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  1. #1
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    24 hours of allamuchy photos

    I was only at the race for the last 1.5 hours but here they are.


















  2. #2
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    nice photos

    Very nice shots. Mud, mud everywhere. I noticed not many folks use eye protection. Can someone explain that?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not So Fast
    Very nice shots. Mud, mud everywhere. I noticed not many folks use eye protection. Can someone explain that?
    eye protection would have fogged up instantly in those conditions.

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    Nice!

    Nice destruction as usual fellas. You have the nerve to tout the wanton destruction of our trails. This race needs to be stopped. It is a nuisance and ruins the forest for others. You wouldn't ride it in this condition if there wasn't a race. Why do it now?

    I am ashamed to be lumped into the same collection of mountain bikers.

    ShAME SHAME SHAME!

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    shut up hippe

  6. #6
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    who cares its fun and it cant be worse the the boy scouts romping around all summer on the same trails

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    Nice pix!

    Next year we will have to get you to the DH sections. Great carnage there!
    TeamBulldog.com Cyclecraft.com Mtbnj.com JORBA.org

  8. #8
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    nope next year i will be racing!!!! they need to put in a dh class, for bikes with 8+ inches of travel. im going to be buying a new bike soon. looking at a few now. haro mary ss, commencal meta 4.2, iron horse mark3 comp, transition covert. not going to spend more then $2500 not $1 over.

  9. #9
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    Allamuchy 07'

    Looking for update on this weekends race at Allamuchy. Checked Compuscore, looks like Solo riders where clocking in around 4-6 total laps average, top finishers only 7-8 laps. Not good. Whats the story? Pics look like it was a typical disaster out there. How was the course? I cant believe the heat on Sat. This race should be done in Sept/Oct.

  10. #10
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    IMBAman is back!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by YankeesRulw
    Nice destruction as usual fellas. You have the nerve to tout the wanton destruction of our trails. This race needs to be stopped. It is a nuisance and ruins the forest for others. You wouldn't ride it in this condition if there wasn't a race. Why do it now?

    I am ashamed to be lumped into the same collection of mountain bikers.

    ShAME SHAME SHAME!

    I know I am going to get trashed for agreeing with this guy but I have to say I think the trails could have used a break this weekend.
    I think IMBA agrees:
    http://www.imba.com/news/trail_news/..._14_3_mud.html
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  12. #12
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    RIP- Team Blazing Saddles Calls Allamuchy Quits

    Rain-o-mucchy is no more for Blazing Saddles.

    After 4 years (uh...i think) of very respectible top 8 finishes (i think) in the 4 person team category we bailed after 2 laps each this year. The trail conditions were already marginal, which is ok by us as we love the rocky and rooty trails, but the rain this time around was just not in the cards for us. We collectivly said "hell no."

    Our criteria were manyfold...

    Rain+riding for hours='s major crotch rot. not fun.

    Rain+ trails in the pre-existing condition="s bad trails and possible long term damage (remember running of the dogs in kittatinny 2 years ago with the rain and snow and mud flowing down the trails like lava)

    Ran+mud+hours of riding ="s messed up bikes.

    My tent flooded: bummer. even though there are easy solutions for that like camping on the raised paltforms which i did not do for some ungodly reason-???go figure.

    Also contributing this year were there issues I'd like to explore....

    1. too many unqualified solo riders. the trails were littred with what seemed like beginners this year. is this the result of 4 person teams racing as friends in the solo class? is it the result of endurance event marketing? Im not sure. comments and others obesrvations are welcome here.

    2. only 17 4 person teams. We lost 1/3rd of the 4 person teams from last year. after we bailed on lap 8 there were 2 teams 1 lap head and 3 of us at 8 pretty close i think. im yet to look at standings but yes...we bailed...but the competition has shrunk in this class every year we have been there i think. someone may look that up and challenge me on ths but it sure felt funny having 150 solos and only a handful of 4 person teams.

