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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    She weighs in at 30 1/4 lbs. (13.720 kg) I run sticky tires, 165mm cranks, and my granny is 25t front 28t rear so climbing is a bear.
    It would be nice to have less weight, but looking the frame over I'm not sure where they could have shaved mass and retained the confidence inspiring, brick house construction.

    It costs a little speed in the climbs, but I like to jump and drop. I would change nothing.

  2. #52
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    Here we go, finally a progress shot of my Zen2. Still a few parts to go.

    Traded some bits with a friend, they sent their 9 speed cassette instead of a 10, so waiting for that. Ordered a Stans NoTubes wheelset as well so i don't have to share these wheels with the San An.

    All up, looks like weighing in a tad under 13.5kg's. The Stans wheels will be a big reduction on the ones in the photo.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Taking a gamble on a Zen II-zen1.jpg  

    Taking a gamble on a Zen II-zen2.jpg  


  3. #53
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    Looking pretty nice!

  4. #54
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    I'm really happy with this one, new wheels will be black which won't look as nice, but they will be lighter and more suited to where this bike is going to be ridden. The San An can keep the heavy duty wheels.

  5. #55
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    I had a Stans Arch EX laced to a 32 hole Hadley single speed hub for the rear. What model Stans rims did you order?

    I'm also curious about cable and brake line routing. It appears you ran yours using the tabs on the swing arm, does this work out well? I ended up running the rear D cable inside the swing arm, works good.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  6. #56
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    Here is some more of an update taken from elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by g
    Well, 'we' have been working on a design for a monocoque for the past few months and on Friday I handed it over to the engineer in the team for FEA (finite element analysis) work then engineering design for tooling; so we are moving forward!

    A few people around here have been privy to what we have been doing but until we get it through the first few rounds of FEA and everyone's happy, the wraps shall stay on. What I can say is that it :

    1. It's a monocoque.

    2. It's made fully in the 'west'.

    3. It uses the same Turntable suspension license we used in the MC frames.

    4. It will come in 140 and 160mm

    and…

    5. Love it or hate it, we're using 27.5 wheels, as they make a LOT of sense.

    The design's aggressive and far more 'moto' inspired than anything currently on the market and I am looking at some interesting options for people to become involved.

    We are calling it 'Privateer' and when ready, I'll throw info up here to share
    The renders look really nice. Well I think so. Will be interesting to see how it pans out in the flesh.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammydog View Post
    Here is some more of an update taken from elsewhere.



    The renders look really nice. Well I think so. Will be interesting to see how it pans out in the flesh.
    Wow, that sounds very interesting! Can't wait to see it. It sounds like someone is learning from past mistakes, good to see that.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    The Beer Components eccentric BB sets the cranks back and down 5mm so it helps correct the fact that the seat tube was slackened and puts the BB height right back to the listed 13.3" stock.....
    Watch out for moving the BB around like that. The suspension is still a SP design and the entire system is set very carefully to optimise chain forces and the like. Moving the BB even 5mm will change the performance characteristics of the system quite a bit.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    It sounds like someone is learning from past mistakes, good to see that.
    I decided that it is not worth the comment in the end. I read back on a LOT of the opinions you spouted on various threads here over the past months Shawn and realised, in the end, what's the point?

    If people want any sort of information regarding the Zen II and SA 2.0, this is where you'll find me: https://www.facebook.com/groups/296660760405714/

    As many will attest to, I am more than happy to help those with the new bikes out where I can.

    Cheers and beers!

    g
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    Design Guy [SanAndreas 2.0, Zen II]
    Last edited by G..; 08-04-2012 at 10:32 PM.
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    Design Guy [SanAndreas 2.0, Zen II]

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.. View Post
    Watch out for moving the BB around like that. The suspension is still a SP design and the entire system is set very carefully to optimise chain forces and the like. Moving the BB even 5mm will change the performance characteristics of the system quite a bit.
    I was aware of this before I did so and am indeed cautious and weary of making adjustments in that regard. I could not gain a full understanding of what the effect would be without trying it for myself.

    I have only been on one ride since building the bike, but man-O-man this thing rides nice so far. I have not experienced any negative effects as of yet.

