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Thread: Trenchville

  1. #1
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    Trenchville

    Some idiot has decided that there are major water problems at Cottonwood and has "fixed" the "problem" with a lot of waterbars. They are ridiculous in number and location as a few are at high points on the trail. I don't know how someone could be so bored. Anyway...I spent my time yesterday filling in 20+ trenches rather than riding unfortunately. I am sure there are more, so please help. I picked up a nice digging tool at the dump.
    Last edited by Guy Cool; 05-15-2013 at 05:41 PM.

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    Re: Trenchville

    Where were these waterbars at. I hope you don't say three Mile Smile or Deadhorse! If so your really going to hate all the time YOUR GOING TO HAVE TO SPEND UN-DOING YOUR VANDALIZM!!!!!!

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    Hold up while I go make some popcorn for this one...


    All jokes aside I must say 3 mile smile is the best it's been in a long while
    I dig dirt!

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    I know ypu ment well but I'm sure those water bars had some functionality to them. On the other hand all of the loose rocks and gravel that we get out there does not. Maybe next time you feel like doing some trail maintenance you do a little sweeping/raking. I'd be happy to join you.

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    The ones I fixed yesterday were on Landmine. The ones I fixed today were on Little Daytona. Digging trenches in a trail where there are no water issues is vandalism and a horrible idea. Cottonwood is fine and fun as is, but getting worse with wussifacation; and now tons of random trenches in the trail? Trenches are effectively a speed bump and a major buzz kill. Someone is way too bored or needs to somehow justify their job and is clueless about the joys of mountain biking.
    I spend my summers as a professional trail builder at a bike park in Colorado. I am no novice to trail work.

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    Those water bars had no function and were speed bumps, and I do a lot of loose rock removal out there all by myself. It's not hard.

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    Re: Trenchville

    Well let's hope that they were not put there by Great Basin Institute( GBI) who is working for the BLM out there for the next little while. Because if they where your hurting a relationship that SNMBA has spent YEARS getting to where it is .
    And so if you would please not FIX ANYTHING ELSE til we know WHO is putting them in.....but feel free to rake the MILES of trail that still have LOOSE crap in the tread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Cool View Post
    The ones I fixed yesterday were on Landmine. The ones I fixed today were on Little Daytona. Digging trenches in a trail where there are no water issues is vandalism and a horrible idea. Cottonwood is fine and fun as is, but getting worse with wussifacation; and now tons of random trenches in the trail? Trenches are effectively a speed bump and a major buzz kill. Someone is way too bored or needs to somehow justify their job and is clueless about the joys of mountain biking.
    I spend my summers as a professional trail builder at a bike park in Colorado. I am no novice to trail work.
    If you want to do trail work, go back to Colorado and quit wussifying our trails. In case you didn't notice, on the rare occasion where it does rain here, it causes massive trail damage, and it will again thanks to the work of jackasses like yourself.

    Maybe you should stick to fire roads if a few water bars are too technical for you.

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    Hello, McFly...have you ridden this bs? How is filling in trenches similar to removing difficult obstacles trail wussification? There is no problem with rain on these trails. I can't believe anyone would do this let alone a mountain biker defending this trail destruction. How can you defend unnecessary speed bumps?
    Yes it is the GBI people as I stopped and talked to them today. How are they such good partners if they are hurting a great mountain biking experience? Seriously, do you like to go fast on a mountain bike? Otherwise go hiking or enjoy your couch.
    It is good to hear that the GBI trail @#@#@'s will be gone soon.

  10. #10
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    Remember when last summers monsoon storms pretty much washed away the trails?
    Water bars or any type of water diversion will greatly help the trails. They have been known to turn into rain gutters in years past.
    the - E - dog

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    Re: Trenchville

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Cool View Post
    Hello, McFly...have you ridden this bs? How is filling in trenches similar to removing difficult obstacles trail wussification? There is no problem with rain on these trails. I can't believe anyone would do this let alone a mountain biker defending this trail destruction. How can you defend unnecessary speed bumps?
    Yes it is the GBI people as I stopped and talked to them today.
    How is YOU changing something YOU don't like to suit YOUR WANT'S any different to wussifcation? IT'S NOT!!!!

