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  1. #1
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    Gravity Logic at LV Ski & Snowboard Resort

    Sounds like there was some feasibility assessment going down last weekend about building a potential bike park on the mountain...any other info out there?

  2. #2
    Big B's Trails
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    Sunday I saw peeps that could be involved with something like that
    I dig dirt!

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    When I talked with people at the resort they told me that it would be at least 3 to 4 years before they would be able to put trails in due to environmental assessments done by the forest service. That was about 2 weeks before gravity logic came to town.....

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    JKA
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    3-4 years sounds about right. I have a friend who works with the Forest Service reviewing and writing environmental studies back east, and if the 3-4 years time frame is accurate, then they started 2-5 years ago. It normally takes 5-10 years for something of that magnitude to get approved by the feds. I sure hope it gets approved quickly. I'm not getting any younger.

  5. #5
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    Gravity Logic at LV Ski & Snowboard Resort

    Sounds like a long time for bike trails...the solar site I'm managing the same process on has been 3 years from twinkle in the eye stage to start of construction. Although who knows, some things are higher priority for the Feds.

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    I was just up there this past weekend playing some disc golf and according to the Lift attendants they are going through with planning of the the trail system even though the ground is not approved as of yet. So it sounds like its gonna happen for sure, just may be a while. Hopefully its fast-tracked because its ski resort.

  7. #7
    JKA
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    I really hope it does happen, but just because they are doing planning doesn't mean it will happen for sure. It typically takes years to do the environmental impact studies and then re-do them many times to please the feds. Most ski resorts don't own any of the land that they use. It is just leased to them on a long term lease from the forest service. LV ski resort has been around for a long time so I don't know the details of land ownership up there, but even if they own the land (which I doubt), they will want to use much more land than just the ski resort land for trails. All of this has to be approved by the US Forest Service since it's "their" land. I always thought that public land was owned by the public and we should have more of a say, but I guess not. There will probably have to be public hearings and comment periods for us all to weigh in on whether we think it's a good idea. I'm sure the sierra club and others will try to "protect the land" from us renegades that just want to destroy nature. Once it hits the newspaper and the sierra club and others get involved in fighting it, then we'll know it's closer to becoming a reality. It would be good for all of us to contact our senators and congressmen NOW to let them know that we want this and try to get them on our side before the opposition starts fighting it and throwing money at them to kill it. They will probably have no idea that it's even planned, but now is a good time to educate them.

  8. #8
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    The forest service and the BLM suck A$$. We need to invite them to leave the State of Nevada.

    Look at the level of development of Lee Canyon and then consider the resorts in CO, UT, CA, OR, WA, NM, and even northern NV. We are getting screwed here.

    The BLM and USFS have no legal rights to be here and own the land in NV. They should have stopped managing it years ago.

  9. #9
    JKA
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    I agree 100%, but just saying so won't make it happen unfortunately. They are the ones we have to deal with on all public land issues. If they won't play nice with us, they will listen to our elected officials. If we can convince them to be on our side, then we have a chance to get things developed like in other areas.

  10. #10
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    Nevada kicked them out in 1980 but let them back in. Time to do it for good.

    Nevada has been getting screwed royally by the feds and Harry Reid for a very long time now. I am going to Deer Valley on Saturday to ride DH and am amazed that I can't do it at Lee. The people getting in the way of our ability to use "our" public lands is obscene at this point. Take a minute and look at Skidmap.com in the Park City area...I could rant about this for hours on end.

  11. #11
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    Seems like a lot of assumptions and specious statements being made...is there really a concerted fed effort to limit biking opportunities in the Spring Mountains? Funny that Deer Valley was mentioned, besides fact that the trails there aren't really DH...it's all private property, which is a critical point to be made. My experience with other ski resorts thinking of building bike parks has led me to think that public land management agencies are often not the obstacle. Liability and the cost of additional insurance can be the big...and for DH biking the really big...inhibitor. I have no idea if feds are the limiting factor here, and maybe I'm full of shite in general too, but in any case my intention wasn't to kick off an anti-federal agency rant.

    And Park City is one of the sweetest places anywhere to ride...a lot of the park development is on private land, but it's also an excellent example of how the community, feds, private entities, and organizations like IMBA can come together to develop a real world class biking destination. This doesn't start with the contentious kinds of things offered earlier here.

  12. #12
    Big B's Trails
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor Lord of Thunder View Post
    Seems like a lot of assumptions and specious statements being made...is there really a concerted fed effort to limit biking opportunities in the Spring Mountains.....
    I would say to a degree there is.... the problem we really face here is...we live in a desert in a city of a coupa million peeps, with only one lil mtn range to recreate in for all of us. Hence there's only so much available land to allocate to each of the user groups, you guys are all seeing it from your side(MTB eyes) of the fence.(each and every user group does) the Feds have to "try" and see it from all points(groups).
    I dig dirt!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaFred View Post
    there's only so much available land to allocate to each of the user groups, you guys are all seeing it from your side(MTB eyes) of the fence.(each and every user group does) the Feds have to "try" and see it from all points(groups).
    Exactly. The Fed land management agencies deal with multiple use, plain and simple...it's not about "stealing" someone's land, it's more precisely about trying to find a way to accommodate a multitude of user groups.

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    Why is there so much private land in Park City and none in the mountains in southern NV? Are we not getting screwed simply because the Federal Government changed their approach to land management from distributing it out to the states and its residents to locking it up and then trying to make big bucks on what it does part with? Anyone have any idea how much money the BLM has made of land sales in LV? What happens to those dollars?

    I would stop thinking that the BLM or the FS is ever going to be our friends. We need to put pressure on them so that not working with us becomes untenable for the federal employees sitting at their desks using google maps and strava to try and find "illegal" trails.

    I think you miss the point THOR when you take the BLM and the FS for what they say they are in NV. Do some research into the matter and discover why NV is so largely dominated in land ownership by the feds. NV has very little say in what happens within its state and we are all getting jobbed royally because of it.

  15. #15
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    BUMP.

    Fine day for a hike leads to BLM fines at Red Rock | Las Vegas Review-Journal
    Lake Mead property owners forced out until shutdown ends - www.ktnv.com

    There is something really wrong with a federal government who does this kind of stuff for the sake of being petty. We in NV are getting the royal shaft from DC and Harry is the one giving it to us. Educate yourselves about NV and why there is so much federal land here and then look at what they do with it...unbelievable.

  16. #16
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    On the other hand, have you thought of what a sh1tshow access to private lands would be? I'll tell you how it would be...there would be none. Like Texas. Which is the crappiest state for access to any lands in the entire country. Hate The the FS and BLM, but they do protect the land from ourselves.
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  17. #17
    Big B's Trails
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    Rideit, love your sig quote ^^^
    I dig dirt!

  18. #18
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    Thanks! I had shirts made up with that on it back when we were 'creating' trails in Teton Valley early on...and damn did we eat a lot of burgers.
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  19. #19
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    Rideit. I don't disagree about the need for public lands and that they need to be managed in the west especially but I do contest the federal government being the ones to do it. The State of Nevada should be the ones to manage the land.

    The FS and BLM are not us. They are not controlled here in Nevada, looking out for Nevada's interests. Their motivations are not in line with ours and we cannot elect politicians who will manage them in the way Nevadans think best. This is precisely why we don't have more trails out here...why Gravity Logic at LV Ski & Snowboard Resort is not happening. The sad truth is that NV, and particularly LV was a late bloomer and so we are now seeing the effects of an obstructionist mentality from Washington. We have a descent ski resort and mountain range 30 minutes from downtown LV and there is one cross country MTB trail and a few renegade downhill trails. The terrain and the community could and would support so much more but the FS/BLM doesn't want it and blame it on a butterfly that may or may not have ever existed in the region. BTW, it was just put on the endangered species list and so you can kiss Gravity Logic goodbye forever.

    Educate yourselves about NV and why there is so much federal land around and then look at how Harry Reid screwed NV with SNPLMA. We can do better than this.

  20. #20
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    Species Profile for Mount Charleston blue Butterfly (Plebejus shasta charlestonensis)

    I was very sad to read the above post and hear that the butterfly is now officially considered endangered and not extinct. Stupid bug.

  21. #21
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    bcall8...you hater.

    The real problem is that no one has really seen one up there. There are 19 species that are barely distinguishable and no one can find the one in question and so it becomes endangered. At least that is what the LV Ski people believe but in reality if it comes out only for 2 weeks out of the year it is almost automatically going to get "endangered" status. I studied environmental engineering and made my emphasis in natural systems and then went to law school and from what I gather, this process of granting endangered status is a largely political one and in this case it is pretty clear that some enviros got this little guy on the list simply because he is shy...or doesn't exist in the region.

    We are fighting a battle that we are not equipped to win unless we understand what we are up against. Does Utah not have any blue butterflies in its mountains? What the hell makes it OK for them to build but no us?

    Mount Charleston blue butterfly declared endangered species | Las Vegas Review-Journal

    Because of this butterfly, the ski resort cannot expand adding new lifts, runs, and ponds for snowmaking. Worse than that, they cannot build trails and downhill runs that would be accessed by the lifts.

    Really stupid if you ask me... The FS is not our friend and they are working against our interests. We are Nevada...this is our state and we should be able to dictate the use of our public lands.

  22. #22
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    I really don't see any basis in the article for such knee-jerk reactions by states' rights proponents. Unless I read a different article there was nothing in there about restrictions on the LV Ski/Snowboard Resort. I realize these types of reactions are based solely on general distrust of the federal agencies...obviously entities like the CBD have an extreme agenda but I don't see any hard evidence that land managers are not working to accommodate all sides. I would argue that the concept of states' rights is just as extreme an agenda as CBD or other enviro groups out there have...and management is not often done at the extremes...it's more of a give and take, win some and lose some experience.

    I suppose only time will tell.

  23. #23
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    I am curious as to how you think it extreme that NV manage NV land. Is it because we are too stupid to know what is good for us? Did any of the 13 original states have any federal ownership? Explain further please.

    88% ownership of the State of NV by the federal government seems extreme to me. Closing down Lake Mead seems extreme to me...ticketing hikers at Red Rock...kicking old people out of their homes...na, that's all good. A days work I guess.

    I have met personally with the management at the LV resort and their inability to develop the MTB portion is because of the butterfly. The bike park will likely die because it will be too expensive to "prove" that the endangered butterfly will not be harmed by bikers.

    But at least we win some and lose some. The win has to be that we get to keep this land manager who recently landed a helicopter in the middle of the desert and dragged two hooligans off for cutting MTB trails...awesome.

    Thor...please answer the question as to why NV is 88% federal and no other state comes close. It may take some research but the answer is out there. It affects all of us.

  24. #24
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    As a side note, I haven't said anything about states' rights rather I am just explaining what Gravity Logic is up against. If you would like to debate states' rights and more specifically the Equal Footing Doctrine of the US Constitution then we can do that but I don't want to derail your thread.

  25. #25
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    Well, judging by what a sh1thole Vegas and Henderson are, Nevadans seemingly can't be trusted to make their own 'open space' decisions. The proof is kind of in the pudding, wouldn't you agree?
    States are too easily tempted to sell/lease/privatize 'public' lands, this has been proven over and over again. Not usually he best stewards.
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

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