Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 63
  1. #1
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686

    Read this if you bb bearings have failed

    So I about 3 months ago, I replaced my BB pivot bearings because of failure. Today I took my frame apart to re-grease the contact points, and just clean the bike up. When I removed the BB pivot, the front two bearings had failed to the point of coming apart(again). Both time this has happened (both in less then a year) it was the front(closest to the BB). Since this is obviously a common problem, I was wondering if it was the front bearings that failed for everyone else as well? Of course, the enduro max bearings unavailable everywhere(didnt seem to make much of a difference for me anyway), so Im stuck with getting standard bearings of not riding. So I choose standard bearings this time.

    Anyway, if people can chime in with what bearings (front or back) failed for them, and any fixes they have found that helped(other then enduro max bearings), I would appreciate it.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Iridethedirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    576
    Hey there mullen, it seems us freedrive owners who actually ride hard will forever be cursed with this problem.
    here ya go. enduromax bearings.


    http://www.ride-this.com/index.php/a...ource=googleps

    and here

    http://www.airbomb.com/ItemMatrix.as...mpaign=Froogle

    I don't recall which bearings failed first on my frame that well. The next set are due to be installed sometime this spring... i remember having to remove the outer race with great difficulty as it had separated from the inner race and ball bearings spilled out as soon as i backed the bolts out. the inner race had actually fractured down the center splitting into 2 separate rings... this happened on the swing arm drive side, and BB non-drive side if i remember correctly.

    So, options to figure out a better solution...

    There are ceramic all ball internal bearing options, however, some of them cost in excess of 20 dollars a piece, 80 bucks for an experimental bearing useage is a bit excessive.
    There are older bikes that use a metal on metal bushing. I've concidered looking into materials that could be machined into a proper bushing for the BB pivot. If this becomes something i begin actually looking to fabricate, I'll let you know, and see if you want a set.

    beyond a bushing, rather than a bearing, i do not have the slightest clue what we can do to rectify the undersized bearing issue, except stock up, and get used to rebuilding your pivots on a 3 month schedual. I find large helpings of grease help keep things quiet for a little longer. I also added nylon washers to the BB pivot. i inserted one in between the BB link and the spacer to take up the slack, and not compress the tabs on the frame to eliminate the slack. I added the nylon washers on the outside of the bearings as well. I hope that reducing the metal to metal contact will help quiet the link down. so far its worked. we will see for how long.

  3. #3
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Those bearing are not in stock. If you click add to cart, it says they are unavailable. I have been talking to mongoose about a warranty claim. They gave me a new BB linkage I dont see how that will help anything but whatever, I will toss it on and give it a try.

    I spent two hours getting the cage out of the BB side. so I guess it doesnt matter if its front or back.

  4. #4
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    After talking to Mongoose more, They claim the improper torque on the bolts can cause premature failure. To tight puts extra stress on the inner cage and to little allows slight play that tears them apart. Just a light snug (105 in-lbs) is what is needed. I was using the correct torque specs, but they claim a strong lock tite must be used to keep the bolts from coming loose from use. I Think this is where I have my problem. We will see how long the non enduro max bearings I put in today last with the info given.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Iridethedirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    576
    When I clicked add to cart it said they would ship out to me in 5 to 7 days. They normally have to order them from a supplier, so it shows as "available" rather than "in stock"
    You could also check with your LBS to see if they can order them.

    Improper torque makes sense. Perfect sense. However, when the BB link mounting tabs allow for about 1 mm of play, it changes things. I am going to have to machine custom spacers, use red loctite, and not overtighten.... I am not the biggest fan of mongoose right now. Did you call and talk to a tech specialist?

  6. #6
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Quote Originally Posted by Iridethedirt
    When I clicked add to cart it said they would ship out to me in 5 to 7 days. They normally have to order them from a supplier, so it shows as "available" rather than "in stock"
    You could also check with your LBS to see if they can order them.

    Improper torque makes sense. Perfect sense. However, when the BB link mounting tabs allow for about 1 mm of play, it changes things. I am going to have to machine custom spacers, use red loctite, and not overtighten.... I am not the biggest fan of mongoose right now. Did you call and talk to a tech specialist?
    I was emailing back and forth with a tech guy. Im not a fan of mongoose right now either. If my bearings start lasting longer this time, I might start to sway back slightly, but my next bike wont be a Mongoose. I got it all back together, so only time will tell. Anymore, I would be happy with only rebuilding twice a year.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Iridethedirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    576
    PM me the email address if you dont mind... most of my attempts to contact mongoose end in frustration, not a response!

    My take on owning this bike is, it will be my ride for another couple seasons most likely, while i save up, and decide what frame i want next. The Khyber fell into my lap, and was purchased for the cheap price of only 250 with rear shock (Xfusion 02RL Dual Chamber) and headset. it was a massive upgrade from my target frame (upgraded heavily, almost nothing left stock) i was riding just to be back out there on the trails, as i was returning from a long pause on the sport, and was impatient to wait for a good deal on a used bike. so, here i am, with a mongoose khyber that rides really nicely, if not a little on the sluggish side compared to a couple other bikes I've ridden, even an 05 spec. enduro felt like it had far less pedal resistance.
    I honestly enjoy maintaining my bike, and learning what noises come from where and how to eliminate them. what i dont enjoy is that i cannot easily buy replacement wear and tear components. that the spacing on the BB link tabs is too wide, so the only way to eliminate play is to overtighten the bolts. like i mentioned before, i have added a nylon washer to eliminate the need to compress/bend the BB link tabs inward.

    I would not run anything but enduromax bearings, and i think you'd be wise to obtain some asap, and check your BB link frequently, when they begin to index, replace them, the next step is failure, and prying the outer race from the frame, risking damaging the frame in the process.

    what method do you use to knock out, and press in your new bearings? do you have a press??
    I end up going ghetto and using light tapping on a socket w/extension to press out, and press in the new bearings. its ghetto, but works ok as long as you're super careful.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Iridethedirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    576
    http://www.treefortbikes.com/product...Cartridge.html

    in stock, not enduomax, but they do claim its an ABI bearing... might be worth calling about/looking into.

  9. #9
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Those bearing from tree fort are the ones I just purchased. We will see how long they last.

    The "emailing" I was doing with mongoose was on facebook. They respond very quickly on facebook and pretty much never respond any other way.

    As for removing and installing my bearings, I use a 8mm allen wrench and a hammer to tap them out. I then use a dremel tool with a buffing wheel to polish any imperfections out of the frame where the bearing seat. Then use the bolts to pull the bearings into place. I find it the easiest way to make sure they go in straight without putting extra stress on the frame.

  10. #10
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    If you send mongoose something on facebook. Send them something publicly to get there attention, Then send them a private message. Seems to work the best.

  11. #11
    {Believeland}
    Reputation: XCkiller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    277
    So after craking my ibex frame twice within a year, i decided to upgrade, hence purchasing a 09 teocali super. I ride pretty hard... usually taking the more technical trail if given the choice, i love all mountain and light freeride. Should i be at all concerned and is there anything i should check often or replace before things start going bad?
    ride fast.... live slow

  12. #12
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Quote Originally Posted by XCkiller
    So after craking my ibex frame twice within a year, i decided to upgrade, hence purchasing a 09 teocali super. I ride pretty hard... usually taking the more technical trail if given the choice, i love all mountain and light freeride. Should i be at all concerned and is there anything i should check often or replace before things start going bad?

    If you do your own maintenance, order some 688 bearings to have on hand, and make sure you have a torque wrench that measures inch pounds. When you hear noises that sounds like BB that is creaking, its time to replace them.

    Read this and follow it closely: http://www.mongoose.com/usa/usaeng/mtn/tech

    Lastly, As stated above by Iridethedirt, it seems like the spacers between the bearings and linkage piece are to small, causing the need to over tighten them. adding a washer or making new spacers (which I am working on) to take up the slack will probably help.

