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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Leash Your Dogs Guys

    Just a reminder to leash your dogs guys. I saw a guy carrying his dog back to the car yesterday after it got hit by a biker in the SFH. The dog could not walk under its own power. It was also not on a leash. Don't think it cant happen to you or your dog.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  2. #2
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    Poor dog. It is the rider's responsibility to ensure the ability to stop for wandering animals, small children, cops, etc. Someone ought to put a brown recluse in that rider's chamois.

  3. #3
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    Good point. I've succumb to sticking to wide jeep trails in my area when I run my dog. The trails are banned for vehicles and so far all I ever encounter is an occasional jogger. I totally stay off the single tracks where I know there are other riders. Sorry it happened to them, hopefully the dog will be ok.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine Willie
    Poor dog. It is the rider's responsibility to ensure the ability to stop for wandering animals, small children, cops, etc. Someone ought to put a brown recluse in that rider's chamois.
    wrong

    it is the dog owner's responsibility to keep the animal on a leash. biker didn't break the law, the dog owner did.

    it is sad to hear that the dog was injured, but it is wrong to blame the rider.

  5. #5
    Genius
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun
    wrong

    it is the dog owner's responsibility to keep the animal on a leash. biker didn't break the law, the dog owner did.

    it is sad to hear that the dog was injured, but it is wrong to blame the rider.

    Yes. This is true. Its actually against the city ordinance in the NFS and SFH to not leash your animal. There are signs at every trail head stating this. There are lots of blind corners, blind hills, tall brush, and huge boulders that line the trails. We all see many people that let there dogs "run wild" out there and don't keep them under control. Accidents will happen, but if you let your animal stray on and off the trail or get many yards in front or behind you, your putting your animal and others in harms way.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

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    Fair enough about the leash ordinance (and too bad—dogs need to run free every now and again. Just my opinion.). Nevertheless, there is a moral imperative, or there should be, that says every rider should be in control and able to stop should the unexpected pop up. That dog could have just as well been a kid or an elderly person or someone having a seizure. While It's sometime inconvenient and not as much fun to ride in total control (believe me, I love to ride out of control sometimes and wish I could do it more), I can't help but believe it's incumbent upon riders to be able to deal with any situation that may crop up as safely as possible, such as a dog running onto the trail or some type of endangered species showing up unannounced. That said, my brown recluse comment earlier was probably too harsh. I agree. We don't know the whole story. Maybe the rider did everything they could and it still ended badly.

    I guess my point is, and the reason I chimed in in the first place, is every incident like this reinforces the bicyclists-are-a-menace mentality and stereotype that limits our access and fosters the type of ill-will we sometimes see exhibited by some non-riders.

    Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Thanks for everyone's indulgence.

  7. #7
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    Good Points Moonshine... Dogs should be on a leash in the Foothills. It is an ordinance. But I agree with you that we do need to ride in control and anticipate the unexpected. Way too many blind corners to be careless.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine Willie
    Fair enough about the leash ordinance (and too bad—dogs need to run free every now and again. Just my opinion.). Nevertheless, there is a moral imperative, or there should be, that says every rider should be in control and able to stop should the unexpected pop up. That dog could have just as well been a kid or an elderly person or someone having a seizure. While It's sometime inconvenient and not as much fun to ride in total control (believe me, I love to ride out of control sometimes and wish I could do it more), I can't help but believe it's incumbent upon riders to be able to deal with any situation that may crop up as safely as possible, such as a dog running onto the trail or some type of endangered species showing up unannounced. That said, my brown recluse comment earlier was probably too harsh. I agree. We don't know the whole story. Maybe the rider did everything they could and it still ended badly.

    I guess my point is, and the reason I chimed in in the first place, is every incident like this reinforces the bicyclists-are-a-menace mentality and stereotype that limits our access and fosters the type of ill-will we sometimes see exhibited by some non-riders.

    Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Thanks for everyone's indulgence.
    The thing about the "unexpected" is that it is, well, unexpected.

    On a recent ride I encountered two separate sets of unleashed dogs running well in advance of their person. I don't know them or their dogs and don't have a clue how the situation is going to resolve. Dogs can charge, dart, or who knows what. I come to a complete foot on the ground stop and wait until dogs and walker have made their way past.

    I love dogs. I have quite a few adorable fur children. I do not take them out on the bike trails.

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  9. #9
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    Jim Beam is the man.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCdaveH
    The thing about the "unexpected" is that it is, well, unexpected.
    ..
    That's why we need to "anticipate" the unexpected... don't ride your bike on autopilot, but be prepared. That's why I think a bell helps. If you use it, it get's you into a habit of thinking about what may be around that blind corner and slow down a bit.

    Now image that dog isn't a dog but it is an 8 year old kid running ahead of their parents. If you ride a "vehicle" you need to be able to control it... bottom line.
    Dug-Da-Goat

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  11. #11
    Genius
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat
    That's why we need to "anticipate" the unexpected... don't ride your bike on autopilot, but be prepared. That's why I think a bell helps. If you use it, it get's you into a habit of thinking about what may be around that blind corner and slow down a bit.

    Now image that dog isn't a dog but it is an 8 year old kid running ahead of their parents. If you ride a "vehicle" you need to be able to control it... bottom line.
    True. Which is why I don't let my kid run out ahead of me. She is always within arms reach and she just happens to be turning 8 in a couple months.

    As for myself, I always stop for others, whether they are on foot, bike or horse. I'd like to think I am the most courteous rider out, just like a lot of us do and probably are. Yet, I still have run over snakes, rabbits, hit a dog and knocked bars/shoulders with other riders who in my estimation were not riding out of control either. But these are the dangers indicative to a multi-use multi-directional trail that has a good hundred blind spots in the middle of "steep" climbs and descents. Its very easy to hit 30+mph up here. I try not to get above 15mph, but even at that it still takes 30 feet to stop on a downhill.


    Just be careful guys.
    "I think im gonna go to walmart and look at the mountain bikes and see if i can salvage the rear frame."- Nick_Knipp 3/21/12

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bobby9
    Just be careful guys.
    Agree Bobby, dogs not on a leash suck... and yes we all need to be careful!
    Dug-Da-Goat

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  13. #13
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    Good points and discussion. Local ordinance does allow for dogs to be off-leash when they are being trained. I am allowed to train my dogs legally off-leash, whether it be search and rescue, for retrieving, etc, but it is also my responsibility to have my canines under control and not be a hazard to others.
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  14. #14
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    Dog & Butterfly

    Quote Originally Posted by DaGoat
    That's why we need to "anticipate" the unexpected... don't ride your bike on autopilot, but be prepared. That's why I think a bell helps. If you use it, it get's you into a habit of thinking about what may be around that blind corner and slow down a bit.

    Now image that dog isn't a dog but it is an 8 year old kid running ahead of their parents. If you ride a "vehicle" you need to be able to control it... bottom line.
    Kids don't normally have a leash attached to them. Nor do they normally attack and maul you.

    I understand the need to be aware of what's on the trails but the responsibility to control an animal lies on the owner. After an encounter with a dog owner who got upset with *FOREVERBANNED* because he didn't yield to an un-leashed furry child, I started carrying a copy of the ABQ Heart Ordinance in my pack. If I'm confronted by an angry owner, I reference it and offer to call 311 or the APD non-emergency number at 242-COPS(2677).

    It's the two-legged animals that cause the most problems.
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  15. #15
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    What if your dogs are smarter than some Bandoleros/FOO members? Can they be off leash?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmtim
    What if your dogs are smarter than some Bandoleros/FOO members? Can they be off leash?
    Only on certain days... What days those are I'm not sure.


    Back to the topic at hand. Striking wildlife or pets on the trail sucks. I've had encounters with both deer and skunk on the trail. The deer actually got up and t-boned the bike and I was unable to get their insurance information. It is unfortunate that sh** happens, but it is more how one deals with the incident after the fact.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine Willie
    Fair enough about the leash ordinance (and too bad—dogs need to run free every now and again. Just my opinion.). Nevertheless, there is a moral imperative, or there should be, that says every rider should be in control and able to stop should the unexpected pop up. That dog could have just as well been a kid or an elderly person or someone having a seizure. While It's sometime inconvenient and not as much fun to ride in total control (believe me, I love to ride out of control sometimes and wish I could do it more), I can't help but believe it's incumbent upon riders to be able to deal with any situation that may crop up as safely as possible, such as a dog running onto the trail or some type of endangered species showing up unannounced. That said, my brown recluse comment earlier was probably too harsh. I agree. We don't know the whole story. Maybe the rider did everything they could and it still ended badly.

    I guess my point is, and the reason I chimed in in the first place, is every incident like this reinforces the bicyclists-are-a-menace mentality and stereotype that limits our access and fosters the type of ill-will we sometimes see exhibited by some non-riders.

    Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Thanks for everyone's indulgence.

    This. I agree dogs need to run free now & then, too. I think most unleashed dogs are probably pretty friendly, too- otherwise the owner probably wouldn't let them off the leash or out in public. We need to ride in control & make ourselves announced to prevent the reputation of being dangerous. Stuff happens though. Hell- I also had a friend who once hit a deer riding on a trail!

    But, most of the time dogs, children, and the elderly should be kept on leashes when out in public

  18. #18
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    the one thing I hate more than a loose dog on the trail or anywhere else, is their owner's obnoxious sense of self entitlement.

  19. #19
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    Uh... shouldn't this be on a hiking message board? Wouldn't it be impossible to ride while tethered to a dog?

    Regardless, at least in Santa Fe, no one hikes with a dog on a leash. It defeats the whole purpose of taking your animal into the forest. I personally have no problem with it either. I only go as fast as I can see on crowded trails near town. What I mean by that is I can always come to a stop within my field of view. As a result I have never hit anything or anyone while riding and I have been doing this since the Reagan administration.

    It is all about experience and common sense, ride conservatively around population centers and let it rip out in Cochiti or way out on RV. I would venture to guess that most negative bike on hiker/dog encounters occur with newb riders who entered the sport after the advent of hydraulic discs. As great as the new technology is it can provide novices with a false sense of security.

  20. #20
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    Scooby Too

    Quote Originally Posted by nmtim
    What if your dogs are smarter than some Bandoleros/FOO members? Can they be off leash?
    I've seen your dogs. They drink as much beer as any bando.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad h
    Regardless, at least in Santa Fe, no one hikes with a dog on a leash. It defeats the whole purpose of taking your animal into the forest.
    The city speed limit defeats the purpose of owning a vehicle that can do 0-60 in < 5 seconds. It still doesn't mean that it's legal in all places.

    In Albuquerque Open Space, you must have your animal on a leash < 8'. I'm sure there is something similar in Santa Fe.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by notaknob
    I've seen your dogs. They drink as much beer as any bando.
    LOL. Joking aside I think there can be room for compromise. I take my dogs on rides but I do not let them run free unless I give a release command. They are trained to run close behind me so I have control at all times. If we are climbing, I have the ROW so its not an issue. If you hit my dogs then you'll have to plow through me first. On the descents I have plenty of time to see approaching riders so I can get them off trail and allow ascending riders to pass. I also don't take them out on the weekends during the busy parts of the day.

    I’ve only had one issue so far and I was in control the whole time. Some guy who happened to be an open space volunteer threatened to call the police. I was pulled over with me between the rider and the dogs so it was hard to believe why he was so upset… Anyways, I do feel sorry for the dog who got hit but the owner should have had control of his animal.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by notaknob
    The city speed limit defeats the purpose of owning a vehicle that can do 0-60 in < 5 seconds. It still doesn't mean that it's legal in all places.

    In Albuquerque Open Space, you must have your animal on a leash < 8'. I'm sure there is something similar in Santa Fe.
    You are correct, according to the letter of the law dogs should be leashed on Dale Ball, Atalaya etc... Again, I don't care that no one obeys this law because I frankly find it ridiculous. I have never had a negative encounter with a dog and that is partly due to the fact that I ride in control and generally express a friendly non-threatening demeanor.

    No doubt, out of all the dogs in Santa Fe one or two are aggressive beasts that must be restrained and this law is a reflection of that. However, this sort of lowest common denominator solution takes all discretion out of individual dog owners' hands and as a result the law is ignored across the board.

    Ultimately, imo, it is a reflection on an overly litigious society that eschews personal responsibility. You are free to take down names and report dog owners who unlawfully allow their pets some freedom in your community just as I am free to slow down, say hi, and continue to enjoy my ride.

  24. #24
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    Dogs can be way cool...

    I'll admit I use to have a trail dog that I rode with in the Foothills off leash. Pepper was one of the greatest trail dogs... she was a working dog and damn smart. She knew when to be in front of the bike (climbing) and when to drop behind (descending). And her whole world revolved around "herding" a bike.

    She was also really good at voice command so when I would come upon hikers, all I had to say was "Pepper, here!" and she would run right up to my bike and sit down next to me.
    Use to freak people out because if you know how working dogs operate, their response is instantaneous.

    Wish all dogs could be like Pepper!
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  25. #25
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    My trail dog was a black lab. MAN he was happy on rides. When we'd get to a dirt road in a car, he'd freak out and start whining, so eventually we'd just let him out to run along side the car until we reached the trail head. Then we'd do a 25 mile ride, but he'd go all over and probably run 35 miles.

    The problem with a retreiver trail dog is they're usually carrying an enormous stick. When they heel, it goes right into the spokes, so we'd usually let him lead.

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