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  1. #1
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    24 hours of allamuchy photos

    I was only at the race for the last 1.5 hours but here they are.


















  2. #2
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    nice photos

    Very nice shots. Mud, mud everywhere. I noticed not many folks use eye protection. Can someone explain that?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not So Fast
    Very nice shots. Mud, mud everywhere. I noticed not many folks use eye protection. Can someone explain that?
    eye protection would have fogged up instantly in those conditions.

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    Nice!

    Nice destruction as usual fellas. You have the nerve to tout the wanton destruction of our trails. This race needs to be stopped. It is a nuisance and ruins the forest for others. You wouldn't ride it in this condition if there wasn't a race. Why do it now?

    I am ashamed to be lumped into the same collection of mountain bikers.

    ShAME SHAME SHAME!

  5. #5
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    shut up hippe

  6. #6
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    who cares its fun and it cant be worse the the boy scouts romping around all summer on the same trails

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    Nice pix!

    Next year we will have to get you to the DH sections. Great carnage there!
    TeamBulldog.com Cyclecraft.com Mtbnj.com JORBA.org

  8. #8
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    nope next year i will be racing!!!! they need to put in a dh class, for bikes with 8+ inches of travel. im going to be buying a new bike soon. looking at a few now. haro mary ss, commencal meta 4.2, iron horse mark3 comp, transition covert. not going to spend more then $2500 not $1 over.

  9. #9
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    Allamuchy 07'

    Looking for update on this weekends race at Allamuchy. Checked Compuscore, looks like Solo riders where clocking in around 4-6 total laps average, top finishers only 7-8 laps. Not good. Whats the story? Pics look like it was a typical disaster out there. How was the course? I cant believe the heat on Sat. This race should be done in Sept/Oct.

  10. #10
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    IMBAman is back!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by YankeesRulw
    Nice destruction as usual fellas. You have the nerve to tout the wanton destruction of our trails. This race needs to be stopped. It is a nuisance and ruins the forest for others. You wouldn't ride it in this condition if there wasn't a race. Why do it now?

    I am ashamed to be lumped into the same collection of mountain bikers.

    ShAME SHAME SHAME!

    I know I am going to get trashed for agreeing with this guy but I have to say I think the trails could have used a break this weekend.
    I think IMBA agrees:
    http://www.imba.com/news/trail_news/..._14_3_mud.html
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  12. #12
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    RIP- Team Blazing Saddles Calls Allamuchy Quits

    Rain-o-mucchy is no more for Blazing Saddles.

    After 4 years (uh...i think) of very respectible top 8 finishes (i think) in the 4 person team category we bailed after 2 laps each this year. The trail conditions were already marginal, which is ok by us as we love the rocky and rooty trails, but the rain this time around was just not in the cards for us. We collectivly said "hell no."

    Our criteria were manyfold...

    Rain+riding for hours='s major crotch rot. not fun.

    Rain+ trails in the pre-existing condition="s bad trails and possible long term damage (remember running of the dogs in kittatinny 2 years ago with the rain and snow and mud flowing down the trails like lava)

    Ran+mud+hours of riding ="s messed up bikes.

    My tent flooded: bummer. even though there are easy solutions for that like camping on the raised paltforms which i did not do for some ungodly reason-???go figure.

    Also contributing this year were there issues I'd like to explore....

    1. too many unqualified solo riders. the trails were littred with what seemed like beginners this year. is this the result of 4 person teams racing as friends in the solo class? is it the result of endurance event marketing? Im not sure. comments and others obesrvations are welcome here.

    2. only 17 4 person teams. We lost 1/3rd of the 4 person teams from last year. after we bailed on lap 8 there were 2 teams 1 lap head and 3 of us at 8 pretty close i think. im yet to look at standings but yes...we bailed...but the competition has shrunk in this class every year we have been there i think. someone may look that up and challenge me on ths but it sure felt funny having 150 solos and only a handful of 4 person teams.

    3. where's all the money for this event going? active.com charges a $22.50 reg fee thats outrageous to process payments and we pay a ton of money for what seems like an event with EXCELLENT CREWS AND TIMING ELEMENTS but little beyond that with an atmosphere that is less than festive. Can someone provide a breakdown of the finding to us? i may be wrong here too so transparancy will solve that matter on behalf of the race promoters.

    Wonder what others think about this, am interested to see how many bailed...like us....and what we all do next year.

    Thanks the the 24 hr allamuchy crew and promoters for thier comittment to this event and to all the great riders weve met along the way. its been fun...

    if we make it back call me a liar...while im chasin you down the trail!

    seriously....

    thanks...its been a great event but there are many desirables that remain to be answered and addressed if this event is to survive.

    Regards,

    Team Blazing Saddles.

  13. #13
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    Lots of effort

    Conditions were tuff. Looks like suffering was had by all. I prerode on Fri and stopped in on Sun. Thanks for the Pix...
    J.O.R.B.A. More than just tm. WWW.JORBA.ORG

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    IMBAman is back!
    Yes he is, but......it is a valid point. The trail user groups advocate protecting the environment from abuse; from what I see in those pictures that place got hammered.

    So, what is the general opinion on the impact of a race like 24hr in those conditions?

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    our last lap was during the initial hour of downpours. we bailed as we knew it would be ugly. but...we need to hear from the muddy people....to qualify the real impact. it could not have been good but then again....those trails are resilient and they will bounce back.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    Yes he is, but......it is a valid point. The trail user groups advocate protecting the environment from abuse; from what I see in those pictures that place got hammered.

    So, what is the general opinion on the impact of a race like 24hr in those conditions?
    Far be it for me to stick up for the 24 Hours coordinators, but...

    After riding there for years and as part of the crew that does regular TM in Allamuchy, I can say that the trails that were used will bounce back and in a very short amount of time. Especially in Allamuchy, where the rider density is very low. The worst problems in Allamuchy are present in trails that are not used very much at all.

    There are a bunch of trails in Allamuchy that have not been touched by a race, nor are they used that much by mountain bikers/hikers/horses. I invite everyone to check out the trails by Waterloo Road -- not used in races, not used that much, but there is lots of erosion.

    Specifics? 1. From Waterloo Road parking lot, turn right onto Waterloo Road and then right into the woods onto the double track. That is one washed out trail -- not used in races. 2. From the Waterloo Road parking lot, proceed up the railtrail, turn left at Jefferson Lake. Follow that trail to the interection and turn right. Follow that trail and you will find one really washed out trail that is almost totally unridable. Again, not that much traffic there. 3. Enter at Cranberry Ledge Road and proceed up that trail. After the turn off on the right for the single track (which is used quite often and in good shape), the unused part of that trail becomes a washed out pile of rubble. 4. Another trail not used at all is in the Boy Scout camp near Dean's monument -- that one is a gulley now and has a stream running down the middle of it!!!

    There are many more examples in there of sections that need serious repair that have not been used in races and are lightly ridden by mountain bikers. Quads have done some damage, but even that is fairly minimal.

    In fact, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the trails in the best condition in Allamuchy have all been used in races and the ones that don't get used are in the worst condition. Sure, there is a lot of TM that goes on in Allamuchy, but that goes on in other parks that aren't used for racing, too. Let the flaming begin.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allamuchy Joe
    Let the flaming begin.
    I'm not gonna flame anyone, it's just that if your pic is up there or you participated in the race........then please do not slam those who ride in less than favorable conditions. Hypocrisy is not a great trait, I was just wondering what everyone thinks of the tread lightly, UNLESS RACING, attitude.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    I'm not gonna flame anyone, it's just that if your pic is up there or you participated in the race........then please do not slam those who ride in less than favorable conditions. Hypocrisy is not a great trait, I was just wondering what everyone thinks of the tread lightly, UNLESS RACING, attitude.

    Whatever. If you are concerned, contact the coordinators at
    www.24hoursofallamuchy.com -- perhaps, since they made money on the event if they hear from concerned individuals like yourself they may finance some TM work on the race course.

    PS I didn't slam you for not participating in the race -- I just stated my opinion, which you asked for, right?

  19. #19
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    I definitely wouldn't say "who cares, it is fun."

  20. #20
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    i hiked the course backwards 3 miles, all i saw was rolling fire road. there was nothing that screamed OHHH erosion that harms the environment. that picture of the guy in red riding in the mud was the worst spot i saw and it was only 20 feet long. the rest were large mud puddles. now 2006 running of the dogs that was some crazy erosion but was the most fun i have EVER had on a bike, also my first race ever, and my first time riding on a trail.

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    We were there for the 5th time and after a couple of top 5, two top 2 we finally pulled off a win! Yes there was a suprising lack of 4 person teams which was disapointing. As for the conditions, well you can't do much about that. That trail will rebound fine as it does year after year. We have raced and ridden motorcycles there for years in all conditions and the trail always comes back. Alot of those trails were cut many years ago by the Ridge Riders motorcycle club and were maintained by them and the local MTB contingent. As we no longer ride dirtbikes there, the mountain bike contingent have done an admirable job of maintaining the trail system but by themselves, they can't get to them all. As someone eariler stated, the trails not maintained are the ones in the worst shape.
    I might get flamed here as a moto guy but I don't really care. All user groups need to be concerned about image, but trust me, this area will heal quickly with a little TLC and be ready for next year.

  22. #22
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    the last running of the dogs race was sick. visuals i will never forget with that mud. and the warm, cooldown, rain, sleet, snow, rain, freezing mess it was. CRAZY!

    how did kitatinny recover? fine probably, right?

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    It's fine

    Kittatinny received 80 hours on TM in the 2 weeks post the Running of the Dogs. They are now what they were prior to that race. The race was even cancelled this year to quantify the recovery. The same respect was giving to Deer Park after its race.

    As a racer of this years 24 of Allamucy, I will agree that the trails looked just as they did when we last raced that course. In fact, my old lines were better than the new lines and I couldn't understand "where the trail went" in regards to the race. Therefore, it will definitely heal itself.

    Congrads to all the racers and support peoples who braved the weather and camping.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomissa
    3. where's all the money for this event going? active.com charges a $22.50 reg fee thats outrageous to process payments and we pay a ton of money for what seems like an event with EXCELLENT CREWS AND TIMING ELEMENTS but little beyond that with an atmosphere that is less than festive. Can someone provide a breakdown of the finding to us? i may be wrong here too so transparancy will solve that matter on behalf of the race promoters.
    I know the Boys Scouts get a their fair share for the rental of the camp. $140 for a weekend of racing is fairly cheap in my book. Look at the XC races, you pay around $35 for between 1 to 3 hrs of racing. Check out these crazy prices for Ganny Gear 24hrs races (http://www.grannygear.com/Register/p...cale&year=2007) IThe Active fee does seem a big outrageous though.

    Quote Originally Posted by jomissa
    thanks...its been a great event but there are many desirables that remain to be answered and addressed if this event is to survive.
    It's been going strong for 14 yrs & they claim to have had 50 more riders than last year, I don't think that will be a problem, but what do I know.

    I also said I wouldn't be back after last years rain, but I got sucked in any way, & also said the same thing yesterday & already have softened that stance.

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  25. #25
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    I know I'm not making any friends with this line of questioning but,

    Does this serve any purpose:



    ?
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ytc100
    I know I'm not making any friends with this line of questioning but,

    Does this serve any purpose:
    ...
    ?
    I'd say no considering I rode the Lewis Morris race course last night and it was fine. It's a bit damp but no puddles and no mud whatsoever.

    What's the deal with those smileys anyway? It was a lot easier to read when they just wrote Poor Good Average etc...

  27. #27
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    Why so many solos?

    I'll share with you my selfish reasons. I ran solos 3 times and a team twice and here's why I liked solo.
    1.) It's totally up to you and if the conditions are crappy then don't go back out, you are not letting anyone else down if you decide to throw in the towel.
    2.) Better parking. You only get one parking pass per team but you only need one as a solo.
    3.) Short walk to camp site. I like car camping and bringing all my gear but if I have to make 5 trips (that's if I can find a cart) back and forth can really sucks. Especially after staying up half the night and being exhausted.

    When I ran with a team I was in the spot across from the showers and another time up by the flag pole and I was pretty miserable hauling my stuff out all tweaked from 2 night laps and a morning lap. Last year I got the lean to right next to the office and I was 100 ft from my truck. It didn't matter that I couldn't find a cart.

    These are just my pesonal reasons, but solo was the thing for me. I think they had 147 solo riders this year and around 110 last year. Maybe someone else picked up on what was obvious to me. If I could park anywhere I would ride with a team.

  28. #28
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    Muchy

    I totally agree with a lot of you. This race is overrated. The whole 24 hr scene has become overrated. When it first began years ago with Stamstad it was new and different. Then everyone jumped on the bandwagon to make a profit. Now, its just redundant. 24 Hrs of Moab is really the only good 24 hr even next to the epic world championship. However, this race at Allamuchy is not festive at all. Christ you cant even bring a beer in there or you get tossed. Dont worry, we had plenty. I'm not doing this race again, its just stupid. I can go out on an epic ride anywhere, all day and not have to put up with all the crap at Allamuchy...RAIN. The cost, the training, the mud, had it. Too many other aspects of the sport to appreciate. Ride the same loop over and over again, yeah, you couldnt even find the trail anymore. People were bagging it after 2 laps. Stupid. I also would like to know how much Brennan and the other guy make off this. I think they got something to do with the ITC Triathlon as well. They organize well but this event used to be a great little microbew 24 hr race. Now its all corporate, hush hush ********. No thanks.

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    where does the money go? whats the breakdown

    I also wonder, as stated in my first post on this thread, that there is a lack of treansparancy of where the $$ from this event goes. PMBA http://www.phillymtb.orgevents in Philadelphia, of which I am a member, donates 50% to local trails projects at least when they run events.

    anyhow...i also agree this is not a festive atmosphere. another reason we will pass next year. just lacking the vibe we want...not a party but people seem kind of ho hum about rain-a-muchy. how can they not...given the conditions we have endured year after year.

  30. #30
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    Muchy

    I think a big part of the problem in having it on the dates in August is because of the Boy Scouts. I believe they open up that area only to the race on that weekend. Big part of the money must go to the Boy Scouts. To try to do this in September sometime or even June I dont know. The weather is the weather but man, this race every year it rains. Someone must of built a house on an indian graveyard there or something. Really strange luck.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomissa
    I also wonder, as stated in my first post on this thread, that there is a lack of treansparancy of where the $$ from this event goes. PMBA http://www.phillymtb.orgevents in Philadelphia, of which I am a member, donates 50% to local trails projects at least when they run events.
    They are a small, FOR PROFIT, company and they make no claims otherwise. So why would they have to be transparent about anything? As I posted, they do pay the Boy Scouts for rental of the camp (how do I know, I asked) so that's where some of the money goes. If you are that concerned just ask them, they might answer or they might tell you it's none of your business.
    I think most of these complaints come from the fact the weather sucked, plain & simple. It sucked for the last 3 years, not the promoters fault, just bad luck/timing. If it didn't rain most of us would just be talking about the race.
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  32. #32
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    Just curious, does this for profit company give anything back to the damage they cause? TM donations or something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    Just curious, does this for profit company give anything back to the damage they cause? TM donations or something?
    Go to the source & ask them (http://www.24hoursofallamuchy.com/contactus.html).
    Jersey Off-Road Bicycle Association- Advocate, Educate and Conserve
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KirtM
    I agree with Kurt, go ask them! Perhaps if enough of you ask, you could convince them to invest some money back into the trail system. Perhaps you could suggest a nice donation to JORBA or IMBA for new equipment?