    3. where's all the money for this event going? active.com charges a $22.50 reg fee thats outrageous to process payments and we pay a ton of money for what seems like an event with EXCELLENT CREWS AND TIMING ELEMENTS but little beyond that with an atmosphere that is less than festive. Can someone provide a breakdown of the finding to us? i may be wrong here too so transparancy will solve that matter on behalf of the race promoters.

    Wonder what others think about this, am interested to see how many bailed...like us....and what we all do next year.

    Thanks the the 24 hr allamuchy crew and promoters for thier comittment to this event and to all the great riders weve met along the way. its been fun...

    if we make it back call me a liar...while im chasin you down the trail!

    seriously....

    thanks...its been a great event but there are many desirables that remain to be answered and addressed if this event is to survive.

    Regards,

    Team Blazing Saddles.

  13. #13
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    Lots of effort

    Conditions were tuff. Looks like suffering was had by all. I prerode on Fri and stopped in on Sun. Thanks for the Pix...
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    IMBAman is back!
    Yes he is, but......it is a valid point. The trail user groups advocate protecting the environment from abuse; from what I see in those pictures that place got hammered.

    So, what is the general opinion on the impact of a race like 24hr in those conditions?

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    our last lap was during the initial hour of downpours. we bailed as we knew it would be ugly. but...we need to hear from the muddy people....to qualify the real impact. it could not have been good but then again....those trails are resilient and they will bounce back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    Yes he is, but......it is a valid point. The trail user groups advocate protecting the environment from abuse; from what I see in those pictures that place got hammered.

    So, what is the general opinion on the impact of a race like 24hr in those conditions?
    Far be it for me to stick up for the 24 Hours coordinators, but...

    After riding there for years and as part of the crew that does regular TM in Allamuchy, I can say that the trails that were used will bounce back and in a very short amount of time. Especially in Allamuchy, where the rider density is very low. The worst problems in Allamuchy are present in trails that are not used very much at all.

    There are a bunch of trails in Allamuchy that have not been touched by a race, nor are they used that much by mountain bikers/hikers/horses. I invite everyone to check out the trails by Waterloo Road -- not used in races, not used that much, but there is lots of erosion.

    Specifics? 1. From Waterloo Road parking lot, turn right onto Waterloo Road and then right into the woods onto the double track. That is one washed out trail -- not used in races. 2. From the Waterloo Road parking lot, proceed up the railtrail, turn left at Jefferson Lake. Follow that trail to the interection and turn right. Follow that trail and you will find one really washed out trail that is almost totally unridable. Again, not that much traffic there. 3. Enter at Cranberry Ledge Road and proceed up that trail. After the turn off on the right for the single track (which is used quite often and in good shape), the unused part of that trail becomes a washed out pile of rubble. 4. Another trail not used at all is in the Boy Scout camp near Dean's monument -- that one is a gulley now and has a stream running down the middle of it!!!

    There are many more examples in there of sections that need serious repair that have not been used in races and are lightly ridden by mountain bikers. Quads have done some damage, but even that is fairly minimal.

    In fact, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the trails in the best condition in Allamuchy have all been used in races and the ones that don't get used are in the worst condition. Sure, there is a lot of TM that goes on in Allamuchy, but that goes on in other parks that aren't used for racing, too. Let the flaming begin.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allamuchy Joe
    Let the flaming begin.
    I'm not gonna flame anyone, it's just that if your pic is up there or you participated in the race........then please do not slam those who ride in less than favorable conditions. Hypocrisy is not a great trait, I was just wondering what everyone thinks of the tread lightly, UNLESS RACING, attitude.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    I'm not gonna flame anyone, it's just that if your pic is up there or you participated in the race........then please do not slam those who ride in less than favorable conditions. Hypocrisy is not a great trait, I was just wondering what everyone thinks of the tread lightly, UNLESS RACING, attitude.

    Whatever. If you are concerned, contact the coordinators at
    www.24hoursofallamuchy.com -- perhaps, since they made money on the event if they hear from concerned individuals like yourself they may finance some TM work on the race course.

    PS I didn't slam you for not participating in the race -- I just stated my opinion, which you asked for, right?

  19. #19
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    I definitely wouldn't say "who cares, it is fun."

