Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,564

    IMBA/Subaru Trail Care Crew is coming to South Mountain Reservation

    Folks,

    I just wanted to make sure everyone was aware that IMBA/Subaru TCC is coming out to South Mountain Reservation on July 7-8 for a weekend of education and trail building.

    We hope that we can get a great group of motivated mountain bikers to come out and show Essex County Parks how much value our user group adds to a park. with your participation, you help us open eyes and change minds at South Mountain Reservation.

    The Press Release and Invitation is attached. Feel free to distribute to anyone that might be able to pass the word.

    Riders, for planning purposes, please RSVP here: http://go.imba.com/somo

    More information: http://www.jorba.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=566

  2. #2
    K Lives
    Reputation: karateka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    140
    I AM THERE.

    That was my old stomping grounds. Can't make it saturday but i'll be there 10-12 on sunday. I didn't read anything about bringing tools; shovels, saws, spades, anything else that I should try bringing?

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,564
    Quote Originally Posted by karateka
    I AM THERE.

    That was my old stomping grounds. Can't make it saturday but i'll be there 10-12 on sunday. I didn't read anything about bringing tools; shovels, saws, spades, anything else that I should try bringing?

    Cool... Sunday works.

    No, just RSVP online http://go.imba.com/somo and wear sturdy shoes and bring work gloves, that's it... we'll supply the tools.

  4. #4
    banned
    Reputation: Flat tyres's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    316
    I was just wondering:

    Is South Mountain closed to bikes?

    If so, is this an effort to regain a once great place to ride?

    Thanks,
    FT

  5. #5
    K Lives
    Reputation: karateka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    I was just wondering:

    Is South Mountain closed to bikes?

    If so, is this an effort to regain a once great place to ride?

    Thanks,
    FT

    SMR is OFF LIMITS to mountain bikers, thanks to the local hikers and horseriders.

    Correct me if i'm wrong but yes, this is an effort to reclaim our turf. Be part of the SMR history and help out if you can! this place rocks!

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    119

    I must admit

    I rode this weekend where bikes have been banned (not SMR) and the place was a mess. It didn't look like any TM by hikers or horse people had been done there in a long time. Erosion damage everywhere, man made bridges falling apart. Compare it to places where MTBing is allowed and that have active TM groups it makes a great case against anyone who claims bikes ruin the trails. I'm always amazed at how fast problems are addressed and rectified at my usual spots. I do have to add that, after dismounting on the approach of some horses to let them by, one of the riders thanked us for the right of way and said she wished the bikers where she rode did the same. A little trail etiquette goes a long way. I know, I know it doesn't help the cause by riding off limit parks but I would have taken the ticket like a man if caught, saying "but I thought this was Chimney Rock, officer!"

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,564
    Quote Originally Posted by Flat tyres
    I was just wondering:

    Is South Mountain closed to bikes?

    If so, is this an effort to regain a once great place to ride?

    Thanks,
    FT
    correct!

    talk to frank next time you see him... he'll give you the 411.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,564
    Quote Originally Posted by mmuller
    I rode this weekend where bikes have been banned (not SMR) and the place was a mess. It didn't look like any TM by hikers or horse people had been done there in a long time. Erosion damage everywhere, man made bridges falling apart. Compare it to places where MTBing is allowed and that have active TM groups it makes a great case against anyone who claims bikes ruin the trails. I'm always amazed at how fast problems are addressed and rectified at my usual spots. I do have to add that, after dismounting on the approach of some horses to let them by, one of the riders thanked us for the right of way and said she wished the bikers where she rode did the same. A little trail etiquette goes a long way. I know, I know it doesn't help the cause by riding off limit parks but I would have taken the ticket like a man if caught, saying "but I thought this was Chimney Rock, officer!"

    hey mark... yep, your point about single-use parks being not actively maintained is very true. south mountain suffers from this, in fact your description above is a perfect desc of SoMo itself.... its a mess, a POS (which a direct quote from a hiker who's very active and very supportive of this cause) rife will fall line trails, off camber junk you could drive a truck through (except for the fact it would roll over )

    but the place has a lot of potential. lots.

    on the dismount... efforts like yours (and everyone else who dismounts for equestrians) is huge. i hear it all the time how much they appreciate our trail ettiquette. also, hikers are really starting tone down the rhretoric. we're doing joint sessions with hikers in several parks and things are very encouraging. in fact, the most powerful advocate for mtb that I know is a hiker.

    good times...

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,564
    Quote Originally Posted by karateka
    SMR is OFF LIMITS to mountain bikers, thanks to the local hikers and horseriders.

    Correct me if i'm wrong but yes, this is an effort to reclaim our turf. Be part of the SMR history and help out if you can! this place rocks!

    karateka, thanks for coming out... we hope to see you there.

    as far as hikers are concerned. again, the history of the place has more to do with a few very vocal local people that ignored science and cashed in on a mountain dew/adrenaline junkie/wreck the trails false impression of mtb'ers.

    well, its a decade later and if that ever was reality, its not now. sure i like going fast but i also like maintaining trails. most people i know ride, dig, repeat. casual trail users are casual about maintaining trails. we tend to be way more than casual about all of that....

    also, let's all remember that hikers may have thrown us out, but they will be the allies that assist on getting us back in. they key is changing their impressions above and showing them how much of an asset we are to a park that is really really in need of some assets. the place is hurtin and would not be if there was a passionate and educated user group (like us) that knows how to keep a park lookin and feelin great.

  10. #10
    i want spring!
    Reputation: Dirty Bert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    476

    Banned

    So if an effort is being made for South Mtn, what about getting mtn biking reinstated for Watchung Reservation? That was one of the "other" better places to ride in NJ. What need to be done there?

    South Mtn rules!

    ~Db
    Check out all these mountain biking t-shirts, hats, sweatshirts by Trail Hog today!

  11. #11
    K Lives
    Reputation: karateka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Bert
    So if an effort is being made for South Mtn, what about getting mtn biking reinstated for Watchung Reservation? That was one of the "other" better places to ride in NJ. What need to be done there?

    South Mtn rules!

    ~Db
    forgive me, but I never really liked Watchung. Maybe I haven't given it much of a try. But yes i'm game!

    remember though, SMR is big and let's not spread ourselves too thin with Watchung. i would say one thing at a time...

    and you are right, SM RULES.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: stoked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    414
    I was riding in Watchung last Sunday for the 1st time. It is a beautiful place. Forgot to mention I was on my road bike

    I think more choices we have better it is for us all.

    Mergs I will try to make this TM if I am not busy with work.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    83
    I'll be there on Saturday to lend a hand. Glad to see that the wheels are in motion at SM so to speak.

    The trails really are in rough shape. In addition to poor design, I honestly think it's a case of not enough use. A lot of trails are overgrown, and even the "popular" trails don't get enough use - as a result people do things they should on the trails...like litter

    I wouldn't expect much at Watchung, although I've been to a few of the park meetings and they aren't anti-bike. Their situation is different since they have the horse stable right in the reservation. I don't think the horse owners are too interested in letting bikes back into the park. It's a shame because Watchung used to be a great place to ride as well.

  14. #14
    RTM
    RTM is offline
    #1 Latex Salesman
    Reputation: RTM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,626
    I give you guys a lot of credit. don't you worry South Mountain officials are just taking advantage of your good nature? If they really need evidence of the good that our community can bring, they can refer to many examples of bikes, hikers and horses living in harmony all across the state. Why do we have to constantly bow down and hope they throw us a bone? I would prefer to see IMBA and JORBA dedicate their time and money to improving places we're allowed to ride. Not someplace that says "thanks guys, now get the hell out before we give you a ticket".

  15. #15
    K Lives
    Reputation: karateka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    140
    just thinking out loud, i wonder what would happen if about 50 MTB'ers were to descend onto SMR to not just maintain trails, but to ride, all at once? Some would get ticketed but most would end up with a nice ride? Hypothetical.

  16. #16
    lotto baby
    Reputation: clarkenstein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    553
    Quote Originally Posted by karateka
    just thinking out loud, i wonder what would happen if about 50 MTB'ers were to descend onto SMR to not just maintain trails, but to ride, all at once? Some would get ticketed but most would end up with a nice ride? Hypothetical.
    yeah, i don't know if a hostile takeover of a trail would really work in the favor of long-term access
    i spurt in the wind, and the wind drug it

  17. #17
    K Lives
    Reputation: karateka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by clarkenstein
    hostile takeover
    that is the phrase I was looking for. maybe we can stage a takeover similar to this. a fun movie for 1986.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,564
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    I give you guys a lot of credit. don't you worry South Mountain officials are just taking advantage of your good nature? If they really need evidence of the good that our community can bring, they can refer to many examples of bikes, hikers and horses living in harmony all across the state. Why do we have to constantly bow down and hope they throw us a bone? I would prefer to see IMBA and JORBA dedicate their time and money to improving places we're allowed to ride. Not someplace that says "thanks guys, now get the hell out before we give you a ticket".
    Thanks RTM.

    Sure, its a good question actually, and one that is ever-present in my mind. Here's my thoughts on this:

    We're gaining allies and converts every day. The South Mountain Conservancy has been 100% hiker until recently. There are now 2 mountain bikers on the board. The president (a hiker) keeps a copy of the IMBA Trail Solutions book within reach at all times (he's now a believer). Another hiker on the board has been an advocate for a couple of years because of some local riders showing up for Trail Cleanup Days.

    The remaining folks are becoming more open minded to the concept. They are impressed with past efforts at parks throughout NJ and newsworthy success stories like Lewis Morris and Wissihickon (where closures were threatened, yet now they are model multi-use trail networks employing the IMBA Trail Solutions techniques). The IMBA presentation will focus on sustainable trails and why mountain bikers are not anethema but a value-adding resource.

    I trust these people when they say to my face they are taking an honest look at this concept (of being inclusive and advocating multi use sustainable trails). I don't think we're being used. Is it possible? Of course, but I don't believe its the case. They want to improve the park and casual dog walkers and hikers don't come out and maintain trails. Mountain bikers do... so they can adhere to the status quo or they can embrace a user group with a proven track record of making a park a fun place for all. This is undisputed fact.

    Also, let me make a subtle point clear: people that do not ride sometimes pop in here. Let's be careful about this topic and keep the message serious because its a serious topic that a lot of people are working very hard on... some will never be convinced and ammunition handily provided on message boards only spurs them to on to keep their closed minded views. (Note: this is a general point and not directed *at* RTM)

    Let's take a chance and make a difference in Essex County!

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,564
    Quote Originally Posted by stoked
    I was riding in Watchung last Sunday for the 1st time. It is a beautiful place. Forgot to mention I was on my road bike

    I think more choices we have better it is for us all.

    Mergs I will try to make this TM if I am not busy with work.
    OK, hope to see you! if you're running late, just ask for me... I'll get you in.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,564
    Quote Originally Posted by karateka
    just thinking out loud, i wonder what would happen if about 50 MTB'ers were to descend onto SMR to not just maintain trails, but to ride, all at once? Some would get ticketed but most would end up with a nice ride? Hypothetical.
    I know you're only being hypothetical, and I like a joke too, but anything along these lines would be quite unhelpful.

    These are the stereotypes we're trying to correct. This reinforces the image that we don't care about the park or what any other users think.

    Of course its untrue but that does not mean they won't think this way and use it to re-inforce their view to themselves or to others.

    Finally, just to re-iterate what I said in my reply to RTM, let's keep this topic serious. We need to diplomatic... now more than ever.

  21. #21
    RTM
    RTM is offline
    #1 Latex Salesman
    Reputation: RTM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,626
    mergs - glad to see you took my note the way it was intended. it wasn't meant to be disparaging, though some may have taken it that way. I do hope the event goes well and I'm glad to hear the tide is turning in our favor.

    While you're rubbing elbows with the IMBA would you mind suggesting they build something like this at Chimney Rock...

    http://www.imba.com/news/trail_news/..._1_santos.html
    "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of a low price is forgotten." - Benjamin Franklin

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mergs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3,564
    Quote Originally Posted by RTM
    mergs - glad to see you took my note the way it was intended. it wasn't meant to be disparaging, though some may have taken it that way. I do hope the event goes well and I'm glad to hear the tide is turning in our favor.

    While you're rubbing elbows with the IMBA would you mind suggesting they build something like this at Chimney Rock...

    http://www.imba.com/news/trail_news/..._1_santos.html
    cool. likewise RTM... glad you took mine the same way.

    on the Santos trail system. suggestion well taken. as a matter of fact technical trail features such as the ones at Santos are definitely on our minds... I can't get into any details whatsoever on it but we're approaching land managers about TTFs, specifically skills/challenge areas. WVP/Chimney Rock would be a pretty good place to do it too, central location and great park staff. thanks.

  23. #23
    lotto baby
    Reputation: clarkenstein's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    553
    Quote Originally Posted by mergs
    cool. likewise RTM... glad you took mine the same way.

    on the Santos trail system. suggestion well taken. as a matter of fact technical trail features such as the ones at Santos are definitely on our minds... I can't get into any details whatsoever on it but we're approaching land managers about TTFs, specifically skills/challenge areas. WVP/Chimney Rock would be a pretty good place to do it too, central location and great park staff. thanks.
    very cool! pretty exciting that something like this is being discussed.
    i spurt in the wind, and the wind drug it

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    4
    Jeff and the rest of the Jersey-philes,

    Thanks for getting the word out on the Trail Care Crew visit. IMBA and JORBA both hope that we can gain momentum on reopening great riding opportunities like South Mountain and Wachtung as well as developing and improving existing rides. In the end, it takes a HUGE grassroots movement to alter the course of the anti-mountain biking tides, which means everyone speaking with one unified and reasonable voice and the willingness to back up that voice with volunteer stewardship- be it trail maintenance, volunteer patrolling, helping JORBA with administrative tasks, leading rides, helping drive positive pr to mountain biking, and bringing newcomers into the sport. Everyone's got a talent and at least a little time to give back.

    As far as building technical riding areas like we've designed and constructed in Santos, FL, that opportunity is there because a local IMBA club, the Ocala Mountain Biking Association, had such a good relationship with the folks that managed the land that they were open to doing something pretty far outside the box. With the topography and geology you've got, especially in northern Jersey, I believe something pretty special could be created.

  25. #25
    Icebiker
    Reputation: Bugeye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    423

    I second Mergs...

    Not that Mergs’ points require further validation , but as someone who has worked with the Morris park system for 12 years in the pursuit of better trails/access, and who has been an active participant –along with Mergs, Don and others – in this most recent SoMo effort for the past few years, I second the need to treat this initiative with as much focus and support as you can muster. I, like many of you, used to ride SoMo before it was officially closed after many a heated public hearing. Like you, my hopes rose and faded with every rumor that someone was giving a shot to re-opening it again. This time around, though, is the real deal. Though it’s no sure thing, the dialogue that has been achieved in the last six months alone would have been unheard of 5 years ago. Let’s put our best foot forward to make this work for everyone , and let’s not let some obviously outdated perspectives (such as the signs in SoMo that erroneously attribute erosion to bikes ), get in the way of the longer term mission: sustainable trails in SoMo for sustainable uses.

    That said, and in the interests of full disclosure, I will not be at the TCC date this time around due to previously planned family vaca …which is a double bummer since the vaca doesn’t include riding.

    Best of luck with the SoMo event, folks. Mergs, I’ll check in with you on my return. BTW, the feedback from the Lew Mo tour we gave the SoMo folks was very positive.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •