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  1. #551
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    Rode it for the first time Saturday. Kept hearing how great it was. I like it as a diversion from Cottonwood but was a little disappointed in how much it snakes back on itself. There are several places where you are going one way and your buddy ahead of you by 100 yards in coming right back at you. Didn't really have that 'out there' away from it all feeling.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I'll take the great trail that someone else has put in any day. Just wish it was a bit more 'stretched out'. So anyways.....

    I was looking at google earth this morning and there looks to be more heading west from the start. Not sure if it's being built and off limits or if it's completed and just not showing up on the June 2012 imagery. I'd love to help complete it and or try my hand at adding a portion. Not sure what the protocol is on that.

    The image shows the normal trail, as i understand it, in purple. The new, looks to be anyways, in pink. And the yellow is showing what a possible larger expansion to the west would look like. I'd like to go out and hike thru this area and maybe make some GPS notes on possibilities. Then map it out and start adding....

    Thought?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bears Best MTB Trail-bbt.jpg  


  2. #552
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    The existing system snakes back on itself so much because the space is very limited: the current trail does not touch any BLM-owned land. If you extend the trail, you will be on BLM land and likely be in hot-water with the BLM. This is why BBT is considered finished as is.

  3. #553
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    I've got three letters for you nelsonccc - BLM. There is a good reason the trails don't head further west...

  4. #554
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    Wheel-Addict beat me to it.

    What doesn't show up in the sat images is the fence that the PINK is behind.
    That's the BLM's boundry fence.

    The Pink is actually old ST that was abandoned when the fence went up.

    You could probably ride that side on the old moto tracks but I WOULD NOT disturb any resource,ie dirt, that the BLM would want to charge you to RESTORE!

    So yea BBT is built out,But when the Southwest Ridge Park moves along we should get more area to legally build new trail.

    Hope that helps.

  5. #555
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    Certainly not trying to ruffle feathers. But from the attached map it would seem that the real issue isn't BLM but the dashed red line that indicates the Red Rock Conservation area. However my understanding is that Cottonwood was kind of just being built up and then finally adopted by the BLM and Red Rock. The entire Cottonwood system is essentially on BLM and Redrock as well.

    From what I can tell the BBT is already on BLM/govt land. The attached images show the extent of private property and BLM land at the BBT. In fact the only place I would say not to build trail is the howard hughes owned land shown in BLM2. BLM3 shows that the parcel in magenta is all BLM land already. BLM4 shows the updated extent of the redrock conservation area.

    Like I said I'm just trying to understand the logic of not adding anymore trail. If the argument is that adding trail to the west puts it on BLM land then it's too late. The whole thing is already on BLM land. If anything I would say the trail needs to grow south to become even more connected to what will eventually be a bigger park (the green in BLM4) and that parking at the gate or anywhere along the private property will eventually get us in trouble more than anything else. When I go back tonight to ride it again I'll be parking at the Mesa park as recommended earlier in the thread.

    Truly I just want to see the best possible trail out there and I'm willing to help, even if that means adding to it myself.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bears Best MTB Trail-blm1.jpg  

    Bears Best MTB Trail-blm4.jpg  

    Bears Best MTB Trail-blm2.jpg  

    Bears Best MTB Trail-blm3-large-small-.jpg  


  6. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by knoob View Post
    Wheel-Addict beat me to it.

    What doesn't show up in the sat images is the fence that the PINK is behind.
    That's the BLM's boundry fence.

    The Pink is actually old ST that was abandoned when the fence went up.

    You could probably ride that side on the old moto tracks but I WOULD NOT disturb any resource,ie dirt, that the BLM would want to charge you to RESTORE!

    So yea BBT is built out,But when the Southwest Ridge Park moves along we should get more area to legally build new trail.

    Hope that helps.
    Yeah, I saw the fence, but the fence as far as i can is the red rock boundary and not the BLM boundary since the GIS data is showing the whole BBT on BLM but not red rock conservation land. Which is good cause there are portions of the BBT that are on pvt property and probably the most at risk. So if the BLM land is open to trail (which they must be since the BBT is already there) then what is the issue of adding more BBT trail to BLM land as long as we avoid red rock area?

  7. #557
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    If you goto the county's site snd look at a parcrel map BBT is entirely on private property.

  8. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by knoob View Post
    If you goto the county's site snd look at a parcrel map BBT is entirely on private property.
    I've been using the CCBD GIS mapper to gather my data. In my experience it's usually pretty dead on regarding property lines, zoning, and ownership.

    If you compare the two attached images you'll see the yellow parcel line running north and south at the end of the development. Pretty mucheverything to the left of the houses is Parcel 16422 and owned by the BLM/Govt. Everything to the right, as far as the BBT is concerned, is private property (parcel 16423). This is also confirmed by the image posted in my previous post that shows the larger view of property ownership in the area with a pretty much straight line north/south as the boundary between private and govt.

