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Thread: Muzzle loaders

  1. #1
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    Muzzle loaders

    Just an FYI its muzzle loader season in the NJ parks and just in case you think muzzle loaders are the things the civil war buffs carry around, check this out!



    I ran into a couple of dudes in Stephens toting these things and asked what season it was, they said "muzzle loader" so I asked if the guns they were carrying were muzzle loaders, and they said they were and gave me a complete run down of the guns function. I then asked how they compared to buckshot, to which one dude replied that they were nothing like buckshot, and that he could shoot 200 yards with one of these It looks like rifle season has arrived to the NJ woods near you! I am not sure how these things got approved in Jersey although I am sure they are meeting the letter of the rules applying to muzzle loaders, the function is pure long range rifle!

    wear orange brothers!

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    Quote Originally Posted by shreddr View Post
    Just an FYI its muzzle loader season in the NJ parks and just in case you think muzzle loaders are the things the civil war buffs carry around, check this out!



    I ran into a couple of dudes in Stephens toting these things and asked what season it was, they said "muzzle loader" so I asked if the guns they were carrying were muzzle loaders, and they said they were and gave me a complete run down of the guns function. I then asked how they compared to buckshot, to which one dude replied that they were nothing like buckshot, and that he could shoot 200 yards with one of these It looks like rifle season has arrived to the NJ woods near you! I am not sure how these things got approved in Jersey although I am sure they are meeting the letter of the rules applying to muzzle loaders, the function is pure long range rifle!

    wear orange brothers!
    Don't be an alarmist. Shotguns are capable of similar distances with slugs.

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    Don't be an idiot, redneck. Yeah slugs will go 200 yards but anybody shooting slugs beyond 50 yards would be lucky to hit the side of a barn. I am saying that these muzzle loaders are shooting at things 200 yards away and evidently hitting them so the range must be a hell of a lot farther than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shreddr View Post
    Don't be an idiot, redneck. Yeah slugs will go 200 yards but anybody shooting slugs beyond 50 yards would be lucky to hit the side of a barn. I am saying that these muzzle loaders are shooting at things 200 yards away and evidently hitting them so the range must be a hell of a lot farther than that.
    That's old fashioned slugs, genius. Modern rifled barreled slug guns shooting sabot slugs can really reach out and touch someone. But it's cool, yap your uninformed opinion all you want.

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    Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Shotgun :: SST Slugs :: 12 GA SST 300 gr FTX Slug

    Drops about 6 and a half inches at 200 yards.

    Ignorance is curable.

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    ....and they've been around for decades, nothing new.

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    I would concur with the Hi-Vis comment anytime you ride during hunting season anywhere hunting could occur. It doesn't take many pellets from a turkey load to ruin your ride. Not trying to be an alarmist, just speaking from a lifetime of experience with both bikes and firearms.

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    Muzzle loaders

    Quote Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
    Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Shotgun :: SST Slugs :: 12 GA SST 300 gr FTX Slug

    Drops about 6 and a half inches at 200 yards.

    Ignorance is curable.
    Accurate or not I don't want to be on the receiving end of one where someone didn't see me. It doesn't require accuracy to shoot someone by mistake.


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    Dude, bro, man, the point is that these are being used in NJ, and have been for some time. And I can't recall the last time a non hunter was shot by a hunter in NJ. These rounds can't magically penetrate trees, and most hunters are very responsible.

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    Muzzle loaders

    Quote Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
    Dude, bro, man, the point is that these are being used in NJ, and have been for some time. And I can't recall the last time a non hunter was shot by a hunter in NJ. These rounds can't magically penetrate trees, and most hunters are very responsible.
    I wasnt having a stab at what you said. It doesn't matter if you can remember when if someone has been accidentally shot or not, I was just stating the obvious. Just cause something hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't. Accidents happen. Your sarcastic comment regarding rounds going through trees is rather ignorant. Rounds can ricochet, stray etc. even the most responsible safe people can be SOL sometimes.

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/...n-loading-gun/

    Just sayin.

    Guns can be dangerous even with the best of training and handling. I've seen many neglative discharges and rounds straying during my two tours.



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    Quote Originally Posted by shreddr View Post
    Don't be an idiot, redneck. Yeah slugs will go 200 yards but anybody shooting slugs beyond 50 yards would be lucky to hit the side of a barn. I am saying that these muzzle loaders are shooting at things 200 yards away and evidently hitting them so the range must be a hell of a lot farther than that.
    Why would accuracy matter if you are getting shot on accident? "Idiot, Redneck" those are strong words... Maybe if you did get shot it wouldn't be by accident the way you treat people.

