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  1. #1
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    New question here. Fantom Team or Fantom DS Pro Full Ssupension

    I have never posted here before, so please bear with me.

    I have purchased BD's Motos 2x before and have been pleased with the shipping, no broken parts, no problems of any kind. One FLY XC I replaced the cassette with 11X32 and the chain seemed too light duty for big guys. I have decided I trust BD at least as much as any normal mail order operation - don't need to get into any involved customer service calls anyway.

    I ride almost everyday - when not traveling on business, cross country and a lot of night riding on hard dry not too rocky SO CAL. Again I am trying to lose weight but heavy and not extremely aggressive about huge drops and jumps - I have to work the next morning.

    I have been looking at all types of Rear suspension because I hated the first one I bought in '01 - it bobed like crazy and was a very heavy Y type bike. I switched back to my S Works Hard Tail.

    Now I am partial to a Specialized Epic or some type of Yeti, Rocky Mountain or Zascar XC light style bike. I just cannot possibly justify spending $2500 - $5000 on a bike and still pay for college bills for my daughters! If I cant afford to buy a good XC DS bike I will settle for either lesser quality or just stick with Moto FLY XC hardtail.

    I have seen some rants about the customer service and about parts change and about damage in shipping - don't need more on any of that but thanks for watching out for us.

    I just want to know if you can your collective thoughts on the following regarding both DS Bikes - Fantom Team DS or Fantom DS Pro:

    1. Are the frames too heavy, too weak, too non aggressive for a fairly frequent but non racing xc overweight rider?
    2. Some say it's a quad pivot, some say single pivot, some rocker - anyway, is this type of suspension a good one? Will it bob when climbing more than epic lets say?
    3. I can buy either which would you prefer if money was real tight - the Fantom Team or Fantom DS?

    Thanks all in advance for your comments

  2. #2
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    I don't own either one, but here is my take.

    1. No one has ever compalined about the frame being heavy or weak. There have been a few Moto owners that have complained about their bikes on here, but none of them was a Fantom. It really is a frame that can be used for XC, Trail or AM depending on how you set it up. But keep in mind that the Team is set up just like the Fly. It is a XC racer with hollowpin chain, ultra thin tubes and tires, road cassette, carbon cranks (you can decide for yourself if this is good or bad), I am not opening that can of worms) and foam grips. So for all around trail riding you would most likely need to change some things.

    2. The name of the suspension design really is unimportant. Many bikes use this design and it is a simple and effective design. With today's platform shocks there should be very little bob, so don't worry too much about that.

    3. If you can afford it you should get the Team. The bike is an absolute bargain with the parts spec it has. Just put on some more aggresive tires, Kenda Nevegals would be my recommendation for an all around trail tire, and Kenda Karmas for a lightweight fast rolling tire, and maybe a 11-32 cassette if you like to ride steep hills.
    2012 On One Whippet 650b
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  3. #3
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    Thanks

    Very helpful - sometimes it helps just to get a second opinion

  4. #4
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    High End Moto DS - Why pay $3000 for Big Brands???

    For all of us Motobecane buyers or all of us Big Brand Buyers - It seems like these high end Full Suspension bikes are very good for being lighter (24 lbs), have better components (XTR) for the most part, their frames are 7005 alum, so not as good as carbon I guess but among the better quality frame materials. No one seems to feel this 4 bar or rocker suspension is worse than that of an EPIC or other big brands?

    That given why do people spend $3000+ for a Full Spension Big Brand? I am pretty certain there is a better reason than they are " brand snobs"

    Do the others have better suspensions? Are they better equiped? Is it the look?

    This is an honest question, I am racking my tight wad brain to figure why they spend more money for higher weight and down graded equipment in lighter XC bikes - I am not talking about Downhill or Full Mountain - Just XC!!!




    Quote Originally Posted by ljsmith
    I don't own either one, but here is my take.

    1. No one has ever compalined about the frame being heavy or weak. There have been a few Moto owners that have complained about their bikes on here, but none of them was a Fantom. It really is a frame that can be used for XC, Trail or AM depending on how you set it up. But keep in mind that the Team is set up just like the Fly. It is a XC racer with hollowpin chain, ultra thin tubes and tires, road cassette, carbon cranks (you can decide for yourself if this is good or bad), I am not opening that can of worms) and foam grips. So for all around trail riding you would most likely need to change some things.

    2. The name of the suspension design really is unimportant. Many bikes use this design and it is a simple and effective design. With today's platform shocks there should be very little bob, so don't worry too much about that.

    3. If you can afford it you should get the Team. The bike is an absolute bargain with the parts spec it has. Just put on some more aggresive tires, Kenda Nevegals would be my recommendation for an all around trail tire, and Kenda Karmas for a lightweight fast rolling tire, and maybe a 11-32 cassette if you like to ride steep hills.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikepej
    This is an honest question, I am racking my tight wad brain to figure why they spend more money for higher weight and down graded equipment in lighter XC bikes - I am not talking about Downhill or Full Mountain - Just XC!!!
    There are a few reasons

    1. The brand name. Not only does the brand name earn you respect at the trail head, but it also makes you feel that you are getting superior quality. Many people are ignorant of the fact that most bike frames all are built in the same factories, so quality differences are minimal. I will say though that a big name like Trek will get you a more user friendly warranty. With Motobecause you have to send your entire bike to Texas, at your expense, for warranty claims. Your bike could be gone quite a while, and they may not even warranty it which means you paid all that shipping for nothing. With a Trek or others you can just take it to a dealer and they inspect it. Also Trek is more likely to warranty damage that was caused by the rider than is Motobecane.

    2. Motobecanes look old. Mainly because they are using the same frame designs from years ago. The frames are not very fancy, no hydroformed tubes or fancy paint schemes and graphics. This has absolutely no affect on how the bike rides, but it is important to many people.

    3. A more expensive bike means more bragging rights. If you are trying to impress people with your expensive bike a Motobecane will not cut it. Try taking your Motobecane to a bike store, they will act like it is the biggest piece of junk ever because they see it as a "cheap" bike.

    So other than the warranty issues, it really comes down to wanting to impress people with your fancy, expensive bike.
    2012 On One Whippet 650b
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  6. #6
    Bushwacker
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    ^That's a pretty sad look at the narcissistic side of mountain biking but true unfortunately. If you like your ride, that's all that matters. I've notice even on the Moto thread the "mine is better than yours" mentality has been seeping in lately. We need to all support each other. It's all about having fun IMO.
    When I'm not windsurfing, I'm mountain biking

  7. #7
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    The level of scorn is about 10x worse for motobecane road bikes. Just do a search over on bikeforums if you'd like to see.

  8. #8
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    Moto Road Bikes

    Good point on the scorn from road weenies - the difference is there arent all the "intangables" on a road bike like the suspension, the performance over different terrain, strength etc.... I love to pull out my cheap Performance Carbon Fuji in front of road weenie snobs... because I know it won't fail and I feel confident in the equipment.

    Just a quick story - I bought my 22 yr old Triathalete daughter a $799 road bike --- you couldnt buy for $1500 in a local She smoked women on $5000 bikes all day long. Sorta like the skiiers you talk to for months with all the right expensive equipment who snoplow down the hill - after all the talking!

    I am just trying to make sure I can have the same confidence in the MOTO DS MTB?

  9. #9
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    mtnbikepej,

    I just bought a Fantom Elite DS, the one that's on sale for $999. I did a lot of research before making this decision and just couldn't justify going with something else. I did have extra confidence in Bikes Direct because I bought one of their high end road bikes a few years ago and it's been bulletproof. On the Elite DS, the shock alone (RS Revelation 409) sells for $450 to $600.

    I haven't had it long but have probably already put 500 miles on it in a variety of conditions. I'm 6'4", 210lbs. and while there is a little pedal bob when crunching up hill, it's not bad. The front shock is fully adjustable to meet different conditions and rider preferences.

    I hope that helps...

  10. #10
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    That's a great bike

    Yes that helps a lot - I thought of that one too...

  11. #11
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    I just bought a fantom frame and transferred the components from a Giant NRS - my XC racer. THe frame is about a pound heavier than the NRS but worth it IMHO. I have about 1" more travel, better quality bearing pivots, more tire clearance etc. You will take another 1lb hit by going to a longer travel AM fork (I assume you have 80mm front fork), but again worth it for the rock gardens of SOCAL.

    I really feel that the fantom was a huge upgrade over the giant. I love XC - long burning ascents and fast riding. I have not once felt that the fantom was too slow! THe frame is efficient, bobbing is not a problem. Im an effiency snob coming from an FSR/NRS 4 bar design and I feel that the fantom is on par with these designs. I feel that my riding position is more comfortable and better suited for technical descents. Im probably just as fast climbing and way faster descending over technical.

    I would recommend their mid range $1500 bike. Less carbon and lightweight components to break on the rocks. The $1900 bike would be the way to go on the east coast, but I couldnt imagine dumping that one into some boulders. Plus the $1900 bike has things like foam grips to save weight. Come on, you know youll be spending more $$ on new grips etc. SOmething you can actually ride with.

    BTW, my giant weighed 28lbs and my fantom build is 30lbs. I know I could save weight by dumping my wheels for lighter weight ones or eliminating my cane creek bar ends - but whats the point? I do like to ride at mammoth once in a while. I sacrificied 2 lbs for a sturdier frame with 1" more travel and front shock with 2" more travel. Absolutely worth the weight penalty that I notice even riding around calaveras.

  12. #12
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    Great points - thank you very much!

  13. #13
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    Hi:
    Are there any Motobecane "Fantom DS trail" LARGE size owners in the Los Angeles area??
    Please Email me at Geovideo@aol.com

  14. #14
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    Laqrge Size....Moto I attached my post at another thread on Moto

    #3
    mtnbikepej
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    Posts: 15 Choices Fantom Team or DS

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I thought about the same choices, and selected the Team - got it 2 weeks ago and am happy I did for the following reasons:
    1. better front and rear suspension (for xc altho less travel)
    2. Better - crank all carbon some people say they are afraid of carbon here but in mtbr forum they didnt report much failure.
    3. Better frame... better material I suspect
    4. Lower weight due to over all higher end package

    I did have to change several things and they were pricey, due to wanting to make the team more durable and ridable (tires and saddle and cassette would not need to be replaced for DS):
    I replaced chain and cassette because it was an 11X28 I needed a 32 on grannie. I replaced sky saddle with a wtb light saddle with more comfort. I replaced grips and bars with a carbon rizer since it wasnt wide enough for good control for me. I replaced the tires with 2.0 pythons tubeless ready plus stans kit - the tires are wayyy tooo light duty for real riding on rocky single track in so calif.

    Let me know if this helps?

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    22 Hours Ago #4
    RobDMB
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    Posts: 16 Thanks for the response. So if I am looking to use this on the mountain and dont want to have to immediately replace parts it may actually be wise just to stick with the Fantom Comp DS? How do you find the suspension to be. Is there much pedal bob?

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    9 Hours Ago #5
    mtnbikepej
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    Posts: 15 Choices Fantom Team or DS

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well I also an 240 and 6 ft, I used the Moto Fantom Fly and used to have a very light Specialized race hard tail. I tried a full suspension in 2001 and switched back to hard tails. I set up the new Fantom team for my high weight (135 psi in preload I think?). When climbing I am still bobbing, and I can feel the bobbing a little on the flats, I suppose we heavy guys are used to using our weight more disproportionately on the downstroke and not circle pedaling like we are supposed to. Anyway bottom line here, I lock out the rear on long grinds and its great, on the up and down hills while fully suspended I have thebobing a bit but its very much better going over rock gardens and ruts and drop offs, I stay up with my riding group.

    Yes I did consider heavily getting the ds alone - almost did it. The cassette was like 69 for XT and 30 for HG chain 60 for the saddle 80 for carbon bars, 20 for grips tires plus stans were 100. All those except the grips are un necessary on the DS. Quite a few people dont need to change out of the 11x28 cassette - its like 2nd or 3rd largest gear in your current cassette, so when people are around me with single speed or maybe to rings on front - maybe i can use a 28. The tires were too light duty - very bad , the bars are almost OK - i changed them before the bike came thinking they were small like the fly xc, but they were longer - still not as long as i like. Saddle is ultra lite but some people like rock hard and light.

  15. #15
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    how tall are you guys and how did the frame size work out?

  16. #16
    Lucky Flyer
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    Overhead is huge. Bikes direct is a lean and mean operation. That's the #1 reason they are cheap. If you want the service of a bike shop with professional employees you will pay for it. Service not sticker is what you pay for at your LBS.

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