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Fly Team Frame Kit, not good!!!

8K views 97 replies 13 participants last post by  RajunCajun44 
#1 ·
So I received my eagerly awaited Fly Team frame kit today and was sadly disappointed. The bottom bracket shell facing is not even close to square on the non-drive side, and the drive side isn't great either. Is this what I should expect when buying a Motobecane Frame? This was extremely disappointing as I have spent $1,300 on parts to build this bike. Please tell me that I have not wasted my time in turning to Motobecane. Was the deal just too good to be true and that this is the kind of quality I can expect. I know the price is amazing but a bottom bracket that isn't square will just destroy external bearings in rapid form. I am attaching a picture to show what I could see with my naked eye, that's how bad the bottom bracket shell is.
Metal Composite material Aluminium Cylinder Steel
 
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#2 ·
Their standard response would be that all bottom bracket shells are not machined by the manufacturer and need faced by the bikeshop to ensure proper installation of the bottom bracket bearings. BLA BLA BLA. I didn't face my gravity frame with an external bearing deore crank, but it's deore. A little bit of slop in deore won't really mess it up. XT on the other hand, I'd get it faced.

Unfortunately, I doubt BD will do much to compensate unless the shell and threads are machined incorrectly. If you can find any reference to a maximum length of bottom bracket shell that can be machined off a titanium bike before the threads are affected, you might be able to use that. I don't know what can and cannot be done with titanium as far as facing and threading a bottom bracket shell. I know it's tough stuff to machine, and that might be a problem when trying to face it.
 
#3 ·
Their standard response would be that all bottom bracket shells are not machined by the manufacturer and need faced by the bikeshop to ensure proper installation of the bottom bracket bearings. BLA BLA BLA. I didn't face my gravity frame with an external bearing deore crank, but it's deore. A little bit of slop in deore won't really mess it up. XT on the other hand, I'd get it faced.

Unfortunately, I doubt BD will do much to compensate unless the shell and threads are machined incorrectly. If you can find any reference to a maximum length of bottom bracket shell that can be machined off a titanium bike before the threads are affected, you might be able to use that. I don't know what can and cannot be done with titanium as far as facing and threading a bottom bracket shell. I know it's tough stuff to machine, and that might be a problem when trying to face it.
So to add to the issue, I tried to thread the non-drive BB bearing cup and it went about a third of the way and came to a halt. I can't turn it at all with my hands. This should not be the case, those bearing cups should thread all the way to the face by hand and then get tightened to the torque spec. My $127 11 year old Litech Magnesium frame had no issue at all when I upgraded it to an XT HollowTech II crank about a month ago. I was able to thread the cups right in then torque them. Furthermore this bottom bracket shell is easily the worst looking one I have ever seen. The facing is not even close to the same thickness all the way around. Also looks like the threads start right at the edge of the shell, instead of slightly recessed. I will take more pictures and post them. I have never seen a bottom bracket that looks this bad. Even my 2004 Motobecane 700HT Aluminum frame looks way better than this one. Lastly I still havn't gotten a response from my e-mail to Bikes Direct. Interesting how they answered all my questions with 12 hours before I bought the bike and now it's been 20+ hours and no response. I'm not too worried yet but I'm going to be peeved if I don't here from them by tomorrow afternoon. I guess we will see how well they stand behind their 100% satisfaction guarantee.
 
#4 ·
So here are the more detailed photos with my better camera. The first 4 are of the non-drive side which is complete garbage. The 2 after that are the drive side which is somewhat okay, could probably be good enough with facing. In my opinion there is no hope for the non-drive side. You can clearly see the difference in thickness and how it seems the shell slopes into the inner housing. To me this is completely unacceptable, even on a bargain bike like Motobecane. If you want to be taken seriously as a quality option when comparing to other bike companies, then this can't be the product you turn out. Especially the bottom bracket which is an integral part of the bike.
Line Metal Tan Steel Material property
Brown Metal Amber Household hardware Steel
Line Metal Steel Parallel Composite material
Brown Metal Tan Maroon Steel
Line Metal Steel Pipe Composite material
Metal Pipe Steel Cylinder Circle
 
#5 ·
yea, that's pretty messed up. Looks like a bad machine job on the BB shell. Let BD know and send in pictures. They should take care of it. Possibly a new frame, possibly have you bring it to an LBS to see if they can face it and put in new threads. The second is questionable. Heard that titanium frames can chew up bottom bracket tools.
 
#6 ·
Whew, so I'm not crazy. I see a lot of folks on here sticking up for BD and from what I can tell they stand behind their products. So I have faith they will come through on this one. I thought exactly the same thing, bad machine job. Unfortunately, quality control allowed this one to go out the door. Hopefully the next one will be much better. I will post back when I find out what will be done.
 
#7 ·
I have several BD frames and the shells have been good. But bad machining can occur on any brand. As for the shell facing you can just get than faced at a LBS. But with the threads not allowing the BB to be hand tightened, I agree I would request a replacement.

I have several BD bikes but they are a discount bike company, soooooo....
 
#8 ·
There is no way I would have this shell faced. The dip alone in the shell would require too much material to be taken off to get it square. On top of that the threads start right at the edge and it would mess those up. Lastly the edge of the shell slopes in severely and I'm not sure there would be much edge left after facing it.

Of course Bikes Direct offered to pay for having it faced, even after I sent them all the pictures seen here. I can't even understand that to be honest. How about saying, yup that is a terrible machine job, we would be glad to exchange that for you. So I'm thinking this might be the quality I can expect. I will send this one back and get one more but if it's a dumpster fire like this one, that will be it for me and Motobecane. I will be onboard will all those that I argue with that say they are garbage and you get what you pay for. My 2004 Motobecane 700HT is of much higher quality than this frame, other than the fact it's aluminum. The Fly Team is beautiful other than the bottom bracket. I was totally bummed after inspecting the beautiful welds to see that the BB was a wreck. We will see what BD has to say about my response to them wanting me to have it faced. Of course I declined that offer and said I wanted another frame.
 
#10 ·
So far it's been nearly 2 days since I replied to their response and they haven't gotten back to me yet. I know it's the weekend but they certainly seem less responsive when there are issues rather then questions about purchasing. I asked a few questions before buying and received responses in less than 24 hours. Both emails about my problem have taken 2 days or more. So that's the latest as of right now.

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#15 ·
So here is the latest update. BD contacted me and said they inspected the remaining 19" frame they could send me and it is machined in the same fashion. So I am going to get a full refund. This is extremely disappointing and has me really doubting Motobecane's quality at this point. If their top of the line Titanium Frames come with that type of machine work, then that is a complete breakdown of quality control. For BD to even market those frames to customers is unacceptable. Makes me wonder what their complete bikes look like and what might be hidden by the installed parts. So at this point I can't in my right mind give Motobecane a positive endorsement of any type. For those that have received frames that are in good shape, I guess you're the lucky ones. I am totally bummed with this outcome and now have $1,300 worth of parts just sitting around. I guess I will learn from this and not order stuff until the frame has arrived and is inspected to be okay. I might have to look elsewhere to build what I have. I really wanted to go Titanium, hopefully I still can without braking the bank too much. Motobecane was supposed to solve this for me but it just wasn't to be I guess.
 
#16 ·
That definitely sucks. If I were BD, I'd have a few words with the manufacturer. A whole group of titanium frames with bad machining? that's not right.

If you're interested in CF, I noticed Nashbar is doing 25% off. Puts their 29er carbon frame under $500. Kind of a stupid BB configuration though. I'd end up using a PF to threaded adapter anyway. I just don't like the press fit as much.
 
#18 ·
Looks like a nice frame but it's head tube is a bit slack for my liking. I'm strictly a XC person, and this frame is more for AM use. I might just go all out and take a look at Litespeed. At least then I know I will get a quality product, albeit at a quality price tag. Sucks I will have to buy a new rear hub since the XT M756 hub isn't upgradable to 12x142. Plus I will have to spend a little to get one of those Praxis Works PF30 to BSA bottom bracket conversion kits. Lastly I will have to buy a fork too, so it will cost me an extra $1,500 compared to Motobecane. Wasn't hoping to go there but it appears you get what you pay for with Bikes Direct. If they actually stocked more stuff, I'm sure they could try to find a frame that would work for me. One of the things I dislike about them most is that they don't stock enough stuff. Who knows when they will get more frame sets that might be acceptable. I e-mailed them today to ask about that, so hopefully I will here back by tomorrow. If they know they will get some within the next month, I might consider holding out in hopes they will be of a better quality.
 
#19 ·
Might not be what you're looking for, but did you know about bikeisland? It's basically BD's scratch and dent stuff, or loose parts, including frames. The windsor CF frame with Reba fork for $600 (don't know what the front hub is). Coincidentally, they also have the titanium frames, and it might be worth a shot talking to them. I think they're run from separate shops, so the inventory on bikeisland sight might be different than the BD frameset with fork.
BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping
 
#20 ·
Might not be what you're looking for, but did you know about bikeisland? It's basically BD's scratch and dent stuff, or loose parts, including frames. The windsor CF frame with Reba fork for $600 (don't know what the front hub is). Coincidentally, they also have the titanium frames, and it might be worth a shot talking to them. I think they're run from separate shops, so the inventory on bikeisland sight might be different than the BD frameset with fork.
BikeIsland.com - Bicycle Parts, Accessories and Clothing at Affordable Prices with Free Shipping
Yeah, I have been to their site. I don't think they have anything in the size or setup I'm looking for. Plus I don't want something blemished, I pretty much had that in this frame that I received. It should be sent to Bikes Island as far as I'm concerned. That type of machine work has no place in the bike business, even on a price conscience option such as Motobecane. What's worse is in all the e-mail exchanges I have had with them, they have never come right out and said that the machine work was faulty and they would look into it. To me this shows a lack of concern in quality control. If it were my company, I would be apologizing profusely and letting the customer know I was looking into why these frame sets had such poor machining. I get the feeling they think what they sent me is acceptable and workable. I have to believe I'm not crazy and the pictures I posted speak volumes. I simply have never seen a bottom bracket machine job this terrible in my entire riding life. If others have received frame sets that look similar to mine, I would be interested in hearing about them.
 
#24 ·
I can assure you not all frames have this issue. I have a Boris and the BB shell is fine. I have switched the BB with no issues. My son's old Dawes from Bikes Direct was fine too amd I switched the BB and crank on that. Probably a production run issue with the Titanium frames.
 
#25 ·
Alloy bikes can easily have their BB shells face machined and re-threaded. The OP's frame was titanium, which is not something you want to machine without the proper tools. Bike shops can fix a messed up alloy frame, and if it's like that new, it's on BD (IMO).

And bobaX, you created some old threads a couple years ago about a moto you had bought, so you've already got experience with a BD bike. Was that BB messed up, or did you not have a need to take it apart?
 
#26 ·
Alloy bikes can easily have their BB shells face machined and re-threaded. The OP's frame was titanium, which is not something you want to machine without the proper tools. Bike shops can fix a messed up alloy frame, and if it's like that new, it's on BD (IMO).

And bobaX, you created some old threads a couple years ago about a moto you had bought, so you've already got experience with a BD bike. Was that BB messed up, or did you not have a need to take it apart?
So when I get my hal6 should I be removing parts to check the bottom bracket? Is this something that would normally be done by a bike shop if you hire them to assemble and set up a bike? I would be pretty bummed to find a poorly machined frame that causes things to wear out prematurely, especially since I'm dropping $2k on this thing! In addition, since I live in Hawaii shipping the frame back would be no cheap thing! Bd only charges $150 to ship it here but I would expect return shipping to be $300 or more.. BD Should send robn30 a new, perfectly machined Ti frame. They are blowing their rep right now big time!
 
#27 ·
You wouldn't ship it back. Local LBS can fix it. With the right tool, doesn't take long. The need to face the BB is dependent on the BB condition. My bike originally came with square taper BB, but when I swapped up to some external bearings, I didn't face it. I could have, and probably should have, but I didn't.
 
#30 ·
I won't say if you should buy it, but I will say the BD bike will come to your house the same way an LBS bike will come to their shop. LBS's have the tools and experience to go through all the bearings, pivot points, facing components, etc.. when assembling the bike. This is one of the things you're paying for when you get a bike from an LBS. The full blown crazy level of detail required for proper assembly and preparation of a bike. Expensive bikes require greater level of assembly detail than a cheap bike, which is one reason why they cost so much more. An LBS should almost completely disassemble one of these bikes to make sure it's all put together properly, because there's more to it that can go wrong. Proper use of grease, loctite, torque settings, cable routing, derailleur hanger alignment, and as the main focus of this thread, proper machine work at the factory.

It's up to you to decide if you need that level of detail or not. Personally, if you like to wrench, you'll like doing all that stuff yourself. Once you get a basic tool kit, you can do most of the assembly the LBS can do (with some trial and error along the way) except the facing and specialty tools. These are rare or one time use tools, so your better off paying an LBS to do this stuff. Facing a BB shell, leveling brake mounts, install/remove press fit bearings.

If something is machined wrong, that's a different issue. Warranty time. Even an LBS would call up the manufacturer and get a replacement under warranty.
 
#33 ·
What watts888 said is 100% true. Big money machines will have perfect machining right out of the box, not sure it justifies the massive prices of these bikes, but nice machine work is paramount when paying that much cash. Motobecane uses a well known manufacturer (Kenesis) for their alloy frames, or at least they used to. I would expect the quality control on those frames should be pretty high. The new HAL might be a Kenesis product, not sure. Their Titanium on the other hand is done through ORA Engineering, who also is supposed to be pretty good. Not sure what the heck is going on with the 2015 Fly Team frame that they sent me. Furthermore to tell me the replacement they had available was machined the same, is completely unsatisfactory. I had 2 guys that I work with that are both savvy with metal work look at the pictures in this thread, and they both immediately sighted the problems with what I showed them. Neither one is an avid mountain biker, but yet they both said, that's terrible machine work. Not what should be expected from the top of the line Titanium Frame offered by BD and Motobecane.
 
#32 ·
I would expect a $4000 bike to have it's BB faced, because its $$$$. (although I'd expect a titanium frame to be faced too, and we all know how that went) I would not expect the frame of a $1000 bike to come into the LBS with the bottom bracket faced. The LBS would check it and if it needs faced, they'd face it. Otherwise, they'd keep on truckin.
 
#36 ·
I called Bikesdirect yesterday and they said they had 6 of the size Large frame/fork combo's left. I went ahead and ordered one hoping mine comes with the bottom bracket shell properly tapped and faced. If not I will send it back but based on many good reviews I am hoping it comes ready to go.
 
#37 ·
Well that is interesting. I guess they just looked at the one they were going to send me and said it was machined the same. Pretty messed up that they didn't look at all of their inventory to get me a frame that was good. Actually makes me a little mad, plus I've been waiting 4 days for them to respond to the message I sent them after they told me the replacement frame was also machined poorly, or as they said machined the same. Not sure they actually agree that the machine job is bad or not, at least they haven't acknowledged that to me. If you don't mind can you share which number you called and how your experience was talking to them directly. Thanks for the input though. Hopefully they are not counting the 2 frames they had for me as part of the 6.
 
