuse... awesome shoppers though. the elixir 5 on my other bike are close but not as good.

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    Thanks guys gone for 1X10 but still debating the brakes. Pimp if I need to later I can always add 2X10 by just getting the front end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thepimpmessiah
    I know I sound like a broken record... but again on yesterdays scoot I spent much of the time in my 22 x 34. It was steep and slipy in the forest but I rode it, had I been on 32 x 36 I would have been walking. I might swap my 205 V2 disks for 185... the big boys are a bit bent after 2 years of abuse... awesome shoppers though. the elixir 5 on my other bike are close but not as good.
    I am thinking that i might try 2x10 first and then go 1x10,and try it.

  14. #14
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    This is the aim:
    Nicolai Helius AM Ultimate Trail Light
    Part Make / Model Weight

    Bar Grips Renthal Kevlar 100
    Brakes Rear Formula The One 180 335
    Brakes Front Formula The One 180 Float 355
    Cables / Housing Gore Ride-On Sealed 80
    Cassette XTR M980 270
    Chain Shimano XTR 10 Speed 231
    Crankset Shimano XTR 790
    Outer Ring None -60
    Middle Ring Renthal 34t incl.
    Inner Ring None -30
    Ring Bolts incl.
    Chain guide LG1+ 169
    Derailleur Front none
    Derailleur Rear XTR M980 medium cage 174
    Fork BOS Deville 2060
    Frame Nicolai Helius AM 3487
    Rear Shock BOS Stoy 216 x 63 with Ti Spring 790
    Handlebar Easton Havoc Carbon 225
    Headset Chris King Ti 105
    Headset Spacers None 0
    Pedals Candy 4ti 199
    Quick Release Rear Thru Axle incl. 0
    Saddle Toupe 170
    Seatpost Binder Control tech carbon 15
    Seat Post Easton Havoc Carbon 240
    Shifter XTR left only 98
    Stem Point 1 123
    Tire Front Schwalbe Nobby Nic 2.35" TL 595
    Tire Rear Schwalbe Nobby Nic 2.35" TL 595
    Wheelset Easton Haven Carbon 1450

    Weight in Grams 12566
    Weight in lb 27.70

    Red items yet to purchase.
    Last edited by Garry AM; 01-03-2011 at 05:32 AM.

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    With pos exception of Brakes and fork or at least they're last on the list.
    Last edited by Garry AM; 01-03-2011 at 05:32 AM.

  16. #16
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    Wheelset Easton Haven Carbon 1450

    Have you won the xmas lottery.

    I would like a set of these---Need photos please.

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    Not got them yet local shop is going to do me a deal as they want to see and try them too! The plus point of a Nicolai is you don't need to buy a new frame every couple of years so can get the odd treat!

  18. #18
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    Damn me that sounds good. 27lb with a coil on an am! Where's tlr?
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

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    *drool*



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepimpmessiah
    I know I sound like a broken record... but again on yesterdays scoot I spent much of the time in my 22 x 34. It was steep and slipy in the forest but I rode it, had I been on 32 x 36 I would have been walking. I might swap my 205 V2 disks for 185... the big boys are a bit bent after 2 years of abuse... awesome shoppers though. the elixir 5 on my other bike are close but not as good.
    A broken record you might be but I agree. I get away with my 24 x 34 for 80% of my riding. I stick it in overdrive for the downs and on the very odd occasion I wish for a 22t front(which to be honest i may as well do as I never need the full extent of the overdrive).

    A 1 x 9 or 1 x 10 with a 32t would be a no go for me on anything other than a lightweight xc bike.

    With a 36t rear I may get away with a 28 front or so. However I suspect I'd still be quicker adding the minimal weight of an extra ring and mech!
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

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    I'm suspicious. I doubt you'd break below 28lbs with a coil although I think you'll come close. I'm thinking you've missed something here, perhaps inner tubes or if you're planning on running UST are the Nobby Nics really only 595g each? Only most other 2.25 UST tyres are pushing over 750g and most of the Maxxis ones are coming in over 850g (regardless of what the published weights are!).

