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  1. #26
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    American Classics were on my short list alone with Easton Havons and something based around Hope Hubs.

  2. #27
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    Handlebar: take a look at an Answer 720 AM Carbon bar. I just picked one up for my new SC Nickel frame.
    '96 San Andreas
    '12 Santa Cruz Nickel LT
    '08 KTM 530
    '12 Toyota FJ TT
    '05 MiniCooper S
    '95 Honda HB Si
    '71 Dino 246 GT

  3. #28
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    I'll add it to the list of potential candidates.

  4. #29
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    Considering the santa cruz nickel was $10 more I would have bought that. I have two mountain cycle battery bikes and will stop using one of them soon so the other one has spare parts.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dytrdr5 View Post
    Considering the santa cruz nickel was $10 more I would have bought that. I have two mountain cycle battery bikes and will stop using one of them soon so the other one has spare parts.
    Na, the geo numbers weren't right for me.

    Besides, the nickel has a 1/2" less travel, comes with a Fox RP 23 rather than the X Fusion, the switch technology turntable eccentric is much more robust than a simple intermediate link for stiffness, I prefer the straight tubed front triangle, and I even like the color

    Money wasn't an issue, between the Zen II, Foes Shaver, and the Nickel, the Nickel placed third.

    If I like this well enough I will buy a second to have on deck for back up like your doing with your Batterys.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dytrdr5 View Post
    Considering the santa cruz nickel was $10 more I would have bought that. I have two mountain cycle battery bikes and will stop using one of them soon so the other one has spare parts.
    I paid $675 brand new for the Nickel from Huck & Roll. Brown Santa is delivering it tomorrow! The Nickel really reminds me of a modern SA, in that it is a very stout, do it all kinda bike.
    '96 San Andreas
    '12 Santa Cruz Nickel LT
    '08 KTM 530
    '12 Toyota FJ TT
    '05 MiniCooper S
    '95 Honda HB Si
    '71 Dino 246 GT

  7. #32
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    The X-Fusion is a better shock. I'll be putting a CCDBA on mine.
    You can't feel a difference in stiffness between the two frames. If the Zen II is stiffer, it's because of the rear axel.
    '96 San Andreas
    '12 Santa Cruz Nickel LT
    '08 KTM 530
    '12 Toyota FJ TT
    '05 MiniCooper S
    '95 Honda HB Si
    '71 Dino 246 GT

  8. #33
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    As far as stiffness is concerned I don't have a Nickel to compare to, but it wouldn't suprise me as I feel any single pivot design would benefit from running a link driven shock not only for tuning, but rigidity as well. The swingarm on the Zen feels like a welded member so if anything the eccentric could be considered overbuilt, way more stiff than the rear of my Horst link equiped Titus El Guapo.

    All that to say my comments weren't a dis on the Nickel, I think the Nickel is rad and would own one if it were closer to what I want in geometry. I was just saying that between the two I thought the Turntable switch was more trick as I was already dazzled by the Yetti SB-66.

    The rear axle is a win all around, so simple and strong. I'm not sure about the PF30 BB shell yet. I have to return the Problem solvers eccentric BB as it was a slop fit. I have a Beer Components on the way which after talking to Jim at Beer should be much more snug.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    As far as stiffness is concerned I don't have a Nickel to compare to, but it wouldn't suprise me as I feel any single pivot design would benefit from running a link driven shock not only for tuning, but rigidity as well. The swingarm on the Zen feels like a welded member so if anything the eccentric could be considered overbuilt, way more stiff than the rear of my Horst link equiped Titus El Guapo.

    All that to say my comments weren't a dis on the Nickel, I think the Nickel is rad and would own one if it were closer to what I want in geometry. I was just saying that between the two I thought the Turntable switch was more trick as I was already dazzled by the Yetti SB-66.

    The rear axle is a win all around, so simple and strong. I'm not sure about the PF30 BB shell yet. I have to return the Problem solvers eccentric BB as it was a slop fit. I have a Beer Components on the way which after talking to Jim at Beer should be much more snug.
    Yeah, I think both are a little overbuilt, which is ok. I think the turntable is a great piece. I hope it makes it way onto some other frame someday.
    '96 San Andreas
    '12 Santa Cruz Nickel LT
    '08 KTM 530
    '12 Toyota FJ TT
    '05 MiniCooper S
    '95 Honda HB Si
    '71 Dino 246 GT

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Yeah, I think both are a little overbuilt, which is ok. I think the turntable is a great piece. I hope it makes it way onto some other frame someday.
    You won't have to wait long for that to happen. When I'm not on my phone I can post more details.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammydog View Post
    You won't have to wait long for that to happen. When I'm not on my phone I can post more details.
    Oh, please do. Can't wait to hear where Turntable might turn up, lol.
    '96 San Andreas
    '12 Santa Cruz Nickel LT
    '08 KTM 530
    '12 Toyota FJ TT
    '05 MiniCooper S
    '95 Honda HB Si
    '71 Dino 246 GT

  12. #37
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    Do I detect a not of sarcasm in there?

    Anyway, as you probably know/guessed, G is doing his own thing, this is a post from elsewhere

    Quote Originally Posted by g
    We have the license for the Turntable suspension and the (full) monocoque style design is 95% done - this is the bike I have always wanted to do without having to make compromises. I'm readying to hand it over to the engineer types and then we'll move to initial tooling and proto. Our effort though is the first option of ultra low volume, where each and every frame we are looking at doing is hands on by yours truly and the 'team'.
    I've seen the final 3D renders of the bike, looks really nice. Very different to any of the new MC bikes.

    Having ridden the Turntable, I love it, so I will be interested to try this new frame when it comes out. Being made in this part of the world though, I am guessing it will be done in small numbers (thats an assumption on my part, not a comment guided by the people involved in the bike) and not sure how widely it will be distributed.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammydog View Post
    Do I detect a not of sarcasm in there?

    Anyway, as you probably know/guessed, G is doing his own thing, this is a post from elsewhere



    I've seen the final 3D renders of the bike, looks really nice. Very different to any of the new MC bikes.

    Having ridden the Turntable, I love it, so I will be interested to try this new frame when it comes out. Being made in this part of the world though, I am guessing it will be done in small numbers (thats an assumption on my part, not a comment guided by the people involved in the bike) and not sure how widely it will be distributed.

    No, not at all. I do, for real think the Turntable is a great piece. I hope G, this time, can make good use of it.
    '96 San Andreas
    '12 Santa Cruz Nickel LT
    '08 KTM 530
    '12 Toyota FJ TT
    '05 MiniCooper S
    '95 Honda HB Si
    '71 Dino 246 GT

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    No, not at all. I do, for real hint the Turntable is a great piece. I hope G, this time, can make good use of it.
    I'll make sure pics/info go up when they are available.

  15. #40
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    Where can that rendering be viewed? Or where is there more info? They must not have an exclusive license on the Turntable. Unless they just recently secured it. Because The Sotto Group told me it was available.

    This is very interesting. I hope something great comes of it.
    '96 San Andreas
    '12 Santa Cruz Nickel LT
    '08 KTM 530
    '12 Toyota FJ TT
    '05 MiniCooper S
    '95 Honda HB Si
    '71 Dino 246 GT

  16. #41
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    There is no renderings on the net, well that I am aware of. G, has been letting little bits of info out on the net.

    Other than what he has put out there himself, I won't divulge anymore info/details as its not my place, nor my bike. happy to collate the info he throws out there though and put it on here.

  17. #42
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    Out with the new and in with the new

    I've only been riding the Titus since late January. I had the rear tri powder coated and believe the El Guapo in general to have the most eye appeal amungst the swoopy tubed bikes on the market.

    Unfortunately it has a 17.36" (441mm) chain stay and an overall wheel base of 45 1/8" (1146mm) otherwise the EG would be the one, very stable at speed but lumbersome in the slow and technical. The 6" of Horst link suspension with the Monarch RT3 works extremely well.

    Can't hardly wait to ride the Zen, after the experience i've gained on the EG as a baseline it should be very telling as I'm still very much at a stage where I'm trying to hone in on what my own personnal strengths, weaknesses, and preferences are.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Taking a gamble on a Zen II-mceg.jpg  


  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammydog View Post
    I got my Zen II last week. Looks good, better than I was expecting as the prototype Zen I had seen regularly over the last 2 years was an XL. Definitely looks a lot better in the smaller size.

    The warranty issue is a valid concern and something each individual person will have to weigh up before pulling the trigger. My experience with some other brands is that a warranty isn't worth much on some occasions anyway. That all aside, the bikes look strong and as with Jon, if a hanger breaks, I'll have one machined up.

    The suspension is engineered by the guys who did the Yeti switch system, so it should prove to be a nice design. As with you, I like the geometry numbers and think it all stacks up will with offerings from other companies.

