Ok, so I have owned my Moto Outcast 29 for less than a year. I basically built it up in February I think so I will say I have been on it for about 8-9 months now. Which at this point I can say that I am over the new bike hype and can give a more honest review of it.
First of all I will say that it is not a weight weenies dream frame. I have a medium size frame which weighs in right at about 4.6 lbs if I remember correctly (been a while since I had it all in pieces and weighed only the frame).
As most of you know it is made by Kenesis (been around for years) and is made of 6000 series aluminum.
The ride quality is like any other aluminum frame in my opinion in that it is stiff. I will say that the frame does not flex as much as my old Super Go Access frame however which was impossible to ride as an SS set up as it simply kept throwing the chain (yes, I did the conversion properly).
I think it is great that the bike can be run geared or as an SS. However, now that I realize I like SS more, I am now wishing the frame simply looked cleaner by not having all the extra cable stops on it or the rear rack mounts on the seat stays. To me, tha tis just extra crap on the bike adding unneeded weight.
The bottom line is that it was an economical way for me to build up a 29er and see what all the hype was about. Honestly, I am sold. Not that I wouldn't go back to a 26" mind you but I would have to have a racing set up full squish for me to do that and I just don't see me dropping that sort of coin for something that I probably wouldn't ride that much.
In any case, I would have to say that my largest gripe about this particular frame is the whole slider setup/design.
1. When I got my frame it had a goopy weld on the inside area that prevented one side of the slider from being flush to the dropout area. Instead of filing down the frame, I simply dremilled out a small track in the slider plate. I figured it would be cheaper for me to replace the plate than the frame. This worked quite well. Had I not been so frickn stoked to get the bike together and ride, I should have returned the frame. However, the bike has almost completely built by the time I found this problem.
2. There is no tensioner system for the sliders. This makes things a little bit more of a PITA to get the wheel centered in the frame intially.
3. The hooded design of the dropouts/slider mounts on the frame make it impossible to get any sort of washer under the bolt to help prevent scaring up the frame.
4. Because it comes with no washers (I highly suggest you buy some before installing your wheel and tightening things down) tightening up the slider mounting bolts basically put dents into the softer aluminum. The problem here is that it creates indentations that the bolts simply want to migrate back to if/when the wheel slips (because there are no tensioners you can't really prevent this unless you crank down the tension on the mounting bolts, thus making the scaring worse) Which of course is what happened to me. Not that I really cranked on them mind you but we are dealing with aluminum here so there is a fine line. I will elaborate on this a little more shortly.
So other than that, I don't have alot of complaints about the frame. I went into it knowing that it was an inexpensive option for me. Unfortunately, alot of my parts are worth more than my frame at this point and I guess it is time to start looking into something a little nicer. The downside to this is that I have become quite picky about what I am looking for and what I feel works for me. I don't want to settle on something that simply works. I want something that does what I want it to, is lighter, designed better (paragon sliders), cleaner welds, no extra cable guides...Pretty much, that leaves custom! But I don't custom funding so that is just going to have to wait or I will have to settle on something else. That being said, I think a Jabber might be in the picture but I won't be doing anything until the spring.
Ok back to the slider issue. As noted above, the bolts put dents in the metal. By crushing the metal with the bolt it basically caused the metal to swell around the screw. This became apparent when I tried to tension the chain last week. I could see that there was still room in the slider to pull the wheel back but it wouldn't move. I pulled the bolts out and saw that the slot had been transformed if you will. I ended up having to buy a small set of files. I took one of the small files and filed down each slot in the sliders (6 all together) to open the slots back up to their original size. This allowed the bolts to slide easily from one end of the slider to the other w/ no hang ups.
The only issue remaining is the areas where the bolts dug into the frame. I have found some washers at my local hardware super store that fit into the hooded dropouts but they are the same size as the bolt head. What is needed is a washer that is the same size as the hooded area with a slot in them. This would provide a steel reiforced area for the bolt to tighten onto without further damage to the frame. Now here is the challenge. Go find a washer like that! I have looked all over the place for the past couple of months and found nothing. McMaster-Carr had/has nothing of the sort. The only thing I can think of is trying to get a thing piece of sheet metal and making my own somehow. But I just don't think it will be worth the amount of work it will take. I mean it will probably take me a good hour to just make the first one (prototype) and then I'm sure things would speed up a bit. But the bottom line is that I will need 6 of them!
I spoke with Bike Direct via email a month or so about this and they did offer for me to send them back my frame so they could take a look. Realistically, there really isn't anything they can do. I mean this is not a defect in the frame. It is a design issue and the minute you tighten up your bolts you will have created these dents in the frame. It is now a User issue imo. Trust me, I would love to swap it out but the reality is that I will have the same problem on the next one. The desin has not changed so the problem is still there.
So there you have it. The bike is still in working order though I don't have as much tension on my chain as I would like. It has not created a problem just yet in that I have not thrown my chain. I have heard it pop a couple of times mind you which means it was close though. That being the case, I guess the search is on for my next frame.
I'm sure alot of you probably have not experienced this. For you, I highly recommend that you at least find some washers to slip under the stock mounting bolts as this will help a bit. I will at least prevent the bolt from digging into the frame as you tighten them. I'm not saying that it will prevent any crushing or deforming of the slots but at least you won't be drilling into it.
