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  1. #1
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    Three Bottles technical trail build

    The Three Bottles technical trail build is a GO! Pretty much the last of the red tape has been cleared and signed off on. Kerry informed us today. We had hoped to get started last year. But with the Forest clousure and the issues in Washington, that got pushed back. For you tech lovers, this is a great chance to get in on building some fun advanced features. For the XC guys. All features will have a bypass. Kerry will be working on the dates and post before long. Hope to see you out there. I am personally pumped about this project. Good technical trails are a rare thing for the forest service. Hopefully this will lead to more in the future.
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    Its gonna be good! tons of potential and were gonna use all of it.

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    That's awesome news. As far as I know, this is the first step that land managers have made to bring specific technical riding planning to Albuquerque area trails. It's great to see land managers working to accomodate modern user requirements/desires. It's also great to see my good friends working directly with this process. Kudos to all of you guys, your efforts and your vision.
    I can't wait to see the finished product. I hope to be able to help on a workday, even if it is a bit far from Santa Fe. I love riding that area.

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    Whoop!

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    Quote Originally Posted by delnorte View Post
    That's awesome news. As far as I know, this is the first step that land managers have made to bring specific technical riding planning to Albuquerque area trails. It's great to see land managers working to accomodate modern user requirements/desires. It's also great to see my good friends working directly with this process. Kudos to all of you guys, your efforts and your vision.
    I can't wait to see the finished product. I hope to be able to help on a workday, even if it is a bit far from Santa Fe. I love riding that area.
    ^^^ this!

    Plus we don't have to hear the griping that there is no B line alternative.

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    Thanks for the update, Stevie. Looking forward to see what we can come up with out there. We've had a year to think about it. Closures are looming, so the sooner the better. How are the inroads up there? It's still a little sloppy down low and along the West Ridge. The snow is melting fast.

  7. #7
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    Its great to see everyone who stepped up (and showed up) to make this happen. Big thanks to you Steve, for making being our conduit, and sticking to it

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    Its great to see everyone who stepped up (and showed up) to make this happen. Big thanks to you Steve, for making being our conduit, and sticking to it
    The real thanks has to go to Kerry. Without him backing us on this project and getting through the red tape. And plenty of it. There would be no Three Bottles Technical Trail. There's still a bit of winter to get through, but spring is near. Conditions at 3-B are still a little tough to get started yet. We will get started as soon as conditions allow.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by delnorte View Post
    It's great to see land managers working to accomodate modern user requirements/desires. It's also great to see my good friends working directly with this process. Kudos to all of you guys, your efforts and your vision.
    Agreed... good to see the Bando's stepping up!!!
    Dug-Da-Goat

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    ...so welcome to the Odyssey!

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    Riding out my door in Santa Fe most of the time means I have not ridden much in ABQ. I am interested in possibly helping nevertheless. Where exactly in the ABQ area will 3 Bottles be located?

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    Quote Originally Posted by beastmaster View Post
    Riding out my door in Santa Fe most of the time means I have not ridden much in ABQ. I am interested in possibly helping nevertheless. Where exactly in the ABQ area will 3 Bottles be located?
    Three Bottles is in the East Mtns. In the Otero area. Between Otero Canyon and David Canyon. Lots of great trails in that area. We would love to have you help out. Anyone is welcome. The more help the better.
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    <---- standing by, shovel in hand
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    Quote Originally Posted by swildnm View Post
    <---- standing by, shovel in hand
    Awesome! Another thing that has not been mentioned much is that there will also be a phase 2 of the build. This will extend Three Bottles at the north end on down to tie in with Blue Ribbon trail. This will bypass the double track. This section looses all the chunk and will have more flow and some table tops and such. Fast and fun! This will hopefully happen next year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbike52 View Post
    Awesome! Another thing that has not been mentioned much is that there will also be a phase 2 of the build. This will extend Three Bottles at the north end on down to tie in with Blue Ribbon trail. This will bypass the double track. This section looses all the chunk and will have more flow and some table tops and such. Fast and fun! This will hopefully happen next year.
    There are potentially some really good sections in there. I would be interested to see the projected route. Matter of fact, there's probably more potential there than 3B's proper, due to the slope.

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    I'm in! Just tell me what to do!

  16. #16
    but i want to ride now
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    Just curious mtbike52, why is the build being split into two phases, particularly given it looks like there'll be plenty of helping hands. Is there a policy reason I'm not aware of?
    sweet sweet trails

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    Quote Originally Posted by aldousfilcher View Post
    Just curious mtbike52, why is the build being split into two phases, particularly given it looks like there'll be plenty of helping hands. Is there a policy reason I'm not aware of?

    Other people could be more specific. but basically the entire trail has to be mapped and planed. before that can happen the area and trail has to be approved. after the trail is mapped and allowed to exist then the biologist geologist and archeologists all have to sign off on the area. There's a lot of moving pieces with a bunch of different people. Attempting to do the entire trail at once would have doubled the work load for everyone involved at every step. doing half at a time is more realistic... i think the rule fore counting volunteers is dividing the number of people who promised they would come by 3( guilty myself)

    So its just about being realistic.

    personally i don't mind the time it takes as long as the gears are moving.. the trail existing at all is a big deal Its going to be alot of fun.. i think a lot of people in town are more interested in technical riding then before, and are eager to get the trail started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    Other people could be more specific. but basically the entire trail has to be mapped and planed. before that can happen the area and trail has to be approved. after the trail is mapped and allowed to exist then the biologist geologist and archeologists all have to sign off on the area. There's a lot of moving pieces with a bunch of different people. Attempting to do the entire trail at once would have doubled the work load for everyone involved at every step. doing half at a time is more realistic... i think the rule fore counting volunteers is dividing the number of people who promised they would come by 3( guilty myself)

    So its just about being realistic.

    personally i don't mind the time it takes as long as the gears are moving.. the trail existing at all is a big deal Its going to be alot of fun.. i think a lot of people in town are more interested in technical riding then before, and are eager to get the trail started.
    ^this. And, I'll add that this is likely to be a very busy fire season for Kerry. Although, the confidence we build with the power that be might provide an opportunity to schedule some pre-approved work without supervision. However, if we don't get something soon in the way of moisture, there will only be a small window of opportunity due to closure.

    Let the rain dancing commence!

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    Also, it wouldn't hurt to pick Kerry's brain on the extension so we can get in there and scout that area for possible features.

  20. #20
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    took an act of congress and the blessings of archi-pueblo types just to get this far. Kerry stayed on it. Kerry had a few guidelines for trail building, after that he let who showed up, pick the line. No whining about how techie it is if you didnt show up (ahem...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    took an act of congress and the blessings of archi-pueblo types just to get this far. Kerry stayed on it. Kerry had a few guidelines for trail building, after that he let who showed up, pick the line. No whining about how techie it is if you didnt show up (ahem...)
    It's not super technical in it's totality. There are some technical features intermittent on an otherwise "slow" track. More of an accent to 3'Bs proper, IMO.

    Like I said, I think the extension has real potential for a true "expert" line. Delnorte probably remembers HAB'ing it with me a few years back in the opposite direction.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by onetwothree View Post
    ^this. And, I'll add that this is likely to be a very busy fire season for Kerry. Although, the confidence we build with the power that be might provide an opportunity to schedule some pre-approved work without supervision. However, if we don't get something soon in the way of moisture, there will only be a small window of opportunity due to closure.

    Let the rain dancing commence!
    And I might add that both are pretty big builds on their own. There are also project leftover from last year that Kerry prob wants to complete. We can't hog all the build time this year. Plus Rory is working on something that could make a big difference in the phase twe build. Chance for forest closure is a big reason to start early, get phase 1 done and hit that $h1t before closure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbike52 View Post
    And I might add that both are pretty big builds on their own. There are also project leftover from last year that Kerry prob wants to complete. We can't hog all the build time this year. Plus Rory is working on something that could make a big difference in the phase twe build. Chance for forest closure is a big reason to start early, get phase 1 done and hit that $h1t before closure.
    Nice!

    I'm gonna head over to BLM today and talk about adding some trails on the West side of Red Mesa as an alternative to the East side. It's getting quite popular, and I'd hate to see any animosity develop with the trials peeps. Plus, it's a clean slate.

  24. #24
    JXG
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    Sounds good. I hung out with a bunch of NMTA members the other week and did not get any sense that MTB'ers concern them. Lots of acreage out there. But more trails would be good. Will definitely be interested in hearing how the discussion goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jg1990 View Post
    Sounds good. I hung out with a bunch of NMTA members the other week and did not get any sense that MTB'ers concern them. Lots of acreage out there. But more trails would be good. Will definitely be interested in hearing how the discussion goes.
    I'm not saying that there is any concern whatsoever, but with the amount of people, and the potential of losing trails at White Mesa bringing even more traffic, it would be nice to have some alternatives. There is actually more "rideable" terrain on the West side of the ridge. I've had discussions with the recreational director at BLM. I'm sure it will be a relatively slow process, but the good news is there have been inroads into the area already. They are just currently closed to motorized traffic. Although, I think BLM takes a different stance with regard to lumping MTB's into the "motorized" crowd.

  26. #26
    JXG
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    Curious what the issue is potentially losing White Mesa trails

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    Quote Originally Posted by jg1990 View Post
    Curious what the issue is potentially losing White Mesa trails
    The White Mesa Mine leases a parcel of that land, which they have granted easement for the trail system, from BLM. They have already forced the name change due to unwanted traffic, and at the same time they were discussing that a year ago they were also warning of expanding the mine into that easement in the near future.

  28. #28
    JXG
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    Interesting. I wondered about the gypsum as a mineral resource when riding out there.

    Speaking of the BLM, there is a guy in Utah who is spending a lot of office time due to a bike accident. He has provided his phone number and offered to discuss the ins and outs of BLM trail building:

    Ask a public lands planner

    He recommends reading the "National Mountain Bicycling Strategic Action Plan"

    BLM National Mountain Bicycling Strategic Action Plan

    This is 2002 but still current. It contains this statement:

    "...based on analysis of the issues and concerns, and the specific differences between the activities, BLM determined in the final strategy that management of mountain bicycle and other nonmotorized vehicle use warranted its own strategy and management guidance."

    So we are often considered a separate category in the Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) and "travel management" policies that the whole Dept of Interior is working these days.

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    BLM is often much easier to work with as "recreation" is a main focus. It sorta helps distract from some of the other "ventures."

    In all seriousness, it's awesome to see someone who's willing to go above and beyond to help with the negotiation process. I think we have good chance of adopting some of that space. As you look at the map, though, you will see that the space is managed a little differently. The yellow that you see on the West side and down towards White RIDGE is all managed by BLM. The other stuff in pink/purple, including the current stuff at Red Mesa falls under The Bankhead Jones Farm Act, which presumably means one only needs to make a reasonable case for being there.

    Map Link

    Three Bottles technical trail build-los_alamos.jpg



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    Oh, and thanks for the info., jg1990. I posted a link to this thread for the BLM inside/outside guy.

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    You are welcome. We've drifted a bit off topic from Three Bottles. Would definitely be interested in learning more as your discussion with BLM progresses... perhaps a new thread? Have to admit I'm curious about how RM got carved into such an interesting land category, but that can wait

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    I like how the section you circled is the actual red mesa.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    I like how the section you circled is the actual red mesa.
    Good observation!

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    Cursory Review

    Hi I'm the Referenced BLM guy.

    After just an inital review, the land is managed under a specific act tied to the Secretary of Agriculture (Think Forest Service). The BLM is managed under the Secretary of the Interior. You may have already done this background, but with the added surrounding Native american lands, you need to determine which direction the Secretary of Agriculture is planning for the ground. They can shift management or ownership under the act. IE, it could be released to the tribe, or to the BLM, or to private ownership. The mining lease on the purple should be managed through Agriculture, or as an attached (multiple agency) agreement) throught he interior. This is a bit of an anomally for me. Haven't seen it before. For planning purposes, check with your Local BLM office for its RMP decision. If this land is in the realy section of the Resource management plan to acquire, you could identify if the BLM wants to manage it in the future. Thanks for posing the question. From the hip, it would be difficult to designate a trail/system without knowing the future management plan for the area, and who/whom will be the responsible agency. Hope that helps and isn't too confusing. Keep me posted, and I can reach out to the field office recreation planner if you would like

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    PS thanks for the well wishes :)

    I'm about 5 weeks out from pedaling Stationary bike only right now. Everything healed accept ribs and broken shoulder

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    Im still real excited about three bottles! !! I cant wait to get out and start working on it. It will be interwsting to see how the trail develops. Slow and choppy with big moves. Fast tight and scary? Its yet to be seen . Im looking forward to meeting alot of new riders out there, during construction and after.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonoutside313 View Post
    Hi I'm the Referenced BLM guy.