    Here's the link for you go-getters:
    www.24hoursofallamuchy.com/contactus.html

  35. #35
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    Man Kirt, these guys just want to keep making that I in your name a U.

  36. #36
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    You see, i was curious to know from the people at Jorba or people that handle TM whether they receive help before contacting them. That is why i asked.

    I emailed them. I am guessing based on replies that they don't donate to Jorba.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    You see, i was curious to know from the people at Jorba or people that handle TM whether they receive help before contacting them. That is why i asked.

    I emailed them. I am guessing based on replies that they don't donate to Jorba.
    He was being sarcastic. If they didn't take care of the trails they wouldn't have just completed the 14th edition of the 24 HoA. Even though this year was a sloppy affair, good money says there will be a 15th edition because the trails will be a-ok before you know it.

  38. #38
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    I am sarcastic person and can't really find the sarcasm in any of the above posts.

    You sound like you are assuming they take care of it, i am just wondering if anyone knows if and how they do it. If it was known maybe there would be no concern. If they respond to me i will forward on the response.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    You see, i was curious to know from the people at Jorba or people that handle TM whether they receive help before contacting them. That is why i asked.

    I emailed them. I am guessing based on replies that they don't donate to Jorba.
    I have seen your e-mail to the promotors. Oh BTW I head up the JORBA Chapter for Allamuchy for those that dont know. Even before this thread took the turn to the pridicatable, we talked with the promotors about the need for TM after the race. We are still determining the effort that will be needed to get this done. Yes work will have to be completed, no question.

    Based on our conversation thus far with the promotors they will ensure that the right thing is done. Why, they want to make sure they can hold the race again next year!!! BTW, I am not one of the promotors, I do help in hte course design with two other folks.

    As I have asked others in seperate PMs, give it a littl time and things will be worked out.

    BTW, Allamuchy Joe and Norm (and others that I missed) thanks for keeping on an even keel.

    Bob

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    Thanks Bob.

    I really was JUST curious seeing as it was a for profit organization. I wasn't trying to be all IMBAman about it.

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    Brian,

    I (pretty much) knew the answer, plus I know how AJ works, so I knew he was being sarcastic. Can't blame you for not having a crystal ball or the natural gift of clairvoyance.

    BobW,

    Just trying to help

    Norm

  42. #42
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    ytc: go back and look at the screen shot: conditions(a)jorba.org

    we're looking for feedback on the parks but its a select few who bother to send them to Norm.

    i suspect that it would take you less time to shoot norm an email at conditions(a)jorba.org, than it took for you to capture a screenshot, upload it to photobucket, link it here and make the post above.

    clutch, instead of focusing on smilies why not be constructive and be part of the solution. once again, its norm at conditions(a)jorba.org

    thanks for everyone's help!

    p.s. the email for reporting trail conditions is: conditions(a)jorba.org


  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KirtM
    Did you change the spelling of your name ?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    I'm not gonna flame anyone, it's just that if your pic is up there or you participated in the race........then please do not slam those who ride in less than favorable conditions. Hypocrisy is not a great trait, I was just wondering what everyone thinks of the tread lightly, UNLESS RACING, attitude.
    LJ

    Thanks for bringing this up... I totally do see your point: why tread lightly all year when a big race comes along and it rides heavily in mud? Its simply because the promoters are making good on their promise to be responsible promoters of this race and they will return and fix the situation immediately. Have trust in Bob W while he works with the promoters to make the situation right this week and next...

    In contrast, when the casual rider rolls along and rides when the trails are bad, they stay that way until you get the next clarion call from Frankie or Bob or Kirt (and then they get repaired). But that's once a month usually so those ruts made on a weekend social ride may be there for 3 weeks or more. So to keep the trails tip-top riders need to be responsible all year long and that's why we advocate staying off the trails when they're muddy.

    As social riders we have options when the trails are shyte: we can ride the road (gasp), or hit another park that drains better. What choice does a race promoter have at 11pm at night? Very few options, that don't a venue change or require a lot of people losing a lot of money. We're nimble we can make choices, a race is less nimble.

    Hypocrisy? An argument can be made, sure... but I think its a challenging situation that so far is being handled satisfactorily.

    I remember last year's downpour too and the mooch rebounded quickly. This too shall pass and in Bob I trust.


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    true.

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    I'm a born and raised Jersey boy. Now I live outside of Charlotte, NC where the local mountain biking members have pushed the parks/recreations organization to post signs at every park that it is prohibited to ride on the trails for 24hrs. after a significant rainfall. Believe it or not, this scare tactic really works. Plus, it's not worth trying to ride on wet red clay( you will go down faster than you thinking of clipping out!!) . That's where we have an advantage w/ clay, the absorption rate is nell. It's like the clay has rain-x on it. Anyway, just an idea.
    Dude,Man,Guy...Did you see that?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mergs
    [FONT="Verdana"]ytc: go back and look at the screen shot: conditions(a)jorba.org

    we're looking for feedback on the parks but its a select few who bother to send them to Norm.

    i suspect that it would take you less time to shoot norm an email at conditions(a)jorba.org, than it took for you to capture a screenshot, upload it to photobucket, link it here and make the post above.
    The point I was trying to make with that post is that I don't understand why that conditions guide exists at all if you are allowed to race in wet conditions.
    I am assuming it is to let riders know when they should stay off the trails but it's hard to take seriously when you let whatever the number of racers it was at 24HOA run around in the mud. In my mind my occasional rides in wet conditions do far less damage than a race does. Am I wrong? What am I missing?

    Edit: I guess this was answered in your response to FlatTyres post.

    Again the real problem here is a lack of communication and education. How is the general riding public supposed to understand all of these issues? It is like pulling teeth to get answers.
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  48. #48
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    I got a response from the race coordinators:

    Thanks for your interest in our event and in the health of the Allamuchy
    trails. You seem to suggest that our event creates damage annually,
    which is a different issue than the substantial damage created this year
    due to the rains which occurred during the event. With regard to
    previous years, we have always had a crew that cleans up the course and
    remediates any trail damage. No mountain biking group, or JORBA, or the
    State Park, or any other organization has ever approached us in the past
    to complain of any lasting trail damage following our annual cleanup
    operation.

    Now, as for this year: we can appreciate anyone's concern about this
    year's damage. We have already been in touch with the State Park
    superintendent, the Boy Scout camp, and the local JORBA rep to formulate
    a plan for assessing the damage and then taking whatever steps are
    necessary to repair it. We will fund any infrastructure, staffing,
    equipment, and supplies costs necessary to complete these repairs as
    quickly as possible. We will also be reaching out to our participants
    and to various other MTB networks to recruit volunteers for TM days. We
    are hoping to be able to complete the remediation process by the middle
    of September.

    Our event has donated funds to JORBA in the past, and we continue to have
    a JORBA donation line item in our operating budget this year. JORBA has
    annually had an active presence at our event, providing safety patrol
    riders during the race from a centrally located campsite which is
    reserved exclusively for them. This year JORBA also had a promotional
    booth at our Expo area (free of charge; other sponsors pay an Expo fee
    for the same space) where they were able to provide information and
    displays and do some fundraising sales. This free Expo space will
    continue to be offerend to JORBA annually.

    Thank you for the opportunity to respond to this issue, the seriousness
    of which we do not underestimate.

    -Dan Brannen
    Co-Director, 24 Hours of Allamuchy
    info@24hoursofallamuchy.com

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ytc100
    The point I was trying to make with that post is that I don't understand why that conditions guide exists at all if you are allowed to race in wet conditions.
    I am assuming it is to let riders know when they should stay off the trails but it's hard to take seriously when you let whatever the number of racers it was at 24HOA run around in the mud. In my mind my occasional rides in wet conditions do far less damage than a race does. Am I wrong? What am I missing?

