Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 56
  1. #1
    High Alpine Adventure
    Reputation: DaGoat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,767

    Should we go to bat for Otero?

    Here's the question that is being proposed. Should Friends of the Outdoors Trail Partners (FooMTB) organize to try to force the issue of designating the lands of the Cibola National Forest on the West Side of Highway 337 encompassing the Trail Systems associated with Otero, Tunnel and David Canyon (Mars Court) as being open for non-motorized use only (Hiking, Mt. Biking and Equestrian)?

    The issue as I see it is the Mt. Biking Community has not been accommodated effectively in the present Travel Plan. Approximately 48% of the Sandia District has been reserved for hiking only in the form of Wilderness. The remaining 52% allocates approximately 10% for ATV/Jeep access in the form of roads. The remaining ~42% is open to all forms of Motorcycle, Hiking, Mt. Biking and Equestrian use.

    Should we propose that Cedro Peak be left as open for Motorized Use on Single Track Trails as defined in the Travel Management Plan. However, that the West side of the highway be designated solely for Non-Motorized activity and recognized as such by a change to the existing travel plan?
    Last edited by DaGoat; 07-15-2009 at 09:29 PM.
    Dug-Da-Goat

    Something changes at 12,000'
    ...so welcome to the Odyssey!

    Building your trails at FooMTB

  2. #2
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,202
    Absolutely! I will be at the next meeting, Goat. It's something that needs to happen pretty quickly. As I understand it, once the audits are done and signs made for the TMP it will be next to impossible to get any new trails adopted or built. That is slated for 2010.

  3. #3
    Bandolero Crew N.M.
    Reputation: mtbike52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,183
    Darn straight! I think everyone knows how I feel about this topic. Let me know when and where and im there. Motorized use in this area makes no sense. I would hope that a lot of us here will come out to support this effort.Lets go guys! We need everyones support for this very important issue.

  4. #4
    Bandolero
    Reputation: notaknob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,426

    Think of the children

    // Devil's Advocate:
    But if you take those trails away, where will the childrens go?
    //

    I think it's worth it. A bit of before and after evidence may do much to sway their opinion. Just get someone with a motorcycle to run up and down Tunnel (trail 05145) and the east ridge of Otero (trail 05236) a few times to show that those trails are not conducive to motorized travel.

    The impact that will result in a motorcycle going south on Otero Canyon (trial 05056) and then continuing east and connecting to the east ridge (trail 05057 & trail 05236) is something that should be brought to the attention of the FS. I'm not sure what the fall line trail is called that connects trail 05057 to 05056, but it must be a FS approved re-route to accommodate the DOE withdrawal area. I like descending that trail and given an appropriate motorcycle, would make a few attempts at going up and down it.

    // I do not own a motorcycle so don't even start.

    Those trails are the best place to start a campaign on.

    A survey of the residents in the local area should also be done.
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ScottW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,198
    I think it would be great to get the Otero area non motorized. When is the next meeting? Like others I've already seen the effects of dirt bikes on the trails. Ripping up corners, going to fast into corners and making a new wider line and I'm sure tearing up the climbs will come as soon as the dirt dries out.

  6. #6
    Int'l Man of Leisure
    Reputation: MTBNate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,233
    I'm IN for anything that can be done via email/letter writting etc since I am living out of state at moment. I can probably get a few of my Alb area friends to help the effort as well.

    Otero is no place for motos.
    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    331
    Count me in, too. Just let me know when and where and I'll be there. Otero/Tunnel is very important to those of us who live in the E. Mountains. TB.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    94
    this is worthwhile, as is continuing to work with the AF to officially get access to portions of the withdrawal area. The last Base Commander was a biking/public access advocate, and the ball was definitely dropped by not working with him. Goat, what's the status of FOO working for official access to portions of the withdrawal???
    Richard
    Don't hate me because I'm Ti

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    36
    Oh yeah, keep the people who built the trails off of them. Great idea.

  10. #10
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,202
    Before you start ranting, you really should address all of the problems associated with riding moto's on pristine ST. The ONLY reason that they are not in the same shape as Cedro is because you guys assumed that they were off limits in the first place. Otherwise, I would not even be interested in preserving them (in their current state, of course).

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    36
    You telling me not to rant about something is the pot calling the kettle black if I've ever heard it!!

    The only reason why they are there and in such good shape is because they were built by motorcyclists, for motorcyclists.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    Before you start ranting, you really should address all of the problems associated with riding moto's on pristine ST. The ONLY reason that they are not in the same shape as Cedro is because you guys assumed that they were off limits in the first place. Otherwise, I would not even be interested in preserving them (in their current state, of course).

  12. #12
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,202
    No, the only reason they are there is because Friends of the Outdoors fought for them to remain open. They should have (technically) been in the Withdrawal area. ... and they (FOO) continue to provide trail maintenance.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    36
    You need to go back a little farther then that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    No, the only reason they are there is because Friends of the Outdoors fought for them to remain open. They should have (technically) been in the Withdrawal area. ... and they (FOO) continue to provide trail maintenance.

  14. #14
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,202

    The difference between then and now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualsporter
    You need to go back a little farther then that.
    is that it would be illegal for anyone to ride Otero if it weren't for Friends of the Outdoors.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    is that it would be illegal for anyone to ride Otero if it weren't for Friends of the Outdoors.

    In that there would be no trails (as we know them) to ride if it wasn't for motorcycles.

  16. #16
    Genius
    Reputation: De La Pena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    930

    The Bottom Line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualsporter
    In that there would be no trails (as we know them) to ride if it wasn't for motorcycles.
    Dude. The bottom line is that....regardless of who built them.... motorcycles DESTROY trails for everyone else that uses them. What dont you get about that?. Now assuming motoriders built them a few decades ago (who the hell really knows), you all abandoned them and others who actually use the trails adopted them. Do you expect those who have maintained them all this time (since you all left and did nothing to help... you were to busy destroying Cedro I suppose) to bend over and take it in the a$$ now that you want to come back? You lost your claim years ago.

    Cedro WAS nice until dirt bikes tore it up. Now it will never be the same. Not in 100 years. We cannot allow this to happen to Otero too.

    There are 4 other disciplines (hikers, bikers, horse's, trail runners) that use these trails that are non-destructive. And yours (motos) is the ONLY one that completely ruins it for everyone else.

    It's 4 to 1 bro. In this instance the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the very few.

    On this subject. There is NO arguement. Lurk more.
    Last edited by De La Pena; 07-20-2009 at 12:30 PM.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    651
    Quote Originally Posted by Dualsporter
    In that there would be no trails (as we know them) to ride if it wasn't for motorcycles.
    You should change your screen name to The-West-Was-Settled-On-A-Motorcycle, and save yourself all that wasted typing.

    Not only have we learned to respect that made-by-motorcycles argument in the case of Cedro, but we've also learned to accept the fact that they're always going to be there, and that their irresponsible behavior will continuously deteriorate the trails, almost on a weekly basis.

    On the other hand, the FACT of the matter is that, in the case of Tunnel/Otero, and it's regardless of your having grown up watching your own grandparents forge the trails with their horsedrawn motorcycles, the Otero trails are in the pristine condition that they are now because motorcycles HAVE NOT been riding on them for many years. And that, they too, will soon be deteriorating on a weekly basis because of motorcycle traffic.

    Furthermore, to whatever extent motorcycles may have been used (very possibly not at all) in the development of the most recent handful of superb trails in Otero, they most certainly were not crafted for use BY motorcycles.

  18. #18
    Bandolero
    Reputation: notaknob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,426

    End of Line

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualsporter
    You need to go back a little farther then that.
    I'm Godwining this line of thinking.

    By your reasoning the only users who should use the Autobahns in Germany are Nazis.

    They built them. It was for their use. Even though things have changed, they are the rightful users for ever.

    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    651
    Quote Originally Posted by notaknob
    ... By your reasoning the only users who should use the Autobahns in Germany are Nazis.

    They built them. It was for their use. Even though things have changed, they are the rightful users for ever.
    Now you've done it, Knob! Analogy competition.

    If I clear your lot, I get to park my backhoe on your front lawn.

  20. #20
    Bandolero Crew N.M.
    Reputation: mtbike52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,183

    Talk about trail IDIOTS

    Why even argue with this guy( dulesporter) . He is an idiot that will never understand. He will think that motos have the right so screwup any trails they want. If he does also ride a mtn bike as he says he does he would know and understand where we are comming from. So I think thats crap to. I think he just gets a kick out of confronting us. Ignore the IDIOT.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by 6bobby9
    Dude. The bottom line is that....regardless of who built them.... motorcycles DESTROY trails for everyone else that uses them. What dont you get about that?. Now assuming motoriders built them a few decades ago (who the hell really knows), you all abandoned them and others who actually use the trails adopted them. Do you expect those who have maintained them all this time (since you all left and did nothing to help... you were to busy destroying Cedro I suppose) to bend over and take it in the a$$ now that you want to come back? You lost your claim years ago.