    The eccentric has an offset of 6mm. I clocked the cups in the BB shell at approximately 8 O clock viewed from the D side so the crank spindle went more back than down.

    I would imagine going down with the BB in relation to the pivot would be better for square edged hits and resisting pedal induced bob. If you have the time or inclination to post here again would you share your thoughts on what the potential change in performance characteristics would be? it would help me understand what to look for when next I ride.

    Thanks G, I'm really pleased with the Zen II and think you did a fantastic job.

  11. #61
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    Hey Jon, glad yer loving the ride and thanks for the words

    The effects of moving the BB will have more to do with the way the pedal force interacts with the rear. The system is tuned for optimal system feedback, so obviously moving points will diminish this somewhat. Now, that all said, the effects overall will probably be quite small, as the shock, and a fully loaded rider (of variable weight), has more than a little effect on the system as well! So overall I think you'll be all good; and if you're loving the ride, what's more to say eh?

    Come join the party here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/296660760405714/

    Cheers and beers,

    g

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    Design Guy [SanAndreas 2.0, Zen II]
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    Design Guy [SanAndreas 2.0, Zen II]

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.. View Post
    I decided that it is not worth the comment in the end. I read back on a LOT of the opinions you spouted on various threads here over the past months Shawn and realised, in the end, what's the point?

    If people want any sort of information regarding the Zen II and SA 2.0, this is where you'll find me: https://www.facebook.com/groups/296660760405714/

    As many will attest to, I am more than happy to help those with the new bikes out where I can.

    Cheers and beers!

    g
    ---
    Design Guy [SanAndreas 2.0, Zen II]
    Well, I wish you luck with what are doing now. It sounds interesting and I can't wait to see it.

  13. #63
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    I have Stans Alpines on the Stans Hubs. They were going super cheap locally, so I had to take a punt on them, Sure are light, fingers crossed they hold up as well as people have told me they do.

  14. #64
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    A more up to date shot of mine. Wheels are now on. Only thing missing is the front rotor, should have that sorted this week and I am away.

    Thinking I will need to turn the adjustable headset around, may be a tad slack at the moment.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Taking a gamble on a Zen II-zen.jpg  


  15. #65
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    Those should be very light weight wheels indeed. Please report how they fair as I am contemplating a second lighter set of wheels for certain trails were my climbing suffers.

    Your Zen is looking real sharp sammy.

    You may end up needing a standard headset to get the angle best for you. If I recall you said it stands at 67.5 degrees at the moment with a .5 slackset.

  16. #66
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    Its 67 at the moment, so if I reverse it I should be at 68. I think that would be a better angle.

    I am planning to replace the rims on my San An with the Stans Arch, I have syncros rims on it at the moment so going to the arch on that bike would be a massive weight saving.

    I think the Alpine will be fine on the Zen because I won't be riding anything stupid on this bike. It will be my general trail bike so the wheels should fair well, I hope.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammydog View Post
    I have Stans Alpines on the Stans Hubs. They were going super cheap locally, so I had to take a punt on them, Sure are light, fingers crossed they hold up as well as people have told me they do.
    How much does the wheelset weigh?

  18. #68
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    I bet those Alpines weigh in the low 1400 gram region, if not below 1400g.

    I took to messing with my Zen and purchased a rear fender for a Devinci Wilson just to see if it might squeeze into the swing arm and help keep debris from being flung toward the pivots and switch link. I cut, drilled, and used a heat lamp to shape the darn thing till it would cooperate.

    What do you think? is it out of place? I'm not sure a 2.3 or larger tire would clear it. As of now I am running a 2.1 Kenda slant six-
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Taking a gamble on a Zen II-fenderonly.jpg  

    Taking a gamble on a Zen II-fenderback.jpg  

    Taking a gamble on a Zen II-fenderside.jpg  

    Taking a gamble on a Zen II-fenderndside.jpg  


  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    How much does the wheelset weigh?
    Had to just go and check the Stans Wheel Weight calculator. Turns out they are around 1450g for the set.

    Pretty happy with that and will definitely getting some Arch rims for my San An.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    I bet those Alpines weigh in the low 1400 gram region, if not below 1400g.

    I took to messing with my Zen and purchased a rear fender for a Devinci Wilson just to see if it might squeeze into the swing arm and help keep debris from being flung toward the pivots and switch link. I cut, drilled, and used a heat lamp to shape the darn thing till it would cooperate.

    What do you think? is it out of place? I'm not sure a 2.3 or larger tire would clear it. As of now I am running a 2.1 Kenda slant six-
    The fender looks good. But, I would think the Seatpost would protect that area pretty well.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammydog View Post
    Had to just go and check the Stans Wheel Weight calculator. Turns out they are around 1450g for the set.

    Pretty happy with that and will definitely getting some Arch rims for my San An.
    Nice! That would put my Nickel in the low 26 pound range. And if it ever gets below 100 degrees here, close to Los Angeles, I may even be able to get it dirty.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    The fender looks good. But, I would think the Seatpost would protect that area pretty well.
    Well thanks for the feedback, I'll decide how I like it after I ride with it to see how it fares.

    I noticed some crud collecting around the eccentric and thought I might try a little something, we'll see if it make a difference. Take another look at that last photo, thats not a place I want to invite the ingress of dirt



    I was thinking of building up a second set of wheels with Crests, I want to hear back from you sammy about how well the Alpines hold up after you get a chance to put them through the paces.

  23. #73
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    I'm not too worried about debris or mud getting into the shock far that very reason. It all nicely tucked away forward of the post and should stay out of most of the muck.

    That said, I don't tend to ride once the trails get too muddy.

  24. #74
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    Hello U lucky guys!
    How are you doing with your new Zen's?
    I'm interrested of build me a new trail rocket but whan't to go 650b wheels.
    By your experience of the Zen II, do you think it's possible?
    // Lars the Swede

  25. #75
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    I'm really happy with my Zen II, but I doubt there is room for a 650B. I run a 2.1 Kenda slant six in the rear and have less than 1/2" (12mm) clearence between the chainstay crossmember and the top of the tire.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    I'm really happy with my Zen II, but I doubt there is room for a 650B. I run a 2.1 Kenda slant six in the rear and have less than 1/2" (12mm) clearence between the chainstay crossmember and the top of the tire.
    I have to agree, I am loving the Zen but wouldn't be confident trying to stick a 650B in there.

  27. #77
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    Couple questions regarding the Zen II

    Hi, congrats on buying and enjoying the Zen II. I'm looking to buy a frame at the moment.
    I'm 6'2", I think the correct size frame is the LG, or would it be the XL?
    Can anyone let me know what mount diameter I should get for the front derailleur? And it's bottom pull no low mount necessary, right?
    How have the frames held up for those riding a few months?
    Thanks in advance!

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by perek View Post
    Hi, congrats on buying and enjoying the Zen II. I'm looking to buy a frame at the moment.
    I'm 6'2", I think the correct size frame is the LG, or would it be the XL?
    Can anyone let me know what mount diameter I should get for the front derailleur? And it's bottom pull no low mount necessary, right?
    How have the frames held up for those riding a few months?
    Thanks in advance!
    You do realize that they are not made anymore, and there are no replacement parts or warranty available if you break something?

  29. #79
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    I'm 6'1" and I ride a medium but I would say a large would typically be a better fit for someone your height.

    I can't recall what diameter front derailer clamp off the top of my head, I'll get back to you on that if no one else remembers. Low mount bottom pull for sure.

    Mine has been flawless, I just pulled the swing arm and shock link apart last night to clean and inspect and really like how everything is fashioned. I'll post pics later.

    You really can't go wrong with the ZenII.

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    You do realize that they are not made anymore, and there are no replacement parts or warranty available if you break something?
    MC Shawn speaks the truth, thus if you want one you have to be willing to take a gamble.

    Quote Originally Posted by perek View Post
    Can anyone let me know what mount diameter I should get for the front derailleur? And it's bottom pull no low mount necessary, right?
    Low mount is necessary, the clamp or mount diameter is 34.9mm.