    Edit: I guess this was answered in your response to FlatTyres post.

    Again the real problem here is a lack of communication and education. How is the general riding public supposed to understand all of these issues? It is like pulling teeth to get answers.
    We do the best that we can with the free time we have. The best way to communicate is in person at a trail work day using old fashioned vocal cords. Online forums are great for some things, and not so great for others. Come out, pick up a macloed and we'll explain it to you in person.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mergs
    Come out, pick up a macloed and we'll explain it to you in person.

    Deal.
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  51. #51
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    Awesome

    Quote Originally Posted by seanmankiw
    i hiked the course backwards 3 miles, all i saw was rolling fire road. there was nothing that screamed OHHH erosion that harms the environment. that picture of the guy in red riding in the mud was the worst spot i saw and it was only 20 feet long. the rest were large mud puddles. now 2006 running of the dogs that was some crazy erosion but was the most fun i have EVER had on a bike, also my first race ever, and my first time riding on a trail.
    Wow the first pic is my wife who took 2nd in womens 19-39 solo and you even got me...it's weird I kind of remember someone taking pictures of random people because I did not recognize you...good stuff and some better angles than the same spot the other company uses.

  52. #52
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    why are all these posts unorganized? do i have a setting off on the mtbr website or dose everyone else see the posts are not in the order posted?

  53. #53
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    Steaming Pile Of Crap!

    What a steaming pile of total bullsh!t! There are so many things wrong with that.

    Show me the the canceled check where they gave money to JORBA or any other group for that matter. Oh, and they let JORBA have a 10x10 booth at the race. Oh, big deal. It cost them NOTHING to do that. They have a TOTAL disregard for the trails. If they really wanted to do the right thing, they would turn over the entire proceeds of that race to JORBA.

    I am so fed up with groups like that claim to do good but show no proof of it. Getting volunteers to work for FREE to fix what they created it the most assanine thing I have ever heard of. They should be PAYING IMBA Trail Solutions to come and fix the problem, not weaseling their way to a free fix.

    And the rest of you sit there and offer excuses for this trashing or say "hey, it's just a race". BS! You know damn well you wouldn't be riding those trails in wet conditions. Just look at have the posts here asking "How are the trails?" Stop making excuses for this. You all know this race should have been canceled when the rain started.


    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    I got a response from the race coordinators:

    Thanks for your interest in our event and in the health of the Allamuchy
    trails. You seem to suggest that our event creates damage annually,
    which is a different issue than the substantial damage created this year
    due to the rains which occurred during the event. With regard to
    previous years, we have always had a crew that cleans up the course and
    remediates any trail damage. No mountain biking group, or JORBA, or the
    State Park, or any other organization has ever approached us in the past
    to complain of any lasting trail damage following our annual cleanup
    operation.

    Now, as for this year: we can appreciate anyone's concern about this
    year's damage. We have already been in touch with the State Park
    superintendent, the Boy Scout camp, and the local JORBA rep to formulate
    a plan for assessing the damage and then taking whatever steps are
    necessary to repair it. We will fund any infrastructure, staffing,
    equipment, and supplies costs necessary to complete these repairs as
    quickly as possible. We will also be reaching out to our participants
    and to various other MTB networks to recruit volunteers for TM days. We
    are hoping to be able to complete the remediation process by the middle
    of September.

    Our event has donated funds to JORBA in the past, and we continue to have
    a JORBA donation line item in our operating budget this year. JORBA has
    annually had an active presence at our event, providing safety patrol
    riders during the race from a centrally located campsite which is
    reserved exclusively for them. This year JORBA also had a promotional
    booth at our Expo area (free of charge; other sponsors pay an Expo fee
    for the same space) where they were able to provide information and
    displays and do some fundraising sales. This free Expo space will
    continue to be offerend to JORBA annually.

    Thank you for the opportunity to respond to this issue, the seriousness
    of which we do not underestimate.

    -Dan Brannen
    Co-Director, 24 Hours of Allamuchy
    info@24hoursofallamuchy.com

  54. #54
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    This post is almost entirely useless. Other than your arm flailing there's almost no substance to the post.

    Mergs is a pretty integral part of JORBA so if Dan Brannen were lying, he would be in position to say as much. As for the booth, letting them have the space is immaterial to the discussion either way, at least from your point of view. So this line is the first thing worth discussing, IMO:

    If they really wanted to do the right thing, they would turn over the entire proceeds of that race to JORBA.
    My reply is that you're intentionally ignoring how the world works. People don't do spectacular things like this for the fun of it, at least not usually. Do you go to work then donate all our your earnings? As has been mentioned in the past, this is a for profit company that runs this. Assuming that the trails are fine after all is said and done, I don't see how you or anyone can fault someone for trying to make a living.

    In terms of how the trails get fixed, again, immaterial to your point. If you care only about making sure the trails are OK - and quite frankly that's all you have the ground to stand on here - it shouldn't matter if Gnomes, Republicans, Democrats, or worker ants fix the trails. The method means nothing in terms of your argument. All that matter is the end result.

    They should be PAYING IMBA Trail Solutions to come and fix the problem, not weaseling their way to a free fix.
    What is your justification for this? How can you say it should be done this way, or that way, or any way? Are you in position to say that the IMBA group would do a better job? Or that the current setup is deficient? Given that the current solution hasn't yet come to pass, I'm not sure how you can say that.

    And the rest of you sit there and offer excuses for this trashing or say "hey, it's just a race".
    Plenty of people are questioning the trails. It's not just you. People associated with JORBA, the race, and those that volunteer their time have replied. In fact, nobody said what you just quoted, the fabrication about it being "just a race." Your point would be better served if you dropped the dramatic hyperbole.

    You know damn well you wouldn't be riding those trails in wet conditions.
    This is the only valid point in your whole diatribe. And it's actually one I personally cannot argue with. I chose to not ride the next day after it had rained. And after the race I brought the issue up with people from JORBA as well as people who are involved with fixing the trails. After a lot of discussion I was content that the right thing would be done. The point that the land managers are aware of all of this, and are satisfied that there will be a satisfactory resolution, speaks volumes to the "happy ending" people are hoping and/or expecting to see.

    In the end it's not how or even why the trails are fixed. The only issue is that they are. If, at the end of the day, the trails are worse off then they were a week ago today, then you have a point that trumps anything anyone can say. At that point, I'll side with you and be a vocal critic of any race that takes place when it's wet. In the meantime, I have confidence that the right thing will be done, as it has been the previous 13 years they've run this race.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by YankeesRulw
    Nice destruction as usual fellas. You have the nerve to tout the wanton destruction of our trails. This race needs to be stopped. It is a nuisance and ruins the forest for others. You wouldn't ride it in this condition if there wasn't a race. Why do it now?

    I am ashamed to be lumped into the same collection of mountain bikers.

    ShAME SHAME SHAME!

    Just go back to Kansas and hump your little mutt Toto, then your sister Dorothy

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by YankeesRulw
    What a steaming pile of total bullsh!t! There are so many things wrong with that.

    Show me the the canceled check where they gave money to JORBA or any other group for that matter. Oh, and they let JORBA have a 10x10 booth at the race. Oh, big deal. It cost them NOTHING to do that. They have a TOTAL disregard for the trails. If they really wanted to do the right thing, they would turn over the entire proceeds of that race to JORBA.

    I am so fed up with groups like that claim to do good but show no proof of it. Getting volunteers to work for FREE to fix what they created it the most assanine thing I have ever heard of. They should be PAYING IMBA Trail Solutions to come and fix the problem, not weaseling their way to a free fix.

    And the rest of you sit there and offer excuses for this trashing or say "hey, it's just a race". BS! You know damn well you wouldn't be riding those trails in wet conditions. Just look at have the posts here asking "How are the trails?" Stop making excuses for this. You all know this race should have been canceled when the rain started.
    Dear Mr. High and Mighty;

    1) You're a moron.

    2) You matter to no one.

    3) Now go back to selling lemonade at the corner, junior.

  57. #57
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    Wtf

    Okay last I checked it started raining at around 11pm that night...the race was half over...I understand the need to maintain the trails but under these circumstances the race went on...get over it there will be trail work done to correct any issues and we will do it again next year....and probably at some point in the rain again

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bozizle
    Okay last I checked it started raining at around 11pm that night...the race was half over...I understand the need to maintain the trails but under these circumstances the race went on...get over it there will be trail work done to correct any issues and we will do it again next year....and probably at some point in the rain again
    No no, not at all. It will never rain again at this event. I promise.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bozizle
    Okay last I checked it started raining at around 11pm that night...the race was half over...I understand the need to maintain the trails but under these circumstances the race went on...get over it there will be trail work done to correct any issues and we will do it again next year....and probably at some point in the rain again
    You tell him Bozizle!

    Yankeerulz has never ridden Allamunchy, yet he's an Expert, throws down uninformed dribble........................gets a polite, well written response with a corrective action plan .......................... and immediately calls it Bull!@#$!

    Guys like that Yankeerulz are no more then a Sperm Dump

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by normZurawski
    .

    [In the end it's not how or even why the trails are fixed. The only issue is that they are. If, at the end of the day, the trails are worse off then they were a week ago today, then you have a point that trumps anything anyone can say. At that point, I'll side with you and be a vocal critic of any race that takes place when it's wet. In the meantime, I have confidence that the right thing will be done, as it has been the previous 13 years they've run this race.
    [/I][/I]


    Norm, Back to YTC100 valid questions that he got flamed for. Looks like you & Mergs could both stand on a fence in a Mooch storm without falling in either direction. Don't profess standards we should support & then cry foul when someone askes a question of clarification

    What is the point of posting trail conditions on Jorba.org if the person posting, you, doesn't necessarily believe in the merit of the process. I went out after the race as well. The trails were an absolute mess, nothing to be proud of. I turned around & rode elsewhere as you did.

    Appears conditions were updated today as "poor". Is JORBA asking all "not for profit" riders to avoid the trails until further notice, or not. Are you? While risking a few more red faces taking a position would be positive.

    Any moment now our executive director will jump in & advise that it's not appropriate to ask valid questions as YTC did, on the forum. Now that's leadership.

  61. #61
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    Many valid points have been made. Though what makes this discussion futile to some degree is the fact that the loudest and most opinionated points of view are coming from unknown posters hiding behind fake names, monikers and by recently registered members. We (those who are known, not the unknowns, but the known knowns) should try to keep our side of the discussion on the rationale high road, and not sink to a spitting match, which becomes fruitless. Obviously the issues raised here concern all of us, and we could probably solve them with legit dialogue and action. On some level I understand the use of alias', and if it's a true concern for our sport and the future access to riding areas that motivates these folks, I'd suggest a bit less ranting, less personal attacks from them and from us and a more constructive transparent dialogue.

    "Through anger, you may 'solve' one problem, but you sow the seeds for another."
    H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

  62. #62
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    HoldOnThere,

    I think you're getting caught up a little in the hand waving & dramatics as well. I have no problem having a straight discussion but we can do without the silliness about the fence and the storm. The poster I was addressing was jumping up and down flapping his arms. Maybe he means well but his message delivery is sketchy at best.

    I will assume this is your question of clarification:

    What is the point of posting trail conditions on Jorba.org if the person posting, you, doesn't necessarily believe in the merit of the process.
    I'm not sure I follow how I don't necessarily believe in the merit of the process. Are you asking me if I believe people should abide by the Trail Conditions page? That's not my decision. Ideally people would tend to ride places that drain better. But if people ride in mud, well all I/we can do is report that it was muddy before it was ridden. I'm not going to say you shouldn't, though I personally don't. That's where I'm confused. I do actually abide by the conditions. I live near Chimney Rock but ride there pretty infrequently because it doesn't drain well.

    Is JORBA asking all "not for profit" riders to avoid the trails until further notice, or not. Are you? While risking a few more red faces taking a position would be positive.
    I don't speak for JORBA in the least. As for me, sure. I would ask that you avoid trails when the conditions are poor. I believe that's JORBA's position as well.

    I think really you want to ask the question Flat Tyres did, which is, why is it ok to throw out the IMBA rules when you have a race?

    It's a valid question and Mergs attempted to answer it above. Personally, I still chose to not go out even if I thought the trails would be fine in the long run. If I were on a team, or were going for a goal or personal record, yes I would have gone out there. But I wasn't so I couldn't justify it.

    I'm not going to crucify anyone for a legitimate, sound question of what's going on. If you think that's what I was doing then you've entirely misread the tenor of my post.

  63. #63
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    Nice pix....

    Ok, so this has gone way off topic. A new thread should have been started rather than pizzin in the cheerios of a photo thread.

    Well since this has gone this way..... A year or so ago I was totally against the race thing in the rain. Cry foul, jump up and down, yell and scream. You get my drift. After watching the trails, educating myself and thinking about it I've changed my outlook.

    Racing is a part of this activity. Lots of people do it. Rain is part of our life and a bit of a bummer when it rains on a race. Can't stop the rain. I usually don't ride in the rain because I don't much enjoy it. Whatever. Then I consider an event like the 24 or even a day race and consider the work that gets put into setting it up. Lots of it. A date gets picked. Alot of people make decisions and plans around that date. Racers and their family, folks that put on the event, the park, think about it. Way more to arrange than just "should I go to a race." This is an outdoor sport rain or shine. Not really feasible to reschedule.

    More so I look at the trails. I'm no expert but I don't see and damage in the long run. And that's an opinion. This is most likely due to good trail work after the event. In one case a problem spot was really improved by the post race tm at that park. If it doesn't rain, I often think the trails improve. (another opinion) You want to see trail damage? See what a quad does especially during the first week or so of the spring thaw. I can't get over the dopes that can't stay off the trails during thaw ( bike, hike, horse, atv, moto whatever). Even the rail bed is susceptable. I'm not even going to talk about land development.

    Bottom line. I've come to terms with the race thing. Hell, I'm happy to be here. Ain't not no mtb in Iraq. Man you go to the wrong place in Afrika you can hit a mine and git blowd up.

    Hope u all enjoyed my take on it.
    J.O.R.B.A. More than just tm. WWW.JORBA.ORG

  64. #64
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    Rip

    Ryder X is on point and this board has lost decorum by some. Yes, I questioned the funding and will defer to those in the know to the real contribution of the 24HOA crew to Jorba, IMBA,, etc.

    The pics post did take over the discussion like a fly on dung...it was the first post after the race.

    As to the decisions we all make to ride or not ride in the rain...as I mentioned in the early post submitted my team bailed...and we are FAR from being the kind of people that bail from anything. Our collective "were done its its raining" was mostly due to the "GOD F**#%#$ DAMMIT ITS RAINING AGAIN! reaction than our eco- save the trails sentiment- as we have ridden thru every other year without issue and did well. We were so psyched, and delusional, to think we'd have a dry race that we just called it quits...among other reasons- my tent with my 5 yr old daughter was getting waterlogged (needed better tent placement and thet was a setup issue but too late when we noticed it at 11:30 pm.).

    I want to call in a NY Times article from last sundays week in review about the NY Times rationale for not removing archived web pages that people request be taken down due to innacuracies and or contriversal comments...the NY Times decided to not honor those requests as they basically feel this is about erasing history. The internet has changed our ability to communincte and store written material and some of what we post at a moment in time on these borads are exactly that...moments in time. Hence my softer stand on the promoters after reading the thread posts here that are in defense of them by people in the know. Message boards, this one too, have an edit feature, but i wont edit my post...its what i thought last week. this week i feel differently after reading everything discussed here....except for the one point. Team Blazing Saddles is RIP from 24HOA (indefinitly). Sad but true we will find another rainy venue next year.

    If anyone on this thread has any suggestions for a substitute 24 hour race pass it along. Maybe 24 hours of 7 springs? What about one of the 24 Hrs. of adreneline series like WV or Killington?

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jomissa
    Ryder X is on point and this board has lost decorum by some. Yes, I questioned the funding and will defer to those in the know to the real contribution of the 24HOA crew to Jorba, IMBA,, etc.

    The pics post did take over the discussion like a fly on dung...it was the first post after the race.

    As to the decisions we all make to ride or not ride in the rain...as I mentioned in the early post submitted my team bailed...and we are FAR from being the kind of people that bail from anything. Our collective "were done its its raining" was mostly due to the "GOD F**#%#$ DAMMIT ITS RAINING AGAIN! reaction than our eco- save the trails sentiment- as we have ridden thru every other year without issue and did well. We were so psyched, and delusional, to think we'd have a dry race that we just called it quits...among other reasons- my tent with my 5 yr old daughter was getting waterlogged (needed better tent placement and thet was a setup issue but too late when we noticed it at 11:30 pm.).

    I want to call in a NY Times article from last sundays week in review about the NY Times rationale for not removing archived web pages that people request be taken down due to innacuracies and or contriversal comments...the NY Times decided to not honor those requests as they basically feel this is about erasing history. The internet has changed our ability to communincte and store written material and some of what we post at a moment in time on these borads are exactly that...moments in time. Hence my softer stand on the promoters after reading the thread posts here that are in defense of them by people in the know. Message boards, this one too, have an edit feature, but i wont edit my post...its what i thought last week. this week i feel differently after reading everything discussed here....except for the one point. Team Blazing Saddles is RIP from 24HOA (indefinitly). Sad but true we will find another rainy venue next year.

    If anyone on this thread has any suggestions for a substitute 24 hour race pass it along. Maybe 24 hours of 7 springs? What about one of the 24 Hrs. of adreneline series like WV or Killington?
    if you don't like mud/rain skip Killington. i did the inaugural and it made Mooch seem easy. i for one am glad for the work the promoters do for 24HOA and The Cadre will be in attendance every year progressively moving up the podium. you've been warned.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by KirtM
    I know the Boys Scouts get a their fair share for the rental of the camp. $140 for a weekend of racing is fairly cheap in my book. Look at the XC races, you pay around $35 for between 1 to 3 hrs of racing. Check out these crazy prices for Ganny Gear 24hrs races (http://www.grannygear.com/Register/p...cale&year=2007) IThe Active fee does seem a big outrageous though.
    Peace
    Granny Gear ain't cheap, (We did Killington this year, a quality course)

    It was a extremly well run event, with great facilities (Hotel = Bed and hot water, plus the Cafe was open all 24 hours).

    I'll be going back to Killington next year for sure

  67. #67
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    Just got back from vacation and this thread is off base IMHO.

    The race organizers paid for their permit.
    The Land management people know there is a possibility of rain during the race (it seems to happen every year) and the provide the permit year after year.

    If you want to be pissed at someone, be pissed at the people allowing the race to take place, not the race promoters who are going about the process correctly/legally and taking responsibility.

    I really have no issue with the race or the conditions. After spending a lot of time on vacation being told not to touch this or that, dont walk here, because you might disrupt nature, but its ok for us to pour concrete all over the ground and build big building on top of 14,000 foot summits so more people can access it, is all total BS to me.

    As long as the race promoters are following the rules (which I believe they do every year) then I have no issue with it.

  68. #68
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    Wow...

    OMG the voice of reason has posted, thanks! And this is related to the topic.

    Thanks heythorp.

  69. #69
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    Devils advocate here,

    Well on that point it is legal and allowed for anyone to ride in the rain or any conditions and damage the trails at any time. So don't scold people on the board about riding in poor conditions, scold the land manager for allowing it. That doesn't make it right.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    Devils advocate here,

    Well on that point it is legal and allowed for anyone to ride in the rain or any conditions and damage the trails at any time. So don't scold people on the board about riding in poor conditions, scold the land manager for allowing it. That doesn't make it right.
    You like to do that, don't you? Reread post # 44.
    Jersey Off-Road Bicycle Association- Advocate, Educate and Conserve
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  71. #71
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    #44 is a better point.

    Don't get upset with those that don't agree.

  72. #72
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    This horse wont die, I'll beat it some more............

    Quote Originally Posted by heythorp
    , but its ok for us to pour concrete all over the ground and build big building on top of 14,000 foot summits so more people can access it, is all total BS to me.
    Were we talking about lift access private property in Vermont or public land in NJ

    Anyway, it seems that everyone has come to the conclusion that Allamuchy needs alot of trail work. The powers that be are asking the racers to return and help out.

    Quote Originally Posted by gt2brew
    Important notice to all riders from this year's 24 Hours of Allamuchy:

    The Saturday night rains of last weekend did more than just make riding
    difficult and dirty. This year those torrential rains, on top of the
    week of rain going into the race, resulted in some serious damage to
    some of the more susceptible Allamuchy trails. We are committed to
    remediating the damage done as a result of the event. In order to
    repair the damage as quickly as possible, we've set up a Trail
    Maintenance weekend for next Saturday and Sunday, Sept. 8 & 9. But we
    will need lots of help, and we'd like to reach out to you for some
    assistance.

    Please let us know if you can join us for the following Trail Maintenance
    (TM) project:

    SAT. Sept. 8, 8:00AM to approx. 2:30PM
    Meet at Mt. Allamuchy Boy Scout Camp, Camp Wheeler side. Coffee,
    bagels, and cold beverages will be provided at 8:00AM. At 8:30AM we
    will head out on foot to begin the TM project on the damaged trails. At
    the end of the day's project we will provide pizza and more cold
    beverages. All necessary tools will be provided.

    SUN. Sept. 9, 8:00AM - approx. 2:30PM
    Essentially the same schedule as Saturday, for as long as needed to
    complete the project.

    We have been coordinating these preparations with the Superintendent of
    Allamuchy State Park, the management of the Boy Scout camp, and JORBA.

    The first 20 people who commit to at least one full day of the project
    will receive a 50% single-rider discount on an entry fee to the 2008 24
    HOURS OF ALLAMUCHY. Depending on how many additional people sign up,
    and for how long they work, we will keep records and provide additional
    smaller discounts for next year's event.

    Please respond, via email only, to the following email address with your
    name, email address, day & evening phone numbers, which weekend day you
    can join us, for approximately what duration that day:

    INFO@24HOURSOFALLAMUCHY.COM

    We will contact everyone who responds to confirm final details.

    We will return the Allamuchy trails to their condition prior to this
    year's race, and we'll be grateful to any of you who can join in to
    help us accomplish this.

    - Dan & Paul, Race Directors,
    24 Hours of Allamuchy

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    #44 is a better point.

    Don't get upset with those that don't agree.
    Not at all upset, you usually bring up valid points.

    Mergs is the man!!!
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    I should add that I don't race. At least not locally. So if the events are held or not they don't influence my life.

    Brian, actually it does make it right if you follow the rules. Now if you don't like the rules thats a different issue. So many things are "wrong" on this planet from so many different perspectives. I won't get into those but this issue seems to be very small to get the amount of attention it gets and it happens year after year.

    The trails get fixed and if they didn't nature would fix them if humans stayed off them. Something that can't be said about all the roads and buildings humans have put here.

    You know the Grand Canyon was formed by erosion, would you like us to go fix that too?

    Ok sorry for the sarcasm but seriously, some trail beating is far from damaging the earth compared to the all the roads and buildings. Its funny how government thinks XYand Z are OK because of certain factors, but God forbid we make a trail in the woods out of dirt.


    I think some perspective is needed here. It seems to have been lost.

    If the trails were not being fixed, I agree with you but it seems like there is a TM date set up for it already.

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    Dont get it...

    If the promoters did not step up to the plate and offer to remedy the situation it woudl be a valid point.

    However, they are, so lets not judge anything until the work has been completed. If they do a cr@p a** job then complain, if they do a great job...then I want everyone to accept that as a good thing and post that it is!

  76. #76
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    I'm wasting time until i can break out of work at 2 and hit allamuchy.

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    Ah you bastard, not out of here until 3 today

    Then on the road bike.

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    Well if you factor in the 2 hours it takes to drive from Queens to Mooch on Friday, you most likely win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mergs

    clutch, instead of focusing on smilies why not be constructive and be part of the solution. once again, its norm at conditions(a)jorba.org

    thanks for everyone's help!
    I originally typed a cynical quip about the conditions page only mattering for riding groups of 100 and below, but decided to just highlight the inaccuracy of the conditions page instead.


    Quote Originally Posted by mergs
    LJ
    ... What choice does a race promoter have at 11pm at night? Very few options, that don't a venue change or require a lot of people losing a lot of money. We're nimble we can make choices, a race is less nimble.

    Hypocrisy? An argument can be made, sure... but I think its a challenging situation that so far is being handled satisfactorily.

    ...
    What should he do?

    1. Maybe he could shorten the lenght of the race? MLB and Nascar have rules that allow officials to end early based on weather. Why is our racing any more important?

    2. Maybe he could divert the riders to his rain course. I've only ridden muchy once, but there is a rail to trail and maybe some fire roads right?

    Both of these options came up last year, but nothing was done or changed. I think after the running of the dogs '06 and this years 24 at allamuchy we've shown that there are no conditions that will force a promoter to stop a race. Is it so hard to see why that bothers people?

    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    Devils advocate here,

    Well on that point it is legal and allowed for anyone to ride in the rain or any conditions and damage the trails at any time. So don't scold people on the board about riding in poor conditions, scold the land manager for allowing it. That doesn't make it right.
    Are you suggesting that we should be complaining to the land managers directly and not voicing our opinion's in an open mtb forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    Were we talking about lift access private property in Vermont or public land in NJ ...
    Please tell me about the secret 14er in Vermont. I'd really love do some snowboarding there.
    Last edited by Clutch; 09-07-2007 at 08:37 AM.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by YankeesRulw
    What a steaming pile of total bullsh!t! There are so many things wrong with that.

    Show me the the canceled check where they gave money to JORBA or any other group for that matter. Oh, and they let JORBA have a 10x10 booth at the race. Oh, big deal. It cost them NOTHING to do that. They have a TOTAL disregard for the trails. If they really wanted to do the right thing, they would turn over the entire proceeds of that race to JORBA.

    I am so fed up with groups like that claim to do good but show no proof of it. Getting volunteers to work for FREE to fix what they created it the most assanine thing I have ever heard of. They should be PAYING IMBA Trail Solutions to come and fix the problem, not weaseling their way to a free fix.

    And the rest of you sit there and offer excuses for this trashing or say "hey, it's just a race". BS! You know damn well you wouldn't be riding those trails in wet conditions. Just look at have the posts here asking "How are the trails?" Stop making excuses for this. You all know this race should have been canceled when the rain started.

    Allamuchy is in fine shape! Very ridable after this weekend's TM. In fact, it was probably ridable before the TM. Go take a look, but if you do then you won't have anything negative to say and then you won't know what to do with yourself, Mr. Anonymous.

    I guess it is so much easier to anonymously write bad things about people on a forum than to actually get your butt out there and do something constructive.
    Last edited by Allamuchy Joe; 09-09-2007 at 02:11 PM.

  81. #81
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    Why don't they just move the race up a few weeks into Sept??

    If they did this...then typically there would not be an issue with weather...and would not have to do so much trail repairt. I say typically. September is trypically bone dry, right? And....no humidty. Now, that sounds good to me.

    VGT

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    I did something

    I went yesterday and lent a hand with the TM there yesterday. The group I was with walked about 5 miles of the course and did the necessary repairs. There was another group, they probably did as much as we did.

    With all the chatter on this board I thought I would be working in some real slop. You know; the thick mud 6ft long, 4ft wide and 6 inches deep. As it turned out, the conditions on the trails were not bad. We didn't run into any of those mud holes. We eliminated some ruts and manicured the trails. The NY Yankees groundskeeper would have been proud.

    If you enjoy the trails, help out. Give some time back. You'll feel better, knowing you did.

  83. #83
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    I started riding mooch this year and i haven't been to a TM there yet. I plan on making the next one when i am around. Which would have been this weekend. I didn't want to have anything to do with fixing the trails that were damaged by the race. The TM invitation was puzzling that it asked non-racers to get out there and help when they had nothing to do with the destruction. I hope that makes sense in a non confrontational way.

    I was out there yesterday and ended up riding much of the course. It looked pretty ugly, in that you can tell it was raced in the rain type of look. Nothing a good rain storm wouldn't fix. There was what looked like a lot of dirt fill. Like 60% of the race course was filled in. I can't imagine what it looked like before or where the fill dirt came from. Or maybe it was simply raked. The course looks like it will be back to normal with the massive amount of work that was done. From looking at the amount of work done it would seem that there was more destruction done than what was implied.

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    Post race TM

    I wnated to tahnk everyone that came out this past weekend! We had 28 or some people come out to help out! And what a productive crew it turned out to be!!!

    What happened? The areas of the course that was impacted was raked out, no fill was brought it. A few areas that are always wet were armored with rock (think rock walk ways), and several larger puddle areas had drainanges cut in. All in all it was a good weekend, and it was great meeting some new folks!

    Also, it was nice to see the promoters out there as well. They were very thnkfull for everyones efforts!

    As idbrian said, give the place a little rain to wash the mud off the rocks and the park will be good to go!

    Bob

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    Do you guys use an ATV or something that looks like it has an ATV tire.

    Because i saw some fresh tracks on the raked dirt.

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    All by hand, baby!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    Do you guys use an ATV or something that looks like it has an ATV tire.

    Because i saw some fresh tracks on the raked dirt.

    Nope al the work was done by hand, well with hand tools that is! The ATV tracks are from local use, which is illegal.

    Now lets not talk about that damage!

  87. #87
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    Yesterday was my first ride in Allamuchy since the race was held and I was pretty shocked at the trail damage in some portions of my ride. I noticed widening and erosion of some nice singletrack stretches. It was clear that conditions were very muddy for the race. I also noticed some quality trail rebuilds (nice chocked stone sections over chronically wet areas) and passed the volunteers during my ride and thanked them for helping improve the trails.

    However, I would strongly agree with other mtb'ers who expressed concern about this race being held under such conditions. I never noticed much impact in the past, but seems like this year the trails really suffered. I'll be surprised if those trails recover to their original condition, but let's hope I'm wrong.

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    i forgot about the widening. that was a something that happened that probably isn't easy to fix and won't go away. there were many technical sections that racers were bypassing in ways that weren't there before. and those bypassing lines, due to the number of racers, look pretty permanent.

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    REcovery

    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    i forgot about the widening. that was a something that happened that probably isn't easy to fix and won't go away. there were many technical sections that racers were bypassing in ways that weren't there before. and those bypassing lines, due to the number of racers, look pretty permanent.

    One observation I would throw out there...while we were working on the trails this weekend, you could see new growth already starting. Much of the impact is superficial, in that seasonal growth (that will be dying off in the next feww weeks) was impacted, and will grow back next year.

    The "cheater lines" were also bloacked off duringthe work done this weekend. I think Pony Express noted this as well.

    I would hope that some of the other folks that were out this weekend would share their thoghts as well. I dont want this to come off as one sided. Also, dont take this as if I am saying there was no impact either.

    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by ponyexpress
    Yesterday was my first ride in Allamuchy since the race was held and I was pretty shocked at the trail damage in some portions of my ride. I noticed widening and erosion of some nice singletrack stretches. It was clear that conditions were very muddy for the race. I also noticed some quality trail rebuilds (nice chocked stone sections over chronically wet areas) and passed the volunteers during my ride and thanked them for helping improve the trails.

    However, I would strongly agree with other mtb'ers who expressed concern about this race being held under such conditions. I never noticed much impact in the past, but seems like this year the trails really suffered. I'll be surprised if those trails recover to their original condition, but let's hope I'm wrong.

    I think you'll be surprised at how quickly Allamuchy recovers. The park is lightly used by mountain bikers during the whole rest of the year. It does not have the density of riders/hikers or horses that Kittatinny or Deer Park has. In fact, now that there is a more established line to go through some of those rock gardens and over logs, the more the other parts of the trail will grow over with plant life to restore a nice tight single track.

    Again, check out the parts of the park by Waterloo Road -- never used in the 24 Hour Race, lightly used the rest of the year and they are in much worse shape than anything you'll see on this year's race course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idbrian
    ... look pretty permanent.
    Permanent? I don't think so. In fact, the evidence is in the property adjacent to the Green Trail in Allamuchy. The Seventh Day Eventists logged parts of their property last year and the year before -- big wide ruts from trucks & tractors, lots of brush destroyed, trees toppled -- it dwarfed anything done by this race by orders of magnitude. Take a look at it now. It is complete overgrown and there is only single track left in many of those spots.

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    i believe you if you say that mooch grows back then, i haven't been out there enough years to comment.

    i don't really see how waterloo side is so bad except for sections of the red trail. the white trail hill approaching four bump seemed to take the worst hit from the race. the were lines that made it way easier, and they weren't blocked. there was also some young trees that looked like they were snapped over. which i thought was odd.

    PS: TM must have been awesome with those mosquitos there Sunday.
    Last edited by idbrian; 09-10-2007 at 06:16 PM.

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    Incorrect information by Idbrian

    I have not seen so much incorrect crap than when IMBA man spouts off. Brian, didn't you start riding last year? When did you become an expert on trail conditions? I rode the course before and after the race and the one thing I noticed was the course mainly consisted of older atv type trails. None of the trails were made any wider that I saw and the places that were tight stayed tight. Sections of the purple, red and white trails and the rock gardens on green were already that wide. And the fill??? Did they get an army of boy scouts to haul in fresh top soil???? Jesus Chr#$%T!!!!! I ride there 2x a week, and I have been at all but one of the TM this year and frankly the trails will be in better shape AFTER the race with all the TM that was done. Oh, and I didn't race either but I was out there cleaning up anyway because it's my fav place to ride. Thanks for the pizza Dan.

    Get your story straight before you go shooting your mouth off.



    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by theferralkid
    I have not seen so much incorrect crap than when IMBA man spouts off. Brian, didn't you start riding last year? When did you become an expert on trail conditions? I rode the course before and after the race and the one thing I noticed was the course mainly consisted of older atv type trails. None of the trails were made any wider that I saw and the places that were tight stayed tight. Sections of the purple, red and white trails and the rock gardens on green were already that wide. And the fill??? Did they get an army of boy scouts to haul in fresh top soil???? Jesus Chr#$%T!!!!! I ride there 2x a week, and I have been at all but one of the TM this year and frankly the trails will be in better shape AFTER the race with all the TM that was done. Oh, and I didn't race either but I was out there cleaning up anyway because it's my fav place to ride. Thanks for the pizza Dan.

    Get your story straight before you go shooting your mouth off.



    Chris

    Hey Chris, I heard that this year's 24 HOA race slightly altered the moon's orbit as well.

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    Nice photos...

    To the folks w/ concerns. Please think long and hard about your concerns, issures or praise regarding the 24 hr race. Figure out how best to address your issues and whom to tell.

    Just spouting it here on this forum isn't very effective. In my opinion it's lame. It's like complaining about politics when you don't vote.

    My point, do something constructive with your concerns.

    Thanks for listening.
    Last edited by Stratocaster; 09-11-2007 at 11:42 AM.
    J.O.R.B.A. More than just tm. WWW.JORBA.ORG

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    Quote Originally Posted by theferralkid
    I have not seen so much incorrect crap than when IMBA man spouts off. Brian, didn't you start riding last year? When did you become an expert on trail conditions? I rode the course before and after the race and the one thing I noticed was the course mainly consisted of older atv type trails. None of the trails were made any wider that I saw and the places that were tight stayed tight. Sections of the purple, red and white trails and the rock gardens on green were already that wide. And the fill??? Did they get an army of boy scouts to haul in fresh top soil???? Jesus Chr#$%T!!!!! I ride there 2x a week, and I have been at all but one of the TM this year and frankly the trails will be in better shape AFTER the race with all the TM that was done. Oh, and I didn't race either but I was out there cleaning up anyway because it's my fav place to ride. Thanks for the pizza Dan.

    Get your story straight before you go shooting your mouth off.



    Chris

    i don't think you need to take it that far, "shooting my mouth off." i just posted what i saw, and you are incorrect to say that no areas got wider. i already posted that i have only been riding since last year and that i'm not an expert on trail conditions. go ahead get angry.
    Last edited by idbrian; 09-11-2007 at 09:10 AM.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by theferralkid
    I have not seen so much incorrect crap than when IMBA man spouts off. Brian, didn't you start riding last year? When did you become an expert on trail conditions? I rode the course before and after the race and the one thing I noticed was the course mainly consisted of older atv type trails. None of the trails were made any wider that I saw and the places that were tight stayed tight. Sections of the purple, red and white trails and the rock gardens on green were already that wide. And the fill??? Did they get an army of boy scouts to haul in fresh top soil???? Jesus Chr#$%T!!!!! I ride there 2x a week, and I have been at all but one of the TM this year and frankly the trails will be in better shape AFTER the race with all the TM that was done. Oh, and I didn't race either but I was out there cleaning up anyway because it's my fav place to ride. Thanks for the pizza Dan.

    Get your story straight before you go shooting your mouth off.



    Chris
    Easy there... Beetle Let's not scare off new volunteers. You just got back from WV, you should be super mellow and chill


    hey Brian, Chris is actually a really nice guy in person, as I am sure that you are too. So are Joe, Strat, and Bob W (and the rest of the crew down there). Please come on out to a workday and you'll be greeted by open arms and much appreciation (and make a few new friends with common interests). First year riders, or first month riders welcome. We were all newbies once.

    Strat makes a super good point... not that I am moderator or anything but I think that this thread has run its course and become fairly unhelpful and non-constructive.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratocaster
    To the folks w/ concerns. Please think long and hard about your concerns, issures or praise regarding the 24 hr race. Figure out how best to address your issues and whom to tell.

    Just spouting it here on this forum isn't very effective. In my opinion it's lame. It's like *****ing about politics when you don't vote.

    My point, do something constructive with your concerns.

    Thanks for listening.
    well said, Strat... and nice work at Stephens, my good man.

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    If you show up?

    I normally don't get angry and i think some others on this thread have shown unbelievable self restraint, but almost all of your postings are negative. If you took the time to show up at the TM and got to know the people doing the work you wouldn't get any attitude if you didn't agree. Instead you could voice your opinion face to face instead of here.

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    Maybe my posts in regards to racing or riding in the rain or poor conditions are negative, but my others are not.

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