Results 1 to 91 of 91
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    584

    Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    I can't believe how many formerly "technical" sections of Cottonwood are gone now; sections where I loved testing my self and my bike. The most recent was a rock outcrop on Landmine about 1/2 mile past the dump if you go counter clockwise. I don't understand why someone would go to all that trouble for a section that was not too tough, and not even close to dangerous. I loved clearing the up, especially on my single speed, and jumping over it going the other way. How much longer will we have BFR? Thankfully we have people there destroying all of the cheater lines that go around it. The first few "technical" sections that were removed were disapointing, but what we have now versus five years ago and beyond is ridiculous. Major bummer!!

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    64
    Unfortunately, this is something we probably will have to deal with all the time. They do it as "trail maintenance". It's very different moving loose rock or other debris compared to digging up buried rocks to make the trail smoother. If they want smooth, they should stick to an asphalt trail, but there is no reasoning with them. sigh

  3. #3
    desert dweller
    Reputation: mattbikeboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,644
    Problem with moving those rocks aside from the annoyance is that the rocks inhibit erosion events. Now the water can run smoothly down the trail. Boneheads trail helpers.

    MBB

  4. #4
    The Hutch
    Reputation: rob1208lv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,276
    Who ever is doing this needs to stop right now. SNMBA do you guys know who is doing this? can you put it out there to stop?
    follow me
    on FB @hutchsbicyclegarage
    on instagram @hutchsbicyclegarage
    and @robbhutch
    on twitter
    @RobertEHutch

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    333
    Could someone post pics of the areas that have been affected? I rode landmine loop the other day but didn't notice where the trail modifications had been done (landmine loop is not my usual route).

  6. #6
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791
    Landmine loop is a very good example if you are coming back to Blue Diamond Clockwise there were some rocks that required some ability to clear and now that whole section is like a freaking freeway all flat and smooth that job took sometime and tools and it sucks.
    So we just have to keep going higher and higher to stay away from the smooth trails. Have you ride The Hurl lately?
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    584
    Someone put a huge rock right in the middle of the trail very close to the spot I mentioned above. I think it was an attempt to make that section technical again, but it was a horrible job. This rock must have taken a couple of guys a lot of effort to get there. It is now off the trail.

  8. #8
    Professional Slacker
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    2,467
    Word is that this is happening at Cowboy now and it needs to stop, wherever it's being done.

    Everything out there is ridable to someone, if you can't clean it, it's not the trail, it's you.

  9. #9
    JKA
    JKA is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JKA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    199
    Some people will only be happy when all the trails are graded and paved. If you don't like a trail because it's too difficult, ride another trail. There are plenty of smooth trails at Cottonwood that anyone can ride. We can rant all we want here, but it won't stop the problem. Short of posting guards and firing a couple of warning shots, I don't know what else would work.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: knoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    621

    Re: Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    These are warnig shots! Have you heard of "the scarecrow effect"?

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    79
    The sad thing is these asshats really think they're providing a public service.

  12. #12
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791

    Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    IMHO Just get out there and build more trails with more technical difficulties to counteract.
    Problem solved.
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  13. #13
    Big B's Trails
    Reputation: ImaFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,724
    Anyone and I mean anyone that has any desire to put in work on a trail... Please, for the love of God .... Do it on Bonnie n Clyde!!! That trail is going to be gone soon......if we don't use it(add to it )!!!
    Last edited by ImaFred; 04-08-2013 at 06:25 PM.
    I dig dirt!

  14. #14
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaFred View Post
    Anyone and I mean anyone that has any desire to put in work on a trail... Please, for the love of God .... Do it on Bonnie n Clyde!!! That trail is going to be gone soon......if we don't use it!!!
    BTW Right now could be the best time of the year to be ridding it or working on it.
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nelsonccc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaFred View Post
    Anyone and I mean anyone that has any desire to put in work on a trail... Please, for the love of God .... Do it on Bonnie n Clyde!!! That trail is going to be gone soon......if we don't use it(add to it )!!!
    If I could ever figure out where the damn thing is I'd be game to ride/improve it.

  16. #16
    Big B's Trails
    Reputation: ImaFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,724
    It's there if you look....... really, really hard!!!
    I dig dirt!

  17. #17
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791

    Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    I can provide you some gpx files so that you can follow it.
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: knoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    621

    Re: Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    Give me a link or date so i can find it on strava.