  13. #13
    {Believeland}
    Reputation: XCkiller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    277
    Ok awesome! thanks for the help mullen, i wil definitley look into getting some of those 688 bearings i am kinda regretting going with mongoose now
    ride fast.... live slow

  14. #14
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Quote Originally Posted by XCkiller
    Ok awesome! thanks for the help mullen, i wil definitley look into getting some of those 688 bearings i am kinda regretting going with mongoose now
    I like the way my mongoose feels, but the maintenance make me regret going with mongoose a few times a year.

  15. #15
    {Believeland}
    Reputation: XCkiller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    277
    yeah i too love how the bike rides, especially on climbs, do you think you could put some pictures up of the spacers and your set up when it is all said and done?
    ride fast.... live slow

  16. #16
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Quote Originally Posted by XCkiller
    yeah i too love how the bike rides, especially on climbs, do you think you could put some pictures up of the spacers and your set up when it is all said and done?
    I was just looking at your profile and saw that you live in cleveland, which is where I live as well. Right now my bike is being stored at Rays, So I haven't had my bike available to expierment. When I make them, I plan on making as many as I can to give out to a few people I know with the same problem. If I have enough, I will get you a set as well since you ride the same trails I do. Since its pretty much winter, My motivation to make them fairly low.

  17. #17
    {Believeland}
    Reputation: XCkiller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    277
    Ah no way!! I rode at rays all last season, and i'm hoping to ride at least a few times over. maybe we can meet up and i can give you a hand with this little project.
    ride fast.... live slow

  18. #18
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    My wife and I go to rays a few times a week. Let me know when your headed up there.

  19. #19
    {Believeland}
    Reputation: XCkiller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    277
    I'll do man
    ride fast.... live slow

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Iridethedirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    576
    Here's an update on my Khyber, cross post from the thread I started, but I figure, it can't hurt.
    So, as well all know, BB link tabs are too wide, or spacers are too skinny, or the design sucks because the tolerances required to keep this problem from happening are narrower than allowed by QC at mongoose. The solution is custom sized spacers it seems. I am willing, for now, to believe what mongoose told Mullen, that over tightening the bolts will cause the sideloading of a bearing not designed for that kind of stress, as well as allowing slop in the pivot, causing the bearings to fail.
    Mullen, you said you had custom sized spacers fabricated for you by your dad on a lathe, and you said you used some aluminum bar stock.
    Today i picked up a piece of 1/2 roundstock, 6061 T6 aluminum. I also asked a favor of some great guys at a shop i used to work for, and was told no problem at all, whenever i want.
    If you want me to make you some spacers, let me know what sizes you need, and I will gladly make some in whatever size you give me to the best of my ability. it should be said, that while this is not a difficult task, I've not run a lathe in over 3 years. i have 3 feet of material though, haha, so i should have plenty of "practice runs" available if i need them. also i will keep anything i don't produce that isnt perfect for me, because it might be just what someone else needs. I plan on holding on to them for a long long time, so even if you've found this thread through some exhaustive google search for your mongoose bottom bracket pivot link on your mongoose freedrive mountain bike, and its the year 2015, send me a private message, and maybe I'll have what you need.

    If anybody would like to take me up on making them some custom sized spacers, just send me a PM. Mullen, things still working well for you on your bike after you did as advised by mongoose, and also made spacers to eliminate slack? How long have then been running this way, and if you would do me the biggest favor, and remove your rear shock, and move the swingarm through its travel, and tell me how the bb link feels while it pivots... I'm very interested.
    as a side note, i plan to do a time lapse of my rebuilding process of the bike, as well as the lathe process of making the spacers.
    fun.
    updates soon.

  21. #21
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    I have been running mine with the custom spacers for about 3 months, mostly at Rays mtb. Before the custom spacers, My bearings would only last about a month before they would start making noise and indexing, so its a big improvemnet just to make it this far. I will take it apart in the spring and see how they bearing look/feel and let everyone know.

    When I first put it together with the new spacers and was able to actually torque the bolts properly(and not have play in the swing arm), the pivot felt very smooth. Much better then it did without the new spacers. Over torquing the pivot bolts to get rid of any play in the swing arm caused the BB link to get very tight, almost feeling lumpy when moving it by hand. This was all gone when I first assembled it. Hopefully its a permanent solution, but worst case scenario, its a band aid.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,711
    You can mostly likely buy the size shims you need from www.mcmaster.com. Their selection is staggering. It should be easier and faster than machining your own.

    EDIT: They have 8mm ID shims in 0.1mm, 0.2mm, 0.3 mm, 0.5 mm, and 1mm thicknesses.

  23. #23
    {Believeland}
    Reputation: XCkiller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    277
    thats a great resource considering i'm not sure if i have access to a shop right now. has anyone come up with an approximate thickness that the washer needs to be?
    mullen- any idea how those bearings are holding up for you, is there a noticeable difference between those and the stock bearings?
    ride fast.... live slow

  24. #24
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Quote Originally Posted by XCkiller
    thats a great resource considering i'm not sure if i have access to a shop right now. has anyone come up with an approximate thickness that the washer needs to be?
    mullen- any idea how those bearings are holding up for you, is there a noticeable difference between those and the stock bearings?
    It seems to be a case by case basis on thickness. Mine had no play in the swing arm, but about .5mm on each side on the rocker. The bearings are holding up ok for me so far.

    As far as bearings, if given a choice, I would still buy the enduro max bearings. They are going to be the strongest bearing you can get, and that's what you need in this situation. I would say the bearings I ended up with are equivalent to the stock bearings. They are acceptable if the enduro max bearings sell out again, But thats the only reason I would use them.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Iridethedirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    576
    I had .6 overall slop rear triangle/swingarm side, and .85mm overall on the BB side.

    What you'll want to do is measure and order the size/sizes that will allow you to use the least number of shims. hell, add them only on one side... that amount of torsion in the swingarm will be negligable. I just rebuild the entire rear end of my bike with enduromax bearings and Rock N Roll grease. the swingarm has never felt better.

    Also, XCkiller, measure what you need, use feeler gauges after loosening the BB pivot bolts, to determine the total overall slack you need to take up. let me know what that measurement is, i might have the spacers you need, i made lots of extras. so just let me know!

  26. #26
    {Believeland}
    Reputation: XCkiller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    277
    thanks you guys, i finally got my enduromax bearings in so now i just have to get my hands on the right size shims and a torque wrench and i should be golden
    ride fast.... live slow

  27. #27
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Quote Originally Posted by XCkiller
    thanks you guys, i finally got my enduromax bearings in so now i just have to get my hands on the right size shims and a torque wrench and i should be golden

    Let us know how it works out Dont forget the lock tite!

  28. #28
    {Believeland}
    Reputation: XCkiller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    277
    thanks man, just picked myself up some locktite and the torque wrench, but as it turns out my school wont let me use the CNC machine so now im not really sure what to do... i have no play in the pivot closer to the bb, and the back one has about 1mm if that. so im not really sure what to do. any suggestions?
    ride fast.... live slow

  29. #29
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Quote Originally Posted by XCkiller
    thanks man, just picked myself up some locktite and the torque wrench, but as it turns out my school wont let me use the CNC machine so now im not really sure what to do... i have no play in the pivot closer to the bb, and the back one has about 1mm if that. so im not really sure what to do. any suggestions?

    I would try the shims the bad mechanic suggested. They will be a pain to install, but should do the trick. I bet if you cover them in grease, they may stick to the pivot linkage making it easier to install them.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,711
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119
    I bet if you cover them in grease, they may stick to the pivot linkage making it easier to install them.
    That's how I've always done similar installs. A little, high viscosity grease works well enough. You can then use an allen key or screw driver through the bolt hole to push it into alignment.