    If the frame goes and has issues, I'll weigh it up at the time and probably have it repaired, but I hope I never have to worry about that. I've ridden Proflex's for 20 years and they are a pain to get bits for and machining/improvising becomes one of the best options. If the San An and Zen are bikes that leave a mark on me, getting bits machined is somewhere I would be prepared to go.

    What fork are you looking to run on the bike Jon? i am running a Revelation RTL Ti at 150mm. Rakes the front out a bit to about 68 degrees, but the BB height is still fine.
    dont care what the haterz say, the new lineup is dope

  19. #44
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    I took the new Zen out this morning, no time for pics or anything to in depth but I can say this was for sure a smart buy.

    She weighs in at 30 1/4 lbs. (13.720 kg) I run sticky tires, 165mm cranks, and my granny is 25t front 28t rear so climbing is a bear. Even so, the rear suspension tracks the terrain perfectly. The El Guapo is an extremely nice execution of the Horst link design, but the Zen is noticably better. The rear of the Zen is stiffer than a wedding d!ck.

    I am actually shocked at how well the rear performed. It is supple while having a fast rebound yet damped just right. I attribute this to the turn table design. You can feel the falling rate followed by the ramping up of the shock rate. The initial part of the rebound accelerates rapidly but slows as it stabilizes, like it gives easily but is eagar to stand back up without any sensation of bucking. Very natural feeling and the rear wheel always tracks and follows the terrain.

    Overall this is a fun, nimble, bomber of a bike that leaves me feeling more in control that will undoubtedly take abuse. I am quite happy with my decision to give the Zen a shot.

  20. #45
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    I was really impressed with the suspension on the San An, so I can't wait to get out on the Zen. Should finish the build tonight which means I can ride very soon.

    Can't wait to see some pics of your bike finished,

    What fork did you end up running? I have a 150mm Revelation on mine, a bit longer than should be on there so the head angle will slacken, and I am running a -0.5 degree headset. Hopefully its not too slack or I will need to turn the headset around. To compensate for the superslack head angle though I will be running a short stem.

    Great to hear you are loving yours though.

  21. #46
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    I'm running a Maverick DUC 32 150mm travel fork. The A2C is around 520mm. I measured the HTA at 68.1 deg. which was what I was aiming for.

    I wanted this frame as it measured at 69.5 deg. HTA with a 130mm fork so I had a feeling the DUC 32 fork would slacken the HTA to where I wanted it, it worked out perfectly.

    Hers a pic of the forks on my El Guapo-


    I'm 6'1" tall with a 34" inseam. The Zen frame is a medium so I run a 90mm stem. The Beer Components eccentric BB sets the cranks back and down 5mm so it helps correct the fact that the seat tube was slackened and puts the BB height right back to the listed 13.3" stock measurement.

    The stack and reach feel great for me, the short 16.7" (425mm) chainstay and overall short 42.7" (1084.5mm) wheel base make for a real playful ride.

    I'll try for some pics tommorrow.

  22. #47
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    Just measured my head angle to be 67 degrees with the 150mm Revelations and a -0.5 degree angleset. I will see how it rides and I may end up spinning the headset the other way which would put me at 68 degrees.

    I'll start with trial and error I guess.

  23. #48
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    I demo'ed a Foes Shaver that ran at 67 deg. on the head tube. The Shaver has a similar rear suspension design being single pivot with a added link to modify the shock rate and the travel is around the same as the Zen.

    That one degree of head tube angle really changed the handling. I didn't like it as much personally and feel anything beyond 68 deg. is better served on a longer travel bike traveling at stupid rediculous speeds. I built my Zen for trail duty and I'm kinda slow.

    Remember, as the head tube gets slackened the front wheel to BB distance increases (front center). This plays a huge roll in how a bike handles. The front center on my Zen with a 68 deg. HTA and a 520mm A2C fork measures 26" (660mm). That medium Shaver at 67 deg. HTA I rode had an identical front center as my large El Guapo having an HTA of 68.5 deg. both being 27.75" (705mm).

    I would be curious to know what your front center measures at with the slackset.

    Sorry, no pics yet

  24. #49
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    Heres a (poor quality) shot of the Zen II as ridden last Sunday. Not exactly how I want it set up, but good enough for a shake down.

    Lucky #13
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Taking a gamble on a Zen II-zenside.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images  

  25. #50
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    Nice, looks good with those forks.

    Any idea on the finished weight?

    Mine will be rideable tomorrow hopefully, but I just ordered some Stans Wheels so I don't have to share a wheelset with my San An.

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