  19. #19
    Big B's Trails
    Reputation: ImaFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    I can provide you some gpx files so that you can follow it.
    Carlos,
    Ill take a copy of your gpx files for it. I'd like to see if I remembered everything, correctly.
    B
    I dig dirt!

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nelsonccc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    273

    Re: Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    I'll ride it this weekend if you can get me a file.
    Thx.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    Beefcake. BEEFCAKE.

  21. #21
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791

    Bonnie & Clyde

    Go ride it guys with this weather it's stupid not to, I wish I could join you.
    Once you are at the end of the loop before you start to come back you can just take the fire road all the way to Goodsprings have lunch and some beers at the bar and then ride back that is one of my favorite epic rides.
    P.D. One of the most appealing features of this trail, at least to me is the fact that you start it with a3 mile fast downhill run as a warm up and then it ends with another 3 mile downhill back to the parking lot. I attached the .gpx file and the link is the epic ride to Goodsprings.
    Here is also a link to the full Bonnie & Clyde with Goodsprings. Bonnie & Clyde to Goodsprings - Cottonwood Valley, Las Vegas, NV by carmaleon at Garmin Connect - Details
    Attached Files Attached Files
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nelsonccc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    Go ride it guys with this weather it's stupid not to, I wish I could join you.
    Once you are at the end of the loop before you start to come back you can just take the fire road all the way to Goodsprings have lunch and some beers at the bar and then ride back that is one of my favorite epic rides.
    P.D. One of the most appealing features of this trail, at least to me is the fact that you start it with a3 mile fast downhill run as a warm up and then it ends with another 3 mile downhill back to the parking lot. I attached the .gpx file and the link is the epic ride to Goodsprings.
    Here is also a link to the full Bonnie & Clyde with Goodsprings. Bonnie & Clyde to Goodsprings - Cottonwood Valley, Las Vegas, NV by carmaleon at Garmin Connect - Details
    Thanks. I'll be sure to check it out.

  23. #23
    The Hutch
    Reputation: rob1208lv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,276
    I'll be happy to do a group ride on Bonnie and springs next week some time.. PM if your interested and I'll put a ride together on the LVU
    follow me
    on FB @hutchsbicyclegarage
    on instagram @hutchsbicyclegarage
    and @robbhutch
    on twitter
    @RobertEHutch

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cairntipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    10
    Bootleg has been getting wussified as well. This week West Leg has been the latest target. Big rocks have been removed and thrown down the hill. I like West Leg, there are parts I can't always clean. That doesn't mean that the trail should be brought down to my ability level, or the level of whoever is responsible. Does anyone have any info on who is doing this? My blood boils now, every time I ride this trail. I would LOVE to come up on this taking place. Bootleg is a city park and this is illegal, just like the signs say. Please be on the lookout if you ride Bootleg, let's try and prevent any more permanent damage to the trails in to which our dear departed friend Brent Thompson poured his heart!

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    126
    Agreed. It's crazy how all these trails are getting smoothed out by peeps. It really is ruining the trail systems. We need to put some game cams up and catch these idiots! They are obviously doing this when no one is around because they haven't been caught and beaten to death!!!

  26. #26
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791

    Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    ****ING HEY!
    Now someone made a ride around BFR.
    I trough some rocks back to block it.
    Next time you are around please help and do the same.
    Might even through in some cacti to discourage people to go that route.
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nelsonccc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    273

    Re: Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    ****ING HEY!
    Now someone made a ride around BFR.
    I trough some rocks back to block it.
    Next time you are around please help and do the same.
    Might even through in some cacti to discourage people to go that route.
    What's BFR?

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    Beefcake. BEEFCAKE.

  28. #28
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791
    Big ****ing Rock
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  29. #29
    Young, Shawn Young
    Reputation: Redmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,101
    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    ****ING HEY!
    Now someone made a ride around BFR.
    I trough some rocks back to block it.
    Next time you are around please help and do the same.
    Might even through in some cacti to discourage people to go that route.
    They have done this before. The good news is most of the newbs stay off the other new trail systems. I wish they never paved that damn lot!
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

    Do I need a pass to ride this trail?

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nelsonccc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    273

    Re: Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    Big ****ing Rock
    The one between Katie's lot and late night? I hope not. I remember the first time I cleared it going in and coming out !

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
    Beefcake. BEEFCAKE.

  31. #31
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791

    Help!