#47 ·
Yeah, I think I'm going to move on from Motobecane and turn to Dean or Lynskey for my Titanium frame needs. Gonna cost me a bit more but I think I will get a higher quality product from folks that truly care about quality. I think Motobecane is good for beginners that might not know much about bikes, but for those of us who have been at it for quite some time, they aren't going to cut it. Especially if their top offering doesn't even maintain quality control for one of the most important parts of the bike. Furthermore BD's handling of the situation with no explanation of why those frames are faulty, is bothersome. To me they should have communicated that they were looking into the issue and were taking it seriously. Instead their e-mail responses were short and never gave me any reason to believe they agreed with my assessment of the machine job. The only positive is they are refunding my payment in full as soon as I get the fork and headset in the mail. They have also paid the fee for return shipping, which they should do anyway. Other than that, I am no longer impressed with the Motobecane product as I once was. I feel at this point you get what you pay for, even though the big name companies way over charge for what you get. At least you do get a good quality frame to work with, albeit at a premium price point. I think if folks pulled apart a lot of the BD bikes, they would find flaws that most of us experienced riders would find unacceptable from a quality standpoint. I'm sure some of their stuff is okay, but I have serious doubts about their quality control at this point. I hope this was just a bad run of frames, but the way BD handled it doesn't give me a good feeling about working with them in the future. I would be interested to hear why they cancelled Ranger Pride's order, I'm sure their e-mail gave no indication of why, which is what would bother me. I guess we will see how it all turns out.
 
#48 ·
With name brands, the mark up is usually you paying for their marketing expenses (getting products reviewed by the media, PR events, advertisement, etc). I'd be willing to bet 25%+ of the price of the bike is spent on marketing.

BD doesn't do any of those activities, and being direct to consumer, that's why they're cheaper.
 
#49 ·
With name brands, the mark up is usually you paying for their marketing expenses (getting products reviewed by the media, PR events, advertisement, etc). I'd be willing to bet 25%+ of the price of the bike is spent on marketing.

BD doesn't do any of those activities, and being direct to consumer, that's why they're cheaper.
That's true but I have never in my life had a bike with a poorly machined bottom bracket such as this. I've owned numerous Specialized, Raleigh, and Trek bikes and none have ever let me down when it comes to quality. Some of those bikes, if not all, were probably built in an Asian plant, but quality was still high. I also purchased a Litech Magnesium frame back in 2005 and paid $150 shipped, and its quality was superb. All these bikes were setup with square taper bottom brackets, yet their shell faces were excellent, even though that isn't totally required for square taper setups. So for Bikes Direct to tell me that both frames they could have sent me were badly machined, that's a break down of quality control. Could be another reason their products are so much cheaper. At least it adds to the fact. It wasn't so much the fact the frame was faulty, it's the way they handled the situation and their lack of communication. Glad they are refunding me but I don't buy stuff from companies just so I can return it. I would have rather stuck with them and had them care more about getting me a quality frame. They had no desire to make me a happy customer and assure me they would look into the matter and get me taken care of. That is ultimately what has turned me away from them and will have me placing an order for a Lynskey here soon. I'm gonna be out about a $1,000 extra but I feel I will have a good quality bike to show for it. Frame is $1,250 and the fork will cost me $545 but it's a SID RCT3. So overall it will be a better product. Hopefully Bikes direct well get there frame situation sorted out and be able to provide decent stuff for folks.

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#50 ·
is it just a bad BB or is it the frame thats messed up? Sorry not too familiar with the components yet..

If its the threads on the actual BB and not the frame, I’d be concerned About BD letting a defective BB pass rather than questioning BD’s bike quality right?
 
#54 ·
This thread motivated me to remove my crankset and check out the BB on the 27.5 Ti Fantom I purchased from BD back in early March. I purchased the complete bike and it's worth noting it is not the Fly model. My BB is perfect. Photos are a little blurry but everything is centered and the facing is nice and flat. Bearings thread right in and out by hand. Guess I got lucky.



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#55 ·
Sure enough, that looks pretty darn good. So it proves they are capable of producing a quality product, which I didn't doubt they could. I think they got a bad batch of Fly Team's it seems. For me it's too late, since they didn't really want to explain the situation to me. I'm going to go with a Lynskey and spend some serious cash, although Lynskey's are pretty well priced especially for a frame built in the USA. Glad your frame looks excellent, wish mine would have and I would be on the trails already.
 
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