    Here's pics as promised, 8 cartridge bearings and 3 thru shafts with threaded caps for setting bearing preload. It looked a lot more involved then it actually turned out to be, really straight forward.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Taking a gamble on a Zen II-img_20130107_223844_892.jpg  

    Taking a gamble on a Zen II-img_20130107_225606_616.jpg  


  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    You do realize that they are not made anymore, and there are no replacement parts or warranty available if you break something?
    Thats true, but I still haven't heard of any breaks. And depending on what brand you get, the warranty is as good as no warranty.

    With the MC's its just a matter of weighing up cost v's risk. cost won out for me and both the zen 2 and San An 2.0 have been sweet.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by perek View Post
    Hi, congrats on buying and enjoying the Zen II. I'm looking to buy a frame at the moment.
    I'm 6'2", I think the correct size frame is the LG, or would it be the XL?
    Can anyone let me know what mount diameter I should get for the front derailleur? And it's bottom pull no low mount necessary, right?
    How have the frames held up for those riding a few months?
    Thanks in advance!
    I'm 5'10" and the medium is spot on.

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammydog View Post
    Thats true, but I still haven't heard of any breaks. And depending on what brand you get, the warranty is as good as no warranty.

    With the MC's its just a matter of weighing up cost v's risk. cost won out for me and both the zen 2 and San An 2.0 have been sweet.
    Yeah, I know what you mean. That's why I looked at the SC Nickel at $600. It's a great bike, even at full price. SC customer service is top notch and they have promised to support the Nickel and Butcher for a long time. I'm just loving my Nickel, I just can't find anything wrong with it no matter how hard I try. I even put a 57mm stroke RS Monarch RT3 shock on it to give it 145mm of travel and I put a new 150mm RS Revelation Dual air on it, and saved some weight at the same time. I'm in at less then 27 pounds now.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I'm in at less then 27 pounds now.
    You suck

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    You suck

    Haha!

  36. #86
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    I have a pile of parts waiting to go on my Zen in hopes of shedding a couple of pounds but I don't think under 27 is going to happen for me.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Yeah, I know what you mean. That's why I looked at the SC Nickel at $600. It's a great bike, even at full price. SC customer service is top notch and they have promised to support the Nickel and Butcher for a long time. I'm just loving my Nickel, I just can't find anything wrong with it no matter how hard I try. I even put a 57mm stroke RS Monarch RT3 shock on it to give it 145mm of travel and I put a new 150mm RS Revelation Dual air on it, and saved some weight at the same time. I'm in at less then 27 pounds now.
    My initial build on the Zen was 29.5 pounds.

    I've since replace the wheelset. While I haven't weighed it since the change, in theory it should now be down to around 28.2 pounds. Could shave some more off the bars/post/seat but won't bother. A lot more tuning would be required on the engine for any benefit. I'm guessing sub 27 would be possible, I just don't know for me that there will be enough of a benefit in chasing it.

    I do need to replace the wheels on the San An now though.

    After all this time on the bike, only fault I have with the bike is my decision to put the headset in at -0.5 degrees, With the longer fork I should have had it at +0.5 degrees. Will change it one day.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammydog View Post
    My initial build on the Zen was 29.5 pounds.

    I've since replace the wheelset. While I haven't weighed it since the change, in theory it should now be down to around 28.2 pounds. Could shave some more off the bars/post/seat but won't bother. A lot more tuning would be required on the engine for any benefit. I'm guessing sub 27 would be possible, I just don't know for me that there will be enough of a benefit in chasing it.

    I do need to replace the wheels on the San An now though.

    After all this time on the bike, only fault I have with the bike is my decision to put the headset in at -0.5 degrees, With the longer fork I should have had it at +0.5 degrees. Will change it one day.
    I could drop another 400 grams with a light wheelset. But I like the wheels on it. I'm going to convert the rear wheel to 10mm and add a DT Swiss RWS through bolt. That will add a little weight, but not much. I'm really not a weight weenie. it's just that I got such a good deal on the frame, and I took my time finding new parts on deep discount, I just couldn't help but buy light but durable parts.

  39. #89
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    The reality is, any weight you add for a through bolt you won't notice, but you will notice the positive impact on stiffness.

    Don't get me wrongI love the Nickel frame, even at full RRP. I always had a soft spot for the Bullet, dated now, but still a great frame. I actually prefer the simpler Santa Cruz bikes.

    Having spent time on the new Zen though, I wouldn't have been disappointed if I paid full price for it, I just would't have had a San An and Zen.

  40. #90
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    Ya Sammy I'm still curious to hear your impressions on the difference in handling characteristics once you rotate that slackset. Did you ever measure the distance from the BB to the front axle the way it is set up now?

  41. #91
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    I haven't measured, but I will do it this weekend for you.

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammydog View Post
    The reality is, any weight you add for a through bolt you won't notice, but you will notice the positive impact on stiffness.

    Don't get me wrongI love the Nickel frame, even at full RRP. I always had a soft spot for the Bullet, dated now, but still a great frame. I actually prefer the simpler Santa Cruz bikes.

    Having spent time on the new Zen though, I wouldn't have been disappointed if I paid full price for it, I just would't have had a San An and Zen.
    I think it's very cool that you have one of each.

  43. #93
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    Since I had the swing arm, eccentric, and link apart I went ahead and had the pieces anodized. I was never that thrilled with the yellow colored link and the black eccentric in the black frame was less than complimentary to such a cool component.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Taking a gamble on a Zen II-img_20130119_240030_289.jpg  


  44. #94
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    Look awesome. I would have to make the link red though. Which would leave me with a dilemma for the eccentric.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammydog View Post
    Look awesome. I would have to make the link red though. Which would leave me with a dilemma for the eccentric.
    The black eccentric on the white frame looks pretty good, I didn't like it on the black frame because it was to hidden.

  46. #96
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    Did you end up going with a single, double or triple ring up front?

    I have been running a single 32, but am looking now at a double or triple set up. Not sure which way to go.

  47. #97
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    I run a double ring up front that is composed of a 25t rotor ring and a 38t standard round ring.

    I only have six cogs on the back wheel so I run the double up front to keep a decent gear spread, plus I ran a 1x9 an missed having the ability to quickly down shift, one click an I can climb.

  48. #98
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    I got bored and decided to have the link redone in a high polish. I sent it to STB performance coatings-
    STB performance coatings~Home

    He's a fellow MTBR member under the handle crazy8 and a great guy. I asked for the high polish and he also threw in a touch of ceramic coat in the recesses that really set it off. This man is an artist.

    My low res pics don't really do the piece justice, it really looks slick in person.

    Name:  IMG_20130628_153708_149.jpg
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Size:  56.9 KBTaking a gamble on a Zen II-img_20130628_153805_490.jpgName:  IMG_20130630_130251_230.jpg
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Size:  101.8 KBTaking a gamble on a Zen II-img_20130630_130432_467.jpg

  49. #99
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    That looks sweet.

    Not sure it would work on my all white frame, would probably need to be anodised red to stand out, but against the black, the polished look is great.

    Are you still liking the bike? I never got around to changing the headset around on mine. I need to.....just lazy.

    Still going through the eternal debate over 1 or 2 chainrings up front.

  50. #100
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    The truth is I haven't ridden the bike off road for a couple months. I've made a ton of changes to the bike and feel it is my dream trail machine, lots of carbon and lighter wheels. I haven't wieghed it since my last upgrade but it should tip the scale around 26.5lbs which I don't think is bad at all for a 8.5lb frame.

    I think a red anno link would look real good on a white frame. As far as gear train I'm extremely happy with 2X6 but I stand and mash. Lots of opinion on 1x9, 1x10, 1x11, 2x and 3x but it is too terrain and rider preference dependent to say for sure what would suit you best. I like having a front derailer for rapid downshifting and chain retention. If you decide on multiple chain rings I can't recommend Wickwerks enough!

    I have loved bikes my whole life and this is easily the best one I've ever built
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Taking a gamble on a Zen II-img_20130630_130358_644.jpg  

    Taking a gamble on a Zen II-img_20130630_130444_201.jpg  

    Taking a gamble on a Zen II-img_20130630_130601_652.jpg  


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