    DO YOU UNDERSTAND YOUR ACTIONS EQUATE TO TELLING THE LAND MANAGER.....FVCK YOU, I DON'T RESPECT YOUR AUTHORITY TO MANANGE OUR NATIONAL CONSERVATION AREA.
    Oh but guess what.....he does have the authority to BAN US, ARREST YOU and make you the most hated person in the MTB community. Well really you took care of the last one all by yourself
    McFVCKING FLY!!!!

    Are you starting to understand the extent of your inability to ride over some " speed bumps " repercussion on the WHOLE MTB'ing community?




    Edit: theres only 37 speling grammur and punctation. And I dont care!!!

    Edit;edit: What E said too!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Cool View Post
    Hello, McFly...have you ridden this bs? How is filling in trenches similar to removing difficult obstacles trail wussification? There is no problem with rain on these trails. I can't believe anyone would do this let alone a mountain biker defending this trail destruction. How can you defend unnecessary speed bumps?
    Yes it is the GBI people as I stopped and talked to them today. How are they such good partners if they are hurting a great mountain biking experience? Seriously, do you like to go fast on a mountain bike? Otherwise go hiking or enjoy your couch.
    It is good to hear that the GBI trail @#@#@'s will be gone soon.
    Understand that you are performing illegal trail work, and if one of us catches you, you will be reported to the BLM.

    The only person ruining the experience is you, when those trails get washed away again this fall/winter, it will be the fault of your "helpfulness." We don't need that kind of help.

    I do like technical riding, that's why I rarely go to Cottonwood. Want a challenge, go to Bootleg or Cowboy...better yet, just go back to Colorado.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Cool View Post
    There is no problem with rain on these trails.
    Moron quote of the year winner right here. Step right up to collect your prize.

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    I thought little Daytona was closed down years ago....I must not know the right trail names.

  15. #15
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    I actually saw them is doing this, and unfortunately it is over kill and ruining a lot of good trail networks. However other areas that were addressed look great and will surely help when the fall rains come in again.
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  16. #16
    Young, Shawn Young
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    Man, I wish they would just leave the cottonwood area alone. Yes, we have some hard rainfall every year and it does some damage but honestly the trails in general have passed the test of time. Rain gutters on Little Daytona??? Really???
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

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  17. #17
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    Where to even start....?

    Lots of Testi going around here
    Take a chill pill or even better go for a ride damn it.

    IMHO If you haven't ridden around CW in the last 5 days or you know something more than what has been expressed here you should refrain from giving your opinion on what you think is being done.
    I was there, I rode it and I saw who did it. So I like to contribute to this debacle.
    Unless I am being shortsighted and this is a work in progress that will lead to them filling the trenches with PVC or big rocks to then place dirt on top and compact it to bring the smoothness back to the trails this is totally unacceptable for "US" mountain bikers and "the powers that be" who supposedly represent our interest as a group should be RASING HELL.
    But don't take my word for it go check it out for yourself and then come back to let us know what you think.

    Quote Originally Posted by rob1208lv View Post
    I actually saw them is doing this, and unfortunately it is over kill and ruining a lot of good trail networks. However other areas that were addressed look great and will surely help when the fall rains come in again.
    An actual eye witness

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmon View Post
    Man, I wish they would just leave the cottonwood area alone. Yes, we have some hard rainfall every year and it does some damage but honestly the trails in general have passed the test of time. Rain gutters on Little Daytona??? Really???
    YES really Shawn and in places that make no sense whatsoever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Cool View Post
    Those water bars had no function and were speed bumps, and I do a lot of loose rock removal out there all by myself. It's not hard.
    He's absolutely right most of those water bars have no function because they are in places where the water wont run and cause damage. IE on top of a hill...????

    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    If you want to do trail work, go back to Colorado and quit wussifying our trails. In case you didn't notice, on the rare occasion where it does rain here, it causes massive trail damage, and it will again thanks to the work of jackasses like yourself.
    Maybe you should stick to fire roads if a few water bars are too technical for you.
    NO>>NO>>>NO>> If he wants to do trail work we should thank him for wanting to help and improve YOUR/OUR trail system embrace him and bring him up to speed in how to use the proper channels to do so.
    It has nothing to do with the technicality of the trail it has more to do with how a beautiful fast smooth trail (Not many like that around) is being destroyed in the name of "progress"

    Quote Originally Posted by knoob View Post
    Well let's hope that they were not put there by Great Basin Institute( GBI) who is working for the BLM out there for the next little while. Because if they where your hurting a relationship that SNMBA has spent YEARS getting to where it is .
    And so if you would please not FIX ANYTHING ELSE til we know WHO is putting them in.....but feel free to rake the MILES of trail that still have LOOSE crap in the tread.
    Yes they were put in by GBI, really more like a bunch of kids probably doing a summer internship hating life out there and with out a freaking idea of what is "flow" whether is rolling flow or water flow.


    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Understand that you are performing illegal trail work, and if one of us catches you, you will be reported to the BLM.
    The only person ruining the experience is you, when those trails get washed away again this fall/winter, it will be the fault of your "helpfulness." We don't need that kind of help.
    I do like technical riding, that's why I rarely go to Cottonwood. Want a challenge, go to Bootleg or Cowboy...better yet, just go back to Colorado.
    "Illegal trail work" you mean like the other 98% of the trail work done in or around the valley?
    Really is that what you will do if you find someone working on the trails? And can you please expand on "WE"
    He's not the only one ruining the experience and as far as I am concerned the GBI already ruined the trails and they didn't even need to wait for the rain.
    Yes they are more technical trails but there's no other place like CW with fast smooth single track trails where you can go down at full speed for 10+ miles if you want.

    "Happy Trails"
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  18. #18
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    I knew this would get good, it's a very polarizing topic...
    I dig dirt!

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    I second Camaleon! That response is one of the best posts I have read on MTBR.

    I can't comment on the "trail work" at CW, as I prefer to ride Cowboy trails, and haven't been out to CW, but it is sad to hear that what was supposed to be a move in a positive direction, is back firing.

  20. #20
    Young, Shawn Young
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    I have to say that after riding quite a few of the trails out at Cottonwood tonight that Great Basin Institute should stay up in Reno and worry about their own trails. What a horrible job of pretending to know what the heck they are doing! Little Daytona, which has remained unchanged for nearly 15 years had these damn trenches all over it! I dont know if you could call it vandalism as these people were actually invited to come out here and work on the trails but it should be a crime what they have done. Please go back from where you came! If you want to do some good maybe come out after a rainstorm and see where the real problems are! Better yet, bring a rake and help do some trail maintenance rather than ruining perfectly good trails.
    Thank you Guy for doing what you could to undo the carnage from these idiots. If you have an opinion maybe hold it until you have ridden the trails.
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

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  21. #21
    Young, Shawn Young
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    Here is their FB page. Let them know what you think, I did! https://www.facebook.com/GreatBasinInstitute?fref=ts
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

    Do I need a pass to ride this trail?

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    Funny how the cool guys who slammed me hard have had nothing to say since others have gotten on here sharing my view on this.
    If we each fill in 10 or so trenches per ride we can get things styling, smooth and fast again soon.

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    I hope I'm not one of the cool guys as I was not trying to slam you...sorry if it came off that way. Which trail exactly is little Daytona? I'm sure I have ridden it but I'm may be mixed up on my trail names. I'd really like to go and check out what has been done.

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    I'm all for trail maintenance and improvements, but we need to work with the land managers. I'd hate to see Cottonwood turn into another Coyote Springs.

    And your rain comment is still boneheaded.

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    I can see how a guy who has been riding for a whole three years would so incredibley aware of trail sustainability. I stand corrected. Cottwood is in major danger of being washed away anytime. I will get hold of GBI and learn how to dig trenches in spots that despite having never had a water problem are nevertheless in serious danger. I will then get busy digging them since GBI couldn't cover the whole trail system.

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    I haven't been out to CW to see all of the "work" that has been done, but if it's as bad as described (I have no reason to doubt that), we need to work to change things. I did just get off the phone with the guy from GBI that is over the southern Nevada work. He's aware of the concerns, but they were doing work that the BLM told them to do. Granted, they should have recommended improvements in the work, but they are just contractors for the BLM. He is frustrated that the BLM didn't get MTBrs more involved (he told them to) as we are the main trail users out there. He WILL BE attending the next SNMBA meeting to answer questions and take input. He's a good guy and is really on our side. We need to get involved with both the GBI and the BLM to make our trails better. He did say that there will be no more trail work out there until this fall. One thing he won't tolerate is us harassing his workers which he said happened at least once. We need to get organized and be ready to work with them, not against them this fall on the trails or we'll get whatever the BLM wants done to the trails. If you're really concerned, be at the next SNMBA meeting and let's get organized. We have a great group of MTBrs in the valley, but we're mostly a bunch of lone wolves, we need to get together as a group and help. There are some in our group that have incredible trail building expertise. Let's share that.

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    I rode out there with my wife last weekend. I have to admit, it was a random and ametuerish job. Most trenches made very little sense. However, I don't know that I would have taken it upon myself to just start filling them in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Cool View Post
    Funny how the cool guys who slammed me hard have had nothing to say since others have gotten on here sharing my view on this.
    If we each fill in 10 or so trenches per ride we can get things styling, smooth and fast again soon.
    Can you please clarify(list) who the cool kids are???
    TIA
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaFred View Post
    Can you please clarify(list) who the cool kids are???
    TIA
    Anyone who wheelies a fat bike on the beach HAS to be cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaFred View Post
    Can you please clarify(list) who the cool kids are???
    TIA
    He's just creating a fallacy to make himself feel better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AntagonistHero View Post
    I'm all for trail maintenance and improvements, but we need to work with the land managers. I'd hate to see Cottonwood turn into another Coyote Springs.

    And your rain comment is still boneheaded.
    Exactly, the BLM is more than willing to work with us, but making your own decisions about what to do and where to do it is a good way to lose trail access for all of us.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Exactly, the BLM is more than willing to work with us, but making your own decisions about what to do and where to do it is a good way to lose trail access for all of us.
    Thats how all these trenches were built. If BLM wanted to work with us they would have gotten some feedback from people that spend the most time out there. We already have some great people for trail maintenance and I'm sure they would have loved to give feedback.
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

    Do I need a pass to ride this trail?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmon View Post
    Thats how all these trenches were built. If BLM wanted to work with us they would have gotten some feedback from people that spend the most time out there. We already have some great people for trail maintenance and I'm sure they would have loved to give feedback.
    They say that they are willing to work with us, yet they don't take the time to reach out to us before planning and doing things. We need to also be more proactive in developing good comminucations with the BLM so we can have a say in what is done to the trails. I'd like to see a regularly scheduled meeting, maybe quarterly, set up with the BLM land managers for the entire valley and SNMBA leadership. I don't know if that's happening or not. I'm as guilty as anyone else. I have not been to an SNMBA meeting as I always seem to have a conflict. I need to get my fat butt to the meetings and contribute. If we're not having regular conversations with the BLM, we have no say in what happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Cool View Post
    Funny how the cool guys who slammed me hard have had nothing to say since others have gotten on here sharing my view on this.
    You know how to win an argument with a idiot .............

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    Let them speak for themselves. Philosophy 101. Author; Descartes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Cool View Post
    Let them speak for themselves. Philosophy 101. Author; Descartes.
    That's kinda.... I don't know... "ironic" coming from a guy who's username is, guy COOL...


    another observation... don't most of you ride like 5 & 6" bikes??? F***in ride over that **** at full speed kid.. it ain't no different then any other trail obstacle.
    I dig dirt!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaFred View Post


    That's kinda.... I don't know... "ironic" coming from a guy who's username is, guy COOL...


    another observation... don't most of you ride like 5 & 6" bikes??? F***in ride over that **** at full speed kid.. it ain't no different then any other trail obstacle.
    Ok i understand that.( i ride a HT by the way) Im pretty sure that if we had a hard rainfall tonight some of those little trenches on daytona would turn into a ditch. I just dont understand why cottonwood always has to be the place where people mess with the trails. I love it for the smooth, flowy place that it is. I dont think anyone would be complaining if they did a proper job of things but clearly they did not.
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

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  38. #38
    Young, Shawn Young
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    I dont think any of us have any real quibbles with each other. We all want the same thing right? Minimum involvement from the BLM, no involvement from GBI, and more involvement from local riders when we have trail/rain issues.
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

    Do I need a pass to ride this trail?

  39. #39
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    Trenchville

    Cottonwood has some sort of "Magic" to it and thankfully less than a week later it has almost healed itself via the trail gnomes that had take upon them selfs to fix it.
    So to all the "ILEGAL TRAIL FIXING" gnomes out there, keep it up and hats off.
    By the time all involved parties seat to TALK about it it will just be a bad memory thanks to the wheels on the ground.
    "If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem"
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    Cottonwood has some sort of "Magic" to it and thankfully less than a week later it has almost healed itself via the trail gnomes that had take upon them selfs to fix it.
    So to all the "ILEGAL TRAIL FIXING" gnomes out there, keep it up and hats off.
    By the time all involved parties seat to TALK about it it will just be a bad memory thanks to the wheels on the ground.
    "If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem"
    the funniest part of all this is...there are several trails in CW that are in bad need of true trail work on their drainage issues and not a one of these spots was even touched by this "trail crew"(I use that term loosely).
    I dig dirt!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redmon View Post
    Ok i understand that.( i ride a HT by the way)
    So do I...
    I dig dirt!

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    Loving the magic!!! Thanks to all the gnomes out there. This is fabulous news and I am now looking forward to the weekend A LOT more! And too the cool guys; a loud Nelson Muntz "HA HA"

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    It's FUN to be a magician, you guys(cool) should try it sometime, plus the p***y just throws itself at ya when they find out your the one that made their day better
    I dig dirt!

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    I risked being arrested and filled in another dozen or so today. I ran into friends who said there are still plenty of trenches out there. Let's go gnomes!!! By the way cool guys, I had people (yes, plural) shaking my hand today in thanks for my efforts. Also, since you are sooo worried about this, the two or three trenches that actually made sense, remain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Cool View Post
    The ones I fixed yesterday were on Landmine. The ones I fixed today were on Little Daytona. Digging trenches in a trail where there are no water issues is vandalism and a horrible idea. Cottonwood is fine and fun as is, but getting worse with wussifacation; and now tons of random trenches in the trail? Trenches are effectively a speed bump and a major buzz kill. Someone is way too bored or needs to somehow justify their job and is clueless about the joys of mountain biking.
    I spend my summers as a professional trail builder at a bike park in Colorado. I am no novice to trail work.
    I am planning on checking this out on Memorial day. How many of the trenches/waterbars are left out there? If I go out will it be obvious? Can you extrapolate on your trail building experience? Specifically, what trails have you worked on in Colorado and with what outfit?

  46. #46
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    Saturdays ride

    We went out Saturday night and didn't really see any trenches other than a few along that straight trail (called cottonwood blvd on Strava) that runs from that red hill to Katies lot. There are quite a few along that route but they all seemed to correspond with natural flow lines across the trail and none of them seemed too big or speed reducing. But we were only on the Late night outer loop.

    This is the only trail map I know of. Is there a better one out there with the correct names? When looking at Strava it seems there are 2-3 names for some of the same trails.
    Trenchville-cottonwoodtrail..jpg
    Trenchville-saturdays-ride.jpg

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    Thanks. I have been out on these trails many times, but it seems there are multiple names for the same portion of trail. I had a hard time finding where "Little Daytona" is, I think I figured it out.

  48. #48
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    Trenches in the trail are pretty obvious. Feel free to help out.

  49. #49
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    I saw the trenches along little Daytona with ease, they are obvious and plentiful. It seems that they could have been a bit more subtle and no one would've even noticed. The best trail work often goes unnoticed. That section has a rolling grade, so for a mountain bike trail minimal drainage structures would be needed and appreciated. However these trails are mutiple use, so if they are being built as such they would require larger drainages. This is the second time out at Cottonwood that I have seen a group on horseback, and only the first time seeing a trail runner. I am not certain what direction GBI has recieved from the BLM.

  50. #50
    Young, Shawn Young
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattstragalus View Post
    I saw the trenches along little Daytona with ease, they are obvious and plentiful. It seems that they could have been a bit more subtle and no one would've even noticed. The best trail work often goes unnoticed. That section has a rolling grade, so for a mountain bike trail minimal drainage structures would be needed and appreciated. However these trails are mutiple use, so if they are being built as such they would require larger drainages. This is the second time out at Cottonwood that I have seen a group on horseback, and only the first time seeing a trail runner. I am not certain what direction GBI has recieved from the BLM.
    Thats why locals should be involved in the decision making process. With the exception of a few small puddles after a monsoon rain Little Daytona has never needed help with drainage. Are there areas that could use some proper drainage techniques? Probably. Little Daytona isnt one of them and GBI certainly doesnt know proper techniques.
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

    Do I need a pass to ride this trail?

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