    Please help me understand.... WHY? Is the "Great Basin" = "National Park Service" Cutting feet wide trenches perpendicular to the trails in order to act as drainage?
    Do you know if later on they are going to do something like put PVC or big rocks and then compact it again?
    And if so When?
    They have cut the same trenches in the "Three Mile Smile"`and they did nothing afterwards so now the trenches act like speed bumps on a perfect fast nice smooth trail.
    So not only they are not getting fix in a timely manner but I rode CW on Saturday and it's ridiculous how close to each other this trenches are I had to slow down to keep bunny hoping them because there's one every 1 yard or so.
    Are they converting CW in to a CX track or something?
    Is this part of a really SLOW undergoing GOVERNMENT project?

    I don't get it
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    584
    The trenches are unfortunately the "fix" to a non-existant water problem, and we will be left with hundreds of speed bumps out there.

  33. #33
    desert dweller
    Reputation: mattbikeboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,644
    The new trenches are a retarded attempt by an idiot to solve a non-problem! Stop, you are hurting the trails and not helping. I don't know what pathetic thought got in your head that digging trenches in the trail was a smart thing! I was really pissed off when I saw all the trenches on Landmine last week. For the love of God --- Stop!!!!!!! These trail do occasionally wash out a bit when there is a heavy, heavy rain event. But washouts on Landmine are extremely rare, even when the rest of the trails have had some issues. Landmine will wash out now that rocks have been removed and some moron cut irrigation canals through the trail.

  34. #34
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791

    Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    FYI The Moron was "Great Basin Institute" they came all the way from Reno" hired by the BLM and paid by your TAX dollars to work on our trails. Here is their FB page. Let them know what you think, I did! https://www.facebook.com/GreatBasinInstitute?fref=ts
    Last edited by Camaleon; 05-22-2013 at 07:57 AM.
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  35. #35
    desert dweller
    Reputation: mattbikeboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,644
    Yes I found it last night and left a message on their Facebook page too. Which it looks like they deleted today! I guess we should all start leaving messages that they should learn proper trail maintenance techniques before they turn their helpers loose on the trail. I bet they are the ones that restored the Anthem Trails as well.

  36. #36
    desert dweller
    Reputation: mattbikeboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,644
    And they blocked me!!!!!!

    Let's all send some letters & emails and phone calls to them asking them to either learn proper trail maintenance techniques or stay off our trails.

    Jerry Keir
    Executive Director
    775.674.5495
    jkeir@thegreatbasininstitute.org

    Gwendolyn Bourne
    Associate Director
    775.674.5497
    gbourne@thegreatbasininstitute.org

    Terry Christopher
    Associate Director, Southern Nevada
    702.433.2600
    tchristopher@thegreatbasininstitute.org

    Mark Spencer
    BLM Red Rock/Sloan Field Office Field Manager
    (702) 515-5351
    m1spence@blm.gov

  37. #37
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791

    Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    :-)
    I do believe they are also the ones who fixed Anthem just like you mentioned.
    Since they have blocked you I suggest you keep spreading the voice all over the Internet and other mountain bike sites and make sure to show up to the next SNMBA meeting where supposedly the GBI manager will be to answer questions and address our concerns.
    "seeing is believing"
    Last edited by Camaleon; 05-23-2013 at 10:31 AM.
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  38. #38
    The Hutch
    Reputation: rob1208lv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,276
    I just Spread the word to everyone I know and asked them to email/FB message them ..
    follow me
    on FB @hutchsbicyclegarage
    on instagram @hutchsbicyclegarage
    and @robbhutch
    on twitter
    @RobertEHutch

  39. #39
    Young, Shawn Young
    Reputation: Redmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,101
    Yea, mine were deleted as well. I guess the truth hurts.
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

    Do I need a pass to ride this trail?

  40. #40
    desert dweller
    Reputation: mattbikeboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,644
    It's sad, they are obviously excited about the work they do. They just don't have any training on effective trail maintenance. It would only take some lessons and common sense and they would be a benefit to the local trails.

    I don't blame them for the Anthem Closures -- that is 100% BLM and their inability to serve the local user base. If it's not their trail, it is unauthorized and will be reclaimed. I've worked enough with them to know the routine -- land managers are uninspired yahoos with little incentive to serve the local constituencies. They just fall back on the rules and regulations and don't care. We used to have Rec Planners that would try to understand the mountain bike communities needs and work with us to address those needs. Heck, we even had them coming out on their own time to help with our sanctioned and smart trail maintenance days. They didn't just turn a bunch of interns loose on the trails with a pulaski. We built the switchbacks into Red Canyon from the top of Badger with a bunch of management trainees-- but they had guidance from our group of experienced and trained trail builders.

    mbb

  41. #41
    Young, Shawn Young
    Reputation: Redmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,101
    Whats really irritating is that instead of responding like an honest organization would they just choose to delete our comments and not bother to reply. How hard what it be to say "wow, we are really sorry at how things turned out and look forward to working with the locals and community leaders". Bunch of jokers.
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

    Do I need a pass to ride this trail?

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    584
    Why are all of the cool/fool/tool guys are still silent on this? Hello, McFly...

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    FYI The Moron was "Great Basin Institute" they came all the way from Reno" hired by the BLM and paid by your TAX dollars to work on our trails. Here is their FB page. Let them know what you think, I did! https://www.facebook.com/GreatBasinInstitute?fref=ts
    When I was reading this thread, I was thinking "wow, that totally has GBI's signature" on the description of trail work. Sorry to hear they have infected your trails in the south too. It's a constant battle up here in Reno/Tahoe to keep up on fixing some of their sub-standard work. Several land managers here will no longer use their trail crews. I'm pretty sure GBI is aware that they do crappy work, so complaining to them probably won't do much. Why they are still using 30 year old trail techniques is beyond me. I'd recommend letting the land manager(s) know. Most land managers have a decent idea of trail standards. They're the ones doing the hiring. Maybe offer to form a volunteer group to organize and do the work. Many land managers hire them because its a labor source.
    Want more trails? Better trails? Join TAMBA!
    Tahoe Area Mountain Biking Association
    www.mountainbiketahoe.org

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    41
    Also, does anyone have any before and after pics of the sanitizing or even just after pics of their waterbars? That would be very helpful. I think it may be time to fight back statewide and see if we can't get trail standards tied into their trail grants. You can e-mail me at president [at] mountainbiketahoe [dot] org. Thanks.
    Want more trails? Better trails? Join TAMBA!
    Tahoe Area Mountain Biking Association
    www.mountainbiketahoe.org

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BigHit-Maniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    713
    Cottonwood has become so damn smoothed out, that it might as well be a paved trail.

    BOOOOOORRRRIIINNNGGGG.
    You in Oklahoma City? If yes, come ride with us.

  46. #46
    \m/ \m/
    Reputation: Blade-Runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    368
    Somebody saw today that some jerk offs have made a bypass around BFR but that somebody put up a wall to block off that bypass.
    13' Lynskey M290
    13' Venge Pro Force
    13' Crux Elite
    12' Co-Motion Speedster Tandem

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    167
    Time to bring out the cyclocross bike

    Cottonwood has been changed forever and for the worse. When I started mountain biking that is the first place I would go. I don't visit as much as I used to due to the fact that it is just too easy now and not enough challenges. I spend more time on BBT and Cowboy as they are much more challenging.

    It's too bad and I am hoping they don't make their way over to 3 mile smile.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Motorider228's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    198
    I'm really surprised that no one on here has ever caught any of the guys doing this stuff. I don't get the mind set of trail sanitizers. There are obstacles I can't clear out there, but I try like hell every time!

  49. #49
    \m/ \m/
    Reputation: Blade-Runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    368
    I'm guessing its the guys out there riding with flat pedals.
    13' Lynskey M290
    13' Venge Pro Force
    13' Crux Elite
    12' Co-Motion Speedster Tandem

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: knoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    621

    Re: Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    HEY.........I ride flat pedals!!!

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Motorider228's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    198
    ......me too.......

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    584
    A few years ago I saw Clark County Parks Dept. digging out rocks coming out of the wash right after Little Viagra. That was one of the first wussifaction jobs I saw out there. That is right next to a road though, and they could drive right there. I doubt that they are hiking in to dig out rocks. I am guessing it is riders with pack tools. I am seeing cross bikes out there a lot more now, so it could be them.

  53. #53
    \m/ \m/
    Reputation: Blade-Runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    368
    I doubt it's anyone on a cross bike because most of them have MTBs too. My guess its the newbies and rent a bike crew.
    13' Lynskey M290
    13' Venge Pro Force
    13' Crux Elite
    12' Co-Motion Speedster Tandem

  54. #54
    Young, Shawn Young
    Reputation: Redmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,101
    Quote Originally Posted by Blade-Runner View Post
    I doubt it's anyone on a cross bike because most of them have MTBs too. My guess its the newbies and rent a bike crew.
    I agree, I think GC is trolling a bit here. It could just be newbs on crossbikes!
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

    Do I need a pass to ride this trail?