    I think you're being optimistic with the brake as well. My (albeit older) Formular The Ones weight 580g for the front and rear calipers, including hoses, adapters and bolts. The 180mm rotors weight 288g a pair including bolts, for an all in weight of 868g versus you're aim here of 690g. The R1s with 160mm rotors still weigh over 700g.

    The Point One Racing stem is heavier than advertised as well - have a look on www.sicklines.com at their weight section as it's shown as 144g anbd the LG1+ weighs 200g not 169g.

    I've just recently confirmed these weights myself by stripping my bike down and weighing everything individually.

    This is of course an exercise if extreme pedantry/anal retentiveness and the biggest single killer feature of that build is going to be the wheels. You could be at 29lbs because you've added a dropper seat post and heavier tyres but with those wheels, the bike will still feel like a whippet on speed.

    BTW the SRAM XX cassette is the same price currently as the XTR one but will save you a decent 65g or so.

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    Yes Geetee the 2011 2.35 Nobby Nics are 595 and tubeless but I'll believe it when I see them on the scales everything else is scale weights.

    Again formula one I am just going of other peoples on scale photo's.

    The point one stem I've got and thats the exact weight its the one with ti hardwear as standard.

    LG1 200g bastards thats a big fib!

    Yeah Geetee the dropper post may well stay as I love it the rigid post was only to get weight down.

    Now your just showing off because you just bought that cassette I read the other thread, very flash.

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    I'm sorry but to fit just 1 front chain ring on a true AM bike seems contrived.
    It's like buying a 911 cup car and fitting just the right gear ratios for your favourite local sprint track. A total waste.

    I bought an all mountain bike to use on all of the 'mountain'. I would dearly love to embrace the simplicity that the setup offers, but then again I would rather sit and spin than walk and push.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry AM
    Not got them yet local shop is going to do me a deal as they want to see and try them too! The plus point of a Nicolai is you don't need to buy a new frame every couple of years so can get the odd treat!
    Do they want to do a second set as a good deal?

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    I have the latest,2.25 ust Nobby Nics,They are allgrounders,They weigh 730g ea,Didnt know there were any lighter versions.
    There might be,i think a lot of the Schwalbe tyres are now Tubeless ready.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpm100
    I'm sorry but to fit just 1 front chain ring on a true AM bike seems contrived.
    It's like buying a 911 cup car and fitting just the right gear ratios for your favourite local sprint track. A total waste.

    I bought an all mountain bike to use on all of the 'mountain'. I would dearly love to embrace the simplicity that the setup offers, but then again I would rather sit and spin than walk and push.




    Dipper... group buy on Haven Carbon.... you know you want too...

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    Now your just showing off because you just bought that cassette I read the other thread, very flash.
    I did But it was only because I got bought Chainreaction Cycles vouchers for Christmas and frankly there was nothing else I needed/wanted.

    It is crazy light though and a hugely impressive work of art.

    Much like those Haven Carbon wheels.

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    @geetee - whats left to lighten/upgrade?

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    The biggest area I could lose weight from (apart from me - although I did lose 10kg last year, so I achieved my New Year objectives from 2009/10 and I kept it off over Christmas!) is the wheels and tyres. The Mavic Crossmax SX would drop around 230g and the Crossmax STs around 330g, but I like the ones I have and they are relatively new so I doubt I'll be worrying about that too much. The tyres are a bit of shock though. 880g for the Ardent LUST 2.25s!

    Wheels and tyres make such a big difference in terms of their weight and their stiffness, to the overall ride quality IMO. I've run very light wheels before - the Specialized Rovals I had were about 1600g a set - but while 'strong' enough for me and the bike, they were so flexible that they really inhibited the ride quality.

    There's not much point in buying one of the stiffest, most accurately aligned frames on the market if you're rear wheel ends up in a different county to your front one each time you corner or land hard!

    Which is where I think carbon rimmed wheels will start to make a lot of sense despite the cost. Iím really interested in the Easton Havens not least because of their no quibble replacement guarantee on them. Apparently they are saying that it doesnít matter what you do to them; land to flat from 10 metres, case them, crash them or chuck them down the side of Alp DíHueze, if you ruin them, they will replace them.

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    That's exactly what has persuaded me it's time to try carbon. If they're that confident then I doubt there'll be an issue.

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    Oh there will be an issue alright. All your riding friends will stop speaking to you out of insane jealousy!

  32. #32
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    I've a customer after a set and he's a wheel wrecker so we'll see how they go. I do believe there's the potential to make a big difference to your ride with them. Still a he'll of a price though. Maybe it's to help pay for all the potential warranty claims!
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

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  33. #33
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    I am keen to just see if in fact the warranty is required on these Haven Wheels, and then how the warranties are handled...

    As I await my Enve rims, Hadley hub, Sapium spoked 29er wheels to arrive
    The_Lecht_Rocks: whafe - cheeers - may i offer an official apology for the wagon wheeler "dis-belief"

  34. #34
    steep fast and loose :)
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    ......................
    Last edited by The_Lecht_Rocks; 01-04-2011 at 12:35 PM.

  35. #35
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    Aye right. Your pockets are way too deep for them short arms! You've been procrastinating over an ac for near 2 years and now you're talking of wheels that cost near the same! I think not
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipper
    Aye right. Your pockets are way too deep for them short arms! You've been procrastinating over an ac for near 2 years and now you're talking of wheels that cost near the same! I think not
    Sharpen those claws

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    Stop stop stop stop talking about carbon wheels. I want a set, but can not justify it.....

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    You can't justify it? What kind of a pansy ass excuse is that? Can you afford them? Yes? So what are you waiting for?

    I quite often see some of the journos from one of the UK mags when I'm out riding and during a recent conversation one of them was saying that the set of Edge Carbon rimmed wheels they tested were so utterly incredible that despite costing £800 or so each, they were worth every single penny for the performance improvement they gave.

    I haven't tried them myself although I may get a chance as someone I know locally is going to end up with a pair. I will take a view then!

  39. #39
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    Well, yes I can afford them, but I have other priorities to spend my money on, like quitting my job. I really really want a set of green i9 hubs, on black enve carbon rims with silver spokes.

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    geetee, have you considered the DT EXC 1550's as an alternative? Also available as a rim EXC 400, so you could lace them to any hub you like. 29mm wide.

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    Thought that sounded like a good option but they're not UST and I can't see from the web site whether thats 29mm internal or external. Just found it inner width is 22mm so 1mm wider than the Easton's.
    Last edited by Garry AM; 01-04-2011 at 11:56 PM.

  42. #42
    steep fast and loose :)
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    @ianpinder - how are the crank brothers wheels holding up ?
    are the hubs reliable ?

    ta

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    Good question TLR. Wheels ordered.......

  44. #44
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    What wheels?

    Tlr they are excellent. No play rock solid and so far bombproof, including some rather large jumps to flat on a hardtail

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    Haven C...... :-)

  46. #46
    steep fast and loose :)
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    ian - how are the hubs holding out ?

    i kn ow there were some serious issues with the fist couple of batches.....

  47. #47
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    I was interested in the Crank Bros Wheels but they don't do a 135 x 12

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry AM
    I was interested in the Crank Bros Wheels but they don't do a 135 x 12
    I looked at them.They only do the Iodine in 135 x 12.They are 1900g+ wheels

  49. #49
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    Norcosam I sent you e-mail re costs :-)

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry AM
    Norcosam I sent you e-mail re costs :-)

    Mailed back

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    Will post photo's tomorrow after ride but weights are 706g front 20mm hub and 819g rear and 135 x 12mm rear hub both with valve stalks and caps. Appear very well made as they should.

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    Not wanting to hijack the thread but anyone had time on the 2011 xtr trail brakes?

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    yes, they are amazing, as powerfull as the saint brakes, lighter then my elixr carbons.

    Not sure about pad life and heat resistance because in the south east we don't have many big hills, but no over heating issues so far and they still have the ice disc upgrade to come whenever they are in stock.

    will be replacing all my brakes with them, except for the tech v2s due to having vented rotors.

    The wheels are excellent, obviously not an extended review. They weigh in at 1800g, not 1900g, but still not that light. However they are incredible stiff, and I landed a 20ft jump to flat on my tranny with them (didn't realise you needed half the speed on the tranny then I did on my nicolai) and they are still perfectly true.

  54. #54
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    I'am playing the waiting game with brakes Ian has put me off Formula Ones due to his issues and the XTR Trail brakes look great but will ask Ian again in 3 months sorry mate your the Guinea Pig for these. Although I suppose I should be saying Guinea Waif! what are you now enough to put some heat into those brakes?

  55. #55
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    I'm a trim 25 odd stone. Which is better then the 30 odd stone I was last year. Heat has gone into them but Surrey hills isn't the last word in steep so I tend not to brake. Untill cwm carn in feb I won't be going anywhere near a big hill

  56. #56
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    Very similar spec to the sworks endure im building with devilles, easton carbon wheels and bars. Been running wheels for some time now and are absolutely bomb proof. You won't go back after you have evn touched them, incredibly light and stiff.

    Just waiting for my frame to turn up next week before build starts. Ran all these bits on my spicy with a ccdb too.

    You'll be very happ i think.


    Quote Originally Posted by Garry AM
    This is the aim:
    Nicolai Helius AM Ultimate Trail Light
    Part Make / Model Weight

    Bar Grips Renthal Kevlar 100
    Brakes Rear Formula The One 180 335
    Brakes Front Formula The One 180 Float 355
    Cables / Housing Gore Ride-On Sealed 80
    Cassette XTR M980 270
    Chain Shimano XTR 10 Speed 231
    Crankset Shimano XTR 790
    Outer Ring None -60
    Middle Ring Renthal 34t incl.
    Inner Ring None -30
    Ring Bolts incl.
    Chain guide LG1+ 169
    Derailleur Front none
    Derailleur Rear XTR M980 medium cage 174
    Fork BOS Deville 2060
    Frame Nicolai Helius AM 3487
    Rear Shock BOS Stoy 216 x 63 with Ti Spring 790
    Handlebar Easton Havoc Carbon 225
    Headset Chris King Ti 105
    Headset Spacers None 0
    Pedals Candy 4ti 199
    Quick Release Rear Thru Axle incl. 0
    Saddle Toupe 170
    Seatpost Binder Control tech carbon 15
    Seat Post Easton Havoc Carbon 240
    Shifter XTR left only 98
    Stem Point 1 123
    Tire Front Schwalbe Nobby Nic 2.35" TL 595
    Tire Rear Schwalbe Nobby Nic 2.35" TL 595
    Wheelset Easton Haven Carbon 1450

    Weight in Grams 12566
    Weight in lb 27.70

    Red items yet to purchase.

  57. #57
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    Vikingboy Havens or Haven Carbon?

  58. #58
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    Haven carbons.....

    I'm just down in Guildford now a days so will be out oleith hill in the next couple of weeks.

    I run 1x10 sram xo/xx too which is the way to go too for weight/performance too.

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    Well 1x10 part are due in two weeks want to go out and try 1x9 today but peeing down

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry AM
    Well 1x10 part are due in two weeks want to go out and try 1x9 today but peeing down
    You'll love it. I found it a tad harder to setup than SRAM 1x9 and a bit more sensitive to cable tension but thats only to be expected. Mind you if you are coming from Shimano 9sp it will be easier due to 10spd's SRAM like cable actuation ratio.

    Weight wise, 211g for the XX 11-36 cassette. Been on it about 12 weeks and it seems to be lasting ok. Preferred my old 9 speed XTR as it could be fully disassembled and cleaned where as the XX is more of a mission to clean crap out of.


  62. #62
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    viking did you weigh yours I was bit disappointed that they were 76g heavier than quoted. Unless the 12mm is heavier than the qr wheel?

  63. #63
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    I didnt weight them foolishly. Given they are stripped other than tyres right now I could pull the tyres off and get a weight. Ive just orderd a park scale so I can weigh stuff heavier than 500g

    They were noticeably lighter than the 1650g crossmax sx's i took off. Stiffness is off the chart with no flex at all on these. So easy to flick the bike around its unreal.

    Ian

  64. #64
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    Can't wait for the sunshine tomorrow!

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    Right, LG1+ and Renthal 34t just arrived so will fit them have lunch and test ride with 1x9 and Havens.

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    Garry, how come the 34t and not 32t?

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    Garry, how come the 34t and not 36t?

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    Exactly halfway between the to and based on the recommendation from Dirt mag this month.

    Didn't go cycling today because of the rediculous design of the nic standard old iscg adjustable tabs didn't work with Blackspire dewlie without machining it, didn't work with HS due to rear swing arm and didn't work with LG1+ today not until I machined it down to fit, rediculous not one iscg item has fitted to the iscg mounts come on Nicolai that is rubbish....

    Got it fitted now but gone dark, took me 4hrs! and saved 520g over previous xtr set up with Dewlie.

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    I had trouble fitting my E13 to my Fr and the LG1 on the Ion.Nothing that a mill at my work wouldnt cure.
    I know what you are saying though,it should fit on with no messing about.It is a "standard" for Chain devices.

    I ordered mu 2x10 today,with the idea that if you are ok with yours i will be trying 1x10,Probably get a Straitline silent guide,if i go for it.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingboy
    Looking very nice.Let us know how they ride,and any problems.
    Will get a set if yours last until april/may without any problems,the hub is my only doubt.

  71. #71
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    Nice one, I'll be giving it a go tomorrow although it will be hard work as lowest gear will be 34/32 just have to wait for the 10 speed to get 34/36 which I think will be manageable round here.

  72. #72
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    Maybe its the 'old' iscg standard that isn't so standard? Had zero problems bolting up my lg1+ to my spicy or enduro other than fettling with the washers to get the chain line perfect.

    The haven hubs have been holding up fine so far and i think the teething issues they had on the first run of alloy wheels cured the issues for these carbon ones, as well as later ally ones obviously. I'll keep you informed. My preference and likely route forward is to mount some up to some king hubs, easton talked about releasing the rims in standard spoke configuration later, would be ideal for me as the extremely lightweight 24spoke default setup is likely not as robust as a standard 32 spoke count wheel on these rims. The ust nature of the rims is welcome and the reason why i didn't go with edge rims at this stage.

    Any pics garry for us of your new setup?

  73. #73
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    Garry, did you weight the renthal chainring before you mounted it. How do they compare the the e13 in weight do you know?

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingboy
    I didnt weight them foolishly. Given they are stripped other than tyres right now I could pull the tyres off and get a weight. Ive just orderd a park scale so I can weigh stuff heavier than 500g

    They were noticeably lighter than the 1650g crossmax sx's i took off. Stiffness is off the chart with no flex at all on these. So easy to flick the bike around its unreal.

    Ian
    My SX wheels are 1750g.Didnt know they did any lighter ones,Thought they were now all the same.

  75. #75
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    I did weigh the renthal the 34t ring is 45g. previous ring was a 36t saint which was 65g.

  76. #76
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    Pics I was so fed up after 4hrs mounting a chain device I came in for a drink!

  77. #77
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    I have an E13 on my ION,Seems very well made.Very light.
    I know the new E13 chainrings are 10speed compatible

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by norcosam
    My SX wheels are 1750g.Didnt know they did any lighter ones,Thought they were now all the same.
    You are correct, sorry. The sx's were 1750, the easton haven alloy wheels were 1650.

  79. #79
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    Good job! Wow

    Verdict after first ride, excellent, drive train lovely and quiet and you can jump all over the cranks with no chance that the chain will jump.

    The wheels well what can I say , probably best summed up by precise, you can get the bike to go just where you want and flick it around very easily, tyres took good shape on them and feel stable using 2.4 Rubber Queen on the front (enormous) and 2.2 on back both UST. Justified the purchase in my opinion.

  80. #80
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    Glad to hear you're happy Garry. Those 2.4 RQ are massive tyres.....

    Got those wheel weights for you...




  81. #81
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    Weights within 2% of mine so fairly close but still 3.1% heavier than claimed.

  82. #82
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    Done.

    Finished article.
    1x10 XTR for AM-2011_1_10-004.jpg

    Machining to LG1+
    1x10 XTR for AM-2011_1_10-010.jpg

  83. #83
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    Very nice. Cracking spec what's it weigh in at?
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

    flash bikes for flash gits

  84. #84
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    I agree with Dipper,That is very nice Garry.

  85. #85
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    nice! Great photo too.....i may have to invest in a camera at some point which doesnt exist in a phone!

  86. #86
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    Dipper, I will weigh it tomorrow.

  87. #87
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    swap the brakes to the new xtr to save almost another lb

  88. #88
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    Ian certainly considering XTR but still no 6 bolt ice rotor! Argh! why on earth would they limit the use of yheir brakes like that? Unless they are deluded that we should all be buying their wheels, which are heavy and don't come in the sizes we need.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry AM
    Finished article.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Machining to LG1+
    Click image for larger version. 

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    hi garry, i have a problem
    i have a nomad carbon, and a MRP G2 mini sl for (32-36t) and my ancient crankset xtr 970 (2007) for 3 rings.
    now i want to upgrade my new bike, with these ones.
    but when i check your picture, i supose that for you it 's ok to install your cranks xtr 970...
    for my i cannot centrate my ring (34t) in the middle part of the chainring mrp g2. i have an ancient hollowtech 2 but works well.i think the problem, it's that i'm on the max with the inner bolts.and so on the top of the cap-chain guide mrp the ring cannot stay in the middle.do you think i need to take off the littlle ring in my bottom bracket? because on the nomad c, it's 73mm, so i ad a small ring-plastic black on it.
    do you think i need to nuy a new crank?
    see you thanks a lot
    and if you speak french....;o)

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry AM
    Ian certainly considering XTR but still no 6 bolt ice rotor! Argh! why on earth would they limit the use of yheir brakes like that? Unless they are deluded that we should all be buying their wheels, which are heavy and don't come in the sizes we need.
    I'm using standard avid rotors at the minute, or whatever the bike shop had lying around, still the best brakes I own (including the tech v2s) though won't be as heat resistant in the alps.

  91. #91
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    Running 2x10 now,Spent most of my time in the 39,Brilliant spread of gears,Only dropped into the 26 tooth front when i rode up some very steep and muddy climbs.
    XX cassette is stunning and changes instantly compared to the older 9 Speed X0.
    Have only done 20 miles on it,Impressed so far.
    Maybe thinking i should have gone 28/42

  92. #92
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    Any further reports? Just found this thread and enjoyed reading it, wondering if there is an update.

  93. #93
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    Sorry gbug been off the bike for 8 weeks with broken hand, but will be back out tomorrow to try the 1 x 10 SLOWLY! I've kept the brakes as they are at moment and hoping to go for a pair of Magura MT8 when they are released if they are as powerful and light as the Magura web site would have us believe then they should be an excellent proposition.

  94. #94
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    ps. The very stiff wheels felt awesome right up to the point I went over the bars down a fair drop and broke my hand.

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