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  1. #26
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    Curious what the issue is potentially losing White Mesa trails

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jg1990 View Post
    Curious what the issue is potentially losing White Mesa trails
    The White Mesa Mine leases a parcel of that land, which they have granted easement for the trail system, from BLM. They have already forced the name change due to unwanted traffic, and at the same time they were discussing that a year ago they were also warning of expanding the mine into that easement in the near future.

  3. #28
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    Interesting. I wondered about the gypsum as a mineral resource when riding out there.

    Speaking of the BLM, there is a guy in Utah who is spending a lot of office time due to a bike accident. He has provided his phone number and offered to discuss the ins and outs of BLM trail building:

    Ask a public lands planner

    He recommends reading the "National Mountain Bicycling Strategic Action Plan"

    BLM National Mountain Bicycling Strategic Action Plan

    This is 2002 but still current. It contains this statement:

    "...based on analysis of the issues and concerns, and the specific differences between the activities, BLM determined in the final strategy that management of mountain bicycle and other nonmotorized vehicle use warranted its own strategy and management guidance."

    So we are often considered a separate category in the Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) and "travel management" policies that the whole Dept of Interior is working these days.

  4. #29
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    BLM is often much easier to work with as "recreation" is a main focus. It sorta helps distract from some of the other "ventures."

    In all seriousness, it's awesome to see someone who's willing to go above and beyond to help with the negotiation process. I think we have good chance of adopting some of that space. As you look at the map, though, you will see that the space is managed a little differently. The yellow that you see on the West side and down towards White RIDGE is all managed by BLM. The other stuff in pink/purple, including the current stuff at Red Mesa falls under The Bankhead Jones Farm Act, which presumably means one only needs to make a reasonable case for being there.

    Map Link

    Three Bottles technical trail build-los_alamos.jpg



  5. #30
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    Oh, and thanks for the info., jg1990. I posted a link to this thread for the BLM inside/outside guy.

  6. #31
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    You are welcome. We've drifted a bit off topic from Three Bottles. Would definitely be interested in learning more as your discussion with BLM progresses... perhaps a new thread? Have to admit I'm curious about how RM got carved into such an interesting land category, but that can wait

  7. #32
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    I like how the section you circled is the actual red mesa.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    I like how the section you circled is the actual red mesa.
    Good observation!

  9. #34
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    Cursory Review

    Hi I'm the Referenced BLM guy.

    After just an inital review, the land is managed under a specific act tied to the Secretary of Agriculture (Think Forest Service). The BLM is managed under the Secretary of the Interior. You may have already done this background, but with the added surrounding Native american lands, you need to determine which direction the Secretary of Agriculture is planning for the ground. They can shift management or ownership under the act. IE, it could be released to the tribe, or to the BLM, or to private ownership. The mining lease on the purple should be managed through Agriculture, or as an attached (multiple agency) agreement) throught he interior. This is a bit of an anomally for me. Haven't seen it before. For planning purposes, check with your Local BLM office for its RMP decision. If this land is in the realy section of the Resource management plan to acquire, you could identify if the BLM wants to manage it in the future. Thanks for posing the question. From the hip, it would be difficult to designate a trail/system without knowing the future management plan for the area, and who/whom will be the responsible agency. Hope that helps and isn't too confusing. Keep me posted, and I can reach out to the field office recreation planner if you would like

  10. #35
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    PS thanks for the well wishes :)

    I'm about 5 weeks out from pedaling Stationary bike only right now. Everything healed accept ribs and broken shoulder

  11. #36
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    Im still real excited about three bottles! !! I cant wait to get out and start working on it. It will be interwsting to see how the trail develops. Slow and choppy with big moves. Fast tight and scary? Its yet to be seen . Im looking forward to meeting alot of new riders out there, during construction and after.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonoutside313 View Post
    Hi I'm the Referenced BLM guy.

    After just an inital review, the land is managed under a specific act tied to the Secretary of Agriculture (Think Forest Service). The BLM is managed under the Secretary of the Interior. You may have already done this background, but with the added surrounding Native american lands, you need to determine which direction the Secretary of Agriculture is planning for the ground. They can shift management or ownership under the act. IE, it could be released to the tribe, or to the BLM, or to private ownership. The mining lease on the purple should be managed through Agriculture, or as an attached (multiple agency) agreement) throught he interior. This is a bit of an anomally for me. Haven't seen it before. For planning purposes, check with your Local BLM office for its RMP decision. If this land is in the realy section of the Resource management plan to acquire, you could identify if the BLM wants to manage it in the future. Thanks for posing the question. From the hip, it would be difficult to designate a trail/system without knowing the future management plan for the area, and who/whom will be the responsible agency. Hope that helps and isn't too confusing. Keep me posted, and I can reach out to the field office recreation planner if you would like
    Thank you!

    *sorry for the thread diversion.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    Im still real excited about three bottles! !! I cant wait to get out and start working on it. It will be interwsting to see how the trail develops. Slow and choppy with big moves. Fast tight and scary? Its yet to be seen . Im looking forward to meeting alot of new riders out there, during construction and after.
    I think it will be a little of both, and too am excited to "break ground." Would be nice to hear any plans with regard to the extension as well.

  14. #39
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    TIME HAS COME! Looks like the build will start in just a couple of weeks. Kerry is looking at starting on Sun the 23rd. This will involve a short reroute on the north end and putting up signage to make Three Bottles official. We are going to need all the help we can get for the build. So all you guys that said you wanted to help out. Time to put your shovel where your mouth is. Kerry would like to put together an email list for those that are interested. You can PM me or Kerry with your email add. Further dates will be posted here and sent to your email . Looking forward to meeting you out at Three Bottles. Lets go build some cool fearures so we can HIT THAT $H!T
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbike52 View Post
    TIME HAS COME! Looks like the build will start in just a couple of weeks. Kerry is looking at starting on Sun the 23rd. This will involve a short reroute on the north end and putting up signage to make Three Bottles official. We are going to need all the help we can get for the build. So all you guys that said you wanted to help out. Time to put your shovel where your mouth is. Kerry would like to put together an email list for those that are interested. You can PM me or Kerry with your email add. Further dates will be posted here and sent to your email . Looking forward to meeting you out at Three Bottles. Lets go build some cool fearures so we can HIT THAT $H!T
    Here are just some of the boulders and chunk that we will be building through,over and off of. Its going to be good stuff. And for the xc guys, there will be a high and low by pass to cruise on through.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-005.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-006.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-007.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-008.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-009.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-010.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-002.jpg  

    Three Bottles technical trail build-rm-3-bottles-003.jpg  

    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

  16. #41
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    I'll be there sunday for sure! Its gonna be fun building it all together. .... Im thinking of buying a wench (portable) to drag big rocks around. Anyone know where to get one or if it would be a waste..?

  17. #42
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    What are you gonna name her? I hope she's big and ugly with crooked teeth!

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skelldify View Post
    What are you gonna name her? I hope she's big and ugly with crooked teeth!
    If we all bring a wench only good things would come of it

  19. #44
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    Load Limiter by GRIPHOIST - Load Binders by Zoro Tools Industrial Supplies

    This is the benchmark for moving rock but we'll probably stick with rock bars.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by skerry00 View Post
    Load Limiter by GRIPHOIST - Load Binders by Zoro Tools Industrial Supplies

    This is the benchmark for moving rock but we'll probably stick with rock bars.
    Ouch, there has to be a more dangerous, less effective, less expensive model

  21. #46
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    Aye lad, we have a fine winch aboard by the name "More Power Puller" but will defer to Captain Skerry on deployment

    The Wyeth-Scott Co. - portable winches | cable puller | come along winches

  22. #47
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    The technique is to wrap the rock with flat webbing "chokers", such as tow straps. The straps tighten up and grip the rock securely. Great care and caution are advised

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by vandolero1 View Post
    Yeah, I'm not familiar with the rocks that Fugs speaks of so might be way outa line here. I don't think it's worth the investment as long as we get a good showing.
    Once you have the ability to drag rocks you start looking at the terrain differently. It makes more things possible. Being able to move large rocks is important.

  24. #49
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    I have a HiLift jack that can be used for winching up to 5000lb, But along with the heavy, clunky jack, the winch kit has 20ft of 3/8 chain to haul around. So if somebody is willing to help with the toting, that is a possibility. I've also got an assortment of tree saver straps and other 4x4 recovery gear that would work for moving rocks.
    "You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning." ShakyPuddin

  25. #50
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    Sweet we might have to use it on a "stick in the mud"

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