  31. #31
    {Believeland}
    Reputation: XCkiller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    277
    so after checking mcmaster website i have just about found what i am looking for; a washer with a ID of .313" OD of .5" -both of which are accurate to what i have measured on the bike. but the thickness and material is what has me worried. Thickness varies from .001"-.016" so the only question is whether or not it matters that it can only come in stainless? if not then i should be set.
    ride fast.... live slow

  32. #32
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Quote Originally Posted by XCkiller
    so after checking mcmaster website i have just about found what i am looking for; a washer with a ID of .313" OD of .5" -both of which are accurate to what i have measured on the bike. but the thickness and material is what has me worried. Thickness varies from .001"-.016" so the only question is whether or not it matters that it can only come in stainless? if not then i should be set.

    If properly torqued, It shouldnt cause any damage being stainless.

    when on mcmaster web site, type in shims in the search. then click standard shims, then 8mm ID. The shims that come up will have a ID of 8mm and a OD of 14mm. If you put the shim against the BB link rather then the bearing, It wont matter that the OD is slightly bigger. You can then pick two shims that are .5mm and that should take up your 1mm of slack

  33. #33
    DIY all the way
    Reputation: Mr.Magura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,111
    Hmm, you guys should keep an eye out for the cause of the improvement.
    I will bet you 200 to 1 that any respectable sealed bearing (NSK, SKF, F-A-G, INA and so forth) will last just as long as the Enduro bearings in this application (and in just about any other application for that matter).
    The key here is proper mounting of the bearings, and avoiding loading them sideways. Shim them up, and any bearing of the above mentioned will survive for a long time.


    Magura

  34. #34
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura
    Hmm, you guys should keep an eye out for the cause of the improvement.
    I will bet you 200 to 1 that any respectable sealed bearing (NSK, SKF, F-A-G, INA and so forth) will last just as long as the Enduro bearings in this application (and in just about any other application for that matter).
    The key here is proper mounting of the bearings, and avoiding loading them sideways. Shim them up, and any bearing of the above mentioned will survive for a long time.


    Magura

    I would have to disagree. The stock 688 bearings are grossly undersized. The Enduro Max bearings use twice as many balls to disperse the load over a greater area.(and even those dont last as long as they should) The 668 bearing being under sized for the application is well known and was recently addressed by mongoose when they redesigned the freedrive frames(giving all freedrive frames the same bearing used in the Boot'r and Pinn'r frames).

  35. #35
    DIY all the way
    Reputation: Mr.Magura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,111
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119
    I would have to disagree. The stock 688 bearings are grossly undersized. The Enduro Max bearings use twice as many balls to disperse the load over a greater area.(and even those dont last as long as they should) The 668 bearing being under sized for the application is well known and was recently addressed by mongoose when they redesigned the freedrive frames(giving all freedrive frames the same bearing used in the Boot'r and Pinn'r frames).
    You are comparing apples to oranges

    A 688 bearing comes in several different types. The Enduro Max bearing, is simply a full complement 688, which is also made by many of the other manufacturers.
    AFAIK Enduro is just rebranding, and not a bearing manufacturer.

    Just add an "F" to the suffix, and you got a full complement 688 bearing.

    So yes, a full complement bearing is sure better suited for the purpose, but it would be just as good, if not better, from any other reputable bearing manufacturer, and most likely a lot cheaper.


    Magura

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,711
    Just because the trade number is the same, doesn't mean two bearings are equal. The numbers alone don't tell you anything about the actual quality of the bearing. I've held two bearings with the exact same numbers and one was complete crap, and even brand you you could feel it didn't roll the greatest, and the other one was tight and smooth. Just buying a 688 full compliment bearing don't mean you'll get a quality one, while buying an Enduro Max bearing does.