  20. #20
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    i hiked the course backwards 3 miles, all i saw was rolling fire road. there was nothing that screamed OHHH erosion that harms the environment. that picture of the guy in red riding in the mud was the worst spot i saw and it was only 20 feet long. the rest were large mud puddles. now 2006 running of the dogs that was some crazy erosion but was the most fun i have EVER had on a bike, also my first race ever, and my first time riding on a trail.

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    We were there for the 5th time and after a couple of top 5, two top 2 we finally pulled off a win! Yes there was a suprising lack of 4 person teams which was disapointing. As for the conditions, well you can't do much about that. That trail will rebound fine as it does year after year. We have raced and ridden motorcycles there for years in all conditions and the trail always comes back. Alot of those trails were cut many years ago by the Ridge Riders motorcycle club and were maintained by them and the local MTB contingent. As we no longer ride dirtbikes there, the mountain bike contingent have done an admirable job of maintaining the trail system but by themselves, they can't get to them all. As someone eariler stated, the trails not maintained are the ones in the worst shape.
    I might get flamed here as a moto guy but I don't really care. All user groups need to be concerned about image, but trust me, this area will heal quickly with a little TLC and be ready for next year.

  22. #22
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    the last running of the dogs race was sick. visuals i will never forget with that mud. and the warm, cooldown, rain, sleet, snow, rain, freezing mess it was. CRAZY!

    how did kitatinny recover? fine probably, right?

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    It's fine

    Kittatinny received 80 hours on TM in the 2 weeks post the Running of the Dogs. They are now what they were prior to that race. The race was even cancelled this year to quantify the recovery. The same respect was giving to Deer Park after its race.

    As a racer of this years 24 of Allamucy, I will agree that the trails looked just as they did when we last raced that course. In fact, my old lines were better than the new lines and I couldn't understand "where the trail went" in regards to the race. Therefore, it will definitely heal itself.

    Congrads to all the racers and support peoples who braved the weather and camping.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomissa
    3. where's all the money for this event going? active.com charges a $22.50 reg fee thats outrageous to process payments and we pay a ton of money for what seems like an event with EXCELLENT CREWS AND TIMING ELEMENTS but little beyond that with an atmosphere that is less than festive. Can someone provide a breakdown of the finding to us? i may be wrong here too so transparancy will solve that matter on behalf of the race promoters.
    I know the Boys Scouts get a their fair share for the rental of the camp. $140 for a weekend of racing is fairly cheap in my book. Look at the XC races, you pay around $35 for between 1 to 3 hrs of racing. Check out these crazy prices for Ganny Gear 24hrs races (http://www.grannygear.com/Register/p...cale&year=2007) IThe Active fee does seem a big outrageous though.

    Quote Originally Posted by jomissa
    thanks...its been a great event but there are many desirables that remain to be answered and addressed if this event is to survive.
    It's been going strong for 14 yrs & they claim to have had 50 more riders than last year, I don't think that will be a problem, but what do I know.

    I also said I wouldn't be back after last years rain, but I got sucked in any way, & also said the same thing yesterday & already have softened that stance.

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  25. #25
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    I know I'm not making any friends with this line of questioning but,

    Does this serve any purpose:



    ?
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ytc100
    I know I'm not making any friends with this line of questioning but,

    Does this serve any purpose:
    ...
    ?
    I'd say no considering I rode the Lewis Morris race course last night and it was fine. It's a bit damp but no puddles and no mud whatsoever.

    What's the deal with those smileys anyway? It was a lot easier to read when they just wrote Poor Good Average etc...

  27. #27
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    Why so many solos?

    I'll share with you my selfish reasons. I ran solos 3 times and a team twice and here's why I liked solo.
    1.) It's totally up to you and if the conditions are crappy then don't go back out, you are not letting anyone else down if you decide to throw in the towel.
    2.) Better parking. You only get one parking pass per team but you only need one as a solo.
    3.) Short walk to camp site. I like car camping and bringing all my gear but if I have to make 5 trips (that's if I can find a cart) back and forth can really sucks. Especially after staying up half the night and being exhausted.

    When I ran with a team I was in the spot across from the showers and another time up by the flag pole and I was pretty miserable hauling my stuff out all tweaked from 2 night laps and a morning lap. Last year I got the lean to right next to the office and I was 100 ft from my truck. It didn't matter that I couldn't find a cart.

    These are just my pesonal reasons, but solo was the thing for me. I think they had 147 solo riders this year and around 110 last year. Maybe someone else picked up on what was obvious to me. If I could park anywhere I would ride with a team.

  28. #28
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    Muchy

    I totally agree with a lot of you. This race is overrated. The whole 24 hr scene has become overrated. When it first began years ago with Stamstad it was new and different. Then everyone jumped on the bandwagon to make a profit. Now, its just redundant. 24 Hrs of Moab is really the only good 24 hr even next to the epic world championship. However, this race at Allamuchy is not festive at all. Christ you cant even bring a beer in there or you get tossed. Dont worry, we had plenty. I'm not doing this race again, its just stupid. I can go out on an epic ride anywhere, all day and not have to put up with all the crap at Allamuchy...RAIN. The cost, the training, the mud, had it. Too many other aspects of the sport to appreciate. Ride the same loop over and over again, yeah, you couldnt even find the trail anymore. People were bagging it after 2 laps. Stupid. I also would like to know how much Brennan and the other guy make off this. I think they got something to do with the ITC Triathlon as well. They organize well but this event used to be a great little microbew 24 hr race. Now its all corporate, hush hush ********. No thanks.

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    where does the money go? whats the breakdown

    I also wonder, as stated in my first post on this thread, that there is a lack of treansparancy of where the $$ from this event goes. PMBA http://www.phillymtb.orgevents in Philadelphia, of which I am a member, donates 50% to local trails projects at least when they run events.

    anyhow...i also agree this is not a festive atmosphere. another reason we will pass next year. just lacking the vibe we want...not a party but people seem kind of ho hum about rain-a-muchy. how can they not...given the conditions we have endured year after year.

  30. #30
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    Muchy

    I think a big part of the problem in having it on the dates in August is because of the Boy Scouts. I believe they open up that area only to the race on that weekend. Big part of the money must go to the Boy Scouts. To try to do this in September sometime or even June I dont know. The weather is the weather but man, this race every year it rains. Someone must of built a house on an indian graveyard there or something. Really strange luck.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomissa
    I also wonder, as stated in my first post on this thread, that there is a lack of treansparancy of where the $$ from this event goes. PMBA http://www.phillymtb.orgevents in Philadelphia, of which I am a member, donates 50% to local trails projects at least when they run events.
    They are a small, FOR PROFIT, company and they make no claims otherwise. So why would they have to be transparent about anything? As I posted, they do pay the Boy Scouts for rental of the camp (how do I know, I asked) so that's where some of the money goes. If you are that concerned just ask them, they might answer or they might tell you it's none of your business.
    I think most of these complaints come from the fact the weather sucked, plain & simple. It sucked for the last 3 years, not the promoters fault, just bad luck/timing. If it didn't rain most of us would just be talking about the race.
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  32. #32
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    Just curious, does this for profit company give anything back to the damage they cause? TM donations or something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    Just curious, does this for profit company give anything back to the damage they cause? TM donations or something?
    Go to the source & ask them (http://www.24hoursofallamuchy.com/contactus.html).
    Jersey Off-Road Bicycle Association- Advocate, Educate and Conserve
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KirtM
    I agree with Kurt, go ask them! Perhaps if enough of you ask, you could convince them to invest some money back into the trail system. Perhaps you could suggest a nice donation to JORBA or IMBA for new equipment?

    Here's the link for you go-getters:
    www.24hoursofallamuchy.com/contactus.html

  35. #35
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    Man Kirt, these guys just want to keep making that I in your name a U.

  36. #36
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    You see, i was curious to know from the people at Jorba or people that handle TM whether they receive help before contacting them. That is why i asked.

    I emailed them. I am guessing based on replies that they don't donate to Jorba.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    You see, i was curious to know from the people at Jorba or people that handle TM whether they receive help before contacting them. That is why i asked.

    I emailed them. I am guessing based on replies that they don't donate to Jorba.
    He was being sarcastic. If they didn't take care of the trails they wouldn't have just completed the 14th edition of the 24 HoA. Even though this year was a sloppy affair, good money says there will be a 15th edition because the trails will be a-ok before you know it.

  38. #38
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    I am sarcastic person and can't really find the sarcasm in any of the above posts.

    You sound like you are assuming they take care of it, i am just wondering if anyone knows if and how they do it. If it was known maybe there would be no concern. If they respond to me i will forward on the response.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    You see, i was curious to know from the people at Jorba or people that handle TM whether they receive help before contacting them. That is why i asked.

    I emailed them. I am guessing based on replies that they don't donate to Jorba.
    I have seen your e-mail to the promotors. Oh BTW I head up the JORBA Chapter for Allamuchy for those that dont know. Even before this thread took the turn to the pridicatable, we talked with the promotors about the need for TM after the race. We are still determining the effort that will be needed to get this done. Yes work will have to be completed, no question.

    Based on our conversation thus far with the promotors they will ensure that the right thing is done. Why, they want to make sure they can hold the race again next year!!! BTW, I am not one of the promotors, I do help in hte course design with two other folks.

    As I have asked others in seperate PMs, give it a littl time and things will be worked out.

    BTW, Allamuchy Joe and Norm (and others that I missed) thanks for keeping on an even keel.

    Bob

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    Thanks Bob.

    I really was JUST curious seeing as it was a for profit organization. I wasn't trying to be all IMBAman about it.

  41. #41
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    Brian,

    I (pretty much) knew the answer, plus I know how AJ works, so I knew he was being sarcastic. Can't blame you for not having a crystal ball or the natural gift of clairvoyance.

    BobW,

    Just trying to help

    Norm

  42. #42
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    ytc: go back and look at the screen shot: conditions(a)jorba.org

    we're looking for feedback on the parks but its a select few who bother to send them to Norm.

    i suspect that it would take you less time to shoot norm an email at conditions(a)jorba.org, than it took for you to capture a screenshot, upload it to photobucket, link it here and make the post above.

    clutch, instead of focusing on smilies why not be constructive and be part of the solution. once again, its norm at conditions(a)jorba.org

    thanks for everyone's help!

    p.s. the email for reporting trail conditions is: conditions(a)jorba.org


  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KirtM
    Did you change the spelling of your name ?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    I'm not gonna flame anyone, it's just that if your pic is up there or you participated in the race........then please do not slam those who ride in less than favorable conditions. Hypocrisy is not a great trait, I was just wondering what everyone thinks of the tread lightly, UNLESS RACING, attitude.
    LJ

    Thanks for bringing this up... I totally do see your point: why tread lightly all year when a big race comes along and it rides heavily in mud? Its simply because the promoters are making good on their promise to be responsible promoters of this race and they will return and fix the situation immediately. Have trust in Bob W while he works with the promoters to make the situation right this week and next...

    In contrast, when the casual rider rolls along and rides when the trails are bad, they stay that way until you get the next clarion call from Frankie or Bob or Kirt (and then they get repaired). But that's once a month usually so those ruts made on a weekend social ride may be there for 3 weeks or more. So to keep the trails tip-top riders need to be responsible all year long and that's why we advocate staying off the trails when they're muddy.

    As social riders we have options when the trails are shyte: we can ride the road (gasp), or hit another park that drains better. What choice does a race promoter have at 11pm at night? Very few options, that don't a venue change or require a lot of people losing a lot of money. We're nimble we can make choices, a race is less nimble.

    Hypocrisy? An argument can be made, sure... but I think its a challenging situation that so far is being handled satisfactorily.

    I remember last year's downpour too and the mooch rebounded quickly. This too shall pass and in Bob I trust.


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    true.