    So it looks like the first 3.9 miles headed west out of the development is on BLM and then everything east of there is private. It's possible that there is a Clark county flood control easement on the BLM land but that's not really regarded as private either and would most definitely not extend out of the drainage's. I think the fence line is actually the Red Rock Conservation limits and not a delineation between private and govt land. If you look closely at the red rock map boundary you can see the jogs at the BBT, in particular the rectangle that sticks into the BBT. Which is most certainly not private property. I've marked up the attached image to show this.

    Again, I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind limiting the trail system at its current layout.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Bears Best MTB Trail-google-earth.jpg  

    Bears Best MTB Trail-parcel-map.jpg  

    Bears Best MTB Trail-blm4.jpg  

    Bears Best MTB Trail-red-rock.jpg  

    Attached Files Attached Files

  9. #559
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    I would suggest not going into RR NCA, which is the other side of the fence, it will not be a pleasant experience.
    That's all I have to say about it.

  10. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by knoob View Post
    I would suggest not going into RR NCA, which is the other side of the fence, it will not be a pleasant experience.
    That's all I have to say about it.
    Thanks and I definitely agree. I've heard all sorts of stories about the Hitler-esque nature of the RR NCA. I've dealt with them a few times regarding architectural projects and they are a bit over the top.

    When I'm out there tonight I'll pay more attention to the fence line to get an idea of the potential limitations of the Red Rock line vs the BBT.

  11. #561
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    I went and checked this out today.

    Unfortunately I thought the long-haul up the paved trail was just too annoying for me....call me lazy. I want to park in the dirt, ride a trail, and go home. I also did not like being so close to peoples homes, I felt like I was invading their privacy by staring right into their backyard.

  12. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebR View Post
    I went and checked this out today.

    Unfortunately I thought the long-haul up the paved trail was just too annoying for me....call me lazy. I want to park in the dirt, ride a trail, and go home. I also did not like being so close to peoples homes, I felt like I was invading their privacy by staring right into their backyard.
    The long haul is just over a mile....on pavement....not that long. But you could always ride the ridge (dirt) back to the water basin. Or you can start at Mesa Park and get to the trail from the backside. Once on the trail you are not close to any homes.....of people.

  13. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcall8 View Post
    The long haul is just over a mile....on pavement....not that long. But you could always ride the ridge (dirt) back to the water basin. Or you can start at Mesa Park and get to the trail from the backside. Once on the trail you are not close to any homes.....of people.
    I'll try it again some time. I'm still new and the hills were just too much for me at this point. I was pretty tired just going up all of that pavement lol.

  14. #564
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    Went out again last night and it's a lot different at night that is for sure. There was no one else out there and you can't really tell that you're doing so much doubling back in the dark. Really enjoyed myself. Saw three foxes. Kind of creepy to see those glowing orbs floating above the ground.

  15. #565
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    Nelsonccc... Are you member of SNMBA? Enthusiastic trail riders, stewards & builders are always welcome. We'e got some great projects we're working on. Come to REI / Henderson tonight and introduce yourself. Or join us on the 19th to ride Coyote Springs. Or come to our upcoming 'trail care' class and workshop at Red Rock.

  16. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluejudad View Post
    Nelsonccc... Are you member of SNMBA? Enthusiastic trail riders, stewards & builders are always welcome. We'e got some great projects we're working on. Come to REI / Henderson tonight and introduce yourself. Or join us on the 19th to ride Coyote Springs. Or come to our upcoming 'trail care' class and workshop at Red Rock.
    I'm currently not, didn't really know anything about till a few weeks ago when Dave? came up and talked to us at the Late Night lot. Since then I've been following on facebook and almost went on the Coyote Springs ride (would have if it hadn't been on Sunday). Might go on the next one.

    Not sure how to join and/or what the benefits would be or how my funds would be used locally. Not opposed at all and I think it's a good idea. Just want to learn a bit more first. The henderson REI is just up the street from the house but we're going riding again tonight so we'll see.

  17. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by nelsonccc View Post
    I'm currently not, didn't really know anything about till a few weeks ago when Dave? came up and talked to us at the Late Night lot. Since then I've been following on facebook and almost went on the Coyote Springs ride (would have if it hadn't been on Sunday). Might go on the next one.

    Not sure how to join and/or what the benefits would be or how my funds would be used locally. Not opposed at all and I think it's a good idea. Just want to learn a bit more first. The henderson REI is just up the street from the house but we're going riding again tonight so we'll see.
    Most importantly... you can participate in most of our events without being a member. The upcoming ride on the 19th (see FB site) is open to everybody.

    Membership is only $30 (Choose Membership | International Mountain Bicycling Association). For the community it provides necessary monies for trail maintenance, trail building (working closely with Clark County on South Rim project), lobbying(locally and thru IMBA), educational programs (see our Subaru/IMBA Trail Care Event coming up) and organized rides(Ex: Coyote Springs).

    Individually... benefits include membership with 30K riders across the country, MTB subscription (Mountain Flyer, Swtichback etc), MTB discounts, travel discounts, specialized insurance, coupons and promotions (Subaru) and a partnership with the BLM (who see us as a responsible voice of the MTB community).

    Either way... we welcome your participation and hope to see you out on the trails.

  18. #568
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    THANK YOU!!!!!!

    That is all


    PS-don't forget to check for spiders

  19. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by nelsonccc View Post
    Rode it for the first time Saturday. Kept hearing how great it was. I like it as a diversion from Cottonwood but was a little disappointed in how much it snakes back on itself. There are several places where you are going one way and your buddy ahead of you by 100 yards in coming right back at you. Didn't really have that 'out there' away from it all feeling.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. I'll take the great trail that someone else has put in any day. Just wish it was a bit more 'stretched out'. So anyways.....

    I was looking at google earth this morning and there looks to be more heading west from the start. Not sure if it's being built and off limits or if it's completed and just not showing up on the June 2012 imagery. I'd love to help complete it and or try my hand at adding a portion. Not sure what the protocol is on that.

    The image shows the normal trail, as i understand it, in purple. The new, looks to be anyways, in pink. And the yellow is showing what a possible larger expansion to the west would look like. I'd like to go out and hike thru this area and maybe make some GPS notes on possibilities. Then map it out and start adding....

    Thought?
    The reason the trail is built the way it is, is because of the limiting nature of the boundaries around it(homes from the east and north, rrnc to the west, federal land to the south). YOU try making a trail that has substantial mileage in minimal acreage, and see what u come up with for a design!
    The fact that you sometimes get to see your buddy even if you've been dropped by him, is actually nice if your truly riding with your friend and not by your self pretending to be with your friends.
    I personally would stay on this side of the fence, even when your just out riding your bike, but again just my humble opinion.
    I dig dirt!

  20. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaFred View Post
    The reason the trail is built the way it is, is because of the limiting nature of the boundaries around it(homes from the east and north, rrnc to the west, federal land to the south). YOU try making a trail that has substantial mileage in minimal acreage, and see what u come up with for a design!
    The fact that you sometimes get to see your buddy even if you've been dropped by him, is actually nice if your truly riding with your friend and not by your self pretending to be with your friends.
    I personally would stay on this side of the fence, even when your just out riding your bike, but again just my humble opinion.
    The GNOMES that made BBT deserve "RESPECT and $$$" So far in the last 6 years they are the ones that have laid the most amount of single track miles for all to ride and they have done it in a professional manner with great knowledge of trail building (The trail had no damage whatsoever with the last rains that destroyed CW) because they are built RIGHT they constructed bridges that support 500 lbs and for all you new to the trail they did it FAST!

    NO ONE else has done so much for my personal mountain biking enjoyment and pleasure than THEM!
    So hat's off to them
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  21. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaFred View Post
    The reason the trail is built the way it is, is because of the limiting nature of the boundaries around it(homes from the east and north, rrnc to the west, federal land to the south). YOU try making a trail that has substantial mileage in minimal acreage, and see what u come up with for a design!
    The fact that you sometimes get to see your buddy even if you've been dropped by him, is actually nice if your truly riding with your friend and not by your self pretending to be with your friends.
    I personally would stay on this side of the fence, even when your just out riding your bike, but again just my humble opinion.
    I clearly said that I appreciated the effort put in by others, very much so. I was simply asking for clarification on why it was like that and if there was a possibility to expand and add mileage. Which I would be happy to help with. It appears from my research that there are still a ton of possibilities out there.

    I respect and value the time and money put in by the trail builders. Period. Just wondering if there's more trail to be had. That's all.

  22. #572
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    Just came in to say THANK YOU to the guys that have worked and made Bears Best.

    I know who they are, and thank you guys. Big time.

    *two thumbs up*
    Rigs:
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  23. #573
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    Yippie!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigHit-Maniac View Post
    Just came in to say THANK YOU to the guys that have worked and made Bears Best.

    I know who they are, and thank you guys. Big time.

    *two thumbs up*
    FREAKING HEY!! Once again I didn't go to ride Bear's Best for a week and what do you know, come to find out there are 3 more miles of brand spanking new single track. Needless to say I left the trails with a face like this

    Hats off
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    We grow old because we stop playing

  24. #574
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    Re: Bears Best MTB Trail

    Look back at my wheelapolooza ride. Welcome to Fight Club

  25. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camaleon View Post
    FREAKING HEY!! Once again I didn't go to ride Bear's Best for a week and what do you know, come to find out there are 3 more miles of brand spanking new single track. Needless to say I left the trails with a face like this

    Hats off
    It should lead nicely into what should eventually become "OUR" south mountain...
    I dig dirt!

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