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  1. #1
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    Rock Garden North of Pino Trailhead

    So, I rode the North Foothills this evening for the first time in a few weeks and was pissed to see that someone has filled in the rock garden just north of the Pino Trailhead with kitty litter. I have only lived here for a little over a year and I loved the challenge that rock garden provided me until I finally figured out how to tackle it. So sad to see that instead of being a man (or woman) that someone just decided to smooth out the trail instead of get better.

    I am contemplating going back and digging it back out again. Man this kind of think drives me nuts.

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    I was out there yesterday morn. Not sure what the trail number is, the rocky ridge that comes down along the wilderness boundary and meets the main north, south trail where you turn towards the tram has a bunch of spots where rocks were taken out of the trail. Looks fairly recent to me. What use to be a pretty chunky, fun down is starting to be smoothed out a little at a time. Never enough chunk! If you don't like rocks, ride a different trail.
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    And they wonder why rouge trails keep popping up......

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    Quote Originally Posted by jkldouglas View Post
    So, I rode the North Foothills this evening for the first time in a few weeks and was pissed to see that someone has filled in the rock garden just north of the Pino Trailhead with kitty litter. I have only lived here for a little over a year and I loved the challenge that rock garden provided me until I finally figured out how to tackle it. So sad to see that instead of being a man (or woman) that someone just decided to smooth out the trail instead of get better.

    I am contemplating going back and digging it back out again. Man this kind of think drives me nuts.
    Glad someone else noticed this. It does look like someone has shoveled a significant amount of sand or something into it. Strange though as it doesn't make it that much easier compared to the traction you lose with all the sand between the rocks.

    I couldn't imagine a jogger or hiker doing this so it must be one of "us", and if so they're pretty lame.
    Last edited by ATXZJ; 06-13-2013 at 11:48 AM.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkldouglas View Post
    So, I rode the North Foothills this evening for the first time in a few weeks and was pissed to see that someone has filled in the rock garden just north of the Pino Trailhead with kitty litter. I have only lived here for a little over a year and I loved the challenge that rock garden provided me until I finally figured out how to tackle it. So sad to see that instead of being a man (or woman) that someone just decided to smooth out the trail instead of get better.

    I am contemplating going back and digging it back out again. Man this kind of think drives me nuts.
    I am a long time lurker here, but have never posted before.
    I know where you are talking about, though. I was out a couple of weekends ago (Saturday 6/1) and ran into the culprits working there. It was the Open Space folks along with several people from "FOOMTB" (the one guy made a big deal of telling me about them while I tried to get past them). There were also 2-3 groups of people working on the trail mentioned by "mtbike52" removing rocks and such from that part of the trail.

  6. #6
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    Sucks......... guess we found the rock barrons.....

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by WyFlyGuy View Post
    I am a long time lurker here, but have never posted before.
    I know where you are talking about, though. I was out a couple of weekends ago (Saturday 6/1) and ran into the culprits working there. It was the Open Space folks along with several people from "FOOMTB" (the one guy made a big deal of telling me about them while I tried to get past them). There were also 2-3 groups of people working on the trail mentioned by "mtbike52" removing rocks and such from that part of the trail.
    disappointing but not surprising.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by WyFlyGuy View Post
    It was the Open Space folks along with several people from "FOOMTB" (the one guy made a big deal of telling me about them while I tried to get past them). There were also 2-3 groups of people working on the trail mentioned by "mtbike52" removing rocks and such from that part of the trail.
    Why the F are Open Space and Foo out dumbing down the trails? Go figure that its a mountain bike group doing this CRAP. Its not like there's not enough smooth trails out there. That really bothers me even more that it's the Open Space and Foo doing this and not just some idiot.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    Sucks......... guess we found the rock barrons.....
    you say that so suave
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    And i was thinking to my self
    This could be heaven or this could be hell...

  10. #10
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    Open space hates tech and the city is scared of law suits. If i had to guess id say open space is making foo do it or close that section . I love FOO my beef is with open space. Time for me to get political the only way i know how... call 770Am and complain!

  11. #11
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    Can’t speak for the section just north of Pino, but I’ve been responsible for maintaining trail #230 (BOMB trail) within Elena for 10 years now and I can assure you that our group has never removed rocks or sanitized that trail. In fact, we have hauled in and placed close to 2 tons of rock on that trail. The majority are dug in and buried into the tread to help with erosion, add to the flow, and create some challenges.
    Anyone is welcome to help us work on the trail the first Saturday of June and the first Saturday of November every year.
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    does bomb stand for babes on mountain bikes... or believers on mountain bikes??

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    It's the latter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    bomb stands for believers on mountain bikes
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    Saw the same crime scene at Pino trail a few days ago. One presumes that is a result of 'Trail Maintenance Day' two Saturday's ago. Now I'm really pissed at myself for not going so I could have pitched a giga-b1tch at the whole idea. Unbelievable anyone would think that was OK. Also saw the dirt fill on 320. WTF? Wheelchair access? So now we have vandals on both sides of the law.
    Last edited by tyrebyter; 06-13-2013 at 02:31 PM. Reason: idiotic censoring

  15. #15
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    Why not just leave it alone?
    Mother nature does it's own maintenance, no matter how hard we try.
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    Knowing that this was done in the name of "trail maintenance" actually pisses me off more than had it been some rogue pansy mountain biker. I don't understand why they felt the need to do that. Like it was said before, the traction is so bad now that it isn't like more people will be able to ride it.

  17. #17
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    Re: Rock Garden North of Pino Trailhead

    Hey guys. I'll do my best to represent Foo on this.

    To my knowledge, the majority of us were helping Kerry on Trails Day up at Oak Flats. I do know a few of our crew was helping Jim and AOS.

    I personally have not rode the foothills since then so I have not seen the issue. I will bring this up to the club and our president Claudia and try to figure out whats up. Ill also make an effort monday to get out there and take a look and some pics.

    Any issues, comments, or questions don't hesitate to get with us on our website or Facebook.

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighSpeedChase View Post
    Hey guys. I'll do my best to represent Foo on this.

    To my knowledge, the majority of us were helping Kerry on Trails Day up at Oak Flats. I do know a few of our crew was helping Jim and AOS.

    I personally have not rode the foothills since then so I have not seen the issue. I will bring this up to the club and our president Claudia and try to figure out whats up. Ill also make an effort monday to get out there and take a look and some pics.

    Any issues, comments, or questions don't hesitate to get with us on our website or Facebook.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
    The following was sent to Ken this morning...

    This was done as an AOS Project during National Trails Days under the directive of AOS Rangers Josh Willis and Jim Sattler. Their intent was to establish both an "A" and "B" line through that section. The "A" Line was maintained to the left and the "B" Line through to the right.

    As for the trail tread conditions, we are under a severe drought and any Trail Building Maintenance Projects will require rain to bed down the treads. Be patient Ken and I'm sure the tread will resolve itself.
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    Also for more clarification I contacted FooMTB and this we the response I received.

    "
    This was done as an AOS Project during National Trails Days under the directive of AOS Rangers Josh Willis and Jim Sattler. Their intent was to establish both an "A" and "B" line through that section. The "A" Line was maintained to the left and the "B" Line through to the right.

    As for the trail tread conditions, we are under a severe drought and any Trail Building Maintenance Projects will require rain to bed down the treads. Be patient Ken and I'm sure the tread will resolve itself.
    "

    Sounds like this was AOS driven and we need to direct any complaints/comments toward them.

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    Looks like he beat me to it...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkldouglas View Post
    Sounds like this was AOS driven and we need to direct any complaints/comments toward them.
    Yep!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkldouglas View Post
    Looks like he beat me to it...
    Yep!
    Dug-Da-Goat

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    ...so welcome to the Odyssey!

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  23. #23
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    Thanks for chiming in doug! Trail building is thankless work, im sure you know this.

    Ive got nothing but respect for everyone at FOO.

    When we get finished with 3 bottles you can bet people will complain its too techy and they dont like it. Ohwell no one but the bandos showed up to scout it so i could care less what people that arnt willing to build a trail have to say about a trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    Thanks for chiming in doug! Trail building is thankless work, im sure you know this.

    Ive got nothing but respect for everyone at FOO.

    When we get finished with 3 bottles you can bet people will complain its too techy and they dont like it. Ohwell no one but the bandos showed up to scout it so i could care less what people that arnt willing to build a trail have to say about a trail.
    Be careful casting such a blanket statement. While there are plenty of people that don't help maintain trails, people like myself didn't know about this change because we were up helping Kerry and Foo build the new connector trail.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkldouglas View Post
    Be careful casting such a blanket statement. While there are plenty of people that don't help maintain trails, people like myself didn't know about this change because we were up helping Kerry and Foo build the new connector trail.
    My point is that no trail makes everyone happy. Even if 100% of riders could agree on what they wanted, we would still need to ballance the needs of other users.

    In the case of the rock garden it looks like AOS wanted to make the trail safer. I dont agree with it but then again im not the one getting sued.

    Maybe i dont have a point.... oh well

  26. #26
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    That's the second time the subject of liability and suit have come up in this thread. I read the paper most days but maybe I missed something. I've never seen anything associating trail maintenance with liability. Are we assuming something that was not stated? Also, the fact that it was AOS's idea doesn't let anyone off the hook. If FOO participated without protest, shame on them. And shame on me for 1) not making time to be there and 2) finding excuses not to join IMBA/FOO. .. OK, I just fixed the second part by joining online. Pretty painful for a cheap bastard like me... But it was cheaper that the last derailleur I bought.

  27. #27
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    Kerry put it out there for weeks, if not months. No one chimed in to help develop the new 3Bs. Except the lowly wretched bandos.

    I too am disappointed AOS and whoever else was involved would need to scrub the small section of trail. I think thats the only semi-challenging, legal section in all of NFH.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    I too am disappointed AOS and whoever else was involved would need to scrub the small section of trail. I think thats the only semi-challenging, legal section in all of NFH.
    Don't be too disappointed Aaron. If some of you big strong Bando's would get your act together, you might be able to help out on the rock ramp roll up onto that boulder that's sitting there. Josh and Jim have approved doing something with it. That's why the rocks are still there.

    Like I said, "A" line to the left, "B" line to the right!
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  29. #29
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    The tech left the Elena a decade ago. I believe in ten years it will be all smooth and 10 feet wide. It's already happened to 50% of the trail. It's only a matter of time.
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  30. #30
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    Not Interested. I think Im washing my hair that day.
    you guys can have the NFH. plant your flag.
    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Don't be too disappointed Aaron. If some of you big strong Bando's would get your act together, you might be able to help out on the rock ramp roll up onto that boulder that's sitting there. Josh and Jim have approved doing something with it. That's why the rocks are still there.

    Like I said, "A" line to the left, "B" line to the right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Don't be too disappointed Aaron. If some of you big strong Bando's would get your act together, you might be able to help out on the rock ramp roll up onto that boulder that's sitting there. Josh and Jim have approved doing something with it. That's why the rocks are still there.

    Like I said, "A" line to the left, "B" line to the right!
    Take a pic of where it is and it will get done or just say where it is and what you want. I dontbwash my hair.. or much else

  32. #32
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    I know of this rock. Its to the far left of the obstacle if you are approaching from pino trailhead. A few rocks have been stacked up but there is a second step that you have to make it up and ends up acting as the perfect trap for my LWB 29er.

    Id be up for helping if its taking place this week.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bobby9 View Post
    The tech left the Elena a decade ago. I believe in ten years it will be all smooth and 10 feet wide. It's already happened to 50% of the trail. It's only a matter of time.
    And that time comes all the sooner if no one gives a damn. To all those who have given up on the foothills, thank you for taking care of the over-crowding. To those still riding there, make your voice heard.

  34. #34
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    Whatever you fellas come up with, NFH will still be for night rides, snow days and closures. Its too far gone. Why am I complaining? what else is the NM forum good for during fire season...

  35. #35
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    Had to check this out...

    My wife (who aspires to one day have and use tech skills ) was disappointed to the see the pathway filled in. She walks that section regularly, but its on her list of things to be able to ride over one day. I guess yesterday was that day, as the gravel made it super easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Don't be too disappointed Aaron. If some of you big strong Bando's would get your act together, you might be able to help out on the rock ramp roll up onto that boulder that's sitting there. Josh and Jim have approved doing something with it. That's why the rocks are still there.

    Like I said, "A" line to the left, "B" line to the right!
    This is a "rock-ramp roll up" ?



    Guess you could remove the cheater rocks, at least that will make it a challenge. Or bring in a bobcat and just remove/relocate the boulder, in another step towards a tech-free foothills - which is (I'm guessing) the overall goal.

    Best option? Just leave it alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by justamember View Post
    Was up there last night with the kiddo (9y/o).

    It WAS on his bucket list, too! Freakin' trail ferries. I may have actually caught one on camera.

    Attachment 809318
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl View Post
    Whatever you fellas come up with, NFH will still be for night rides, snow days and closures. Its too far gone. Why am I complaining? what else is the NM forum good for during fire season...
    This.

    It was good while it lasted Tyrbyter. Its not that I don't care its just not repairable.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bobby9 View Post
    This.

    It was good while it lasted Tyrbyter. Its not that I don't care its just not repairable.

    Yea it is... close all existing trails and build a new system

  39. #39
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    That would definitely be easier.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

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    I veiw the NFH like the bosque... i wouldnt call the nfh ruined its just not for me... lots of people like it just the way it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post



    This is a "rock-ramp roll up" ?



    .
    Yep, that's the rock.....and wow! it looks like they added even more filler since i was last there.


    What about 230? I saw somewhere that sport systems maintains this trail.
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  42. #42
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    nope, not us.
    We like tech stuff over here at SS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlx john View Post
    nope, not us.
    We like tech stuff over here at SS.
    Im with you on that one. However as I remember there is a sign posted on 230 with SS on it.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by justamember View Post
    I like it for what it is...EASY!

    The bosque might make for a sweet night ride. When you can down by barrelas ,the bums sleeping near the river give it a special kind of creepy... parts of the trail are tight and twisty which would be lots of fun at night under the cover of trees. Plus the ground is actually made of dirt so its much faster... not everything has to be techy.... just depends on the mood and what suits you.

  45. #45
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    Bums/Burms. All the same...

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    Quote Originally Posted by justamember View Post
    LOL! I noticed a bunch of new side trails in the NFH last night. Where do they lead? Right to the gates of some of those multi-million dollar shacks that have slowly and quietly inched their way closer to the foot of the mountain...many of them signed! I think you will find it very difficult to compete with these people. You want tech? You gotta go to the ghetto (AKA South FooHills), yo!

    Come to think of it, MTB used to be a ghetto sport. I kinda liked it that way.
    Sandia Heights has been there for 40 years... though it is quiet and slow...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    The bosque might make for a sweet night ride. When you can down by barrelas ,the bums sleeping near the river give it a special kind of creepy... parts of the trail are tight and twisty which would be lots of fun at night under the cover of trees. Plus the ground is actually made of dirt so its much faster... not everything has to be techy.... just depends on the mood and what suits you.
    Good point. Anyone else riding White Mesa in the full moon Saturday? It can be pretty techy in the dark if you fall in one of the holes.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by justamember View Post
    Please elaborate. I'm not seeing the connection.

    TIA
    Use the bums as burms. Justajoke, justamember...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    When we get finished with 3 bottles you can bet people will complain its too techy and they dont like it. Ohwell no one but the bandos showed up to scout it so i could care less what people that arnt willing to build a trail have to say about a trail.
    Minor correction Fuglio: If you'll remember, the scouting date was moved to the right because of something called mud. I had plans to be there (even though I'm too chicken-hearted to ride the bando lines) but the date changed and my wife had other plans for me (which were not exactly my plans). I'm sure you have to rank your priorities the same way before you even consider one of your all-night extravaganzas...

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by bg2lk15 View Post
    Minor correction Fuglio: If you'll remember, the scouting date was moved to the right because of something called mud. I had plans to be there (even though I'm too chicken-hearted to ride the bando lines) but the date changed and my wife had other plans for me (which were not exactly my plans). I'm sure you have to rank your priorities the same way before you even consider one of your all-night extravaganzas...

    No explanation needed. Your a huge asset to any trail building project.

    Do you know where the tech roller doug was talking about building earlier in the thread?(post 28)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    Do you know where the tech roller doug was talking about building earlier in the thread?(post 28)
    No idea where it is. I assume NFH up towards the NTD work near Pino. I tore out oak for Skerry on that day. I'm in the east mountains so I usually ride SFH since it is closer.

    Bring back the mud...

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    My point is that no trail makes everyone happy. Even if 100% of riders could agree on what they wanted, we would still need to ballance the needs of other users.

    In the case of the rock garden it looks like AOS wanted to make the trail safer. I dont agree with it but then again im not the one getting sued.

    Maybe i dont have a point.... oh well
    You've got a perfect point... we (Mt. Bikers) aren't the only ones using the trails, I'm sure AOS wanted to do this for the trail runners and horsemen... yes horses are ridden in the foothills.

    As for the traction, it looks like the rain we had a few days ago settled things in nicely. I've ridden that section twice this weekend and have done both the left and right lines. The left is definitely still "techy" and the right maintains the flow (long live the flow!). I actually found the right line a little more intriguing because of the trials skills needed to maintain speed and hit the line around the rock. But I'm sure that's just me talking!

    As for your question on were the boulder roll is, it is right next to that line. We'd have to build a decent ramp up, but like I said, Jim and Josh are cool with it, just need to get some good strong young guys together to make it happen.

    Oh, and get ready for a reroute of the drop beyond this section ALL the way down to the intersection with the 230. You heard it here first. You want in on the planning, join FooMTB.org!
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    Really? Really? They had to fill in the rocks so people could...walk past it? What the f was wrong with it for the last 6 years(or more) that suddenly it was too much?

    There is a huge difference between maintaining a trail and just plain ruining it.

    People will argue that people that don't show up to work days can't complain, but that is BS. I don't sit outside my car all night with a shotgun to keep it from being vandalized, I shouldn't have to babysit people with shovels so they don't vandalize the trails.

    Seriously, for those that approved this change, just go ride the paved bosque trail and stop ruining the good stuff.

    /rant

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by warimono View Post
    What the f was wrong with it for the last 6 years(or more) that suddenly it was too much?
    And how long have you been riding the North Footies? That section is maintained by the Wombats (if you know who they are)! They rerouted that section about 4 years ago (it use to go further to the East) and I think most folks felt it was a mess from the git-go. So this effort by the AOS was to remedy that initial effort.

    As for walking over it, I think most riders did just that and obviously the hiking and trail running community probably had something to say about it.

    So again, the trails in the foothills are multi-user and yes mountain bikers do get to add input since some of us do work quite closely with them, but we don't dictate what the AOS feels needs to be done. They "manage" the trails for ALL users and will do what they think is best!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    As for the traction, it looks like the rain we had a few days ago settled things in nicely. I've ridden that section twice this weekend and have done both the left and right lines. The left is definitely still "techy" and the right maintains the flow (long live the flow!). I actually found the right line a little more intriguing because of the trials skills needed to maintain speed and hit the line around the rock. But I'm sure that's just me talking!

    As for your question on were the boulder roll is, it is right next to that line. We'd have to build a decent ramp up, but like I said, Jim and Josh are cool with it, just need to get some good strong young guys together to make it happen.
    This boulder...



    What kind of rocks/boulders do you need to build "decent" a ramp? Building a ramp up to it removes any tech quality from the feature. The boulder is all of 30" high, with a slanted face as you approach it.

    Just remove the cheater rocks that are already there (removing small/medium sized rocks doesn't seem to be an issue anywhere else in the foothills - no young "good strong guys" needed) and let it stand as is. It will be plenty of a challenge (and still doable) with no a ramp at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat View Post
    Oh, and get ready for a reroute of the drop beyond this section ALL the way down to the intersection with the 230. You heard it here first. You want in on the planning, join FooMTB.org!

    Personally I'd love to be in on the planning of the re-route, but after sitting in on the last last FOO meeting (great, hospitable & friendly folks!), it was made clear that Open Space has no interest in supporting tech type riding in the foothills. Is that not the case?
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    Hope

    Quote Originally Posted by jhazard View Post
    This boulder...



    What kind of rocks/boulders do you need to build "decent" a ramp? Building a ramp up to it removes any tech quality from the feature. The boulder is all of 30" high, with a slanted face as you approach it.

    Just remove the cheater rocks that are already there (removing small/medium sized rocks doesn't seem to be an issue anywhere else in the foothills - no young "good strong guys" needed) and let it stand as is. It will be plenty of a challenge (and still doable) with no a ramp at all.




    Personally I'd love to be in on the planning of the re-route, but after sitting in on the last last FOO meeting (great, hospitable & friendly folks!), it was made clear that Open Space has no interest in supporting tech type riding in the foothills. Is that not the case?
    Thats not the rock jer there is some other one thats been oked to make a stunt out of... i have no clue where it is and the picture of the rock im vauge on.. i think i have a life time total of 20 nfh rides



    I think AOS is opposed to dangerous tech but i still think its benificail to attend meetings donate and do trail work in the NFH. Ill never be as excited as i am for three bottles. But i do think with enough input the NFH could be a fast xc corse litterd with obsticals and tech moves

    With enough rerouttes it could be a badass xc trail.... instead of a snore inducing flow fest

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    Ah... I think I know the one you're talking about - my bad then. I can see the need for hands on the other one, haha. Thanks for the clarification.

    Input and trailwork are not bad things, agreed. but "snore inducing flow fest" <---- LOL.
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    [QUOTE=DaGoat;10486727]And how long have you been riding the North Footies?

    About 13 years, but what's the point? If some guy who's been here 10 minutes can see it bites, It still bites. Rode it again this afternoon. Guess what? It still bites. The right line is silly. The left 'techy' line is soft gravel/sand. Awesome. Here's the test: If I can clear it, it's not tech. I get that the criteria for a city park (AOS) is different than a single track through a National Forest. I really do. Just don't defend it in the name of the mountain biking community.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by justamember View Post
    If you want your heart to beat faster, ride faster (or, on a fully rigid x-bike)!

    Flo would agree.
    Now there's a man who knows what I'm talking about! I knew there was a reason I liked Bryan!
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    There really isn't any excuse. Hikers and trail runners were not complaining about that section, and i doubt it bothered horses either. Who the F would complain about having to do slightly more work for 10 or so steps?

    That is the great thing about that section. We all know the NFH isn't very technical, but there are those couple neat sections where you have to think a little more, a little differently, for a little bit, which is a great way to break up the ride.

    The idea that things have to be made easier, safer, more padded is not just limited to this spot on this trail, it is a plague and destructive thought process that is happening all the time all around us. Stop that trend and keep things interesting and challenging.

    This is an Off, Road, Trail. It shouldn't be easy the entire freaking way.

    What happened was vandalism plain and simple. Don't pretend like it was anything else.

    I am all for helping to maintain the trail and repair the damage caused.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by warimono View Post
    There really isn't any excuse. Hikers and trail runners were not complaining about that section, and i doubt it bothered horses either. Who the F would complain about having to do slightly more work for 10 or so steps?

    That is the great thing about that section. We all know the NFH isn't very technical, but there are those couple neat sections where you have to think a little more, a little differently, for a little bit, which is a great way to break up the ride.

    The idea that things have to be made easier, safer, more padded is not just limited to this spot on this trail, it is a plague and destructive thought process that is happening all the time all around us. Stop that trend and keep things interesting and challenging.

    This is an Off, Road, Trail. It shouldn't be easy the entire freaking way.

    What happened was vandalism plain and simple. Don't pretend like it was anything else.

    I am all for helping to maintain the trail and repair the damage caused.

    I agree with you.

    But....

    Just to play devils advocate, the number of people that want a 100% flowy fast trail out number us.
    It takes more then showing up on trail days to get what you want done. Often times decions regarding what will be done on the trail days will happen weeks before a tool is ever picked up.

    Theres a couple options

    1. Do nothing and stop complaining
    2. Become active in local mtb clubscand call city officalls
    3. Buy a SS 29er (flow bike) and learn to apreaciate the trail system for what it is, an ass hauling strava course
    4. Do nothinting and keep complaining


    Like i said i agree with you and think the trail would benifit greatly from a/ b line opions in 20or so places

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by justamember View Post
    I'll say it again. No one has ever ridden the north FooHills for the tech. Even before the "improvements" it was negligible at best. It's a flo trail and I think that we can agree that flo often negates technicality. It's rare to find both. Anyone who has ridden Muy Loco at Pajarito can understand what I'm saying...uber tech, but NO FLO!

    If you want your heart to beat faster, ride faster (or, on a fully rigid x-bike)!

    Flo would agree.
    In some areas of NFH, you just can't ride faster (safely), or you're likely to smash somebody on one of the many blind corners.

    Like many things, it seems Flo(w) is subjective - different things for different people.



    Right now, it's the new black as far as trails are concerned, and the main reason being (IMHO) because they are easy to navigate (not that there's anything wrong with that) and more people get out and ride them.

    Trails like PBR in Fruita are what I think of in regards to flow trails; "designed specially with jumps and berms to allow riders to flow unimpeded down the mountain without stopping, making the downhill-riding experience akin to skiing or sledding" (copied from an article, thought it was a keen description). Semantics? Maybe, and probably besides the point anyhow.

    Not suggesting that NFH should be some tech fest with drops, skinnies and jumps everywhere (save that for the SFH! ). But a few jumps and/or berms dispersed throughout a trail wouldn't be awful, or designing them in to the trail in such a way as to not to be a danger (like PBR). Doesn't have to be "tech", but why not take advantage of the terrain?

    As it stands, the entire trail system is devoid of any official features (are water bars features?), and rocks keep disappearing or getting covered. Seems someone is getting their way. In fact, about everyone is getting their way (all the way to their own back doors in some cases!) except those looking for some progression in their riding (progression other than upping the tachometer).

    Just because it's been a certain way for a number of years doesn't mean it cannot evolve. Isn't that what trails do over time?
    Last edited by jhazard; 06-24-2013 at 10:59 AM. Reason: tourettes/spelling
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  63. #63
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    Fwiw i hate the north foot hills... its saved for ss night rides and snow days... but then its lots of fun

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    Yeah, me too... still have to try it in snow though. But I hate snow too.
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    I understand why some people have no use for the NFH trails. That's fine and I respect their opinions. I also respect their skills and I aspire to achieve them someday. I disagree that most people who ride those trails like them sanitized; we don't. I ride there probably 4 times a week, sometimes seven. So do others. It's close, it's dirt, it twists, climbs, drops and is rocky in spots. Every time a rock goes missing it pisses me off. I still klutz both the rock sections climbing out of the arroyo at the top of EG about half the time. But I'm getting better and hope to continue improving until I'm dead. To throw in the towel and say it's all lost is weak BS as far as I'm concerned. Concede Elena to the horses and lame and double up on the National Forest if that seems more doable. And don't wait for FOO; it sounds like they wrote it off long ago.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by justamember View Post
    Great post, Jerry. Love the Progressive lady. She has better hair.

    A few things to consider...

    I noticed a few small jumps here and there during my last few rides. Not what I'd consider fun, but someone made the effort. Trying to make the NFH's into a flow trail that incorporates features like jumps and berms would require redesigning the whole trail. As has been pointed out there are a lot of blind corners out there. Fruita and the like were designed by MTB'rs. The FooHills were not. It would literally take an act of god to make it so. We need to put all this energy into other efforts, IMO. The SFH's is a good start because it has been somewhat "established" as the goto spot for tech. 3 Bottles if/when the time comes, is another. I haven't been out to Golden Open Space, but perhaps some opportunities exist there. Driving the N 14 a few weeks ago, I noticed that the Galisteo Basin Preserve and Cerillos Hills might have potential as well.
    For sure, I'm just bored and pickin' nits. NFH is what it is, and will continue to be so. Especially as long as people have trails from their back doors to the trails.

    Making all of the NFH into a flow system is probably not realistic, but that re-route that mentioned....

    I do agree about the focused energy - better spent elsewhere, and 3B's will demand that if/when the time comes (fingers still crossed). I'll try to save my energy/breath for that project when the rains come back!

    I've not been out to Galisteo Basin Preserve and Cerillos Hills, I'm curious....
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    " Listen, you want tech head to South FooHills, get a little more involved, and/or put the rocks back bigger and better. I did it for years, so how hard could it be?"

    Well said. I'll get off my soapbox now (and the crowd cheered!)

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    It's dark now. I'll be more productive tomorrow.

  69. #69
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    Foothills are perfect for snow riding. Too bad it doesn't really snow anymore.
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bobby9 View Post
    Foothills are perfect for snow riding. Too bad it doesn't really snow anymore.
    I love snow
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rock Garden North of Pino Trailhead-mine2.jpg  


  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by justamember View Post
    I stand by my assertion. Still plenty of tech in the North FooHills.

    Just gotta learn to change a few habits.

    Attachment 811393
    Plenty of flow too...
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by justamember View Post
    Too much Flo, bro! Enough to send me OTB!!!
    You mean FLO-TB!
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