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    I'm a born and raised Jersey boy. Now I live outside of Charlotte, NC where the local mountain biking members have pushed the parks/recreations organization to post signs at every park that it is prohibited to ride on the trails for 24hrs. after a significant rainfall. Believe it or not, this scare tactic really works. Plus, it's not worth trying to ride on wet red clay( you will go down faster than you thinking of clipping out!!) . That's where we have an advantage w/ clay, the absorption rate is nell. It's like the clay has rain-x on it. Anyway, just an idea.
    Dude,Man,Guy...Did you see that?

  47. #47
    Come on winter!
    Reputation: ytc100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mergs
    [FONT="Verdana"]ytc: go back and look at the screen shot: conditions(a)jorba.org

    we're looking for feedback on the parks but its a select few who bother to send them to Norm.

    i suspect that it would take you less time to shoot norm an email at conditions(a)jorba.org, than it took for you to capture a screenshot, upload it to photobucket, link it here and make the post above.
    The point I was trying to make with that post is that I don't understand why that conditions guide exists at all if you are allowed to race in wet conditions.
    I am assuming it is to let riders know when they should stay off the trails but it's hard to take seriously when you let whatever the number of racers it was at 24HOA run around in the mud. In my mind my occasional rides in wet conditions do far less damage than a race does. Am I wrong? What am I missing?

    Edit: I guess this was answered in your response to FlatTyres post.

    Again the real problem here is a lack of communication and education. How is the general riding public supposed to understand all of these issues? It is like pulling teeth to get answers.
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  48. #48
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    I got a response from the race coordinators:

    Thanks for your interest in our event and in the health of the Allamuchy
    trails. You seem to suggest that our event creates damage annually,
    which is a different issue than the substantial damage created this year
    due to the rains which occurred during the event. With regard to
    previous years, we have always had a crew that cleans up the course and
    remediates any trail damage. No mountain biking group, or JORBA, or the
    State Park, or any other organization has ever approached us in the past
    to complain of any lasting trail damage following our annual cleanup
    operation.

    Now, as for this year: we can appreciate anyone's concern about this
    year's damage. We have already been in touch with the State Park
    superintendent, the Boy Scout camp, and the local JORBA rep to formulate
    a plan for assessing the damage and then taking whatever steps are
    necessary to repair it. We will fund any infrastructure, staffing,
    equipment, and supplies costs necessary to complete these repairs as
    quickly as possible. We will also be reaching out to our participants
    and to various other MTB networks to recruit volunteers for TM days. We
    are hoping to be able to complete the remediation process by the middle
    of September.

    Our event has donated funds to JORBA in the past, and we continue to have
    a JORBA donation line item in our operating budget this year. JORBA has
    annually had an active presence at our event, providing safety patrol
    riders during the race from a centrally located campsite which is
    reserved exclusively for them. This year JORBA also had a promotional
    booth at our Expo area (free of charge; other sponsors pay an Expo fee
    for the same space) where they were able to provide information and
    displays and do some fundraising sales. This free Expo space will
    continue to be offerend to JORBA annually.

    Thank you for the opportunity to respond to this issue, the seriousness
    of which we do not underestimate.

    -Dan Brannen
    Co-Director, 24 Hours of Allamuchy
    info@24hoursofallamuchy.com

  49. #49
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    Reputation: mergs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ytc100
    The point I was trying to make with that post is that I don't understand why that conditions guide exists at all if you are allowed to race in wet conditions.
    I am assuming it is to let riders know when they should stay off the trails but it's hard to take seriously when you let whatever the number of racers it was at 24HOA run around in the mud. In my mind my occasional rides in wet conditions do far less damage than a race does. Am I wrong? What am I missing?

    Edit: I guess this was answered in your response to FlatTyres post.

    Again the real problem here is a lack of communication and education. How is the general riding public supposed to understand all of these issues? It is like pulling teeth to get answers.
    We do the best that we can with the free time we have. The best way to communicate is in person at a trail work day using old fashioned vocal cords. Online forums are great for some things, and not so great for others. Come out, pick up a macloed and we'll explain it to you in person.

  50. #50
    Come on winter!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mergs
    Come out, pick up a macloed and we'll explain it to you in person.

    Deal.
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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