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  1. #1
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    SBT overhyped or singletrack nirvana?

    Rode sbt for the first time yesterday. I never pass judgment on a trail till I've been over it a few times. It's almost always described as NM's "best singletrack". What's your view?




    (and a glamor shot of my new steed)

  2. #2
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    Its a good trail

    But I do believe it is a little overhyped, in my opinion.

  3. #3
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    Nowhere even close to NM's best singletrack. Good trail, anyway. I love SBT. I love many other trails in NM way more than SBT. SBT is overhyped, for sure. But it is sweet.

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    Overhyped NM trails

    Ya South Boundary is a really nice ride especially the last two miles down and tech, but as del Norte knows much of the riding still has DT(double track) and the occasional ripped up ATV crap which is happening more and more in that state. Want ST check out McGaffey over in Wingate(Gallup) where the ST seems endless. Chama and Los Alamos too.
    Hey TJ come on out to Wisconsin, but do miss ridin' with ya and the rest of the NM gangs! Oh ya in SF there is always the Lamy Tr...Lame?....thats right its railroad track not singletrack.

  5. #5
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    Yah! Chama is great, too! Just got back from a clearing session up there. If your willing to do a bit of Hike a Bike there is plenty of ST to be had there and the vistas????....well,
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    Last edited by Mtn. Biker123; 07-20-2009 at 09:56 AM.

  6. #6
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    Another.

    I should have a full report sometime this week.
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    I have no problem with this thread but please try to remember that many many people count on bikers coming to ride the SBT for at least part of their incomes (Taos is a very small town). I for one love the south boundary and am very sorry that the local people here don't understand what an asset it is to our community. I would love to see more single track but what is there is extensive considering the local folks hatred of anything not associated with loud motors and scorched earth.
    An honest assessment of the trail is a good thing, words like overhyped don't do any good and don't help anyone understand why you do or don't care for the trail. Be constructive. If all you have ever done is a shuttle you are missing out entirely and I personally think you are underqualified to make an judgement. Have you ridden the rest of what is up there? North Boundary? Capulin? Jarocita? All part of the same system that deserve to be considered along with the SBT. Literally hundreds of miles of single track.
    Point being, if you have something to say, say it, just be aware that your comments are read by a huge audience looking here for trail advice, and those comments have a big ripple effect.
    Just my $.02.

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    I think we all understand that there is much more to be had in the way of ST. SBT only scratches the surface of what the Sangre de Cristos have to offer. I think any publicity is good publicity and maybe it will open peoples eyes to what the rest of Toas/Red River can offer. Maybe even spur some people to take an interest such as what is going on in Chama/Cumbres Pass area.

  9. #9
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    ok

    I guess I just wanted to know how every one felt about SBT being called NM's best trail.

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    Bryan, I do hope that people start to look at other things both here and down south. There is so much to ride and everyone is so stuck in the SB mode. Most of the single track up here, if I don't ride it, it goes away. Sad really. I think the SB is what it is and it is really good. Is it NM's best trail? I don't really know, I am not even sure if it is Taos's best trail. I just don't think we need to play "My trail is better than your trail." They are all different and they all have their points. Funny thing about Taos is without that trail, we are toast in the summer, way different than most places.

    I can't wait to ride Cumbres as well as the rest of what is shaping up to be the CDT. Anyone have any GPS data for what you did this weekend?

    I guess you are getting your answer, some of us (me) are passionate about it and some could take it or leave it.

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    No GPS from what we did, bit I can give you pretty good directions.

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    Greg

    I'll be up at the ski area all this coming week end. Any rides you could recommend in the valley? Don't forget Wheeler Peak, Taos Pueblo, the high road, and a thousand other reasons to check out Taos in the summer.

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    Yeah try Bull of the wood's to Gold Hill to Long Canyon. Up to the Bull of the Woods it is an old service road then single track the rest of the way. From there you can access Middle Fork to Lost Lake or from Gold Hill down into Goose Creek. Lost Lake is one of my favorite rides in the world.

    Northside is worth checking out if they can get it open and you don't mind paying (I do). Lots of snow this year.

    We do have things to come see, people just don't seem to come as much as they used to. I would say we get more hikers than ever but everything else is down. We would be greatly helped if they were to ever open up the wilderness to us bikers. We have so much wilderness that with the pueblo we are very limited. Wont hold my breath for that one though. I have worked hard to get bikers to come here even though it does not affect my business at all, I like to think that it has helped the town some. Taos has some big problems though and nothing we do or say about trails are going to help that. An hour and a half across town in a car is something we have to address.

    If you would like a guide this weekend let me know, I believe we are around. I live in Arroyo Seco just down the road from TSV, there is some great stuff down here as well.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123
    No GPS from what we did, bit I can give you pretty good directions.
    Cool. I will take those directions and ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greg de taos
    Cool. I will take those directions and ride.


    I do plan on being up there for GITA, so I hope to taste a little more Taos this fall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn. Biker123


    I do plan on being up there for GITA, so I hope to taste a little more Taos this fall.
    Was thinking about taking that Monday off and riding something different if you or anyone else is into it. (I promise no 8000' of climbing rides)

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    Hmmmmm........I'll be in touch.

  18. #18
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    I think Taos should use the SBT as the starting point (since it has a name ppl recognize) for getting peeps on all that beautiful single track you folks have up there. Perhaps out of towners will come for the the SBT but after they ride once or twice, they will start looking for new stuff. This is when you folks in Taos should guide them to the good stuff. Once they discover the SBT is merely part of a much larger trail system, they will be back!
    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBNate
    I think Taos should use the SBT as the starting point (since it has a name ppl recognize) for getting peeps on all that beautiful single track you folks have up there. Perhaps out of towners will come for the the SBT but after they ride once or twice, they will start looking for new stuff. This is when you folks in Taos should guide them to the good stuff. Once they discover the SBT is merely part of a much larger trail system, they will be back!

    It would really help if the signs would stop getting into gunfights. Do the signs in Albuquerque have that problem? Does anyone patrol the trails down there? It seems mostly impossible to keep the ATV's off of the singletrack without some kind of periodic patrol.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg de taos
    It would really help if the signs would stop getting into gunfights. Do the signs in Albuquerque have that problem? Does anyone patrol the trails down there? It seems mostly impossible to keep the ATV's off of the singletrack without some kind of periodic patrol.

    i've not noticed blasted signs at White Mesa or the Foothills.. but those are fairly well patrolled areas.
    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


  21. #21
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    Greg, it occurs to me that one way to discourage the ATVs is to not cut out the winter deadfal to ATV (and IMBA-spec) width. Leave a <=2 foot opening, and if the horseback riders want it larger, let them bring in a saw and tend to it themselves. Way too many trail clearing efforts cut a 4-foot swath through downed timber (witness Bryan's recent photos), which is all but an open invitation to ATVs. My $.02; thanks for your passion!
    - Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by greg de taos
    It seems mostly impossible to keep the ATV's off of the singletrack without some kind of periodic patrol.
    We rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character.

  22. #22
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    Heap of bad publicity

    Funny that this should come up on the General Discussion forums today, albeit the guy seems like an a-hole I hear this sort of thing a lot.

    If anyone needs a shuttle ( or a suggestion on how to ride it without using a tank of gas) up the south boundary, let me know, I will help it is not a big deal, I don't know why we can't get this together!!




    No good New Mexico is full of PSYCHOS and MORONs
    What’s wrong with New Mexico? I hadn’t been there since I was 6. Maybe it was just bad luck, but three days of encountering nothing but psychotics, idiots, and annoying people was rather shocking for my girlfriend and I. I can’t say I’ve ever had an experience like this before.

    Everyone drives SLOW:
    Also, what is the deal with New Mexico drivers? Most states complain about out of state drivers gawking and driving slowly and erratically. Coloradans love to complain about CA and TX plates. Utards love to complain aboutt CO plates. Montana yells about everyone. In New Mexico, it is the NM plates that are the problem. It seems to be part of their culture to ALWAYS drive 10-15mph below the posted limit… and not just a few of them… MOST of them do this. 30 in a 45 seemed the norm. These people were the least of our problems.

    THESE EXPERIENCES GET PROGRESSIVELY WORSE!

    Bike Shop Brilliance:

    Me: “Good Morning. Do you run bike shuttles for South Boundary or know which shops do that?”
    Bike Shop: “Oh… uh… did you try calling the chamber of commerce?”
    Me: “Yea… Thanks…”

    There were a lot of instances with blank stares from shops to restaurants… people who seemed to have a lot of trouble understanding day to day activities. Maybe there was something in the water. I’m just accustomed to people having a certain level of knowing what they are doing.

    Nobody rides DH at Angelfire:

    No trail descriptions. No other bikers.

    Me: Hi! We only have one DH bike. I only see blues and blacks. Do people run these on 4” XC bikes?
    Employee 1: I dunno. Maybe.
    Me: OK, well if I wanted to find a run with berms and rock gardens, which would I run?
    Employee 1: I dunno. Ask at the lift.
    Employee 2: I’m not sure. Ask the guy at the top of the lift.
    Employee 3: I don’t ride here. Ask the guys at the restaurant.
    Employee 4: No clue. Ask him.
    Employee 5: I don’t ride here, but a tourist told me that Combi was an easy run.
    Me: Screw it! I’m going!

    I ran World Cup, Boogie, and Sierra. Angelfire: Fun, long, completely empty, and staffed by know-nothings. It’s not as good as Keystone or Sol Vista.

    Psycho Biker:

    One of the two other DH bikers I saw the whole time I was at Angelfire came to his truck, threw his bike, and went into a five minute tirade:
    Example: “WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME? WHY ARE YOU ****ING WITH ME? YOU USED TO BE SO NICE! HOW CAN YOU TREAT ME LIKE ****? I HATE YOU SO MUCH!”
    It apparently sounded like he was breaking up with his girlfriend, except that he was talking to his bike. Then I arrived…

    Psycho Biker: “****ing ********! Two flat tires! And my friends are nowhere! NOWHERE! What the ****? I need CO2 cartridges. Do you have any?”
    Me: “No, sorry. I’d tell you to ask at the desk, but they might now know what you are talking about. I have a pump you can use.”
    Psycho Biker: “Goddamnit! This is some ****!”

    It went on like that so we left.

    Bike Shop Morons: (do not do business with Gearing Up Bicycle Shop )

    Before going to Angelfire, I stepped into this shop to find out about shuttles. They were having massive ADD moments. They couldn’t pay attention to any customers for more than 30 seconds or in any order, and there were only four customers with two employees! I was in there for 20 minutes to get a simple question answered.

    Employee: “We are the only legitimate shuttle operation in town.”
    Me: “Sweet. When does your next shuttle leave?”
    Employee: “We only have one and it left at 7AM and we don’t always run it.”
    Me: “How about tomorrow?”
    Employee: “Uh…. I don’t know. I’ll check.”

    He tries to help two other customers at the same time then goes to the back room, then LEAVES THE SHOP. I wait for 5 or 10 minutes to ask the other employee, then the first one returns.

    Employee: “There’s room. Just call us back later to make sure we are doing it.”
    Me: “I will. Say, I was told that if you shuttle to the middle it’s all downhill. One of our XC bikes is out of service. Would a DH bike work OK or is there climbing?”
    Employee: “That’ll work great. It’s all downhill from Garcia Park.”

    I call back twice and leave messages saying we want to go still. I call at 4PM:

    Owner: “Sorry, the shuttle is full. A group of six took it.”
    Me: “I was in there earlier asking for it, was told there was room if it ran. I did what your guys said to do and left you messages. You booted everyone and put a later group in for the same price? You couldn’t even call me back to tell me? I’ll be sure to let everyone know how you do business!”
    Owner: “Well, we didn’t check our messages. Would you all have even paid?”
    Me: “You didn’t have your **** together enough to answer the phone or check your messages in the last 7 hours and you are asking if I would have paid?”

    Gearing Up Bicycle Shop sucks. Avoid them at all costs.

    Other Weirdness:

    In the Taos Plaza: creepy homeless looking dudes walking around staring at us… like full neck swivels as they walked. Creepy…

    Hot Springs Hike: both groups we encountered hiking worked at staying clear of us.

    Psycho Dog Abuser:

    While searching for the South Boundary Trail, I waved down a guy driving his nice new blue SUV. I asked him if he had seen any signs. Instead of answering me, he grabbed the dog by its ear and yanked it forward in-between the front seats, then slammed it’s head down on the center console, and started violently yanking and shoving on its face screaming, “I’M SICK OF YOUR ****!” Then he turned to me and said, “I’m out of here,” and drove off. WTF?

    South Boundary Trail – Gearing Up Bicycle Shop Morons Strike Again:

    NOT a DH trail. Not dowhnhill. Uphill and mostly flat, with some downhill at the very end. That was a lot of pedaling on a DH Sled. We would have gotten the second XC bike working if the moron at Gearing Up hadn’t said it was good to go DH. Ugh, what a workout. 4” is all you need on that trail. Very cool trail though!

    Psycho Gang Banger Gonna Bust a Cap in My Ass

    Driving down from the trailhead is 7 miles of well maintained dirt road that you can do 30mph on. We quickly got behind a pickup driving in the middle of the road doing about 15mph and 5-10mph on the corners. Usually people like this pull over and let you pass. Well this guy, after noticing us, tried to speed up on the short straight aways, punching the accelerator like he was trying to get away, then slamming on the brakes on the corners and staring back at us as he went around them. I hadn’t even been tailgating him. Then he started making hand gestures. Perhaps they were gang signs, but I was pretty sure one was the universal “I’m going to shoot you” gesture. Then he started dangling a red hankie out the window. We followed him at distance at 10mph for 6 miles as there was no other way out. When he got to the intersection he stopped and jumped out of his truck. I roared by him, blasting him with dust.

    One good experience… with people NOT from NM:

    We ended up meeting with the people who were going to shuttle with Gearing Up Bicycle Shop, but then they apparently backed out. They had no idea we’d been booted. They apologized, but I reminded them it wasn’t their fault to begin with. They were lost looking for the trail. We found it together. They said they’d be willing to give us a ride back afterwards since it was on their way. They were very cool, all out of state seasonal workers at the Boy Scouts camp. We tossed them $30 and some beer.

    One good New Mexico experience:

    The positive experience was the food. NM food rocks. Green chile on everything! Yum!
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  23. #23
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    Long time lurker here, first time poster.

    Quote Originally Posted by greg de taos
    Funny that this should come up on the General Discussion forums today, albeit the guy seems like an a-hole I hear this sort of thing a lot.
    You do hear stuff like that a lot. If you've been here any time at all, you've been through most everything he managed to pack into a weekend. The guy had a point.
    Last edited by bad knots; 07-21-2009 at 04:26 PM.

  24. #24
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    I call BS on that poster.. because I am from out of state and I have not ever suffered from any of the stuff he posted about. But then again, I do my homework.

    Before I visit NM I post up in the NM forum asking about trail conditions/weather/interesting rides etc. There is always more offers from NM locals wanting to ride than I have time for but they are full of great info and suggestions.

    I have asked about shops and I know where to go and where to avoid. Although, I must say the guys at Taos Cyclery were good to me when I dropped by asking questions etc. Even directed me to the small resurant behind the shop for a beer and burger... mmm!

    I think the original poster suffered from total FAIL when he didnt even bother to research the SBT because if he'd taken two seconds to do so, it would have been obvious it was NOT a DH trail.. FAIL FAIL FAIL.

    His stupid attitude probably made up for the rest.. chalk it up to karma. No state needs that kind of person on the trail..
    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


  25. #25
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    A lot of out of staters are used to being led by the hand to the trails with maps signage etc..

    NM is kinda a new player on the scene and as such there isnt a lot of that stuff in place, yet. It is being discovered and in the next 10 years a lot of it will be like everywhere else.. for good or bad.
    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


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