    After just an inital review, the land is managed under a specific act tied to the Secretary of Agriculture (Think Forest Service). The BLM is managed under the Secretary of the Interior. You may have already done this background, but with the added surrounding Native american lands, you need to determine which direction the Secretary of Agriculture is planning for the ground. They can shift management or ownership under the act. IE, it could be released to the tribe, or to the BLM, or to private ownership. The mining lease on the purple should be managed through Agriculture, or as an attached (multiple agency) agreement) throught he interior. This is a bit of an anomally for me. Haven't seen it before. For planning purposes, check with your Local BLM office for its RMP decision. If this land is in the realy section of the Resource management plan to acquire, you could identify if the BLM wants to manage it in the future. Thanks for posing the question. From the hip, it would be difficult to designate a trail/system without knowing the future management plan for the area, and who/whom will be the responsible agency. Hope that helps and isn't too confusing. Keep me posted, and I can reach out to the field office recreation planner if you would like
    Thank you!

    *sorry for the thread diversion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    Im still real excited about three bottles! !! I cant wait to get out and start working on it. It will be interwsting to see how the trail develops. Slow and choppy with big moves. Fast tight and scary? Its yet to be seen . Im looking forward to meeting alot of new riders out there, during construction and after.
    I think it will be a little of both, and too am excited to "break ground." Would be nice to hear any plans with regard to the extension as well.

  39. #39
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    TIME HAS COME! Looks like the build will start in just a couple of weeks. Kerry is looking at starting on Sun the 23rd. This will involve a short reroute on the north end and putting up signage to make Three Bottles official. We are going to need all the help we can get for the build. So all you guys that said you wanted to help out. Time to put your shovel where your mouth is. Kerry would like to put together an email list for those that are interested. You can PM me or Kerry with your email add. Further dates will be posted here and sent to your email . Looking forward to meeting you out at Three Bottles. Lets go build some cool fearures so we can HIT THAT $H!T
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbike52 View Post
    TIME HAS COME! Looks like the build will start in just a couple of weeks. Kerry is looking at starting on Sun the 23rd. This will involve a short reroute on the north end and putting up signage to make Three Bottles official. We are going to need all the help we can get for the build. So all you guys that said you wanted to help out. Time to put your shovel where your mouth is. Kerry would like to put together an email list for those that are interested. You can PM me or Kerry with your email add. Further dates will be posted here and sent to your email . Looking forward to meeting you out at Three Bottles. Lets go build some cool fearures so we can HIT THAT $H!T
    Here are just some of the boulders and chunk that we will be building through,over and off of. Its going to be good stuff. And for the xc guys, there will be a high and low by pass to cruise on through.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-005.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-006.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-007.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-008.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-009.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-010.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-002.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-003.jpg  

    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

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    I'll be there sunday for sure! Its gonna be fun building it all together. .... Im thinking of buying a wench (portable) to drag big rocks around. Anyone know where to get one or if it would be a waste..?

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    What are you gonna name her? I hope she's big and ugly with crooked teeth!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skelldify View Post
    What are you gonna name her? I hope she's big and ugly with crooked teeth!
    If we all bring a wench only good things would come of it

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    Load Limiter by GRIPHOIST - Load Binders by Zoro Tools Industrial Supplies

    This is the benchmark for moving rock but we'll probably stick with rock bars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skerry00 View Post
    Load Limiter by GRIPHOIST - Load Binders by Zoro Tools Industrial Supplies

    This is the benchmark for moving rock but we'll probably stick with rock bars.
    Ouch, there has to be a more dangerous, less effective, less expensive model

  46. #46
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    Aye lad, we have a fine winch aboard by the name "More Power Puller" but will defer to Captain Skerry on deployment

    The Wyeth-Scott Co. - portable winches | cable puller | come along winches

  47. #47
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    The technique is to wrap the rock with flat webbing "chokers", such as tow straps. The straps tighten up and grip the rock securely. Great care and caution are advised

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by vandolero1 View Post
    Yeah, I'm not familiar with the rocks that Fugs speaks of so might be way outa line here. I don't think it's worth the investment as long as we get a good showing.
    Once you have the ability to drag rocks you start looking at the terrain differently. It makes more things possible. Being able to move large rocks is important.

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    I have a HiLift jack that can be used for winching up to 5000lb, But along with the heavy, clunky jack, the winch kit has 20ft of 3/8 chain to haul around. So if somebody is willing to help with the toting, that is a possibility. I've also got an assortment of tree saver straps and other 4x4 recovery gear that would work for moving rocks.
    "You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning." ShakyPuddin

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    Sweet we might have to use it on a "stick in the mud"

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