  37. #37
    DIY all the way
    Reputation: Mr.Magura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,111
    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Just because the trade number is the same, doesn't mean two bearings are equal. The numbers alone don't tell you anything about the actual quality of the bearing. I've held two bearings with the exact same numbers and one was complete crap, and even brand you you could feel it didn't roll the greatest, and the other one was tight and smooth. Just buying a 688 full compliment bearing don't mean you'll get a quality one, while buying an Enduro Max bearing does.
    That sure is true, but only if you look into buying no-name or the like.
    If you buy NSK, F-A-G, INA, or SKF, the quality is sure the best possible.

    I often wonder why some hold such strong opposition to things without a bunch of marketing hype, or not "made for bicycles".
    Bearings are a prime example of this.
    There is no chance that something used generally, that is of better quality, would end up only being used for sports or hobby.
    So if it was such a great quality, that it would be better than the best from the industry, they sure would be having a much larger market segment.

    The only place there is going to be a difference between a SKF and an Enduro bearing, is in your mind and your wallet.
    In your mind due to the marketing hype, and in your wallet, as the guys who owns the Enduro trade mark are laughing all the way to the bank.

    Can you explain this to me?


    Magura

  38. #38
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura
    You are comparing apples to oranges

    A 688 bearing comes in several different types. The Enduro Max bearing, is simply a full complement 688, which is also made by many of the other manufacturers.
    AFAIK Enduro is just rebranding, and not a bearing manufacturer.

    Just add an "F" to the suffix, and you got a full complement 688 bearing.

    So yes, a full complement bearing is sure better suited for the purpose, but it would be just as good, if not better, from any other reputable bearing manufacturer, and most likely a lot cheaper.


    Magura
    When I google it 688 with a F as a suffix, the only thing that comes up is a fully ceramic bearing that is ridiculously expensive. Enduro max bearings have 17 balls while every other 688 bearing I find has only 10. Im all for a cheaper option of a equivalent bearing. Do you have a link?

  39. #39
    DIY all the way
    Reputation: Mr.Magura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,111
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119
    When I google it 688 with a F as a suffix, the only thing that comes up is a fully ceramic bearing that is ridiculously expensive. Enduro max bearings have 17 balls while every other 688 bearing I find has only 10. Im all for a cheaper option of a equivalent bearing. Do you have a link?
    Where in the world are you situated?


    Magura

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,711
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura
    TCan you explain this to me?
    Easily - You're wrong.

    You have too much faith in the bearing manufacturers. There's nothing magical about them, and they all have their various grades of bearings available, and with various tolerances, and that's true with NSK, SFK, etc.. This isn't about "bicycle bearings" or "non-bicycle bearings", it's about high quality bearings, versus bearings of unknown quality.

    You also have the whole custom bearing thing, were you can call any of those manfuacturers and they'll makes bearings to your specifications, with higher grade components, different sizes, or upgraded seals. Speaking of seals, usually the common trade bearings you buy from those manufacturers will have simply single contact rubber seals. For most applications they're used in, they have no reason to make the seals any better than they need to be.

    So again, yes, there very much can be a difference, and I happily spend the money to ensure I'm getting high quality bearings with good seals. The price I pay for Enduro Max seals is low enough I've never bothered to try and find a cheaper source for high quality bearings.

  41. #41
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    I never felt like I was over paying for bearings anyway. You can get enduro max bearings for about 5 bucks each and standard bearings for around 3.50 each. I am more then happy to spend that extra buck fifty to know I am getting a higher quality bearing.

  42. #42
    DIY all the way
    Reputation: Mr.Magura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,111
    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    Easily - You're wrong.

    You have too much faith in the bearing manufacturers. There's nothing magical about them, and they all have their various grades of bearings available, and with various tolerances, and that's true with NSK, SFK, etc.. This isn't about "bicycle bearings" or "non-bicycle bearings", it's about high quality bearings, versus bearings of unknown quality.

    You also have the whole custom bearing thing, were you can call any of those manfuacturers and they'll makes bearings to your specifications, with higher grade components, different sizes, or upgraded seals. Speaking of seals, usually the common trade bearings you buy from those manufacturers will have simply single contact rubber seals. For most applications they're used in, they have no reason to make the seals any better than they need to be.

    So again, yes, there very much can be a difference, and I happily spend the money to ensure I'm getting high quality bearings with good seals. The price I pay for Enduro Max seals is low enough I've never bothered to try and find a cheaper source for high quality bearings.
    Try see if you can find any facts about those claims. If so, I would be very interested in seeing such data, as I work in engineering and could sure offer my clients a much better product in that case.

    Any of the bearing manufacturers I have mentioned, has data sheets and load diagrams. From what I can see at the Enduro website, they spend a lot of effort on marketing talk, and hardly any on real facts.
    All this is not a problem to measure, and even less of a problem to put in a data sheet.

    The talk about "huge" differences in bearings for bicycles, has absolutely no reason behind it, if we are comparing the top manufacturers, and today even the cheap Chinese bearings are up there high enough to not make any difference for a bicycle, it's just a bit of hit and miss till you find the right Chinese bearings.

    If Enduro had anything besides arm waving and marketing BS behind their claims, the easy solution would be to publish a data sheet, where it would be obvious for all of us, that their bearings are sooo much better.
    I failed to find a data sheet on their website, but maybe you can help me out

    Tolerances will have to be quite low, to have any influence on bearings for a bicycle. The tolerances of a bearing, are highly influenced by the tolerances of the seat and the axle.
    For bicycles very few components, if any at all, are sporting the correct tolerances, so already there the point (if there was one in the first place) has gone moot.
    Try for fun and measure a couple of different bearing seats in a rear suspension, and see if you can find any that are within the manufacturers tolerance. Most of them are pretty far off (and oval or triangular as well), and that seems to be the norm for any frame manufacturer.


    Besides that I (and anybody else for that matter) have good reason to have a lot of faith in the top bearing manufacturers, since they would be in serious trouble if the service life of their bearings was not up to the standard. That would be recognized real soon by the industrial sector, and they would loose their market share shortly after.


    Magura

  43. #43
    DIY all the way
    Reputation: Mr.Magura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,111
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119
    I never felt like I was over paying for bearings anyway. You can get enduro max bearings for about 5 bucks each and standard bearings for around 3.50 each. I am more then happy to spend that extra buck fifty to know I am getting a higher quality bearing.
    1.50$ is fine to pay for something of higher quality, trouble here is that the quality is not higher, but the cost is.
    This is exactly what I have been trying to explain a few times here on MTBR.

    I'd soo wish that some here would give it a shot, and actually try come up with some hard data that proves Enduro or any other brand, is superior to the industrial standard bearings.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all in for development of higher quality parts, that gives us whatever benefit, but it bothers me that companies like Enduro are making a re-run of the emperors new clothes.

    Magura

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,711
    First thing I ever do it pop the seals off bearings to ensure they have enough grease. The Enduro bearings are double lipped and already come packed with good grease. Most standard bearings I've used have seals with a single lip. Right there that's worth the extra cost to me. Additionally, Enduros already come packed with a high quality grease, saving me an extra time and step. I don't need spec sheets when I can see the difference with my own eyes, right in front of me.

    That said, you seem to have something against Enduro, arguing like you are about an extra $1, and looking down on anyone willing to pay that extortionist price. That's fine, buy whatever bearings you want, and I'll be happy knowing that, at worst, I've only wasted an extra couple of dollars. It's certainly not enough money to continue arguing with you considering it's seem very personal to you. You should probably get out and ride more.

  45. #45
    DIY all the way
    Reputation: Mr.Magura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    2,111
    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic
    First thing I ever do it pop the seals off bearings to ensure they have enough grease. The Enduro bearings are double lipped and already come packed with good grease. Most standard bearings I've used have seals with a single lip. Right there that's worth the extra cost to me. Additionally, Enduros already come packed with a high quality grease, saving me an extra time and step. I don't need spec sheets when I can see the difference with my own eyes, right in front of me.

    That said, you seem to have something against Enduro, arguing like you are about an extra $1, and looking down on anyone willing to pay that extortionist price. That's fine, buy whatever bearings you want, and I'll be happy knowing that, at worst, I've only wasted an extra couple of dollars. It's certainly not enough money to continue arguing with you considering it's seem very personal to you. You should probably get out and ride more.
    So how are your eyes able to tell the "high" quality grease in the Enduro bearings, from the "poor" quality grease in industrial bearings?

    How are two lips suddenly better than one? The cause of contamination of bearings, is usually corrosion which makes any number of lips leak.

    For me this has nothing to do with Enduro alone as a company, but rather the issue that marketing BS (whatever company it originates from) turns into truth, if only the respective marketing department spends enough cash on ads for people to hear and see it adequately often.

    Failing to find facts, does not mean that turning personal can replace fact



    Magura

  46. #46
    {Believeland}
    Reputation: XCkiller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    277
    So i got the washers in a few days ago (i.d. 8mm o.d. 14mm thickness .5mm x50) as well as some 320 and 400 grit sandpaper to smooth out any imperfections in the washers or frame. Turns out that the play was only about .2mm thick, so after much sanding it fit perfectly. The rest of the process went along smooth as can be. Took it to a shop today and got the torque specs set up and now its all good to go! on the test ride everything seemed to be working even better than before only time will tell of course.... but hopefully this will have done the trick. I have plenty of washers left over that i am willing to mail out if anyone is in need. just send me a pm.
    ride fast.... live slow

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    7,711
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura
    So how are your eyes able to tell the "high" quality grease in the Enduro bearings, from the "poor" quality grease in industrial bearings?

    How are two lips suddenly better than one? The cause of contamination of bearings, is usually corrosion which makes any number of lips leak.

    For me this has nothing to do with Enduro alone as a company, but rather the issue that marketing BS (whatever company it originates from) turns into truth, if only the respective marketing department spends enough cash on ads for people to hear and see it adequately often.

    Failing to find facts, does not mean that turning personal can replace fact
    Now, how did I miss this?

    So far every bearing, aside from the Enduro bearings, I've opened up had very little grease in it. Even if it was a high quality grease, there simply wasn't enough of it.

    On mountain bikes the main source of contamination is from the dirt and water getting into the bearing, not from corrosion inside the bearing. Remember, we're talking mountain bikes here. Seriously, you should know that . A double lip seal simply does a better job of keeping the dirt and water out.

    Bottom line, at worse, the Enduro bearings will be no worse than your precious NGK, etc. bearings, and the $1 premium I pay for them is well worth how easily I can get them, and the excellent customer service behind them. It's simply not worth my time and effort to save $1.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119
    I have been running mine with the custom spacers for about 3 months, mostly at Rays mtb. Before the custom spacers, My bearings would only last about a month before they would start making noise and indexing, so its a big improvemnet just to make it this far. I will take it apart in the spring and see how they bearing look/feel and let everyone know.

    When I first put it together with the new spacers and was able to actually torque the bolts properly(and not have play in the swing arm), the pivot felt very smooth. Much better then it did without the new spacers. Over torquing the pivot bolts to get rid of any play in the swing arm caused the BB link to get very tight, almost feeling lumpy when moving it by hand. This was all gone when I first assembled it. Hopefully its a permanent solution, but worst case scenario, its a band aid.
    Where exactly are the shims? Between the frame and BB link?

  49. #49
    What?
    Reputation: mullen119's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,686
    Quote Originally Posted by Boerg
    Where exactly are the shims? Between the frame and BB link?

    Yes. They go between the bearings and the BB linkage to keep the BB link from rubbing on the frame.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dave037's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    26

    bb bearing issue fixed in 2011?

    Im seriously considering buying a 2011 teocali super. I can't find many reviews on the new frame. Does anyone know if Mongoose fixed the bottom bracket bearing issues with the new 2011 frame? Also, what rims are on this bike? Cant find that anywhere either.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •