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  1. #1
    Genius
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    Mountain Bikers for Trail Maintenance

    Mountain Bikers for Trail Maintenance is a group that have adopted trail 365 at Copper according the the posted sign on the trail. Until today I have never noticed this sign. It may have been there for some time but it looks fairly new. If any people here are "members" of this group or if you know how I can contact them please pm me or reply here.

    bob
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  2. #2
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    You could contact Alb Open Space for contact info. You'll want to talk with Jim Sattler.

  3. #3
    Genius
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    Trail Damage at Copper Trail 365

    "Mountain Bikers for Trail Maintenance" is the group who have adopted this section. They are either doing the sanitation, or doing nothing about it. Every day for the last month rocks have been removed. Destructively removed via sledgehammer. I have called and emailed Jim Sattler and Jolynn Maestas with the City Open Space to make him aware but it has had little to know effect. Be cause I may be the only one that has attempted to contact him I invite you all to make an attempt as well and hopefully if he gets 50 emails on this very topic it will get proper attention.

    This contact info has been taken from the city's webpage to I have no problem posting it here.

    Trail Watch Volunteers

    Trail Watch Volunteers are the foundation of the volunteer program - essentially, all volunteers are trained to be Trail Watch. Trail Watch is ideal for those volunteers who enjoy using the trails. Often referred to as Open Space "eyes and ears", these volunteers patrol areas of their choice and record observations, report problems and needs, and educate the public on proper resource use.

    Call Jolynn Maestas at 452-5207 or email jmaestas@cabq.gov for information.
    Adopt-an-Open Space

    As an extension of the Trail Watch Volunteer program, the Adopt-an-Open Space program was formed to concentrate stewardship in a targeted area. TWV duties are applied, but adopters also agree to organize at least one group project per year. Some areas may require more scheduled projects within a year. In the foothills, individuals or groups can adopt trails and assist with the essential maintenance of these visitor corridors. In the bosque, groups of 10 or more can adopt restoration areas and help with non-native plant control and trail maintenance. At the City's expense, a sign is installed in the adopted area recognizing the adopters efforts.

    Call Jim Sattler at 452-5213 or email jsattler@cabq.gov for information.


    Please take a moment to contact both of them by email, phone, or both and send them any pictures or pertinent information so this madness can be addressed.



    Albuquerque Open Space Trail Damage at Copper Trail 365
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    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  4. #4
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    Thanks Bobby - just sent an email.

  5. #5
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    I assure you Jim is not encouraging this activity and seriously doubt it's the Open Space trail group (unless there's a member doing it at off times). In fact Open Space employees have been pretty active in documenting and trying to figure it out as they are very concerned as well. I'm not sure flooding Jims email is going to help. He's well aware of the problem. Further, it's not the adopt a group's responsibility to enforce rules on the trails, they do occasional maintenance work in cooperation with Open Space but at no time would Open Space or the US Forest Service give enforcement power to volunteers.

    I'd recommend keeping an eye out and if you see something happening, report to Open Space police 242-COPS(2677) or our office 281-3304.

  6. #6
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    Maybe some well placed game cameras will help?
    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


  7. #7
    Genius
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    Sounds good Kerry, No one ever responded to my call or email so.... glad to know they are aware of it.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  8. #8
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    If open space was serious about protecting the trails, I think they'd have had posted some signage and a waged a media blitz about the vandalism.
    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBNate View Post
    If open space was serious about protecting the trails, I think they'd have had posted some signage and a waged a media blitz about the vandalism.
    I rode the SFH Monday for the first time since spring. You would think with all the time and effort that it took to do all that damage, someone would have seen the guy. Hope we can get this guy before he has it ready for paving. Seems to be all over the SFH.
    Sent on my Droid while hitting that $h!t

  10. #10
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    I think some signage would be good. At least to let trail users know that the problem is being addressed.

    I talked with a biker last week that said every time he finds a spot where a rock was removed and backfilled with dirt he goes through and kicks out that dirt. Although it does not help anything it does shed light on how many rocks have been removed.

    And for those that are thinking "it's not that bad.." go ride the trails and see for yourself. It is pretty sad that this type of vandalism has been allowed to carry on for so long. But when someone puts a couple off trail features together they are immediately destroyed.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  11. #11
    Genius
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    I received this response today from James at Open Space:

    "This activity has been going on for several weeks now and we have been unable to catch who ever is doing this. We will be doing an inventory of the damage and see what we can do to repair the damages. I will let you know if we schedule any special work days to address this issue. In the mean time if you see anyone performing work on the trails and they are not in an Open Space uniform please contact the Open Space Dispatcher at 452-5206 (between 8AM and 6:00PM) or 242 COPS to report to APD. If you see anyone doing work on Forest Service land please contact the Forest Service at 281-3304."


    So. As boring as it may be to ride the SFH this early before in the snow closes everywhere else, I request that as many people as possible start riding/patrolling/stalking the Indian school to copper trail at least until the a$$hat is caught/identified or this winter we will be really screwed out of anything worthwhile to ride. Tell other trail users you meet along the way to keep and eye out too. This are our trails and it is in our best interest to help keep an eye out.
    Last edited by De La Pena; 11-15-2012 at 03:31 PM.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  12. #12
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    Yup... Kind of funny that we ran into the officers on a section that the sanitizer has not hit yet. I expressed that to the officer that they are spending their time in an area that isn't even being vandalized.
    They said that they are making efforts by interviewing as many bikers, hikers, and homeowners below for info. Nothing so far. I told the officer that if I witnessed the vandal, I would not call only call him immediately, but take a pic of the guy, follow him to his car, take license plate #, and call him again. He said that was fine.
    This putz has done so much damage, don't know if there is much left to destroy on main trails. Nothing but potholes and rubble left behind from his efforts...should probably get a road bike for the south foothills now.

  13. #13
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    It's really not about us caring. We do care but it's about how much time we have to be out in any one spot. It's me and one other person for over 400 miles of trail (on the Sandia RD). While it's a great concern we cannot just sit out there and wait, we have other stuff to do. Spreading any kind of negative rants doesn't help either. Being our eyes will help. As I've posted before, my work cell is 250-5972. If you see something call me (or Open Space) I will do my best to get up there. If you can't reach me, call our district office at 281-3304 and they'll try to get a hold of me.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiggs View Post
    So... it turns out that the Forest Service and/or the Open Space does care about what's going on out there, but it's probably gonna be more focused on all of the building rather than the destroying that's going on. I guess we can look forward to a lot more terrain being destroyed in the coming weeks. Goodbye technical terrain features, goodbye fun, goodbye challenge, goodbye skill, goodbye persistence, goodbye progression, and hello smooth rolling paved singletrack as far as the eye can see.
    Would be nice if there could be some common ground building features with the Forest Service and Open Space. Albuquerque has more than enough riders and natural rocky terrain where we could all benefit. Thinking that it should be easy to catch the trail sanitizer. Wonder is FS or OS has some wildlife game cameras that could be planted in the interest of catching this guy???

  15. #15
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    I'm no FBI profile expert, but I'd venture to guess the SFH trail sanitizer is an older guy (50+) who has time to do his damage during the day between sunrise and 3PM on week days (based on the fact no one has see him on the weekends nor afterwork). If APS was serious about catching this dude, they need to be in position during those hours.
    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBNate View Post
    I'm no FBI profile expert, but I'd venture to guess the SFH trail sanitizer is an older guy (50+) who has time to do his damage during the day between sunrise and 3PM on week days (based on the fact no one has see him on the weekends nor afterwork). If APS was serious about catching this dude, they need to be in position during those hours.
    Good work agent starling. (sorry couldn't help it) It places the lotion on its skin, it does this when its told, or it gets the hose.

  17. #17
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    A couple thoughts.

    Trail sanitation and built features have nothing to do with one another. They do not grow in inverse proportions. A lack of one will not produce an abundance of the other.

    Theres not a whole lot that can be done to stop a single trail user from digging up one rock a day for a year. The only option may be to shame the person into stoping on thier own.

    I think printing up a sign with pictures of the damage along with a messesge such as "Your a piece of ****" is about the only thing to do. We cant take off from work to gaurd rocks.

    Putting it all on open space to fix is alot to ask. Just the fact that spent any time at all investigating trail sanitation is a shock to me. I am greatfull for that.

    It sucks that a single person can cause so much harm to a trail that seems so rugged and durable
    . A trail all of us love from all abilities and riding styles. It all sucks to be.essintially powerless to stop it but, if.this is the worst thing thats happend to you this month be greatfull. Thanksgiving is right around the corner so lets not lose perspective.



    P.S. sadly english is NOT my second language

  18. #18
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    My two cents.
    - APD does not not patrol the foothill trails, Open Space officers do. And yes, they have much bigger problems than trail sanitizers and are understaffed for what they do. I'd prefer if they concentrated on curtailing break-ins at trailheads. Arrest someone for moving a rock?
    - I haven't ridden the foothills since last spring so haven't seen the damage being discussed. Will ride tomorrow to take a look but I never thought the foothills trails were all that technical anyway. Good place to ride when the east mountains are weathered in. Ok, so I don't ride the power line trail very often.
    - What everyone seems to forget is the trails are multi-use, from the bikers to paint-ballers, to the dog doolie droppers. All it takes is one enterprising person walking or running on the trail and tripping on a rock then deciding to improve his/her running or walking course. Sort of like deciding to build technical features...
    - Vandalism? Damage? Can't be as bad as some of the moto-created trails going straight up slope and eroding badly over the decades. But I'll ride it tomorrow...

  19. #19
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    Amen Fuglio.

    I'm not sure how we got on to the built features conversation. I'd like to think most folks who have met/worked with me or the good folks at AOS know we are both out to do good things for trails in the ABQ area including creating a diversity of trail opportunities. I'd also guess that people involved with trails in the area know that volunteers are what get things done. I had no intention to complain about my workload but simply convey the reality that we need a community of trail users working together to get things done. It's true there's me and one other person (those other vehicles are being driven by folks on the district who clean recreation areas, put out forest fires, deal with timber, etc, etc). This last season volunteers contributed close to 2000 hours to build the new trail in Tunnel Canyon. Next season we'd like to continue our work including possibly extending and building new features on 3 Bottles and hopefully start tackling the downhill trails on Sandia (meaning making them official and possibly building more).

    I invite everyone to come out and work with us.

    BTW - Open Space has signs they will be posting about the trail damage. They're pretty well done and maybe we'll get a tip/call.

  20. #20
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    I agree, mostly. Two things though Fug.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    A couple thoughts.

    Trail sanitation and built features have nothing to do with one another. They do not grow in inverse proportions. A lack of one will not produce an abundance of the other.
    The two are directly proportional.

    Think about. If there the limited amount of technical riding is taken away, people will find opportunities to re-create technical riding. The mere existence of rogue trails is a demonstration of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fuglio View Post
    It sucks that a single person can cause so much harm to a trail that seems so rugged and durable
    . A trail all of us love from all abilities and riding styles. It all sucks to be.essintially powerless to stop it but, if.this is the worst thing thats happend to you this month be greatfull. Thanksgiving is right around the corner so lets not lose perspective.
    To me this is like saying you have a flat tire, but at least you have a tire.
    Last edited by Calhoun; 11-15-2012 at 09:01 AM.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

    -cabra cadabra

  21. #21
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    portrait of a trail sanitizer.....

    Back in 2009 I busted and confronted the guy pictured in this thread for sanitizing the NFH rock garden area. Wasn't until I threatened to call Open Space Dispatch that he stopped and moved along. He was belligerent, and didn't care about why he shouldn't be doing that. I reported him to FS and OS with the picture way back then. Wonder if he's still around and up to the same old crap?
    Portrait of a Trail Sanitizer
    Don't hate me because I'm Ti

  22. #22
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    That looks just like a guy that cussed me out two years ago for closing the forest (forest fire closure) "cause it's easier...." I'll keep a copy of the photo and be on the lookout when I'm out there.

  23. #23
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    What is the legal penalty for a trail sanitizer anyway?

    Fine?
    Jail?
    "Someone must have put alcohol in my beer last night." ~ Mr. Richard Baty, Esq.


  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBNate View Post
    What is the legal penalty for a trail sanitizer anyway?

    Fine?
    Jail?
    Pineapple sodomy


  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBNate View Post
    What is the legal penalty for a trail sanitizer anyway?

    Fine?
    Jail?

    According to the newly posted signs, you can be fined up to $300.00 dollars. I don't remember if it said anything about jail. Probably fine or up to 90 days. Kinda like littering.

    I do wish the signs were out in the middle of the trail and out on the trail where people will actually see them. The one at copper is off to the side with the other 10 signs. I would not have seen this one if I had not been looking for it in the first place. Maybe they can be moved to the middle of the trail and have neon or bright lettering of some kind.

    I am glad to see a sign up but one 11x17 inch sign next to 5 others, all which are off to the side of the trail, will not be noticed.
    Last edited by De La Pena; 11-18-2012 at 08:53 PM.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

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