First of all I will say that it is not a weight weenies dream frame. I have a medium size frame which weighs in right at about 4.6 lbs if I remember correctly (been a while since I had it all in pieces and weighed only the frame).
As most of you know it is made by Kenesis (been around for years) and is made of 6000 series aluminum.
The ride quality is like any other aluminum frame in my opinion in that it is stiff. I will say that the frame does not flex as much as my old Super Go Access frame however which was impossible to ride as an SS set up as it simply kept throwing the chain (yes, I did the conversion properly).
I think it is great that the bike can be run geared or as an SS. However, now that I realize I like SS more, I am now wishing the frame simply looked cleaner by not having all the extra cable stops on it or the rear rack mounts on the seat stays. To me, tha tis just extra crap on the bike adding unneeded weight.
The bottom line is that it was an economical way for me to build up a 29er and see what all the hype was about. Honestly, I am sold. Not that I wouldn't go back to a 26" mind you but I would have to have a racing set up full squish for me to do that and I just don't see me dropping that sort of coin for something that I probably wouldn't ride that much.
In any case, I would have to say that my largest gripe about this particular frame is the whole slider setup/design.
1. When I got my frame it had a goopy weld on the inside area that prevented one side of the slider from being flush to the dropout area. Instead of filing down the frame, I simply dremilled out a small track in the slider plate. I figured it would be cheaper for me to replace the plate than the frame. This worked quite well. Had I not been so frickn stoked to get the bike together and ride, I should have returned the frame. However, the bike has almost completely built by the time I found this problem.
2. There is no tensioner system for the sliders. This makes things a little bit more of a PITA to get the wheel centered in the frame intially.
3. The hooded design of the dropouts/slider mounts on the frame make it impossible to get any sort of washer under the bolt to help prevent scaring up the frame.
4. Because it comes with no washers (I highly suggest you buy some before installing your wheel and tightening things down) tightening up the slider mounting bolts basically put dents into the softer aluminum. The problem here is that it creates indentations that the bolts simply want to migrate back to if/when the wheel slips (because there are no tensioners you can't really prevent this unless you crank down the tension on the mounting bolts, thus making the scaring worse) Which of course is what happened to me. Not that I really cranked on them mind you but we are dealing with aluminum here so there is a fine line. I will elaborate on this a little more shortly.
So other than that, I don't have alot of complaints about the frame. I went into it knowing that it was an inexpensive option for me. Unfortunately, alot of my parts are worth more than my frame at this point and I guess it is time to start looking into something a little nicer. The downside to this is that I have become quite picky about what I am looking for and what I feel works for me. I don't want to settle on something that simply works. I want something that does what I want it to, is lighter, designed better (paragon sliders), cleaner welds, no extra cable guides...Pretty much, that leaves custom! But I don't custom funding so that is just going to have to wait or I will have to settle on something else. That being said, I think a Jabber might be in the picture but I won't be doing anything until the spring.
Ok back to the slider issue. As noted above, the bolts put dents in the metal. By crushing the metal with the bolt it basically caused the metal to swell around the screw. This became apparent when I tried to tension the chain last week. I could see that there was still room in the slider to pull the wheel back but it wouldn't move. I pulled the bolts out and saw that the slot had been transformed if you will. I ended up having to buy a small set of files. I took one of the small files and filed down each slot in the sliders (6 all together) to open the slots back up to their original size. This allowed the bolts to slide easily from one end of the slider to the other w/ no hang ups.
The only issue remaining is the areas where the bolts dug into the frame. I have found some washers at my local hardware super store that fit into the hooded dropouts but they are the same size as the bolt head. What is needed is a washer that is the same size as the hooded area with a slot in them. This would provide a steel reiforced area for the bolt to tighten onto without further damage to the frame. Now here is the challenge. Go find a washer like that! I have looked all over the place for the past couple of months and found nothing. McMaster-Carr had/has nothing of the sort. The only thing I can think of is trying to get a thing piece of sheet metal and making my own somehow. But I just don't think it will be worth the amount of work it will take. I mean it will probably take me a good hour to just make the first one (prototype) and then I'm sure things would speed up a bit. But the bottom line is that I will need 6 of them!
I spoke with Bike Direct via email a month or so about this and they did offer for me to send them back my frame so they could take a look. Realistically, there really isn't anything they can do. I mean this is not a defect in the frame. It is a design issue and the minute you tighten up your bolts you will have created these dents in the frame. It is now a User issue imo. Trust me, I would love to swap it out but the reality is that I will have the same problem on the next one. The desin has not changed so the problem is still there.
So there you have it. The bike is still in working order though I don't have as much tension on my chain as I would like. It has not created a problem just yet in that I have not thrown my chain. I have heard it pop a couple of times mind you which means it was close though. That being the case, I guess the search is on for my next frame.
I'm sure alot of you probably have not experienced this. For you, I highly recommend that you at least find some washers to slip under the stock mounting bolts as this will help a bit. I will at least prevent the bolt from digging into the frame as you tighten them. I'm not saying that it will prevent any crushing or deforming of the slots but at least you won't be drilling into it.