    Cedro WAS nice until dirt bikes tore it up. Now it will never be the same. Not in 100 years. We cannot allow this to happen to Otero too.

    There are 4 other disciplines (hikers, bikers, horse's, trail runners) that use these trails that are non-destructive. And yours (motos) is the ONLY one that completely ruins it for everyone else.

    It's 4 to 1 bro. In this instance the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the very few.

    On this subject. There is NO arguement. Lurk more.

    this is the most absurd thing I've ever heard....4 wheelers are the culprit, lets keep this discussion on a mature level....otherwise we diminish the intelligence level here...I ride a mountain bike and dirt bike and think we all need to get along....don't even get me started on the Jemez.

  22. #22
    Bandolero
    Reputation: notaknob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,426

    Pets.com

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbike52
    Why even argue with this guy( dulesporter) . He is an idiot that will never understand. He will think that motos have the right so screwup any trails they want. If he does also ride a mtn bike as he says he does he would know and understand where we are comming from. So I think thats crap to. I think he just gets a kick out of confronting us. Ignore the IDIOT.
    I'm going to make the call that Dullsporter is a sockpuppet of a regular MTBR-NM forum poster.
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  23. #23
    7MGTE
    Reputation: supramk388's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,704
    Quote Originally Posted by 6bobby9
    There are 4 other disciplines (hikers, bikers, horse's, trail runners) that use these trails that are non-destructive.
    Yeah horses do not do damage I love riding up a trail after a good rain and lots of horses have just messed it all up. They may not do as much damage as motos but they do plenty of damage.

  24. #24
    Genius
    Reputation: De La Pena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    930
    Quote Originally Posted by supramk388
    Yeah horses do not do damage I love riding up a trail after a good rain and lots of horses have just messed it all up. They may not do as much damage as motos but they do plenty of damage.
    After a rain NOBODY should be on the trails. After a rain EVERYONE does damage.

    Let me repeat myself.

    After a rain NOBODY should be on the trails. After a rain EVERYONE does damage.

  25. #25
    Bandolero Crew N.M.
    Reputation: mtbike52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,183
    Very good call, Nota. I think there might be more than one.

  26. #26
    7MGTE
    Reputation: supramk388's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,704
    Quote Originally Posted by 6bobby9
    After a rain NOBODY should be on the trails. After a rain EVERYONE does damage.

    Let me repeat myself.

    After a rain NOBODY should be on the trails. After a rain EVERYONE does damage.
    I guess you did not understand so I will explain about the horses.

    So after it has rained a bit someone on a horse will think lets go for a ride on the local bike trail. Stomps all over the place in a sloppy mess making pot holes all over the damn place. Then when trail has dried (key word her trail DRY, let me repeat DRY!) over the next day or so I go for a ride and think WTF!

    So I agree with you, no one should be doing it but you know it happens.

  27. #27
    Bandolero
    Reputation: notaknob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,426

    You're number one!

    Quote Originally Posted by supramk388
    I guess you did not understand so I will explain about the horses.

    So after it has rained a bit someone on a horse will think lets go for a ride on the local bike trail. Stomps all over the place in a sloppy mess making pot holes all over the damn place. Then when trail has dried (key word her trail DRY, let me repeat DRY!) over the next day or so I go for a ride and think WTF!

    So I agree with you, no one should be doing it but you know it happens.
    This question was resolved in March.

    Final word:



    //love that pic
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  28. #28
    7MGTE
    Reputation: supramk388's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,704

    Right back at you!

    Quote Originally Posted by notaknob
    This question was resolved in March.

    Final word:

    //love that pic
    This pic is better, now this is final word!

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8
    I'll be out there on my Husky today if any of you pedal pushers wanna join me!

    I can't wait until they open 4 Hills to motorcycles!!

  30. #30
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,202
    As long as you can keep up on the downs there motoboy!

  31. #31
    Genius
    Reputation: De La Pena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    930
    Quote Originally Posted by DirtChigger
    I'll be out there on my Husky today if any of you pedal pushers wanna join me!

    I can't wait until they open 4 Hills to motorcycles!!
    You're gonna ride a Husky??!!? Being that bestiality is illegal I wouldn't be advertising that unless you have Ron Bell as your lawyer.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    As long as you can keep up on the downs there motoboy!

  33. #33
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,202
    You won't last very long...

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    You won't last very long...
    you look cute in your clamdiggers eating my roost.

  35. #35
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,202
    Your going to look even cuter dislodging you and your motosuckle from the trees

  36. #36
    Genius
    Reputation: De La Pena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    930
    Quote Originally Posted by supramk388
    I guess you did not understand so I will explain about the horses.

    So after it has rained a bit someone on a horse will think lets go for a ride on the local bike trail. Stomps all over the place in a sloppy mess making pot holes all over the damn place. Then when trail has dried (key word her trail DRY, let me repeat DRY!) over the next day or so I go for a ride and think WTF!

    So I agree with you, no one should be doing it but you know it happens.
    Understood. But Horses in the mud? Ehhh... Yeah. I suppose your right idk. But truth be told I think we've all seen far more hikers and bikers out in the mud than horses. Maybe I've just missed it cuz when it rained (like last night) I don't bother to go up there. The only problem I have with horses is the poop.

    Man, that was one heck of storm yesterday. The lightening was spectacular.

  37. #37
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,202
    Boy, we/I sure made a mess of this thread. I guess DaGoat is still too tired from the weekend. My experience is that the damage is equal. The horses tend to get in there in the spring and fall and muck things up, while the bikers more so during the monsoons. The trail heals quickly, though. The motos tend to require a wider tread and can really blow out sections of a good technical climb, especially when they are roostering at every opportunity...(see posts by DirtChigger)

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8
    tbh, riding out there isn't that great on a motorcycle....trails too narrow and the penalty for failure sucks...I'd hate to have to winch my bike up the side of one of those ravines...maybe I can bring my tractor out there and widen the trail a bit...I wonder if I could drag a harrow or disc??

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    Your going to look even cuter dislodging you and your motosuckle from the trees

    oh, my Husqvarna's got marzocchi's!!!

  40. #40
    Bandolero
    Reputation: notaknob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,426

    Damn Demoncrats

    They're just burning up that stimulus money.

    BINGAMAN & UDALL: $11.06 MILLION IN STIMULUS FUNDING TO IMPROVE NEW MEXICO FOREST FACILITIES AND TRAILS

    $500k for Cedro Trailhead
    $260,000 for the Cibola National Forest Trails
    $100,000 for the Continental Divide National Scenic Trail
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  41. #41
    Bandolero
    Reputation: notaknob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,426

    Jimmy Dean Chocolate Chip Pancakes & Sausage on a Stick

    Quote Originally Posted by DirtChigger
    tbh, riding out there isn't that great on a motorcycle....trails too narrow and the penalty for failure sucks...I'd hate to have to winch my bike up the side of one of those ravines...maybe I can bring my tractor out there and widen the trail a bit...I wonder if I could drag a harrow or disc??
    You sound fat.

    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  42. #42
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,202
    oh...

  43. #43
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    8,202
    sweet...we have something to talk about the next meeting.

    This DirtChigger fella sounds like he's akin to mtb???

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    236

    MANO vs moto

    Its great to get up early here in Wis. and read your stuff, especially Nota and 123 and always with the good slam humor. Since starting to ride in '86 I have read many impact studies to understand the complications of trail building and maintenance. The best one or at least standout was done in W. Australia and it basically concludes, as most do(unless biased), that a true singletrack is best done thru the use of an off road bicycle and then in descending order...solo trail hikers, motorcycles(trials-4stroke enduros), and small groups of hikers w/o pets! Worst for the systems? absolutely worse were free ranging bovine, groups of horses, and hikers w/ dogs. Ya hikers with dogs seem to allow themselves to be commanded where to go by dog telepathy and roaming and by doing so completely meandering from the singletrack line and creating a larger and larger path area as more use it. Remember Winsor tr. when it was almost all single track and one may see an occasional motorcyclist helping to keep it clear? Since putting up signs asking hikers to leash their 4-legged trail thrashers and pickup their ****, its gotten worse and most ST has been lost. You can not ignore this example! Oh ya and ATVs...studies have a hard time classifying them. They do some of the most horrific damage but it is a polluting man-machine with a human on it with the brain capacity less than a bovine. How do you classify that? It's own category!!! We are fortunate in N. Wisconsin to have the snowshoers help us out with our ST. That is all. Remember.....have FUN!!! Stefan

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    36
    Wow, such intelligent and mature conversation by you all. You should be proud that you've resorted to name calling and IDLE threats.

    Congratulations!!

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    36
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O'Punc
    The best one or at least standout was done in W. Australia and it basically concludes, as most do(unless biased), that a true singletrack is best done thru the use of an off road bicycle and then in descending order...

    That would probably be true if MTB'ers would stay on the trail!! All you have to do is look on this forum or even go to the Cedro area to know that isn't even close to true.

  47. #47
    saddlemeat
    Reputation: bsieb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,104

    Yeah right

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve O'Punc
    Its great to get up early here in Wis. and read your stuff, especially Nota and 123 and always with the good slam humor. Since starting to ride in '86 I have read many impact studies to understand the complications of trail building and maintenance. The best one or at least standout was done in W. Australia and it basically concludes, as most do(unless biased), that a true singletrack is best done thru the use of an off road bicycle and then in descending order...solo trail hikers, motorcycles(trials-4stroke enduros), and small groups of hikers w/o pets! Worst for the systems? absolutely worse were free ranging bovine, groups of horses, and hikers w/ dogs. Ya hikers with dogs seem to allow themselves to be commanded where to go by dog telepathy and roaming and by doing so completely meandering from the singletrack line and creating a larger and larger path area as more use it. Remember Winsor tr. when it was almost all single track and one may see an occasional motorcyclist helping to keep it clear? Since putting up signs asking hikers to leash their 4-legged trail thrashers and pickup their ****, its gotten worse and most ST has been lost. You can not ignore this example! Oh ya and ATVs...studies have a hard time classifying them. They do some of the most horrific damage but it is a polluting man-machine with a human on it with the brain capacity less than a bovine. How do you classify that? It's own category!!! We are fortunate in N. Wisconsin to have the snowshoers help us out with our ST. That is all. Remember.....have FUN!!! Stefan
    I've never observed hikers and dogs causing damage. Dogs may in some instances shortcut switchbacks but their owners follow the gentler trail grade.

    Motos and bikes are not compatible uses, it just creates a moto trail that bikes are allowed on. Only mountain bikes leave a mountian bike trail, and too many hikers tend to make them too wide. Get real dude!
    I ride with the best people.




  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    236

    trail users

    I did my share of riding up in Colorado on all the trails in the Salida area where we would encounter motorcyclists scooting thru Rainbow and Monarch and Molas over outta Durango. Don't like the smell of engine fumes and the noise breaking that certain riding silence, but other then that never really bothered me. Most motos seem nice enough and attentive to mtb's, even helped push up a couple of bikes that went wickedly off trail and owners were very happy to see us help. They seem to be some of our best available advocates,so maybe we should all just try to get along and enjoy the outdoors together? Face it the west and rockies are changing and the wildness is slowly eroding. Now ATVs thats a whole nother.......mess.

  49. #49
    Genius
    Reputation: De La Pena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    930
    Quote Originally Posted by Dualsporter
    Wow, such intelligent and mature conversation by you all. You should be proud that you've resorted to name calling and IDLE threats.

    Congratulations!!

    Just following your lead. You've inspired us

  50. #50
    High Alpine Adventure
    Reputation: DaGoat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,767

    Yes, we can all get along!

    Ok... Now that everyone has had time to vent, let me just make a couple comments.

    I attended a "Choose Outdoors" roundtable the other week and we touched on some of these issues. Bottom-line is no one is saying that motorcycles and ATV's (yes ATV's) shouldn't have recreational opportunities in the National Forest. The issue is the National Forest has to "accomodate" everyone. They accomodate Hikers just fine with 48% of the Cibola Sandia Distrtict being Wilderness. I'm not against wilderness. We need wilderness. The issue is the remaining 52% has been basically lumped together to be motorized. Albeit, predominately non-ATV, but motorized none the less.

    What we will be saying as FooMTB is that Non-Motorized users (Mt. Bikers, Hikers and Equestrians) need to be accomodated as well. We need areas that are designated Non-Motorized. We believe that the split down South 14 with Tunnel, Otero and David Canyoin being designated as such is fair an equitable.

    Will we succeed in convincing the Forest Service of this? Maybe or maybe not. But with out grass roots support there isn't a ghost chance. So we need your activisim. What I want is for 2-3 people to stand up and volunteer to ACTIVELY take charge of this effort. We need a couple leaders right now.

    As the Army says, if you have what it takes (diplomatic personality, rational thought process, plays nice with others, can write and hold a cognitive conversation) than please show up at the FooMTB August meeting and be prepared to start the process.

    Remember, it takes a community to support our trails!
    Last edited by DaGoat; 07-28-2009 at 07:01 AM.
    Dug-Da-Goat

    Something changes at 12,000'
    ...so welcome to the Odyssey!

    Building your trails at FooMTB

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •