Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 60
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    106

    Off Topic: Mexican Gray Wolves in Sandias/Manzanos?

    I always love these discussions when I read them in other forums from people in Iowa and other places who swear they saw a wolf. they always start off like, "so there I was, looking out my window" or "...driving along" and they describe someone's collie or a coyote.

    OK, so there I was, nearly home, in about the same area where I always see other wildlife. I've seen a mama bear and cubs, I've seen turkeys, deer, etc. -- a few miles east of the "top"of North 14 off Ridge Rd and eastward. There are a series of open spaces and large multi-acre properties that go from Frost Rd down south to Gutierrez Open Space, which is then a short skip under I-40 to the NF east of Tijeras. You all know what I'm talking about.

    Anyway, so there I was, about three weeks ago, and about 50 feet ahead of my car, two mottled tan and gray canines go running across the road - I hit my brakes because I was afraid I might hit one. One had a flash of orange around its neck - couldn't see the other because it was a little behind and obscured by the one with the collar. I thought, "wow, those were big coyotes." my dog is about 22" at the shoulder. He's a lab mix and weighs about 60lbs. These two animals were at least as large, with bushy tails and sharp features. As I finished my drive home (about 1/4 mile more), I thought, no way, they were too big for the coyotes around here, which are smaller than my dog...must have been someone's dogs, especially considering one may have had a collar.

    Last week, I happen to be talking to a colleague who lives in the same general area, but where residences butt against one of the open spaces. She swears she's seen two Mexican Gray wolves, one with an orange tracking collar with a box on it, hanging out in the area. She has two large dogs (>80lbs each) and says they're as big in size (if not weight) as her dogs, which are much bigger than the local coyotes. I said, maybe they're someone's huskies who have escaped someone's invisible fence, and she was skeptical because they didn't bark at her dogs like other dogs would (and like her dogs were barking at them)...they just kind of stared and then gave her property a wide berth and disappeared into the trees.

    So okay...Mexican Grays in the area? I personally think that would be awesome. It would be pretty easy for wildife to link the mountain chains and wildlife refuges along the Rio Grande to get up to the Sangres....

    Discuss.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: F.N.G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,354
    I got nothing... But interesting story. I always see them cover them on the local news where they are down south and them coming across boarder. Just the other night i was wondering if ever they'd migrate up this far.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by F.N.G View Post
    I got nothing... But interesting story. I always see them cover them on the local news where they are down south and them coming across boarder. Just the other night i was wondering if ever they'd migrate up this far.
    From what the Internet tells me (so it must be true), wolves can make long-distance trips fairly quickly. In 2004 a wolf was killed by a car on I-70 on the east side of the Continental Divide...it was from Yellowstone, and packs can occasionally expand their range to up to 1,000 square miles if they're following a migrating herd or establishing new territory, so I believe it's possible. Some recent sightings in Rocky Mountain NP have been deemed "credible".

  4. #4
    Genius
    Reputation: De La Pena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    894
    Not too cool for those of us who bikepack and spend the night in them woods....
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by 6bobby9 View Post
    Not too cool for those of us who bikepack and spend the night in them woods....
    I'd be more concerned about big kittehs and bear.

  6. #6
    Genius
    Reputation: De La Pena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    894
    Agreed. But this is just one more predator to concern myself with.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    323
    This sounds like some black ops stuff is going on at the air force base. The wolves are not supposed to be out of the Gila, so if they are captured out there I am sure they will be disavowed. Maybe they are rogue agents escaped from their pens at Sevilleta wildlife refuge.

    Seriously, I think if they are wolves they will be captured by fish and game if possible. Since the forest service up there is on this listserve, they are probably already aware of it.

    I would not be worried about camping out in wolf country. I have been doing it for years and I am no worse off for it and have never seen or heard a wolf. I think mountain lions are a bigger threat and even that is remote.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilarider View Post
    This sounds like some black ops stuff is going on at the air force base. The wolves are not supposed to be out of the Gila, so if they are captured out there I am sure they will be disavowed. Maybe they are rogue agents escaped from their pens at Sevilleta wildlife refuge.

    Seriously, I think if they are wolves they will be captured by fish and game if possible. Since the forest service up there is on this listserve, they are probably already aware of it.
    The orange thing *could* have been a laser...since sharks can't survive in the Rio Grande (or can they...hmmm....)

    Anyway, The Internet™ says All of New Mexico east of the Gila and between I-10 and I-40 is considered a "recovery area", so why wouldn't they let them be?

    I would think, however, that there's not going to be a parade or big announcement or anything because the ranchers just east in Moriarty and north of the county line are probably not going to be too excited about it.

    And two wolves does not a recovery make -- they may not be a breeding pair, in which case they're lone wolves and will probably die without pups or go back where they came from.

    If in fact they're here, which I'm not saying they are, I'm just sayin'. That's all. I don't want to call skerry out, but I'm sure if he had something to say he would have said it.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    106
    totally possible....in the late 70s when wolves were extinct in the gila I was camping way off trail by a water hole and had a similar experience. There were 4 of them. Too big for coyotes and definitely didn't act like dogs. We checked each other out for about 2 minutes then they trotted off. A memorable experience that I won't forget.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    323
    The internet told me that the wolves are still restricted in new mexico to the area of the Gila and into Arizona. The public comment period is still open on expanding the area across the width of new mexico and arizona. That's why I said I don't think the wolves are authorized up there and would be caught, if possible.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilarider View Post
    The internet told me that the wolves are still restricted in new mexico to the area of the Gila and into Arizona. The public comment period is still open on expanding the area across the width of new mexico and arizona. That's why I said I don't think the wolves are authorized up there and would be caught, if possible.
    Ah, good point. Well, if they're here I hope a) they don't get shot by a rancher or hit by a car, and b) USFWS doesn't catch them before the change is implemented....

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    5
    Decided to post a reply here because seems things need some clearing up. There are no wolves in the sandia/monzano mountains. What you saw was probably radio collared coyotes or feral dogs, i.e. German shepherds, husky's, wolf hybrids, coyote mix and other crosses,etc. You would be amazed at how close certain breeds resemble wolves especially when briefly observed. There haven't been wolves in central N.M. in 100+ years. As of August there are only 54 wolves in the recovery program, that includes N.M. and AZ. ALL of them are monitored. They are also Mexican grey wolves and they only get up to about 60-80lbs which is smaller than most of the dogs mentioned above and similar in size to coyotes. As for camping in wolf country there is only 1 recorded death in the entire united states and the odds of you seeing a wolf in the wild are very, very, VERY slim. Unless you know where to look and how. Wolves in general will hear or smell you way before you see them and they typically (99%) of the time run away from humans its their nature.
    As stated above as cool as it would be I hate to break the news but they 100% are not wolves from the recovery program and likely are coyote or feral dogs of some variation, or even just someone's lost pets.
    Although if interested there are petitions and volunteer help/symposiums to help the wolf recovery programs that you can look into.

    Source: Graduate student in Animal/predator behavior and wildlife conservation.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: F.N.G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,354
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwolf View Post
    Decided to post a reply here because seems things need some clearing up. There are no wolves in the sandia/monzano mountains. What you saw was probably radio collared coyotes or feral dogs, i.e. German shepherds, husky's, wolf hybrids, coyote mix and other crosses,etc. You would be amazed at how close certain breeds resemble wolves especially when briefly observed. There haven't been wolves in central N.M. in 100+ years. As of August there are only 54 wolves in the recovery program, that includes N.M. and AZ. ALL of them are monitored. They are also Mexican grey wolves and they only get up to about 60-80lbs which is smaller than most of the dogs mentioned above and similar in size to coyotes. As for camping in wolf country there is only 1 recorded death in the entire united states and the odds of you seeing a wolf in the wild are very, very, VERY slim. Unless you know where to look and how. Wolves in general will hear or smell you way before you see them and they typically (99%) of the time run away from humans its their nature.
    As stated above as cool as it would be I hate to break the news but they 100% are not wolves from the recovery program and likely are coyote or feral dogs of some variation.
    Although if interested there are petitions and volunteer help/symposiums to help the wolf recovery programs that you can look into.

    Source: Graduate student in Animal/predator behavior and wildlife conservation.

    Buzz kill!!! Oh well.

    How about some other postings/threads of strange things seen in our local trails. I know the other boards has this but this is specific to NM.

    Whatever happened to that Mountain Lion this one dude was seeing on the near entrance of Otero? Any more sightings?

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwolf View Post
    Decided to post a reply here because seems things need some clearing up. There are no wolves in the sandia/monzano mountains. What you saw was probably radio collared coyotes or feral dogs, i.e. German shepherds, husky's, wolf hybrids, coyote mix and other crosses,etc. You would be amazed at how close certain breeds resemble wolves especially when briefly observed. There haven't been wolves in central N.M. in 100+ years. As of August there are only 54 wolves in the recovery program, that includes N.M. and AZ. ALL of them are monitored. They are also Mexican grey wolves and they only get up to about 60-80lbs which is smaller than most of the dogs mentioned above and similar in size to coyotes. As for camping in wolf country there is only 1 recorded death in the entire united states and the odds of you seeing a wolf in the wild are very, very, VERY slim. Unless you know where to look and how. Wolves in general will hear or smell you way before you see them and they typically (99%) of the time run away from humans its their nature.
    As stated above as cool as it would be I hate to break the news but they 100% are not wolves from the recovery program and likely are coyote or feral dogs of some variation, or even just someone's lost pets.
    Although if interested there are petitions and volunteer help/symposiums to help the wolf recovery programs that you can look into.

    Source: Graduate student in Animal/predator behavior and wildlife conservation.
    Cool, thanks. Definitely NOT German shepherds...I'm very familiar with them. Same with my colleague who had a longer look at what she saw. Maybe they were Huskies. The coyotes here are small...these were clearly bigger. There was one supposed wolf hybrid pair that went feral (or were relesased) from their owners about 15 miles south in one of the land grants a couple years ago, so maybe they're still wandering around out there.

    How often do they track the packs in the Gila and Mogollon Rim? What tracking programs are going on in Mexico? I can't imagine there's a whole lot of conservation effort going on south of the border in the drug smuggling corridors, and I know they cross the border from time to time (the wolves, that is).

    But hey, I figured someone would rain on my parade...and surprised it took this long.

    (BTW...the wolf that was killed by a car on I-70 in Colorado in 2004 had a tracking collar, and traveled all the way from Southwest Montana between January and June...and they thought they had them all accounted for too. Just sayin'.)

    Name:  untitled.jpg
Views: 539
Size:  34.6 KB

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    5
    the wolves are tracked in a variety of ways and depending on the schedule are monitored typically once a week as the numbers are far lower than expected at this point and recovery is crucial. Although with new proposal of increasing protected land to speed up recovery you may hear of them further north in eastern NM and AZ after few years. That would change of course once population has increased. Before recovery efforts there was estimated only about 300 in captivity and none in the wild. As for Mexico the wolves are extinct. None are known to exist in the wild south of the border. As to what is crossing there has been increased activity of jaguars returning to the U.S. 3 have been spotted in AZ 1 was a male. They now have protected habitat in AZ and Southern NM, but of course chances of seeing one of them in the wild are less than being struck by lightning (actual fact lol). So if you see one go grab a lottery ticket asap ;-).
    Also as for the Colorado wolf the collar had actually stopped working in Wyoming (last time it was recorded) and there were efforts to find it. There are protected wolves in Colorado though so the female was guessed to have been trying to locate new home territory (rare for females) but wolves have been known to travel 500 miles (longest tracked so far) to establish new home. They only travel 12-25 sq miles a day when looking for new territory.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    5
    Jaguars were known to have previously lived as far north as borders of NM/CO and AZ/UT before being eradicated in the U.S. in late 1800's early 1900's. Also I was corrected today at school. I previously said there was only 1 recorded death from wolves, actually there are none. There have been attacks (Alaska/Canada) but none have been fatal. Funny how we eradicated them to almost extinction though, as with other predators.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    5
    Last Mexican Grizzly Bear (smaller than its cousins in the north) was killed in the forties in Silver City and last known was killed in Chihuahua Mexico in 1962 I believe. Although listed as extinct there are some who have been hearing of sightings in the San Juan's (northern NM and Southern CO) and Scientists have gone and looked but with no luck and evidence suggests they are indeed extinct.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    5
    Keep your eyes open though because you never know what can happen!!

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwolf View Post
    As to what is crossing there has been increased activity of jaguars returning to the U.S. 3 have been spotted in AZ 1 was a male. They now have protected habitat in AZ and Southern NM, but of course chances of seeing one of them in the wild are less than being struck by lightning (actual fact lol). So if you see one go grab a lottery ticket asap ;-).
    ...If I see a Jaguar, that probably means it's seen me first and I'm probably closer than I want to be!

    Great info, thanks! Here's hoping my grandkids get to hear the howl of a wolf in the CO and NM backcountry!

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwolf View Post
    I previously said there was only 1 recorded death from wolves, actually there are none. There have been attacks (Alaska/Canada) but none have been fatal. Funny how we eradicated them to almost extinction though, as with other predators.
    Yeah...you hunt me, I kill you and make a necklace from your teeth. You hunt my food that I spend blood and sweat raising, I wipe you out and forget you. We humans are funny like that....

  21. #21
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,818
    Quote Originally Posted by 6bobby9 View Post
    Not too cool for those of us who bikepack and spend the night in them woods....
    Why? They don't normally attack humans. I live and ride in wolf country, nothing to be afeared of...
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  22. #22
    Genius
    Reputation: De La Pena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    894
    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Why? They don't normally attack humans. I live and ride in wolf country, nothing to be afeared of...
    Dude, I psych myself out until I finally pass out from the sheer exhaustion of paranoia. Every cracking stick or russel from the bushes has me tweeking. Just picture a man, in the dark woods at night, with a bell and bear spray in hand ready for battle with mother natures fiercest creatures.... but alas, it usually turns out to be a just deer or even a mouse from time to time.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    99
    No wolves in that area.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwolf View Post
    Last Mexican Grizzly Bear (smaller than its cousins in the north) was killed in the forties in Silver City and last known was killed in Chihuahua Mexico in 1962 I believe. Although listed as extinct there are some who have been hearing of sightings in the San Juan's (northern NM and Southern CO) and Scientists have gone and looked but with no luck and evidence suggests they are indeed extinct.
    I believe it was actually in '31 outside of Cliff, about 30 miles NW of Silver.

  25. #25
    Of the Nameless Rabble
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    114
    I am always happy to see wild animals of any type. I've seen everything from a litter of baby skunks (cute enough that they should be unlawful), to bobcats and cougar while riding. Even though an encounter with the latter freaked me out and made me seriously wonder about my place in the food chain, I always cringe at suggestions by some people about killing animals of any type, or being fearful of them.

    The way the world is these days, if I meet my maker as a result of being eaten by a wild animal, then I think I would consider it an honor. There are so many ways to go, and most of them are stupid—the most stupid being at the hands of another human being. Man is the worst animal of all, and if you are going to be fearful of anything out on the trail, it's probably best to be afraid of the monster that walks on two legs.

    Arrrwwoooo!
    ___________________________

    I like this place

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. East side of the Sandias
    By giantbikeboy in forum New Mexico
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-12-2012, 03:56 PM
  2. Out on the gray JT ...
    By CCMDoc in forum Vintage, Retro, Classic
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 07-30-2012, 02:41 PM
  3. That top 'off topic' topic per forum
    By Procter in forum Off Camber (off topic)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-28-2012, 08:24 AM
  4. Camping in the Sandias
    By LCdaveH in forum New Mexico
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-10-2011, 04:16 PM
  5. Replies: 58
    Last Post: 02-21-2011, 11:46 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •