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  1. #1
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    150mm fork on Helius AM , any good?

    Posted earlier, thought i mite get a more quick response if i asked a question directly, Looking for feedback on this setup for the AM. 150mm air fork and air for rear suspension.
    Cheers.

  2. #2
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    I think a 150mm fork would make the HA very steep and probably lower the BB.
    I think if you have 150mm Trail forks you should be looking at an AC

  3. #3
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    I have an AC with 150mm. Nicolai recommend this size fork for the AC.

    Having a quick look at the AM setup database - Nicolai Helius AM - Setup Database - most of the forks seem to be bigger (e.g. Fox 36)

    AC is also a good bike though! Go for it! (i.e. a Nicolai - AM or AC)

  4. #4
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    you'd almost certainly be better with a 160 fork on the AM although obviously a 150 will 'work'. if its an AM you want then might be worth flogging the fork as opposed to getting a frame to suit the fork
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

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  5. #5
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    The AM is not really intended to be used with shorter forks than 160-180mm front. Running a shorter fork will lower the BB height and steepen the head angle. However, 10mm off the fork will be less than 5mm at the BB height and about half a degree so not huge. You can compensate for the reduced BB height by reducing the rear travel and/or running the rear shock with less sag.

    Whilst shorter rear travel settings do not alter the angles they do result in a slightly higher ride height BB since the sag is reduced - at the extremes 30% of 170mm is 51mm drop vs 30% of 136mm = 41mm so in theory an AM in the shortest travel setting at the rear with a 140mm fork would run with an effective BB height very close to one with a 160mm fork and full rear travel. Using a 150mm fork you could run the rear in one of the two middle holes.
    Simon Still
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  6. #6
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    I test rode an AM with my 150mm fork the other day - it does work but you'd be wanting to run the rear on the second travel setting which will mean more pedal strike. I'm planning on doing this on the AM I've ordered but only as a intermediate term solution until I buy a new fork. What really matters is the axle-crown length which nicolai say should be 545mm - you want to be as close to that as possible so I'm using a hope reducer headset with a talk bottom cup to increase the a-c length. If you're get a 1 1/8 headtube then you could use a CK headset with the talk crown race from Ventana to try to increase that length.

  7. #7
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    Those are good suggestions - worth noting that your 150mm fork has a typical a-c of a 140mm fork (ie it's a particularly short one. Lowering the rear travel more *should* help as i mentioned above.
    Simon Still
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    www.nicolai-uk.com

  8. #8
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    the problem with reducing rear travel to keep the bb up is that it steepens the HA even more in a dynamic situation putting more weight over the front. if you can get away with it id be looking at running more sag. either way its not ideal.
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dipper View Post
    the problem with reducing rear travel to keep the bb up is that it steepens the HA even more in a dynamic situation putting more weight over the front. if you can get away with it id be looking at running more sag. either way its not ideal.
    True *but* the current AM is fairly slack - half a degree from the fork and, for the sake of simplicity, another half degree from the rear only takes you to the HA the AM launched with (and rode really well with).
    Simon Still
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  10. #10
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    My AM is the old geometry and I've never had any problems with the handling.

    Oh hang on a minute. Tha'ts not entirely true is it!

  11. #11
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    That's the rider though...??!!!!!!

    Please excuse typos above - clearly 'talk' should read 'tall'.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromthesurf View Post
    ... What really matters is the axle-crown length which nicolai say should be 545mm - you want to be as close to that as possible ...
    My Lyrik has an A2C of 545mm, whilst the Revelation at 150mm is on 529mm. 16mm siginificant?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai-uk View Post
    True *but* the current AM is fairly slack - half a degree from the fork and, for the sake of simplicity, another half degree from the rear only takes you to the HA the AM launched with (and rode really well with).
    Good point Simon.
    www.gravity-sports.co.uk

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  14. #14
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    150mm will be just fine, both for the newer and the older model.

    I've used my AM(older version) with a lower front end all season and I've done plenty of DH riding. The (very small) difference in HA can't be felt at all.

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    Yeah I was original set on the AC but my rep thought IDE be more safe on the AM since I like doing small drops (3ft-5ft), steep rollers , kicker jumps etc.
    How much punishment was the AC designed to handle, 90% of my riding however is slower very technical singltrack , short steep climbs , small wheely drops and steep little rollers, sometimes trialsy.

  16. #16
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    From my current research. ;-), the AC frame weight is the same as the AM and so should be plenty tough for what you describe.

    I've done those drops on my 100mm XC bike, and my rigid Jones in the past (not always intentionally!) depends s bit if they're to flat, but hey this is a 150mm bike we're talking about here, and a Nicolai, it isn't Pared down and lightweight. Think what we were riding 5 years ago!!
    Aka chainline...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    From my current research. ;-), the AC frame weight is the same as the AM and so should be plenty tough for what you describe.

    I've done those drops on my 100mm XC bike, and my rigid Jones in the past (not always intentionally!) depends s bit if they're to flat, but hey this is a 150mm bike we're talking about here, and a Nicolai, it isn't Pared down and lightweight. Think what we were riding 5 years ago!!
    Really... I know the claimed weights should be about a lb apart but would be very interested to hear what actual weights you have found for each model.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_pilot View Post
    From my current research. ;-), the AC frame weight is the same as the AM and so should be plenty tough for what you describe.
    +1

    It kinda shocked me when I saw this picture (from mtb-de.com). I was expecting my AC to come close to the 2600grs claimed, but I'm not really complaning. More mass equals less fatigue. Not really far from other trailbikes but the likes of carbon frames and such.

    I haven't ridden an AM, but I can tell you that the AC feels a hair steep with a 140mm fork (520mm A2C), more specifically a Pike. It felt better with the Revelation at 150mm (530mm A2C as noted).

    It feels really nice with a Nixon at 545mm A2C (160mm) but I don't endorse it as it's not covered by warranty... or at the very least you MUST use the deep cup headset.

    Also, it depends on the fork you are running... Fox 150mm forks come short at 520mm A2C and their 140mm models are 510mm. RS are 10mm taller.

    Yes... 16mm in A2C is enough to be noticed. Rule of thumb is one degree of steering angle is roughly equivalent to 20mm at the fork.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 150mm fork on Helius AM , any good?-img_3002.jpg  

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    +1

    It kinda shocked me when I saw this picture (from mtb-de.com). I was expecting my AC to come close to the 2600grs claimed, but I'm not really complaning.
    2.7 kg for an anodised frame per Nicolai.net - 2.8 powder coat is as expected.
    Simon Still
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai-uk View Post
    2.7 kg for an anodised frame per Nicolai.net - 2.8 powder coat is as expected.
    That's strange because my new AC in anodised flavour bends the scales at a whopping 2930 grams. When I ordered the AC the Nicolai tech sheet stated 2.6kg and I'd have been happy with a weight of 2.7kg but at 2930 grams it's almost as heavy as my AM frame.

  21. #21
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    Is your AC a medium with regular head tube etc?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai-uk View Post
    2.7 kg for an anodised frame per Nicolai.net - 2.8 powder coat is as expected.
    Not calling you wrong, but their website says...

    "Helius AC
    Trail | Tour

    Travel - 140 - 150 mm

    weight 2,6 kg (Size M, black anodised, excl. shock)
    1849 *"

    Mine is a Medium. The one on the picture (not mine) is also a Medium. So, a claimed weight of 2.6 is correct for my frame.

    However, in all honesty, the totally brushed frame complete from the same thread comes in at 2690grs, which is a 3.4% if anyone wants to get strict about it (totally acceptable to me).

    Paint just makes for ~123grs in a Medium frame.

    Again... I was surprised to see a painted frame coming at 2.8kgs, but I'm not complaining. Certainly, I wouldn't have bought another frame to save 100grs.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 150mm fork on Helius AM , any good?-img_3300.jpg  

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  23. #23
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    Sorry - I misread NICOLAI Maschinenbau GmbH and read the 2.7 further down for a large
    Simon Still
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by geetee1972 View Post
    Is your AC a medium with regular head tube etc?
    It's a medium c/w 1.5" headtube and 12mm axle. Same spec as my AM but it was only 90 grams heavier than the stated weight at 3190 grams.

  25. #25
    "El Whatever"
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    Well, I think I was overreacting...

    Here's a DW Turner 5-Spot (close competitor to the AC in intended use, geometry, etc.), size large, powdercoated, no shock.

    Assuming the difference between a Large and a Medium is 100grs as in the AC, the difference would be barely ~60grs in favor of the Spot. Nil.

    I'll take the Nicolai any day.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 150mm fork on Helius AM , any good?-5spot_turner_large_frame_only.jpg  

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