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    584
    No trolling. Just a mere observation that I have been seeing them lately, when I did not see them at all for the first six or seven years I was here. The rocks being gone definitely make the trails more conducive to those bikes.

  56. #56
    Big B's Trails
    Reputation: ImaFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,724
    Speaking of trail wussification.....
    who's the douche that sanitized the lower ledges just above the "herradura ledge" on dos amigos at bbt?!? I mean really you can't ride up ledges that are curb high?!? Or are they too scaaaary going down em on your 9" travel full suspension hummer errrr I mean bike?
    I'm mean fukit why not just haul a few bags of cement out there and really do it right if you going to pu$$out that bad?!?
    Next time I do this... the trails going to be ug for so long it's gonna be a myth... hmmm ...maybe we'll call it mavericks
    I dig dirt!

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    333
    I would like to know where too mvericks is...I like your work...haha

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    29
    How come no one ever sees anyone messing with the trail? I mean given the amount of time all of us are out there it would seem likely we would eventually run into someone in the act. Can anyone address this anomaly?

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Motorider228's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    198
    I rarely see anyone, anywhere. I start my rides at sunrise and most guys aren't out that early.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    29
    I ride at peak hours and I see people out, mostly other mountain bikers but occasionally some equestrians and hikers. I am not certain if either of these user groups sees removing rocks out of the the trail as a good favor they are doing for everyone, but I have a hard time believing it is anyone that rides a bike. Is there anyway we can politely connect with any of these groups and tell them that, we as riders enjoy the trail the way it is?

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    29
    Also can anyone think of a slogan that we can pitch to the general public. I think "trail wussification" although quite accurately describing what we mean, may fall harshly on people's ears. Something we could potentially put on a sign, print out and put at a trailhead.

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation: knoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    621

    Re: Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    How about " Trail Destruction" or "ILLEGAL modifications" those are the only p/c ones that come to mind

  63. #63
    007
    007 is offline
    b a n n e d
    Reputation: 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    6,189
    Quote Originally Posted by mattstragalus View Post
    Also can anyone think of a slogan that we can pitch to the general public. I think "trail wussification" although quite accurately describing what we mean, may fall harshly on people's ears. Something we could potentially put on a sign, print out and put at a trailhead.
    I'd call it "Trail Preservation" or "Shared Preservation."

    And a public campaign, something like this could go a long way as it could appeal to multiple user groups. One of the best places to start something like this is at the point of purchase. Get the bike shops on board to provide a "responsible riding" seminar, and if the user participates they get X% off on their bike purchase. Use these seminars to promote trail courtesy, trail preservation, and good, clean riding. It's a win for the community as it spreads the word and a win for the shop because they're being pro-active about good stewardship and its a win for the consumer as they get a small discount for listening to some relevant info.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation: knoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    621

    Re: Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    Quote Originally Posted by mattstragalus View Post
    I have a hard time believing it is anyone that rides a bike.
    It's absolutely a rider. The rocks removed are irrelevant to the other user groups.

    I have a pretty good idea who has done a few of the embedded rocks in the middle of the trail. And doubt we can convince him to not do any more.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    29
    If its is a rider then shame on them, there is no excuse for that other than ignorance. How low is your self esteem that you need to degrade a trail to feel good about clearing an obstacle. Okay rant over.

    I like "trail preservation" how about "don't dumb down the trail"

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation: knoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    621

    Re: Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    I really prefer " KEEP YOUR FVCKN' HANDS OFF"

    Just sayin

  67. #67
    Big B's Trails
    Reputation: ImaFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,724
    Kenny I'm sure I can help convince whoever him is... I can be very persuasive if need be
    PM me your thoughts on who our friend is...
    I dig dirt!

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Motorider228's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    198
    I see new little jumps pop up on trails every now and then, how do you guys feel about those? Personally I like it. I could see how that could be considered bad though.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation: knoob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    621

    Re: Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    The only one I've ever had a problem with was the one on Red Valley, on a blind corner, right in the middle of the trail. Bad placment and it kick ya if you weren't expecting it.

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    29
    Jumps don't really bother me, unless they are really ugly or phoned in. The ones built out of pallets up at telephone look pretty bad. Might as well build it out of a bag of trash. I guess though that in the interest of clarity and having a trail that appeals to everyone, the general rule would be leave the trail alone.

