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  1. #1
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    Who the F is removing rocks from Sidewinder/Juan/Burn?

    To the d-bag(s) that is removing/digging out the rocks from some of Santa Fe's best trails: Stop turning some of our only technical trails into wheelchair paths.
    Stop ruining our trails. Learn to ride over techy rocks or stay on Dale Ball North.
    You are ruining it for the rest of us. Leave Sidewinder, Burn, & Juan alone.

    Seriously, stop ruining our trails.

    If any of you see the person(s) doing this, please stop and let them know they are ruining our best trails. If you can, get the name of the person(s) before expressing any discontent and be sure to post it here.

  2. #2
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    Last edited by Fuglio; 09-08-2012 at 07:48 AM.

  3. #3
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    Dude, It helps me get better Strava times. ; ) but seriously my buddy was riding up there this weekend and saw a lady doing just fukn' that. INSANE!

  4. #4
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    Arghh. Was she riding or hiking ?

  5. #5
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    If possible replace with larger heavier rocks.

  6. #6
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    TJ, I haven't heard about any work, or proposed work, on those trails, I'll "dig around" and try to find out who it is and stop them.
    "babies don't drink coors" - del norte

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixbikes View Post
    Arghh. Was she riding or hiking ?
    Riding : (

  8. #8
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    Falcon Punch!
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  9. #9
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    I've seen strange lights in the area recently. Could be ETs are behind this...

  10. #10
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    I'm gonna check out the Cannondale Demo in La Tierra tomorrow, but if anyone else is likely to make it up there soon it might work to put up a small sign somewhere along the 1st stretch of Sidewinder asking other users to leave the trail the f*#k alone.

  11. #11
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    Acronyms: FYI SFFTS,nor TAOSF nor SFCT knows anything about this trailwork, So it seems to just be an individual effort.
    "babies don't drink coors" - del norte

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by delnorte View Post
    To the d-bag(s) that is removing/digging out the rocks from some of Santa Fe's best trails: Stop turning some of our only technical trails into wheelchair paths.
    Stop ruining our trails. Learn to ride over techy rocks or stay on Dale Ball North.
    You are ruining it for the rest of us. Leave Sidewinder, Burn, & Juan alone.
    You should ask SageCat if she knows anything about it...

  13. #13
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    Don't know, but will I keep up the conversation

    I try to tell every trail worker I know, "leave the rocks, keep the trail interesting." Sometimes they listen, mostly not.

    It is simply ignorance. They think they are helping. ARRGHHH. I will post a note on Pedal Queens FB to see if we can find the culprit and increase awareness. Signs might help.

    If you could all try to show up on public work days and keep telling everyone. Some are tired of hearing me. See trailsallianceofsantafe.org for workdays.

    Upper Winsor will be the next "project."

  14. #14
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    I'm going to ride through there today and post up some signs after work. Hopefully there's no more rocks removed from the trail
    I can't believe someone is doing this to our trails. The irreparable damage is heartbreaking.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by delnorte View Post
    I'm going to ride through there today and post up some signs after work. Hopefully there's no more rocks removed from the trail
    I can't believe someone is doing this to our trails. The irreparable damage is heartbreaking.
    CDaddy (I think it was him) was saying someone ripped the signs down and ripped them in half. WTF?

  16. #16
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    This would be a good sign:



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    "babies don't drink coors" - del norte

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabra cadabra View Post
    This would be a good sign:



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  18. #18
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    Last edited by rpinata; 09-08-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpinata View Post
    It's happening in the ABQ Foothills too.
    The north foothills have been getting robbed alot of there good rocks. Don't rocks controll erosion. Its getting worse every year.
    Last edited by Crash88; 08-26-2012 at 12:35 PM.
    Bandolero

  20. #20
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    Whats new....? The foothills are 1000% different than 15-20 years ago. It used to be a challenging effort to ride 365. We actually used to break wheels, spokes and occasionally frames on the tech in SFH and NFH. It used to be one of the tech-i-est trails around. It's all gone now. All the trails suck now unless you get 5+ miles away from any trailhead where hikers seldom roam. I cant tell you how many rocks I have put back in place over the years. Some really big. Otero and tunnel suffered a huge sanitizing effort last fall for the first few miles. Notice how smooth it is now? it didnt used to be that way.

    Oh. By the way.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who the F is removing rocks from Sidewinder/Juan/Burn?-gopr0029a-new.jpg  

    Last edited by De La Pena; 08-27-2012 at 09:43 AM.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  21. #21
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    I am pretty sure that parts of the Foothills can be roller bladed on without any problem.

    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


  22. #22
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    I don't know bobby sfh is still pretty tech. Lots of stuff out there. But this thread is motivating me. I'm gonna build a nice kicker smack in the middle of the trail later on this week.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    I don't know bobby sfh is still pretty tech. Lots of stuff out there. But this thread is motivating me. I'm gonna build a nice kicker smack in the middle of the trail later on this week.
    It used to be tech all over. Not just here and there. Especially Elena. Those trails used to eat bikes and bike parts. Buddy of mine broke a full suspension voodoo frame out there. I bent a fork, tacoed a wheel, broke spokes, bent cranks (this one often) and lost several derailleurs there. Now you don't need ANY suspension and I haven't broke anything there since I can remember. Half of the trails are now 10feet wide and steamrolled and can be ridden with a Huffy.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  24. #24
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    Sorry to hear about this. We have problems similar but not identical to this here in CA. People come in and steal dirt, rocks and wood chips for landscaping/gardening instead of buying these supplies lawfully. I've seen people just back their pick ups into an area and strip the landscape.

    Pebble Beach near Carmel, CA had to actually post signs telling people not to take the rocks off the beach. Each tourist that showed up would take a little piece of our coast home with them.

    They seem to have no regard to the fact they are tresspassing and stealing in the majority of cases.
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  25. #25
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    Edit:

    After communicating with Sage, I don’t believe it was her doing the work. The person they saw is definitely someone who looks like Sage. At least keep an eye out for a person like this on that trail. I at least hope that the word is out enough to limit this trail project to only what has occurred at this point.

    This is one of my favorite trails, and when I noticed the large, embedded rocks being torn out, I was very upset and vocal about it. Having my panties all in a wad, and obviously being pretty upset about it, I was easily spurred to over react.

    I should have asked Sage first, before going with that info to a public forum. Hindsight is 20/20. When I was told that they saw Sage, I overreacted and ran my mouth too soon, for sure. I definitely should have asked her before just going to a public forum with those statements. I’m certain that it was not her. Sage, my apologies for openly using info that I had not verified through you first.
    Last edited by delnorte; 09-12-2012 at 09:08 AM. Reason: my apologies

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  27. #27
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    We've only got one witch around here...

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  28. #28
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    What is really going on Sage Cat ?

  29. #29
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    What is really going on

    What’s going on is that someone with a fake name is publishing fished up gossip from anonymous sources to accuse and convict me of, dare I say it, .. rock moving….. yikes!

    I was clear in my first post that it was not me. I have tried to private message this brave person to clear this up, but they won’t reply.

    There are very few women mtbrs and trail-builders in SF, so I can understand the assumption, but not the desire to convict me. I informed Delnorte with a PM that I have been up on Sidewinder Burn only once this year, over two months ago. It could not have been me. I asked him to remove his post. Whatever “lady” he is after, is not me.

    Well, Phoenixbikes, since you asked what’s going on, I’ll fill you in on what I've been up to:Here is my volunteer schedule since January:

    From January to June I took a five-month class by the SFNF and got certified as a trail crew leader. I have spent over a hundred hours on trail crews just this year, including training YCC crews.

    In April, as a League Certified Instructor for the League of American Bicyclists, I taught several free Bicycle 123 Classes for adults and kids in Santa Fe.

    In March, I got certified for CPR, First Aid, AED, etc.

    In May, I led “bike trains” for bike to school day.

    In May, I became certified as both a crosscut and chainsaw sawyer for the SFNF. (Notice the tree on upper Winsor between PCR and Big T was cleared last weekend?)

    In May, I organized and sponsored a Northern NM Pueblos Bicycle Day for Kids: we fixed about 80 bikes and trained about 50 kids in bike safety and vehicular cycling.

    In June I went to Angel Fire and graduated from a 3-day class put on by Whistler, BC and became a certified, level 1, mountain bike instructor.

    In July and August I taught 5 clinics for Pedal Queens on Mountain Bike Basics.

    Also, a group of us revised and reprinted the New Mexico Driver’s Manual to add a section, “Bicycles are Vehicles” and got new media printed and distributed. Last month I was teaching teens at drivers ed about bicycle safety.

    All of this I did for free while working, riding, being with my family and hanging in Nicaragua.

    During this time, dirt, rocks, trees and duff have been moved, but not on the Burn, and while advocating for rough, natural lines. I invite you to join me on these work days. If you are still not clear on my position, re-read my first post. Otherwise, join the witch hunt, and then, I demand a “trial by beer.” All of the “bike shops” and all the “people on the street” and the secret “witness,” call me and let’s throw down some hops.

    I'm goin' ridin'.

  30. #30
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by delnorte View Post
    After talking to many different riders in the Santa Fe MTB community, word on the street is that Sage Cat was the person removing rocks from that trail. Everybody in the shops are saying it was her, too. WTF?????
    Apparently, there was a witness that knows her (thanks, you know who you are), that saw her during the act, whom confirmed the story.
    Please, say it ain't so.
    Also, now there is a huge wash-out rut down the middle of that trail that was never there before the best/trickiest rock feature was removed from the path. This really sucks.
    in red:
    unless you saw it you don't know.

    in blue:
    have that witness come forward so Sage Cat can defend herself 'face-to-face'.

    this whole 'I heard from someone who thought they saw and was pretty sure it's who i'm saying' is lame.

    in green:

    she says it ain't so....


    so either prove it, or stop spreading rumors....


    Note: I have no dog in this show - if she did it she has to answer for sanitizing. If she didn't some of y'all owe her an apology.
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  31. #31
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    I am also going to jump in here and comment that accusations on a user name basis, posting of private PM's and using real names on posts of accusations is a fast way to get a time out. Obviously Sage Cat is taking the high road here. Others are taking a much lower road.
    Try this: HTFU

  32. #32
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    I haven't been on sidewinder lately or seen the latest sanitizing, but I do know Sage Cat and I know that she knows more about sustainable trail maintenance than most of us and I also know that she is not one to alter a trail to make it faster.

    So I'm calling bullsh!t on delnorte's source.

    -Mike C.
    Last edited by chapman505; 09-07-2012 at 05:08 PM.

  33. #33
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    Last edited by Fuglio; 09-08-2012 at 07:50 AM.

  34. #34
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    Who needs daytime TV when you have NM forum

  35. #35
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    ..and the first snow flake has yet to fall this season.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixbikes View Post
    What is really going on Sage Cat ?
    Glad I asked. It'd be nice to know who the real culprit is.

  37. #37
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    sorry for the deletions - a previously permabanned user keeps coming back.

    he's easy to hammer....and i've banned his puppets at least 40 times....
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  38. #38
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    Last edited by rpinata; 09-08-2012 at 12:15 PM.
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  39. #39
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    Plant them Deep, they seem to only move the low hanging fruit. Notice how that 12" drop off rock on DB east has never moved (behind the house that was build post DB trail system)...I know, they developed a path around it. I'll have to plant another.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    sorry for the deletions - a previously permabanned user keeps coming back.

    he's easy to hammer....and i've banned his puppets at least 40 times....
    ..gangnam style.


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  41. #41
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    After communicating with Sage, I don’t believe it was her doing the work. The person they saw is definitely someone who looks like Sage. At least keep an eye out for a person like this on that trail. I at least hope that the word is out enough to limit this trail project to only what has occurred at this point.

    This is one of my favorite trails, and when I noticed the large, embedded rocks being torn out, I was very upset and vocal about it. Having my panties all in a wad, and obviously being pretty upset about it, I was easily spurred to over react.

    I should have asked Sage first, before going with that info to a public forum. Hindsight is 20/20. When I was told that they saw Sage, I overreacted and ran my mouth too soon, for sure. I definitely should have asked her before just going to a public forum with those statements. I’m certain that it was not her. Sage, my apologies for openly using info that I had not verified through you first.

  42. #42
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  43. #43
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    Um, what does this little vid have to do with anything ?

  44. #44
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    Phoenix, the snowflakes are falling
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  45. #45
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    Well, flakes of some kind anyway.
    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


  46. #46
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    Must be missing the joke...

  47. #47
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    Thanks man

    We're cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by delnorte View Post
    Edit:

    I should have asked Sage first, before going with that info to a public forum. Hindsight is 20/20. When I was told that they saw Sage, I overreacted and ran my mouth too soon, for sure. I definitely should have asked her before just going to a public forum with those statements. I’m certain that it was not her. Sage, my apologies for openly using info that I had not verified through you first.

  48. #48
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    Rode Atalaya the other day. The whole trail was swept clean, like a perfect sidewalk! It was like that from Wilderness Gate to the top. Strange. Not a rock the size of a dime on the whole trail. Hard to believe someone has the time and effort to do this kind of work. (Must be done for the folks who can barely walk up it with their trekking poles, let alone ride it.) Almost seems skateboardable!

  49. #49
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    Rode the South Foothills yesterday and it's a mess. So many holes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who the F is removing rocks from Sidewinder/Juan/Burn?-imag0536a.jpg  

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  50. #50
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    Yes. "Mountain Bikers for Trail Maintenance" is the group who have adopted this section. They are either doing the sanitation, or doing nothing about it. Every day for the last month rocks have been removed. Destructively removed via sledgehammer. I have called and emailed Jim Sattler and Jolynn Maestas with the City Open Space to make him aware but it has had little to know effect. Be cause I may be the only one that has attempted to contact him I invite you all to make an attempt as well and hopefully if he gets 50 emails on this very topic it will get his attention.

    This contact info has been taken from the city's webpage to I have no problem posting it here.

    Trail Watch Volunteers

    Trail Watch Volunteers are the foundation of the volunteer program - essentially, all volunteers are trained to be Trail Watch. Trail Watch is ideal for those volunteers who enjoy using the trails. Often referred to as Open Space "eyes and ears", these volunteers patrol areas of their choice and record observations, report problems and needs, and educate the public on proper resource use.

    Call Jolynn Maestas at 452-5207 or email jmaestas@cabq.gov for information.
    Adopt-an-Open Space

    As an extension of the Trail Watch Volunteer program, the Adopt-an-Open Space program was formed to concentrate stewardship in a targeted area. TWV duties are applied, but adopters also agree to organize at least one group project per year. Some areas may require more scheduled projects within a year. In the foothills, individuals or groups can adopt trails and assist with the essential maintenance of these visitor corridors. In the bosque, groups of 10 or more can adopt restoration areas and help with non-native plant control and trail maintenance. At the City's expense, a sign is installed in the adopted area recognizing the adopters efforts.

    Call Jim Sattler at 452-5213 or email jsattler@cabq.gov for information.



    Please take a moment to contact both of them by email, phone, or both and send them any pictures or pertinent information so this madness can be addressed.



    Albuquerque Open Space Trail Damage at Copper Trail 365
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  51. #51
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    OK, OK, That would be me, im sneaking over from oz and diggin the rocks out..and takin a few home too....You guys got nice rocks, what can i say.....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  52. #52
    What? There's more?
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    Not to belabor a subject, but I just got back from SFHN (Trail 365) and someone has been 'improving' the trail. Lots of rocks missing, as in gone from the trail and not even within sight. What's the protocol for putting them back? Anyone know if the FS is OK with that? I suppose they could be preparing it for asphalt. That is about all that is left to do there... except maybe add some streetlights and guardrails.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrebyter View Post
    Not to belabor a subject, but I just got back from SFHN (Trail 365) and someone has been 'improving' the trail. Lots of rocks missing, as in gone from the trail and not even within sight. What's the protocol for putting them back? Anyone know if the FS is OK with that? I suppose they could be preparing it for asphalt. That is about all that is left to do there... except maybe add some streetlights and guardrails.
    A whole thread discussing the problem (the title is a bit misleading tho):
    Mountain Bikers for Trail Maintenance
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  54. #54
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    Thanks for the lead. Still, do you have to get special dispensation from the Vatican to put rocks back? Is merely holding a shovel in the NF a $300 fine? Would really like to put some challenge back into the trail.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrebyter View Post
    Thanks for the lead. Still, do you have to get special dispensation from the Vatican to put rocks back? Is merely holding a shovel in the NF a $300 fine? Would really like to put some challenge back into the trail.
    You can try putting them back, but in this dry climate, once a rock is out it almost always stays out. Unless you just like loose rocks cluttering the trail. That is why everyone, including me, is pissed about them being removed.
    Placitas Tim

  56. #56
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    No good The Sanitizer hits Placitas!

    There have been a number of big rocks removed from trails in Placitas. PATA will be posting notices at the points on the trails were the damage has been done. We don't have many rocks on a lot of the trails in Placitas. Each one removed is like a lost child. PATA members ride the trails a lot in Placitas, and there will be a reckoning of the Sanitizer is caught!

    Below is a pic is just one example of the trail damage in Placitas. All the rocks on the right use to be embedded in the trail.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Who the F is removing rocks from Sidewinder/Juan/Burn?-2012-11-11-12.57.54.jpg  

    Placitas Tim

  57. #57
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    Sanitizer in NFH

    Was out in the NFH this afternoon and looks like a few rocks have been cleared off the trail. What I thought was a little more disturbing on a quick flow section there is a small rock jump on the right where a loose rock placed in the LZ making for a "rough" landing at best. Line to the left looked perfectly groomed just waiting for pavement.

  58. #58
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    That is more disturbing than removed rocks. I saw some loose rocks looking like they were intentionally placed in the SFH. Of course I wasn't jumping anything... Also seen cactus spread on the trail though not an issue with tubeless.

  59. #59
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    Has anybody bothered to think out side the box that maybe the rocks are sick of getting donged on the head by bike tyres so maybe at night they dig themselves out and wriggle over to the side of the path themselves?
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Has anybody bothered to think out side the box that maybe the rocks are sick of getting donged on the head by bike tyres so maybe at night they dig themselves out and wriggle over to the side of the path themselves?
    Your beaming intellect cuts through darkness.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Has anybody bothered to think out side the box that maybe the rocks are sick of getting donged on the head by bike tyres so maybe at night they dig themselves out and wriggle over to the side of the path themselves?
    Its possible. If the rocks are wriggling off to the side they might start grouping together making a berm

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by crux View Post
    Its possible. If the rocks are wriggling off to the side they might start grouping together making a berm
    Hehehe, now ive got you guys thinking see it takes a poor Aussie to teach the Americans a thing or two about the habits of their own sneaky rocks, rocks do all kinds of things at night, and yes ive seen them wiggling about, its more common than you guys think.
    The only way to stop them is to beat them with a stick and abuse the s**t outa them, they will stop, but it takes a lot of beating them believe me......
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  63. #63
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    Obligatory

    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Hehehe, now ive got you guys thinking see it takes a poor Aussie to teach the Americans a thing or two about the habits of their own sneaky rocks, rocks do all kinds of things at night, and yes ive seen them wiggling about, its more common than you guys think.
    The only way to stop them is to beat them with a stick and abuse the s**t outa them, they will stop, but it takes a lot of beating them believe me......
    *Rock* stole my baby!
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by notaknob View Post
    *Rock* stole my baby!

    LOL. That was good.

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    Close to Perfection

    You guys only need to remove a few more rocks from the SFH trails, then I won't have to slow down as much on my road bike.



    Moo

  66. #66
    Int'l Man of Leisure
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    The South Foothills sanitization is totally ridiculous!

    Someone spent quite a while to chisel/saw this rock in the trail (thx to my neighbor, David for the pic):

    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


  67. #67
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    Thats off the switch backs on U-Mound? If so its been gone a while(over a month) i tried putting it back twice and it just got moved again..... if your going down that direction you can head left at the power line poles at the top and get some rocky goodness that way

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    Seems like its like that from one end to the other of the SFH.How the heck has this person not been seen with the hours and hours all this sanitizing took. Must have been at night. Lets hope he is done.
    Last edited by mtbike52; 01-13-2013 at 07:53 PM. Reason: spelling
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

  69. #69
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    R.A.T.S. Riders Against Trail Sanitation. We are forming a group here in Far-Nor-Cal to try & stop just this kind of shtuff.
    I also like the trail sign, where can I get one?
    Oldest daughter doesn't ride.

  70. #70
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    Has me feeling ill

    U mound was definitely hit again. Thinking there's but a single spot left on those switchbacks where you have to pop your front wheel. This last round chiseled 3 spots for certain, all since last Sunday, sigh. Same round also worked over the water bar berms in the bowl around copper. So it's someone with a pick AND shovel, grrrr.

    Thinking myself it must be some retiree, getting after it on a week day when everyone who cares about such vandalism is at work.

  71. #71
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    Last week we came across a group of people walking their dogs. It was all smiles and how are you until someone mentioned the trail vandal. Each person in the group showed disgust, one of them strung together some colorful expletives even. It isn't just the bikers that this is upsetting.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

    -cabra cadabra

  72. #72
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    My neighbor has been hiking in the S Foothills for 15 yrs and he says the sanitizing is even worse above the trails we can ride bikes on:

    "...in several places some tall chollas, some oaks, other prickly pears, etc completely butchered or ripped out next to the trails..."
    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


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