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    Hunting is not allowed on Sundays in NJ. Not to say someone might ignore that law though.

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    200 yards is not that far for a rifle folks. Its not close quarters, but not that far.

    Oh yea,, ALARM ALARM ALARM!!!!

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    Sometimes I miss by a hair clicking my home forum (New Mexico) and end up in NJ or NY. Usually just back out, but sometimes its interesting to see how others live. By contrast, the 300 Winchester Magnum is considered medium range here. And its usually two or three pages into the post before we start telling others to f"!@ off and die. You guys are way advanced, but remember, we had nuclear weapons first.
    On the subject of mountain biking, we are in a Biblical drought, so many trails have been open all winter. The down side is catastrophic forest fires, so most of our National Forests will surely close in May.

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    Whether people get shot or not that often, doesn't matter that much. What matters the most is that any country park, state park or wildlife area that allows hunting makes non-hunters feel less safe and they tend to avoid the area or use it less. This isn't the South or MidWest after-all.

    It is called deterrence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyFokker View Post
    Whether people get shot or not that often, doesn't matter that much. What matters the most is that any country park, state park or wildlife area that allows hunting makes non-hunters feel less safe and they tend to avoid the area or use it less. This isn't the South or MidWest after-all.

    It is called deterrence.
    A lot of public land in all states has been purchased with money raised from hunting licenses. Even NJ. If non hunters feel less safe during NJ's brief hunting season, they can go to one of the many pieces of public land that doesn't allow hunting. All outdoor user groups need access and the more user groups there are, the more public land there will be.

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    Edit: Wrote this before rushing out the house, it needed proofreading bad.

    What you are saying is just like saying there is some kind of mythical equality between pedestrians, bicyclists and motor-vehicle drivers on the streets, and that the more public transport funds spent biased toward roadways and highways that are built, the more all three groups will be able to get around. But this is absolutely not the case, pedestrians will simply get squashed by the average American car weighing a monstrous 2 tons. Unequal groups cannot compete for the same space, equally.

    According to this:
    NJDEP Division of Fish & Wildlife - Wildlife Management Area System
    --- Since 1961 and the advent of Green Acres Funds(not connected to hunting), half of the present system of Wildlife Management Areas was purchased. Also keep in mind that earlier in time, property was much cheaper.

    -- "In New Jersey, the 2006 National Survey found that 696,000 people hunted fished, and more than 2,098,000 people participated in other wildlife-oriented recreational activities (bird feeding, wildlife observation, photography, etc.)."

    Again to the car analogy, you cannot equate people with deadly weapons using a public space as equal to those not using the same deadly technology. It is just the nature of the technology in question. Just as pedestrians cannot feel safe on a 40+ mph roadway even if that is the only way for them to get around, the much greater number of wildlife enthusiasts who have no intention to kill wildlife, aren't ever going to feel as safe as long as hunters with guns and bows could be around.
    Last edited by RoyFokker; 04-18-2014 at 10:33 AM.

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    From your own source, half the money to purchase land still comes from hunters and anglers (despite the fact that they make up only 1/4th of the outdoor enthusiasts), along with virtually all the operating funds. There are numerous pieces of land in NJ that don't allow hunting, hunting is not permitted on state land on Sundays, gun season in NJ is brief, and hunting plays a valuable role in managing the land by regulating the populations of game animals. Also I ride my bike in the street with cars all the time. I walk/run too. It's all good.

  19. #19
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    Muzzle loaders

    Don't care what facts are, fact of the matter is id rather be riding in an area where people are not popping off shots.

    Believe it's called human nature.




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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyFokker View Post
    Not the case, pedestrians will simply get squashed by the average American car weighing a monstrous 2 tons.
    To be fair, a svelte 1 ton vehicle is not going to squash you any less.

    I don't have a problem with paying more to hunt and fish as a lot of money is spent maintaining wildlife as a direct result of my impact on said wildlife. Lakes do not need to be stocked with fish for hikers or bikers. Rangers do not have to be on the job, driving around all day, hiking through the woods all day to look for poaching bikers. Maintaining wildlife is money intensive, while maintaining biking (and some hiking) trails is, in many areas, largely volunteer work.

    Obviously this will vary some by region, but I have no problem paying for my fishing license and occasionally a hunting license because I know they need more money to keep everything in balance so I can hunt and fish.

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    @rebel1916:
    Like flamingtaco pointed out most of the operating funds are likely needed just to police hunters and fishers to prevent them from poaching and over-hunting and fishing. In the case of fishing, most rivers and lakes in the area cannot produce fish other then the perennial and tenacious sunnies, alot of money probably goes into trucking in fish.

    Prey populations get out of hand because of the lack of natural predators, not because of a lack of hunters. Mountain lions, bobcats and wolves scare middle class Americans who scream for more roads and less of a tax burden to subsidize their driving habit, but cars cause 1.5 million deaths and 78 million injuries per year worldwide! See:
    Is It Time for a Real War on Cars? | EcoWatch
    Bringing back the natural predators of New Jersey is the only real solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by rebel1916 View Post
    ... Also I ride my bike in the street with cars all the time. I walk/run too. It's all good.
    I will guarantee if almost any typical North American takes up bicycling, by that they will actually drive their car even more than before, this time with a car on the roof rack, rear rack -- making the roads actually less safe for cyclists and those walking. And I see Americans often running on the road likewise, to nowhere just for sport or cardio. When they want to get stuff done, they use the car, so they are likewise not increasing the modal share for non motor vehicle transport. This is probably what you are talking about it and it is not all good. Alot of people are too young to drive, they don't have the money to own a car(the car deprived), they are too old to drive, etc., and they are essentially enclaved by not being able to own or drive a motor vehicle. It is all good for people cycling or running just to sport, cardio or fun, but who use their car everyday to go to work, shop, etc.

    There is a good website written by a British expat to the Netherlands:
    A view from the cycle path
    It explains why in the Netherlands one third of the total trips taken by Dutch are by bicycle, something we cannot dream of in the USA. He says that in a country like the USA only the ultra-brave, determined or lycra clad sports enthusiasts form the 2% who will cycle no matter what, despite totally unsuitable conditions that make most feel unsafe bicycling. In the Netherlands grandmas and grandpas bicycle, little children bicycle to school without the scene of the disgusting helicopter parents of the USA, parents cycle with their toddlers, because they know there are bicycle lanes or roads that are for thru traffic only with 20 mph speed limits where their kids are safe at very young ages to go to school by themselves.

    When people feel safe doing something, more people will do it. Anecdotally, Wildlife Management Areas are the most deserted green spaces in Morris County. Probably if they conducted a study or survey, the reason would be because non-hunters, who are by far the majority, don't feel safe in those spaces. In the same way, because Netherlands has made it safe to bicycle almost everywhere, the bike racks infront of their schools are full of bikes. But in the USA where it is not safe for kids to do the same, the bike racks are almost all totally empty. Similarly to the roads, the small minority of hunters make non-hunters feel unsafe sharing the same space.
    Last edited by RoyFokker; 04-27-2014 at 06:50 PM.

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    You may think it's unlikely, but the fact remains that hunters and fishers have paid to preserve a large percentage of public land. Deal with it.


    I don't now, but I have commuted by bike in the past. Some car drivers are a-holes, most are not, vigilance is essential, and whether recreational/fitness, or utility driven, it's still all good.

    Your political viewpoints are extreme, but hey, this is America, you are entitled to be extravagantly, ludicrously, obsessively wrong.

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    You are beyond daft. And sadly you are entitled to your redneck views since how else could the Native Americans have been driven off and genocided or states like pre-Civil War Virgina have maintained themselves with half their population being slaves in bondage without all the settler-colonists who needed guns "to protect themselves"(as the gun apologists hilariously say today, when the real history of this practice is beyond obvious and already mentioned).

    I live in Morris County but feel safer bicycling in Manhattan, even though objectively there are far more cars. Why? Because due to the density, the constant lights, cars actually travel slower than bicycles, so I can reach more of a parity with cars in Manhattan at least in terms of speed. In Morris County there are fewer cars going far too fast for a bicycle to match and this makes it feel much more dangerous bicycling in the shoulder, than when riding between cars in Manhattan. Similarly until non-rednecks have as much ability to inflict death, they will not feel as safe in the woods, and non-rednecks simply don't think like that or want to -- so the impasse will never be bridged.

    You don't want to understand this a problem that is innate to technologies that can cause harm and death and instead want to reduce it to an "it's all good" nonsense level of analysis just because you happen to drive almost everywhere or like perching in a canopy with a gun to kill animals.

  24. #24
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    These conversations are great up until name calling and entitlement bashing begins. On to better threads...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyFokker View Post
    You are beyond daft. And sadly you are entitled to your redneck views\
    What's funny is in most circles I'm seen as being somewhat lefty. Just not whacky.

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