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    584
    I like the building jumps plan. I could be easily appeased with some air. I will start looking for good air spots. Although our lack of transitional landing zones will be pretty limiting.

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Motorider228's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    198
    I would like to go out to the end of the new trails on BBT and carve some lips on the side of that service road. There are some fun little hills that would be more fun with some jumps on them. Something to make the small trip back to the trail more fun.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    333
    Not a bad idea.... or maybe new single track running parallel to the road heading back toward dos amigos. Either way new stuff is good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorider228 View Post
    I would like to go out to the end of the new trails on BBT and carve some lips on the side of that service road. There are some fun little hills that would be more fun with some jumps on them. Something to make the small trip back to the trail more fun.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4

  74. #74
    Big B's Trails
    Reputation: ImaFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,724
    Serious ?, while I agree that a return trail or loop back to dos would be awesome, why would you ride the road?... if it bugs you just ride back on the ST to dos.
    As far as jumps go... I'm a mixed bag! They're fun... if done right. Problem is their very rarely done "right" so they usually are sketchy or a waste of time and effort, example would be the kicker rock jump right before the Aydenator/Slick Willy split. Too steep of a lip and its built in the flats?!? IMO that's a very poorly thought out jump and is an eyesore. Typically I'm a fan of the more natural hits with downhill landings.
    I dig dirt!

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    29
    On the issue of jumps; I think most riders will choose to hit a jump now and again, but what about those that are of lower skill level, ride a ridgid bike or just enjoy to keep their wheels on the ground. Imagine that you have your favorite trail and someone builds a jump in the middle of it. Its the other side of the coin of trail wussification. I think the idea behind jumps should be, build them to the side of the trail so you don't change the overall level of the trail. That and do it right.

  76. #76
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaFred View Post
    Serious ?, while I agree that a return trail or loop back to dos would be awesome, why would you ride the road?... if it bugs you just ride back on the ST to dos.
    Specially when BBT is build with so much attention to detail that the trails are blast either way or direction you choose.
    If you have been riding it long enough you know it's an always changing and evolving trail so for now I will suggest to ride the new section in and back out just like we use to ride in and out to the first short loop back in the day. I am sure that in the grand scheme of things and as the weather gets better the BBT will continue to grow and eventually that will be part of a greater loop.
    I bet you a $100
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    584
    A roller jump is easy to build. If you want air you can do it, and if you don't you can roll it super easy.

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaFred View Post
    Kenny I'm sure I can help convince whoever him is... I can be very persuasive if need be
    PM me your thoughts on who our friend is...
    In my former life I learned how to be very pursuasive. I don't even have to speak the same language to get "cooperation". I don't need names because I'm not going to visit someone at their home, but if I see them making modifications to the trails, we'll have a little "conversation" and I think that will stop it...for that individual anyway.

    I really like the idea of getting bike community involvement in teaching "leave no trace" trail riding like 007 suggested. Some signage at the trailheads that states that it is illegal to modify the trails might help some. If someone is doing it honestly trying to help with trail improvements, it might stop them. I fear that it won't have much of an effect on whoever is doing it without some additional pursuasion.

  79. #79
    Young, Shawn Young
    Reputation: Redmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,101
    Quote Originally Posted by mattstragalus View Post
    Also can anyone think of a slogan that we can pitch to the general public. I think "trail wussification" although quite accurately describing what we mean, may fall harshly on people's ears. Something we could potentially put on a sign, print out and put at a trailhead.
    A few I was thinking of:
    Leave it like you found it
    Ride it like you found it
    Ride it or walk it>>don't change it.

    Anyone have some design skill for a logo? Maybe a rider rolling BFR?
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

    Do I need a pass to ride this trail?

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by Redmon View Post
    A few I was thinking of:
    Leave it like you found it
    Ride it like you found it
    Ride it or walk it>>don't change it.

    Anyone have some design skill for a logo? Maybe a rider rolling BFR?
    Can we add "or else!" on the end of those? Actually, I like that idea and those messages. How about a picure of someone digging up a rock with a red circle around it and the red line through it as well.

  81. #81
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791
    Quote Originally Posted by Bone Saw View Post
    In my former life I learned how to be very pursuasive. I don't even have to speak the same language to get "cooperation". I don't need names because I'm not going to visit someone at their home, but if I see them making modifications to the trails, we'll have a little "conversation" and I think that will stop it...for that individual anyway.

    I really like the idea of getting bike community involvement in teaching "leave no trace" trail riding like 007 suggested. Some signage at the trailheads that states that it is illegal to modify the trails might help some. If someone is doing it honestly trying to help with trail improvements, it might stop them. I fear that it won't have much of an effect on whoever is doing it without some additional pursuasion.
    Most of the trails people are taking about here are "ILLEGAL" or non sanctioned anyway so there goes the legality of it all and when you guys use the therm ILLEGAL I want to know what are you proposing, to have a TRAIL POLICE? So the next thing we know "THE TRAIL POLICE" will be writing you tickets for "SPEEDING" or going the "WRONG" way or riding with no shirt and no helmet.
    How about "WE" get the BLM to allow us to work for "FREE" and bring our crews to build new trails in more hard to get locations so that the beginners that like smooth flat trails won't even think about going because it's to hard to ride there.
    Like it has been said before that parking lot was a demise for the Cottonwood trail system but it's a desert out there with plenty of mountains and empty land. Use it or loose it.
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    21

    Serious trail wussification at Cottonwood

    How about hiding a game camera in the areas being changed?


    Sent from my iPhone via satellite from outer frickin' space!

  83. #83
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791
    How about you guys spend your time and energy building more trails instead of becoming enforcers of some fictitious legality.
    What are you planning on doing once you have a video of some beginners sanitizing your trails? Beat them up? Turning them in to the authorities? ??

    Lets start doing something about the last bunch of dumb asses "(GBI) that came down hired by the BLM paid for with YOUR TAX DOLLARS and just blatantly ignored all of OUR request to at least acknowledge that they totally screwed up then the SNMBA requested a metting with both the BLM and the GBI to sit down an get to an understanding and get some common ground on what WE the trails users know and want and hear why they did what they did.
    You know what happened? NOTHING the meeting never even came to fruition because no one really cares and in the end the GNOMES ended up fixing everything faster than the GBI or the BLM could.

    FYI you want me to tell you who is responsible for sanitizing most of the trails around the country.... IMBA just so that all kind of riders can ride them. (including your 3 years old daughter)
    I am totally against dumbing down the trails but if you are going to put any amount of energy and effort just so that you can find the culprit and then reprimand or threat or beat up.
    Why not put that same amount of energy into building more miles of new fresh tacky rocky single track and then let everyone worry and try to figure out who did it who build all these great bad ass trails?
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  84. #84
    Big B's Trails
    Reputation: ImaFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    How about you guys spend your time and energy building more trails instead of becoming enforcers of some fictitious legality.
    What are you planning on doing once you have a video of some beginners sanitizing your trails? Beat them up? Turning them in to the authorities? ??

    Lets start doing something about the last bunch of dumb asses "(GBI) that came down hired by the BLM paid for with YOUR TAX DOLLARS and just blatantly ignored all of OUR request to at least acknowledge that they totally screwed up then the SNMBA requested a metting with both the BLM and the GBI to sit down an get to an understanding and get some common ground on what WE the trails users know and want and hear why they did what they did.
    You know what happened? NOTHING the meeting never even came to fruition because no one really cares and in the end the GNOMES ended up fixing everything faster than the GBI or the BLM could.

    FYI you want me to tell you who is responsible for sanitizing most of the trails around the country.... IMBA just so that all kind of riders can ride them. (including your 3 years old daughter)
    I am totally against dumbing down the trails but if you are going to put any amount of energy and effort just so that you can find the culprit and then reprimand or threat or beat up.
    Why not put that same amount of energy into building more miles of new fresh tacky rocky single track and then let everyone worry and try to figure out who did it who build all these great bad ass trails?
    Hmmm....interesting and valid points and ones that I'll consider or already have considered.
    However(and I know you & I are generally on the same side) , your quickly dismissing the blood sweat and tears that sometimes goes into these projects... emotions and protectiveness can run high...extremely high! While I won't pretend that I didn't think this would happen I never thought it would be this bad. In the last year I have seen more "dumbing down" on our trail systems then in all the previous 20+ years I have been riding here. It's sad!!!
    I dig dirt!

  85. #85
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791
    Didn't mean to sound like I am dismissing all the hard work that goes in to the trails I just don't want to have a TRAIL POLICE in place.
    I go ride to forget about it all and having to worry about someone watching and enforcing some set of make up laws IMHO will be worst than having to fix trails.
    If I see someone altering the trails which I had you can count on the fact that I will talk with them like I have done in the past.
    Happy Trails B
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    I just don't want to have a TRAIL POLICE in place.
    B
    I agree no one wants a police state developing on the trails. Thats why we need education to reach the users. Talking to people is a good start, but we need to take it a step further and mass communicate. A sign at the trailhead is a good start, an education program is even better but will take more effort. Who is a graphic design guru amongst us that can come up with a clear poster we can then put at trail heads and bike shops. I can make something and post it on this thread for you all to see, but I can't guarantee it will look any good.

  87. #87
    007
    007 is offline
    b a n n e d
    Reputation: 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    6,189
    Quote Originally Posted by mattstragalus View Post
    I agree no one wants a police state developing on the trails. Thats why we need education to reach the users. Talking to people is a good start, but we need to take it a step further and mass communicate. A sign at the trailhead is a good start, an education program is even better but will take more effort. Who is a graphic design guru amongst us that can come up with a clear poster we can then put at trail heads and bike shops. I can make something and post it on this thread for you all to see, but I can't guarantee it will look any good.
    The trick with that is getting the BLM (or whoever manages the land) to approve its posting. Otherwise, we'll put it up and it will get taken down.

    Definitely gotta include the "right-of-way triangle" on it.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  88. #88
    \m/ \m/
    Reputation: Blade-Runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    368
    Quote Originally Posted by mattstragalus View Post
    I agree no one wants a police state developing on the trails. Thats why we need education to reach the users. Talking to people is a good start, but we need to take it a step further and mass communicate. A sign at the trailhead is a good start, an education program is even better but will take more effort. Who is a graphic design guru amongst us that can come up with a clear poster we can then put at trail heads and bike shops. I can make something and post it on this thread for you all to see, but I can't guarantee it will look any good.
    I agree! And of course stop, repair and block off routes made to go around technicals.
    13' Lynskey M290
    13' Venge Pro Force
    13' Crux Elite
    12' Co-Motion Speedster Tandem

  89. #89
    Viva la Vida!
    Reputation: Camaleon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    791

    Guilty As Charged

    Well your prayers have been answered and mother nature took good care of the three mile smile it's now a more technical trail full of gravel and loose rock gardens with narrow single track the red valley on the way to Wilsons thank also have some nice obstacles on both sides of the road the dead horse side and the sign side so now its more difficult and challenging.
    On the other hand I meet "Mr Public" you know the owner of the "Public Land" and not only is he really cool but also very persuasive so he ended up talking me in to dumbing down some parts of the three mile smile mainly we filled some trenches with rocks and dirt we didn't have any tools so we did as much as we could using or feet.
    Good thing the trail police wasn't up there to arrest us or beat us up.
    We do not stop playing because we grow old;
    We grow old because we stop playing

  90. #90
    Big B's Trails
    Reputation: ImaFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,724
    Quote Originally Posted by Bone Saw View Post

    ...
    I really like the idea of getting bike community involvement in teaching "leave no trace" trail riding like 007 suggested. Some signage at the trailheads that states that it is illegal to modify the trails might help some. If someone is doing it honestly trying to help with trail improvements, it might stop them. I fear that it won't have much of an effect on whoever is doing it without some additional pursuasion.
    Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs
    ****in' up the scenery, breakin' my mind
    Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign
    I dig dirt!

  91. #91
    Young, Shawn Young
    Reputation: Redmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,101
    Quote Originally Posted by ImaFred View Post
    Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs
    ****in' up the scenery, breakin' my mind
    Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign
    Lol sing what you will but who can forget "Dont bust the Crust"??? Where oh where have we seen that sign??
    "Im just going to explore a little bit..."

    Dont make me be the bad guy...

    Do I need a pass to ride this trail?

Similar Threads

  1. little cottonwood canyon downhill trail
    By kasadude in forum Utah
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-04-2014, 10:36 AM
  2. What's good in Cottonwood?
    By Eazy_E in forum Arizona
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-01-2012, 09:49 PM
  3. Badger pass-Cottonwood trail AM 7-12-11
    By nelsonccc in forum Nevada
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 07-14-2011, 12:18 AM
  4. Best Cottonwood Loop
    By nelsonccc in forum Nevada
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 07-05-2011, 04:40 PM
  5. Little Cottonwood Creek (Quarry Trail)
    By NorwegianRepresentative in forum Utah
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-02-2011, 01:58 PM

Members who have read this thread: 1

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •